38 long?

[camaro1st]

i have a pistol that my mom gave me and the barrel says 38 long. Is this the same round as a 38sp?

[linotype]

No, the .38 Long is shorter and less powerful than the .38 Special. A .38 Special may fit in the cylinder, but do not fire it in the .38 Long Colt.

[linotype]

Check this web site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_Long_Colt

[camaro1st]

55072
here is a pic linotype the target it is on is not from it.

[9.3X62AL]

Looks like a 5-shot nominal 38-caliber small-frame S&W or copy of same. Spain and South America birthed many of these, and some are good-quality revolvers. Look for identifiers like "Eibar" (center of Spanish armsmaking) or the stylized "S&W" escutcheon on the receiver flat opposite the photo'd side of your example. Finally, one indicator of caliber is the presence or absence of a chamber "step" inside the cylinder charge hole. Its absence indicates usage of an outside-lubricated bullet as the 38 Colt Short and Long had, the presence of the step is consistent with an inside-lubed cartridge like the 38 S&W or 38 Special.

[MtGun44]

I ran into a .38 Long - real Colt gun a few months back. I noticed the straight through
cyl right away and was really puzzled until I did some study. Apparently they were trying
to make the transition from outside lubed to inside lubed and the accuracy was reported
to be pretty dismal.

Bill

[9.3X62AL]

Bill--

As I understand things, both the 32 and the 38 Long Colt cartridges tried to load undersized bullets in the manner of inside-lubed cartridges without much success. Outside lubrication and accuracy can co-exist......22 LR seems to manage just fine. I would be willing to bet that if dimensional integrity is maintained that decent accuracy could result. I almost snagged a Colt SAA x 4-3/4" in 41 Colt to mess around with, but the seller wanted too much money for the thing. The success and diversity of the S&W-pattern inside-lubed calibers/revolvers and the scarcity of the Colt outside-lubed calibers and their platforms says volumes. I was fond of The Road Less Traveled caliber-wise for quite some time. As I approach dotage, my patience for such diversions wanes considerably.

[I'll Make Mine]

The big advantage of inside lube is that the unlubed exposed portion of the bullet doesn't collect junk the way the outside lubed bullets do. Think of old style wax lubed .22 LR -- carry those loose in a pocket, drop 'em on the ground, etc. and they pick up all kind of lint, grit, and plain old dirt.

That said, get the proper mold and cast/size/lube heeled boolits that fit the cylinder throats (.380-.382 is a good guess, short of slugging the cylinder) and keep the boolits clean, and once you find the right load that .38 Long Colt will shoot as well as an inside lubed .38 S&W. Try to load it with the undersize .358 inside lubed bullets, and you may as well throw rocks.

[MtGun44]

Of course outside lubed can work, as you mention the only remaining example is the .22 rimfire and it works very well.

Apparently they tried to make hybrid guns and ammo and really failed. Not surprising. I read up on the gun in
the Blue Book, I think and they mentioned a .365 (or similar, from memory) groove diam and the cyl would
have to be .380 or so, so you can see where this is going. Nowhere good for accy.

"if dimensonal integrity is maintained" - sure but only by us, now - not by the factory ammo back then.
Impossible to use .380 boolits without a heeled mold, I suppose a custom mold could be made and outside
lubed, but the gun was intended to shoot inside lubed ammo. I fyou assume that the boolits were about groove
diam, then they had 0.015 slop in the throats!! Gee, I wonder why they were inaccurate? NOT!

As far as lockup - the design was VERY odd. There was a tiny nub sticking forward in the top rear of the
trigger guard that the trigger would trip just as it completed the last bit of travel when pulled. This nub
drove the hand a bit more to complete the lockup. Seemed really iffy and odd to me, but I suppose you
can't shoot without pulling the trigger. . . . . . . . BUT. Not my cup of tea in several ways, but I did learn
a bit that evening that I had never known before about the history of designs of Colt revolvers.

Bill

[camaro1st]

the cylinder does have the step in it.55256 It was made in Spain. Lino has been helping me greatly on this. i will take all the info i can get. thanks guys

[9.3X62AL]

Well, cool. It looks like the Spanish maker did a better job of adhering to Revolver Dimensions 101 than Colt did. I'll bet that shortened 38 Special cases and .357"-.358" boolits will make serviceable ammo for your roller.

[beagle]

I have a Lyman Ideal 35870. I think that's the mould they made for loading that little gem. I've cast with it but don't recall the dimensions. We were working with something in .38 Colt on a rolling block/falling block of some kind./beagle

[camaro1st]

bill it's 6 groove. Beagle if you still have the mold i may hit you up after the holidays swmbo says no more till after the new year.

[MtGun44]

A situation where copying the Colt would have been BAD. Good luck with that one, may
be made properly to shoot well with the shorter cased ammo. Fitting boolits to the
throats and having them a touch larger than groove is the path to accy.

Bill

[Gibson]

Amazing what one can learn by just reading here and following up. Learned a lot about heeled bullets.

I did not even know that I did not know. . .

[MtGun44]

This is the reason that these .357-.358 diameter boolit cartridges are called ".38s" - because in their
original outside lubricated rimfire versions, they WERE .38 caliber. Like the .22 RF, case diam
and boolit diam were the same. Then we got sick of crud sticking
to the outside lubricant and went to inside lubricant. This originally totally destroyed accuracy,
but they quickly figured it out and the stepped chamber for a .357 or .358 boolit with a .380-ish
case diam. .44 Colt is another example, and you can still get brass from Starline and if you
find a heeled mold - duplicate the orginal ammo.

Bill

[beagle]

Well, I'd probably let it go. Had it for about 10 years and haven't cast with it but once so it doesn't get much play. PM me when you're ready./beagle


bill it's 6 groove. Beagle if you still have the mold i may hit you up after the holidays swmbo says no more till after the new year.