Automating the Master Caster - Another way to skin the cat

[HATCH]

I finally finished assembling the machine.

Based on the work listed in this thread -> http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=153579

I wanted to go one step further and make it totally automated.

My brother Robert (No_1) automated his using timers and hydraulics.
I wanted to use pneumatics and use a PLC.

That is the one done by No_1 (my brother).
The thread concerning that build is here -> http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=89909
This is the video of it running -> http://smg.beta.photobucket.com/user/DrugRunR/media/003.mp4.html

I can't afford to do hydraulic like No_1's setup as its very expensive compared to the Air setup and he uses 8 timing relays to control the MC

My intial setup is the exact same as wymanwinn's but what is going to be different is the controls. I am not doing a manual control. i want it to be automatic like NO_1's is.

I installed a micro-switch (limit switch) at the base under the handle.
Everything is based off of that switch.

Switch closed (input 1) -> WAIT 1 seconds -> start lead pour relay (output 1 for 5 sec) -> boolit dump (output 2 for 4 sec)

The entire cycle is about 11 seconds from start to finish. Thats about 655 boolits a hour. I have cast 225 grain 41 mags and 115 grain 9mms using the same program with the only adjustment being the lead pour POT.
Keep in mind that the lead pour adjustment doesn't affect the lead pour relay time. I use a one shot relay that is adjustable so regardless of how long the signal is sent to it, it will only close for the amount of time based on the pot.

There are 1 PLC, 2 solid state relays (SSR), 1 standard 2 pole relay (t92 style), 2 3-way air switches, 1 timing relay, 1 250K pot (to control lead pour), 2 DC powersupplies (not enough height for 1 big one), and various switches.

I will make a list of individual parts for anyone that is interested. Honestly anyone that owns a Master caster should at least automate the lead pour. It doesn't take a lot of parts and can be done in a couple hours tops.

Click the pics for high res

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/DrugRunR/th_2012-10-26132151.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/DrugRunR/2012-10-26132151.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/DrugRunR/th_2012-10-26132207.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/DrugRunR/2012-10-26132207.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/DrugRunR/th_2012-10-26132139.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/DrugRunR/2012-10-26132139.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/DrugRunR/th_2012-10-26132131.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/DrugRunR/2012-10-26132131.jpg)



Enough talking. Here is a video when I was casting 158 gran SWC 38s.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sTJ1mtmqQg

[HATCH]

Also I am willing to provide the PLC program for anyone that wants to set one up. (edit - latest version this is no longer a option)
My brother Ray and I wrote the program.
I have cast 115 grain 9mm's all the way to 250 grain 45 colts with the only change being the lead pour which is adjusted on the front of the control panel.

Magma list 15 seconds as the cycle time. As of this post the current cycle time is 10 seconds as I have made changes since I wrote the above post (using word a couple weeks ago). So it does 2 boolits every 10.5 seconds.
Ran it for over two hours last night

Basic wiring.

you need to hook 24vdc ground to terminal C0 terminal
Inputs

C1 = 24vdc (NEG)
X1 = Start switch
X2 = Stop Switch
X3 = Limit switch

Outputs

V1 = 24vdc (***)
Y1 = START LIGHT (OPTIONAL)
Y2 = STOP LIGHT (OPTIONAL)
Y3 = LEAD POUR TIMER (TERM 3 ON TIMER)
Y4 = CYCLE AIR SWITCH (***)


TIMER

1 = AIR SWITCH VALVE (NEG)
2 = 24VDC NEG
3 = PLC TERM Y3 + AIR SWITCH VALVE (***)
4 = LEAD POUR POT RESISTOR (250k OHM)
5 = LEAD POUR POT RESISTOR (250k OHM)



CYCLE AIR SWITCH
*** = PLC Y4
NEG = 24VDC (NEG)

LEAD POUR AIR SWITCH
*** = TIMER 3
NEG = TIMER 1

OPTION LEAD POUR SELECT SWITCH (ON-OFF-ON)
AUTO POSITION 1 = X3
COMMON = AIR SWITCH ***
MANUAL POSITION = TIMER 3

[wymanwinn]

now you've done it Hatch...LOL

ok, a parts list if you have time....i agree with the 10sec cycle...watching your video is exactly how i "manually" cycle my now "semi-automated" MC....

really, REALLY nice job....

wyman

[HATCH]

I am going to assume that you just want the parts you need to automate it. Not the entire setup including the PID.
PLC x 1
Air switches x 2
DC Power supply x 1
Solid state timer x 1
250 ohm pot x 1
knob for pot (I just reused the temp one off my master caster)
small limit switch


The heart of the automation process is the PLC. Automation Direct is who I used. -> http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Programmable_Controllers/CLICK_Series_PLCs_(Stackable_Micro_Brick)/PLC_Units/C0-00DR-D
You do not need battery backup as it will retain the programming without battery backup. Battery backup is if you want to retain counters if your program had them but its not needed for our application.

I use 2 air switches to control the pneumatics. [MAC PART # IS 35a-aaa-ddaa-1ba] I got them from Kele.com , you can purchase them elsewhere. My cost on them were $45 each (plus shipping). I used 24vdc switches because I needed 24vdc to run the PLC. Here is the catalog page -> http://www.kele.com/Catalog/16%20Pneumatics%20and%20Fittings/PDFs/35A%20Series%20Catalog%20Page.pdf

I used two power supplies because I have illuminated lights on my switches that are powered by 24vdc. You should be able to do it with one. -> http://www.kele.com/power-supplies/ps5r-series.aspx
The PS5R-B24 is the one I would get. My cost on it is around $42.00

For lead pour you will need a timing relay. I used a Artisan 4300a-3-1. I got it from Allied Electronics. Cost was $35.00 -> http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?sku=70089149
You will also need a variable resister. 250K ohm is what I used. -> http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=70153330

You will also need a main power switch (basic on/off) and 2 normally open push buttons for start/stop
I also forgot you need a small limit switch. I will snap a picture later and add it to the thread.

I figure you could automate your setup (if its already setup for pneumatic) for under $300.
I guess I have about $1800 tied up in my automated Master Caster. This includes the cost of the machine (with 1 mold) and then all the parts to automate it.


wymanwinn because you helped me with your post and with PM information, I am willing to build one If you provide the PLC itself, I will provide all the other parts and build it for you. You basically would just have to hook up the air lines and plug the power in. Also you would have to mount the limit switch. Its not that hard to mount.
It would be the basic setup. Main power switch, two illuminated push buttons (start/stop), the 250K pot to control lead pour, the air switches, and the rest of the parts to automate it.
It would not have the fan control or pot control (PID).

Limit switch video - keep in mind this is a early video before adjustments were made so its basically BANG OPEN and BANG CLOSE. 7 second cycle time I think.

http://youtu.be/Iy2GRIWzdiE

[mktacop]

DANG IT.....I sense another project in the works for me.....

Nicely done HATCH!! I may have to pick your brain on this....

[HATCH]

I attached a video of the limit switch in action 2 post up.
its a early version when I was just setting up the cycle time.
For reference I did have the machine running on a 6.2 second cycle time at one time.
Yep 6.2 seconds for every 2 boolits. Yeah over 1100 bullets a hr!!!!!!
I ran into a issue but it wasn't with the cycle time it was just a issue with the design of the master caster itself.
The Sprue plate covers up some of the boolit when the mold is open.
I had to grind it so it didn't cover up the cavity any. I haven't increased the time because it is working fine like it is now.

[shootinfox2]

Hatch, I have an air assited master caster, designed by Wyman. Would you be able to build the control unit and ship it fora reasonable fee? I like Wyman only need e control unit, the master caster is already pneumatic.
Fox

[mktacop]

HATCH, could you post (or send me) a wiring diagram of your setup? I'm in the planning stages of making this mod to my Master Caster, and a diagram would be very helpful to those of us less electrically inclined. :veryconfu

[HATCH]

I will make one when I build the next one.
To be honest the wiring diagram is in my head.
I just wired it up as I went along and it worked LOL

I need to say something.
I have VERY limited free time.
I will help out with what I can but it may be the first part of the year before I can get all of this done.

I am going to assume that you want a drawing for just the control part itself.
I will draw it with 1 DC power supply as that is what mine would of been if I had the room to do it.

[mktacop]

I will make one when I build the next one.
To be honest the wiring diagram is in my head.
I just wired it up as I went along and it worked LOL

I need to say something.
I have VERY limited free time.
I will help out with what I can but it may be the first part of the year before I can get all of this done.

I am going to assume that you want a drawing for just the control part itself.
I will draw it with 1 DC power supply as that is what mine would of been if I had the room to do it.

That would be most appreciated. I understand that you are busy, so am I. :) It will be a few weeks before I can even start ordering parts anyway.

[HATCH]

Send me a pm with your email address.
Will send you the Plc program and the points list on where the wires go.

[mktacop]

Thanks! PM coming


Sent using Tapatalk

[HATCH]

Put the basic wiring in Post# 2 in this thread.
I am willing to email the PLC program to anyone that wants it.

CHARLES

[HATCH]

Shootinfox got his up and running. Maybe he can post up a pic or two...

I didn't take any of the final panel.

[shootinfox2]

Thanks to Hatch. I willtry to post pics this afternoon.

[shootinfox2]

Thread posted under its alive.

[HATCH]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?178004-Its-alive-Auto-Master-Caster

[ssnow]

Put the basic wiring in Post# 2 in this thread.
I am willing to email the PLC program to anyone that wants it.

CHARLES

If that offer is still good, I'll take you up on it :) This is a really neat project, and I think it's great that you guys are sharing your build information to help the other forum members. I'll send you an E-mail address via PM. Thanks a lot !!!

[HATCH]

I came across a couple of 110v fans that i am going to be adding one to the back of the MC. It will be used to cool the lead that is in the mold.
Hopefully it will allow me to increase the cast rate of the HP mold to 720 per hr instead of the 500 it can do now.

[The Oracle]

Hatch,

Will you continue to use the front fan or by cooling it from the rear with your new fan will you remove the front fan completely?

[HATCH]

Both. They do different functions.
Rear fan cool lead in mold.
Bottom fan cools mold when it's open.

[HATCH]

For those following the thread.
Version 6.0DT has been released

This version has the selectable 'doubletap'
input 4 is used to select single or doubletap.
Doubletap isn't to correct word as its a multitap based on the program. It can be an additional single tap or a dozen taps. There is no limit.

Also a major change was the STOP button stops the machine no matter where it is in the cycle.
Before if the mold was in motion it would wait till that was finished to.stop. Now it just stops and returns to top.

[HATCH]

The final version is in testing.
Fixed a flaw in the double tap and fixed another flaw that would cause double lead pour.

Non-dt versions do not have the double pour flaw

What's amazing is that wyman is running version 3.0 with no changes to anything. He is running default times. I know this because I built his controls and he doesn't own a program cable. He cast 5000 a month or more!!

Unless a major flaw is found, this will be the last version. Gonna run it a week or so then send it out.

[shootinfox2]

Hatch.
Any idea when you might get around to making the automation for the Star for me? I woildmapprecae the program for the Master Caster,

Let me know what you need from me.

Thanks.

Fox

[HATCH]

To be honest fox, I have been very busy.
I was on vacation last week in south Fla. Drove 1200 miles in 5 days with 4 stops to visit places.

I just was able to wire up my star control panel yesterday. Its not finished but i will stop and work on yours today if I have free time

As far as the program goes... This is the deal.

The new program requires a $50 donation to Ken (45nut).
If you have already donated to the board then I give you 1/2 credit for the amount you donated.
For example, i am a board sponsor and donated $40 so i get a $20 credit and the program would cost $30.
The program is copyright protected.
Several people have already donated to get the new program including people that had the original program. The donation covers you for all future updates and limited tech support.

If you have any questions then send me a PM. Do not ask about the star project in this thread as it has its own thread and to be honest your post should if really been in a pm.

[HATCH]

Version 6.1DT is available for release.
Unless a major flaw is found this will be the final release.
There is one bug in it but its not a issue.
If you switch from double tap to single tap while the machine is doing double tap it will stop the machine with the mold at the bottom.
You will have to hit the stop button then the start button to restart it.
I can live with this issue as it isn't a "life safety issue"

I will be sending out the program to all those that have donated later this week.

[Uptickk]

For lead pour you will need a timing relay. I used a Artisan 4300a-3-1. I got it from Allied Electronics. Cost was $35.00 -> http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?sku=70089149
You will also need a variable resister. 250K ohm is what I used. -> http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=70153330



Thank you for sharing your automation. I plan on automating the pour of my masterpot and was wondering what you actually used to depress the pot handle? I am new to the automation thing and don't believe I saw the part listing (saw the timing relay and variable resister) but I may have missed it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[HATCH]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/solvangshootist/Air%20Assisted%20Magma%20Caster/_SS32594.jpg

Do automate the lead pour on the pot you will need the following

6498K195, SST air cylinder, 3/4” bore-1/2” stroke, spring return, nose mount, $18.02
6498K42, rod clevis for 3/4" bore, $4.08
4501K72, 1/4" SCH40 brass pipe, 12”L, $8.88 (cut to 2.125” for 1/2” stroke cylinder stand off)
91251A370, 5/16-24 x 3” SHCS, $7.02 (for mounting 1/2” stroke cylinder to lead valve)
Artisan 4300a-3-1
variable resister. 250K ohm
air switch [MAC PART # IS 35a-aaa-ddaa-1ba]

You will need to do some sort of switch as what I used on the MC will not work for the MP

You need to look at this thread -> http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?153579-Air-Assisted-Master-Caster

That was referenced in the first post of this thread

[Uptickk]

Hatch - Turns out the information was there and I just didn't realize it. Thank you helping me out!

[HATCH]

No worries... Helping out others is what's this place was started for....

[kayak1]

Has anybody done this with a Ballisti-Cast manual setup? I love the work that's been done so far, I hope to see more. I am going to attempt to build a nose down collator and will post the G code for it if I get it to work.

[HATCH]

Did you get the nose down collator built?

[kayak1]

Not yet. I have been working on the master caster on and off,


I am looking at using this as my source for the gcode for the sprocket:
http://www.idleamusements.com/?page_id=367 and I am thinking of using one of the online laser cutting services to cut it out.

The CNC mill I have access to is really too small. It only has the following travel X8.1", Y3.75" and Z12", thus I don't think that I will be able to cutout the sprocket on my own. I have a set of motors.


Attached is the code I have so far for the master caster.
93365

I have it mocked up with an Arduiono, I am designing a custom board with modular connectors. http://www.seeedstudio.com/service/index.php?r=site/pcbService
I can share the eagle files once I get it does if anybody wants them.

[HATCH]

Had a issue this past weekend that I thought i would pass on.
The machine was running fine. I added some sprues back into the pot then the machine would stop at the bottom and hold. I would have to hit the stop button or kill the power.
Turns out that some hot lead had splashed out on to the limit switch and locked it down (on) .
Once I removed it, the machine worked fine.
I have never had this happen so I thought I would pass it on.

[mike daniels]

love to try this project

[HATCH]

Just takes money and time.....

[HATCH]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/08/29/2a23974812b7b116f587dd415c46975f.jpg
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/08/29/021ded6079e0094451dfe566e35429de.jpg
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/08/29/dd8a3c87726da839b0f69775e1a3195a.jpg

Work in progress.
Sub panel still needs lead pour timing relay installes

[Tom_Highway]

[emoji122][emoji122][emoji122][emoji122][emoji122][emoji122][emoji122][emoji106][emoji4]

[HATCH]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/08/29/52195ee4ad397f962ab97200fbc90077.jpg

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/08/29/8a47fb43840e5a698052420a8e484eb8.jpg

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/08/29/b010fc41cb941d675abd10c137985788.jpg

9 hrs to get it to this point
PLC is programmed

Need to install the following

Lead pour timing relay
Hook wires up from lead potentiometer to relay
Hook up cables for remote mounted air switches


The SSR for the pid pot control is going to be remote mounted as I don't know what voltage the MC is set up for.

[shootinfox2]

T ry using a magnetic contact switch instead of the mechanical switch. I t is not as position sensitive as the mechanical switch.

F ox

[HATCH]

Good to know. I use what I got on hand mostly

[HATCH]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/12/7e52d7bc55b4d27a5484279974e54644.jpg

I think this is the last update till tappers
V 7.0

Fixed a minor bug I made when I switched over to touch screen.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/12/468b8f6a8638f628c7d127824831be5c.jpg

[jroc]

I'm not to tech savy so understand that when I ask questions that are obvious to others. Just what all does the this display screen allow you to do? Do you still need computer to write program? Is program still wrote on computer and display used to change portions of program such as duration of sequences? I am interested in automating a Master Caster and my already air assisted Star but don't know anything about the programs. Hatch do you sell the control units all set up? jroc

[HATCH]

The touch screen allows you to control all of the timers that are in the Plc program. Also allows virtual switches so you can control the fan and other features
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/12/5c206f2b72d5662a9fca92b1a2985779.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/12/97cab2299f24ccd77419a5805196a17f.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/12/fb02d7e47be70a908df5363cab657c94.jpg

You still need to program the Plc itself.
The entire control panel with 3 air valves is gonna run around $900 give or take
That doesn't include a pid controller.
That's another $100 for the 1/32 sized one with thermocouple
I just built one for a guy and it ended up being less cause I located a used touchscreen that worked fine.
Have to crunch the numbers for a firm price.

You still need the air cylinders

[jroc]

I can order all the pneumatic parts for air assist per wyman's design. I am definetely interested in doing this. I will PM my email addy. jroc

[HATCH]

You need to get the double acting air cylinder instead of the spring return. That's the 5inch one.
I have made improvements over the years to improve functionality.

[Tazza]

That panel looks good, not cluttered at all.

I'm with Hatch, double acting cylinders are a better option. Wyman's original setup works, and works well but you get a little more control with a double acting cylinder.

[jroc]

Yes I agree that is a nice looking panel. The cylinder was one of the questions I was going to ask Hatch about as early on in I believe it was wymans thread, hatch had changed to the double acting cylinder, hatch answered that question before I even talked with him. I am looking really looking forward to this. jroc

[HATCH]

This is the standard panel
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/13/b56eeebd712a4e7bd3eee6a83ab68188.jpg

Only difference is that you have a indicator for run mode and stop mode.
The switch that has both modes can only indicate one mode. I picked run.
The. Sub panels both look identical.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/13/ef807764cdf54835901deb37a00f6d4b.jpg

[jmorris]

Glad to see you are now a master of the Click PLC and Cmore micro, what do you charge for whipping up a program?

[HATCH]

Depends on what your trying to do.

[jmorris]

I already owe you (at least one) and have other stuff ahead of play. Let me know when you need some knockers for your tapper.

Like your PLC work, took me weeks to figure out what I did.

[HATCH]

The delay for me was just finding time.

[Tazza]

You are not alone with the lack of time...... I haven't even looked at my MC for a few months. The weather over here is starting to cool down, the perfect time to cast. I have a mate that wants a few thousand .38 158SWC, so i will dust the machine off in the near future and hopefully get the tappers sorted out.

I'm sure i'm not alone with projects that just keep piling up that take priority over time in the shop playing with their casting machines.

[jmorris]

The delay for me was just finding time.

Yep, I put off my project for years until my Daughter was born. Glad I took the time to learn and set up what I did when all she did was eat, sleep and poop. Because I don't have the spare time I did back then for sure.

[HATCH]

New addition.
Cycle counter.
This can be added to any panel
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/31/1964a953dd5b93f90b7c25632b51d335.jpg


EDIT - for reference this option isn't available any more because its built into the touchscreen programming now.

[Tazza]

How is it wired? just power from the lead pour or main activation ram solenoid?

[HATCH]

I paralleled the limit switch. Every time the limit switch closes it counts. The machine doesn't need to be in run mode. It just needs to be powered up.

[Tazza]

Gotta love simple. I like the fact it isn't an electronic timer too.

Mine is digital and if/when something went wrong, you have to reset it and the timer resets.

[jmorris]

Cool, could really church it up and make it count for both single and double cavity molds.

[Tazza]

Mine is listed as cycles, so if you have a double cavity mold in, just double it.

[HATCH]

It counts cycles.

[jroc]

I don't know if I need a counter but why not?

I am putting my MC back together I should have taken some in progress pics but I didn't. I took the pot off the MC and installed TC on pot. I completely did away with factory controller soldered wires together that went to original controller then put double layer of heat shrink. I cut cross bar to length out of aluminum bar stock 4 7/8" long. Drilled and tapped ends for 1/4-20 shoulder bolts, drilled 37/64" hole then tapped 5/8-18 for the 5" double acting cylinder. I should say I first drilled and tapped for a 1/2-20 hole not realizing that the single acting cylinder and double acting cylinder have different threads. Anyhow all is good now. I drilled the frame to mount the cylinder mount. This is a 5/16" hole. I drilled mine 2.075" from the back and 2.750" (not a typo) down from the top.

With everything back together I double checked where I was going to drill my hole for the working end of the cylinder. Once I had my location figured out I removed the roll pins on the carrier shaft and removed the mold carrier and drilled the 1/4" hole. Reassembled the mold carrier. After assembly I cycled the carrier by hand and had a slight bit of binding. So now I removed the cylinder mounting bar did a little filing and fitting until everything was nice and slick reassembled. All was good.


Next it was time to work on the pour cylinder. I removed the mainbracket that holds the pour lever assembly and redrilled the existing holes that are already there but not being used. Tapped these holes for a 5/16-24 bolt. Reassembled the pour assembly. Now this is where I am at. I will not be able to finish for a couple of weeks as I had to leave today to go out of town for a couple of weeks. Will finish and show completed project when done.

My machine is the Wyman Hatch design. I want to Thank Wyman for putting his build out there for so many of us to follow with our own builds. I want to Thank everybody involved in these builds for there input. I also want to Thank Hatch for all his help, info and input. And of course for Hatch's Version 7 MC automation. I have the Version 7 with the Touchscreen with the manual mode and safety bypass. Although I have not run this on my MasterCaster yet I have played with it with the lights hooked up and must say it is a great addition to the MC. It is very simple to change the timing and cycles for whatever you need for your particular situation. He makes it very simple to hook it all together and is very willing to talk you through any problems you might have. Again Thank You Hatch.

140995

140994

140993

[jroc]

Didn't realize I put that last pic in there that is the factory controller I did away with. My temp will be controlled with PID that Hatch built into my panel. jroc

[Tazza]

Nice work on the build, my machine was old and the thermostat died on me, i hard wired mine too. It is now hooked up to a PID.

The thing i like about all the MC automations that have been done is the personal touches each person does. It may just be a small thing, but it makes it yours.

[HATCH]

Latest update that I finished last night
V 7.1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmL3C5zfVaA

Added a new screen to the F5 button.
It is a combo Cycle run limiter and counter.
It will allow you to set your machine to run X amount of cycles then it will stop.
It also provides a counter that counts the cycles. For double cavity molds then you would double the cycle count.

This can be added to ANY of the touch screen panels that I have done.
There is NO CHARGE for this update besides you shipping the Touchscreen and PLC to me for reprogramming.
This can be added to the panels that have the add on counter for those that want to use the limiter feature.

The limit feature is good because you can calculate how much lead you use per cycle then figure how many cycles to use 3/4 of the pot.

[Tazza]

Nice addition, handy if you just want x number of projectiles or as you said, work out how many you can cast on a single pot.

The next step will be a conveyor system to drop in ingots after X number of casts to keep the pot nice and full :)

The counter is very handy, it's good to know how many have been cast. When i know i need say 3,000 i can make sure it has run for at least that many, plus some as I don't get two dropping each cycle, every so often you get ones stick.

[HATCH]

Problem with the conveyor is you would have to code in a entry for weight of boolit and number of cavities.
But it could drop a ingot into the pot after a set amount has been cast.
I wouldn't do that just because I would be afraid of a operator error that would dump a ingot when the pot was full or full enough to cause a overflow situation.


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[shootinfox2]

How about a conveyor from caster to collater for the sizer? Just an idea.....
Fox

[Tazza]

As these machines really can't be left unattended for long periods of time, i was thinking of making it adjustable, or even with a float that detects the lead level is low and to drop an ingot in. As long as it adds a enough for it to not run dry too fast, even if it is lower than actually needed it will help.

You could make a float out of say a sphere of metal with a rod attached, it will float on the lead and you can hook up a switch to it so when it gets low it turns on/off.

The thing is, where do you stop?

[HATCH]

With the exception of tappers I am stopping right where I am.
This project has gone way beyond my initial idea.
I can't think of any additions (realistic) to make the operation better (using controls)
Adding a counter setup was a ten minute deal that I should of looked at during the initial touchscreen write.
Again I need to say that I will update any touchscreen setup at no charge.
You pay for shipping to me and I will pay for return shipping.



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[jroc]

Hatch when I get back from Fl and before I go to Arkansas I will ship you my PLC and Touchscreen to get it updated. At this point it looks like I will be keeping it for a while as I have not had any "reasonable" offers for my unit.

[Tazza]

There needs to be a point where enough is enough, the touch screen is very fancy. Mine has plain 'ol switches and knobs, not as modern but works.

Tappers are a good addition, but what i found with mine is that the tapper ends i'm using, wear pretty fast. I have small single acting air cylinders that strike on the bottom allen head screws on the mold. This makes them shake up and down to get 99% of them to drop. I made a brass end fr the cylinders to hit the screw to not mushroom the head after being hit thousands of times. The brass mushrooms with a divot in the end that needs to be ground off every 5,000 or so cycles (10,000 projectiles) or else it starts to hang up on the bolt head and will eventually bed the cylinder rod. Easy to do when you have a lathe, they are simple to drill/tap new ones, but they are a wear item.

[Tazza]

Jroc - That's a shame, for what is going with it, the price seemed about right to me. All the bits and pieces add up fast. Over here, a mold costs with shipping and conversion about $135 each then add the PLC and touch screen, control box, air cylinders etc, the MC it's self.

[jroc]

Ya no biggy I'll just keep it. I don't really have room for it since we downsized but I'll see what happens. I may just rent a little garage or something somewhere so I can go putts.

[wymanwinn]

i am still subscribing to the original Hatch automated MC....keep it simple i say...LOL...

i rather enjoy being out in my Cave (reloading room) tending to the MC busy purring away making about 720 bullets per hour all the while why i either sizing or pulling the handle on one of my Dillons....

life is good in the Cave...

y'all be good now, hear!!

wyman

[HATCH]

I will leave this here - in progress panel update for me
. 201832

It's not a version update but a larger touchscreen and I am updating to the latest version for myself.

[Tazza]

Such a clean look, mine has a bunch of switches, an LCD and pots to adjust timers, looks kinda messy but when you use it a bit, you just remember what does what.

What does the larger touch screen cost these days? I'd like to get something that i could use with my system, it uses the I2C protocol, wonder if something could be found to do that.

To the ebay to see what china has available!

[HATCH]

I bought two used demo panels for $100 each.
At the time they were $300 each new.
They discontinued this model. The replacement is $300 also. Not sure if it does the same.
I know that the panels I have just plug straight into the plc just like the 3 inch models do.
They get power via the rj45 cable

There are several on eBay right now for around $150-$200.
I would offer $100 and see what they say. The demand for them isn't that high


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[Tazza]

Sounds like a good deal to me, 1/3 the price of new, even used and in good shape it's worth it.

I need to find a good outlet for cheap used gear, i want to get my hands on a cheap used VFD, the one i have on my sizer works better than i expected, it was also free :)

[HATCH]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170814/e2ba4445edf108115014ef175d589419.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170814/e56f8ac02eabae7b5eb0143fb896b1d7.jpg

It's getting there.
Waiting on another SSR.


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[keithd]

Hatch,

Are you still making these for sale? I'll be moving back to the States sometime this summer and I wanted to start saving up some funds to buy one. I really like what you've done with the automation panels.

BTW, what's the cast rate with a automated Master Caster with 2 cavity mold versus, say, a Lee 6 cavity done by hand? I know if you run 2 hand casting molds at the same time it can really speed up production, but my hands would wear out fast I'd think.

My goal is to eventually have an automated Master Caster and a Dillon 1050 w/an Ammobot. Do you think you could automate a Dillon too? :2gunsfiring_v1: <-- I could be like that smiley!

[HATCH]

Yes I still make the panels. I have a listing in Swap and Sell.
You can get between 600 and 750 boolits per hr on average.

The advantage with the automated caster is you can do other stuff while it works and it produces commercial quality boolits provided you feed it with good lead.


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[Tazza]

You should get around 600-800/hour. I have had mine running pretty fast, over 1,000/hr but you start to have issues of heat making lead stick to the mould. Run it as fast as you can to get good quality, the best part is, you can sit back at just feed it lead.

A lee 6 banger will do more, but it is more taxing on your hands if you run two at once.

[wymanwinn]

i get 720/hr and has Hatch says, one can "multi-task"....i lube and size at the same time....

[bstone5]

My automated MasterbCaster will do 800 per hour but when you add lead to the melting pot and allow the melted lead come up to temperature the average will come down to an actual rate of 600 cast bullets per hour. When I run the automated Master Caster I cast for several days and cast 8000 bullets using several molds for different caliber cast bullets. All of the cast bullets are powder coated over a few days after the casting machine is mover to a dedicated storage location.
The machine is mounted on a steel structure made from 1 inch square tubing, swivel casters are mounted on the bottom legs of the steel structure.
Most of the powder coated bullets have a home made gas check installed on the base of the plain base cast bullets. I make the gas check makers with my lathe in the shop behind my house.
I am 72 years old and have the available time since I retired at the age of 70.
All of the cast bullets are used by me self, my family and a few friends who help with the casting and powder coating. I do not sell cast bullets as a business, I cast as a hobby only.
The casting machine is ran about ever 4 months so as to have bullets available for reloading.
I have 16 different molds for the automated casting machine most are from the machine manufacture but a few are converted RCBS molds.

[oldsman]

hatch,? on your control panel, my master caster is setup in a non heated garage (separate building), will the control box handle cold temps dipping below zero at times

[HATCH]

The operating range is 32f to 120f
I believe if the panel isn't powered up at zero you would be fine.

I can look at installing a heater to keep the panel above 32f


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[oldsman]

I may hold off now on the panel set up because of the temp issue, or if something that can be resolve latter.
in the mean time I showed your system to a friend and he wants one and I will be doing the setup for him and his garage is heated
my other option is leave my stock and just use his
I will pm you for details











so I will pm you
Thanks

[HATCH]

Do you intend to cast when its zero degrees or are you going to heat the building so you can work in there?

[oldsman]

I use a propane torpedo style heater to get the chill out

[HATCH]

If it brings the inside temp above 32 then your fine


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[oldsman]

one more ? can I run the pot before powering up the panel while I am waiting for working temp ,plus I will not be out there when it
gets real cold anyway ,the coldest I will go out there will be in the 20's, as long as the cold temps don't affect it when the system is shut down

[HATCH]

I can install a override switch that bypasses the SSR and energizes the pot. But unless you still have factory thermostat hooked up it would be wide open with no control.

Another thought, I can install a switch for the PID that would allow you to power up it without powering up the entire panel.
It would allow you to have thermostatic control.
You would need to tell me that you want this when I am building your panel as currently the PID controllers I use for MC panels are powered by the D.C. Power supply (24vdc).
This isn't a problem as I normally stock the AC PID controllers as well.
There is no additional charge if you want this done.
The PID is prob 32-120f as well but it's not that expensive should it fail but I don't think that it would fail. I do think the display may not work at freezing temperatures though.

[oldsman]

YES that's sounds good lets go that route with the extra switch
I will pm you

[wymanwinn]

UPDATE

thought i would chime in here and give an update to the Hatch/Wyman automated Master Caster

as seen in post #1 of this thread Hatch automated my version of the air assisted Master Caster. i believe in have control #2!!!

just wanted to say the automated Master Caster AND the Hatch controls worked this past weekend like they were brand spankin new cranking out about 720 bullets/hour for a total of 12hours (that's about 8600 9mm bullets or 150# of alloy) over the weekend....about the only glitch is the return spring needs to be replaced, probably every 10,000 cycles

like a Timex watch...it takes a lickin and keeps on tickin...!!!

thanks again Hatch for a GREAT controller...:)

wyman

[HATCH]

Wyman, thanks for the update.

You know we can swap out the movement air cylinder to a double acting and do away with the spring.
You can use the same air valve as you do on the Star but just have the voltage 24vdc instead of 120v.

Let me know if you want to do that minor update and I will hook you up with a new air cylinder at no charge.
It will require you to redrill your rear bracket though....

[wymanwinn]

Wyman, thanks for the update.

You know we can swap out the movement air cylinder to a double acting and do away with the spring.
You can use the same air valve as you do on the Star but just have the voltage 24vdc instead of 120v.

Let me know if you want to do that minor update and I will hook you up with a new air cylinder at no charge.
It will require you to redrill your rear bracket though....

what are the part numbers to the new air cylinder and the new valve...might just think about this a bit...

thanks Hatch!

[HATCH]

6498K637, SST air cylinder, 3/4” bore-5” stroke, double acting, nose mount, $39.50 (AD- A12050DN $22)

AD = automation direct
Ad is cheaper and they offer free shipping if you buy enough stuff ($100?)

The valve. Snap me a picture of the valves you have. I might have a extra you can have.

Basically the up stroke valve is hooked up normally closed. You don’t have to rewire anything.

On the new panels I build, I energize the upstroke when the machine is powered up but not in run mode. This allows free movement of the handle
I can provide you a relay and instructions

[glockfan]

this thread helped me deciding on an automated mastercaster.

[Tazza]

They are a great unit, i bought mine second hand, i have cast 400-500,000 projectiles with it, no idea what the previous owner did with it.