Should I buy a 6.5 Carcano?

[303Guy]

There is one in my price range with a 7/10 bore, whatever that means. It's supposed to be a full battle dress 1940 rifle. I know, I know, it's not a 303 Brit but heck, it's a Carcano. It'll cost me 225 Ozzie dollars to get to me. Should I buy it?

54912

[WILCO]

Oswald had one.

[leadman]

Maybe the 70/10 bore is a reference to the gain twist? Never heard a bore described that way before.
I had a really nice Beretta made Carcano many years ago. It was like new. Shoot well but I just didn't like it back then. Now I would like it alot.
Here in the States parts, ammo, and reloading equipment is readily available. The clips are a little pricey but listed on many internet gun parts houses.
Even the oversized 6.5 (.268") bullets are available now. The .264" bullets shot very good in mine.
You will probably have almost as much in the reloading stuff as you will pay for the rifle.
If you have the funds why not? Would be fun.

[303Guy]

70/10 is a typo - it was supposed to be 7/10. Seven out of a possible ten? It could also refer to the twist. If it's the muzzle end that's poor then it'll never shoot as an original piece. If the wear is even from breach to muzzle then good but that's a bit unlikely. Fire-lapping might restore accuracy to a muzzle worn gun but without cropping and recrowning? Not so sure.

I'm not sure what cases might be available for it in my parts. I've heard of cases being made from donor cases but I don't know which. I would make my own reloading dies for it if I do get it. Bullets I'd make or go with paper patch boolits.

A negative is I would not be able to scope it if it's original - unless I can do so without drilling and tapping and with fitting a new stock.

[HighHook]

I have one and was deadly at 400yrds years ago. We used jwords hitting 10"steel . The barrel is 7 out of 10 . Didnt do so well with cast but, i might just have to wipe the dust off and give it another shot with larger sized boolits.

[Dutchman]

What would a m/96 Swede cost in Aussie$$$ ? It's a lot more rifle. Even if it's twice the money it's more than twice the rifle. And your mates wouldn't laugh at you [smilie=s:.

I bought a m/1891 Carcano once at a gunshow in Indiana. Long rifle made in 1897 in Torino, Italy. Nice stock cartouche, decent all around. Paid $65. About 13 years ago. Didn't shoot it, didn't keep it. The law of acquisition says if it's a deal, buy it. I bought it.

Dutch

[nekshot]

I don,t know what the conversion to dollars would be but I got one at an estate sale converted to 7.62x39 and I changed the loading to a bottom loader and I love it. They are not the junk many think they are. Realise what it is and what it is not and it would be a blast to play with just for something differant. I want another one as soon as I get current project done which is converting lee to one piece stock. Almost done and a gun show tomorrow in town, I need to keep eyes open for a another carcana.

[gnoahhh]

In the end, no matter how good the deal, it'll still be a Carcano. Put the money toward something more substantial.

[Hamish]

I'm not sure I understand. Will it break every 10 rounds fired? Guarenteed not to shoot straight? It won't be any fun at all? ???

[texassako]

I like shooting my Carcanos, though most are 7.35. They have all been reliable, accurate, fun, and cheap. I get strange looks at the range when I occasionally take a handful and a can of ammo to punch paper for a few hours.

[nekshot]

Hamish, it will not break. I am not knocking anyones input but after all the work I did on mine and working with the metal in mine, I can trully say they are a hardy well built gun that has recieved alot of bad input like many things in life. the only honest draw back I can complain is the stiff safety. If I ever find one in full battle gear at a decent price I will buy it and leave it original. I generally look for bubbyied military rifles that are greatly reduced so I can fruther mutilate them!

[scb]

303, it's your money and you most certainly can do with it what you will. Frankly I wouldn't accept one of those as a gift.

[perotter]

I've heard of cases being made from donor cases but I don't know which. I would make my own reloading dies for it if I do get it. Bullets I'd make or go with paper patch boolits.


I made cases from 220 Swift. I'd say to buy it.

[OBIII]

Privi Partisan makes relatively inexpensive ammo for it. I bought 100 rds for 60.00 about a year ago. The clips can be pricey, but keep looking, you will find a deal somewhere. I have one just like Oswald, and it's got one of the strongest receivers (hearsay) out there.

[S&W-629]

i had one and i sold it for food a year or so ago and i wish i had it still.so i would go for it

[JeffinNZ]

Pete, I paid NZD180.00 for my shortened FAT41 with a 9/10 bore. AUD225.00 is a bit steep in my books. I like mine though and now have the Cruise Missile and NOE 269-145 moulds. Lots of fun.

[Fly]

My thoughts,If you got a deal on it then buy it.If you don't you will alway,s kick your self for not buying.
Hell if you don't like it sell it!You got a deal & can sell it to someone else for a deal.

(Just me) Fly

[Uncle Grinch]

Bought a 6.5 Carcano when I was in high school just before Oswald made them famous (infamous??). I proceeded to bubba it up and after all my effort, it still wouldn't group worth a hoot, plus I kept losing the clips. Back then you could buy surplus ammo at K-Mart and it came with new clips. I ended up trading it for a 16 gauge H&R shotgun.

A year or so ago, I traded a 22LR Jennings for another Carcano. This one had been spoterized many years previous. Can't get it to group with cast, so I picked up some 160 gn .268 bullets. Haven't loaded any up yet, but I'm really itching to as this Carcano is a nice looking little rifle.

[nekshot]

uncle g, now that is one sweet little gun. Wow, gives me inspiration!

[MBTcustom]

What would a m/96 Swede cost in Aussie$$$ ? It's a lot more rifle. Even if it's twice the money it's more than twice the rifle. And your mates wouldn't laugh at you [smilie=s:.

Dutch

I agree. I know I will probably get flamed for this, but even at $65, if it looks like all the others I have seen, I would pass. The Carcano rifle holds the record in my mind as being absolutely the most junky rifle in history. I would sooner have a last ditch Arisaka than a carcano.
FWIW I love the cartridge. It looks like it was made for accuracy and I wouldn't hesitate to rebarrel a Mauser for that caliber with a good quality barrel, but honestly, the Carcanos could have been cut out with an oxy/acetylene torch and had better fit and finish than the ones I have seen.
In contrast, the swedish mausers give me goosebumps when I see them. The ones I have seen have been very well made.
I mean just look at this!!!
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=318583251
Picture #21 pretty much says it all.
Now, compare that to picture #5 of this Italian carcano:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=319066454
Just sayin.

[TreeKiller]

My brother inlaw went out and bought one the day after Oswald did his deed

[dnepr]

Well my carcano has a .255 bore and a .271 groove I am I plan to try .257 boolits paper patched and if you were to start loading and paper patching for a carcano it will probably make my learning curve faster :mrgreen::mrgreen:

[MtGun44]

The problem has been stuff like the JUNK Norma ammo (very unusual from Norma) which has
been the only ammo available once the Italian milsurp ran out. Somehow Norma managed (still
manages???) to make ammo that uses .264 bullets for a .268 bore. I have several, and a really
nice rifle will shoot iffy ignition milsurp ammo into 2-3" at 100 yds shoots Norma into 20"
at 100 yds, same day, same gun. I shot a lot of the Italian milsurp ammo back in the
60s and they shot just fine, about the same as my Mausers of various types and calibers.

Proper diam bullets are now available thanks to Hornady. Apparently Hornady actually
bought a rifle, and apparently Norma never did. It is advertised as a 6.5 mm and Norma
"knows how to make 6.5 mm bullets" - for their guns, .264 is correct, for the Italian
guns, it is NOT.

Perfect example is the guy posting above who went to the trouble to sporterize it, but
found it to be an inaccurate rifle. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that he was using Norma
ammo, since it was the only ammo available in the USA for decades. How Norma could
get it this wrong for so long is beyond me.

Sorry goodsteel - you normally are right, you are really wrong on this. I have had a number
and they are at least as well finished as most of the Brit Enfields and German Mausers made
in wartime, and FAR better than the wartime Mosin-Nagants. Wornout bores? Sure. Junk
manufacturing? Never have seen one. Am I a big fan? Not particularly, but they have
gotten a bad rap, IMO primarily due to really badly made ammo from a major, normally
high quality maker - Norma. Norma just got it dramatically wrong. Add in the last dribs
of Italian ammo were going sour in the primer dept and you had no decent ammo for
a long time.

Bill

[MBTcustom]

Well, my comments were not based on ammo or having fired one. Just picking them up at gunshows and such and being appalled at the retched fit and finish. I will keep looking, but so far, I haven't seen anything but junk. In fact, the one I posted the link to is better than anything I have ever seen in person.
Glad to know there are some out there that are worth having.

[ukrifleman]

I see that there are still people out there that junk the Carcano's reputation, mainly because of using the wrong ammo (.264 spitzer bullets instead of the correct round nose .268) or believing the myths and hear-say that has filtered down the years and is now accepted as fact.
If you want a definitive, expert opinion on the quality, strength and accuracy of the Carcano; I suggest you log on to `Surplus Rifle Forum`and read the report by `Rapidrop` on the Italian Rifles forum.
Here is a photo of my `Junk` 1918, Terni manufactured M91!
ukrifleman.

[perotter]

The Carcanos I've shot were great shooters with 160 gr Hornady. I've never shot anything but my own reloads in them, so can't comment on personal experience about factory ammo. If a rifle isn't a good shooter, the good looks of fit & finish count for nothing.

The only thing I don't like about them is having a clip, otherwise I'd consider them the only common worthwhile mil surplus bolt rifle for practical use. With the carbines being the best.

[herbert buckland]

One of the most acurate cadt bullet rifles I have used was a Carcano rifle with gain twist which suprised the hell out of me.If shooting cast you realy need the adjustable sight models to be practical,my fixed sight carbin will not shoot to point of aim with cast,this can be overcome if you are wiling to stick to one load and adjust the front sight with a little brazing and filing

[303Guy]

The clip thing worries me. I'm also thinking the price might be a little high. It does sound like a perfect paper patch rifle though.

[leadhead]

About 5 years ago, you couldn't give me a carcano. I thought they were junk
like I had heard from a so called expert. Well now I have 15 different ones and
beleive me, there not junk. You have to remember the Italians have been making
guns longer than anybody and they know what there doing. They used the best
steel they could find. At first, they do seem very funky but after shooting them
(with the right dia bullets) and getting used to the sights, there a joy to shoot.
I shoot all cast bullets in my military guns and can make the bullet any size I want.
Denny

[bob208]

well i am of 2 thoughts. first is no if you are thinking of a shooter. as pointed out the 6.5 sweed or even the 6.5 jap are better rifles. now as a colector yes. at one time i had 2 jap rifles i sold because i was only looking at mausers and 03's. big mistake. one was a 6.5 all matching navy marked type 38. the other was a type 77 all matching with the aa sights still on it along with the monopod still on it. both nad the mums intact. wish i still had them in my colection.

[nekshot]

come on guys, keep seeing them as junk because I want to buy a few more to play with.

[perotter]

come on guys, keep seeing them as junk because I want to buy a few more to play with.

And $45 is top dollar for them. But, being the nice guy that I am, I'll help out anyone who is unfortunate to have one of these junkers & give them $50 for it.

[craig61a]

A few years back these were going for much less, and better quality examples were available, at least on the auction sites I frequent. Unless you're going to cast for it, bullet choices are very limited. I have one I bought a number of years ago, and while fun to shoot, I seldom seem to grab that one from the rack. These are not 'junk' rifles; but that perception is what has kept the prices low for so long, just like the japanese arisaka - those were considered junk for many years, and were cheap to buy. With many more people getting interested in milsurp rifles, and the supply from arsenals drying up over the last several years on just about everything, prices are steadily going up. Some more than others. I guess if it's a caliber you're really interested in playing with then go for it...

[Ed in North Texas]

Hamish, it will not break. I am not knocking anyones input but after all the work I did on mine and working with the metal in mine, I can trully say they are a hardy well built gun that has recieved alot of bad input like many things in life. the only honest draw back I can complain is the stiff safety. If I ever find one in full battle gear at a decent price I will buy it and leave it original. I generally look for bubbyied military rifles that are greatly reduced so I can fruther mutilate them!

If I get the gist of your first two sentences correctly, I think you missed the sarcasm in Hamish's post.

Ed

[ROGER4314]

The Carcano rifle holds the record in my mind as being absolutely the most junky rifle in history. I would sooner have a last ditch Arisaka than a carcano. Took the words right out of my mouth!

I was a Senior in HS when Kennedy was shot. I cried. Later when the whole story came out, I was into guns and I marveled at the incredible rapid fire shots Oswald made with that rifle. Once I saw and experienced Carcanos for real and had the cartridges in my collection, studied the ballistics and history of the rifles and ammunition, I knew it was all a lie. A marksman took the life of JFK but it wasn't Oswald and it wasn't done with that rifle. I'll never believe it. One day, we'll know the truth.

I like Sigma pistols and put up with constant griping about those pistols. If you like Carcano rifles....more power to ya! I formed my opinion long before the Internet existed from my own experimentation. I don't care for them, thank you.

Flash

[303Guy]

They found a fired carcano bullet in the limousine, remember. The same one that had passed through Kennedy's neck. They've shown footage of someone operating a carcano at the alleged speed that Oswald did and it was easy. Someone else showed how 'impossible' it was to fire three shoots with one in the 5.6 seconds it took Oswald to fire three shots at Kennedy.

Thing is, Oswald did not fire three shots at Kennedy in 5.6 seconds. He only fired two! He took one carefully aimed shot which actually missed Kennedy's head hitting him in the neck instead, reloaded and fired and missed again, then reloaded again and finally hit - in 5.6 seconds. Even then he did not hit dead centre of target. Two shots in 5.6 seconds! The timer only started at the firing of the first shot! One goes into a hyper-state where everything seems to be in slow motion.

I can shoot aimed shots at a rate of one in two seconds and hit with astonishing accuracy. OK, that's with a bolt action Remington 22 but even so. I know how fast and accurately I can shoot when fired up with adrenalin. There's no way an assassin would be in a calm and relaxed state when about to commit such a dastardly deed! Oh, I can shoot my hornet just as fast - no recoil to contend with but from free hand). You know, with a recoiling rifle from a rest one fires and reloads before the rifle comes back to rest on target, allowing plenty time to re-acquire the sight picture and fire again.

Anyway, it's the history of the carcano plus its odd calibre that interests me. No other military rifle (beside the Lee Enfield and sort of the Arisaka) interests me like that anomaly, the carcano. It's my financial priority which makes me hesitate right now. I want one but at a better price and with a better bore because I surely want to shoot it. I do like the idea of the scarcity of ammo, knowing full well I can make ammo for it. I just want to have one! (Preferably one just like Oswald had).

Not saying Oswald acted alone or there was no conspiracy, just that what he allegedly did with that carcano would be quite easy. My only question is why did he miss his first shot? Nerves perhaps? I've done that - missed the first easy shot then nailed it with the two rapid and moving follow up shots on a faster moving target.

[herbert buckland]

The Kiwis faced a lot of Carcanos in north Africa in WW II,probley a few old diggers around that can tell you about them

[303Guy]

Interesting. Mmm .... Maybe I should visit our local RSA. I met a gentleman who saw me admiring an Oerlikon 22mm machine gun outside his RSA. Fascinating! He fired them but not in anger.

I knew someone who commanded three tanks in the African desert. His tank was hit and while he was climbing out and down the side he saw the metal turning grey around him so he turned to look and there was a German firing a machine gun at him! He said he 'went away quickly'! While he was running another guy saw him and ran with him. That poor fellow was hit. In another battle his tank was again hit and he got burned and was taken prisoner by the Italians and ended up in an Italian hospital. Heck, I wish he wrote a book I could read about himself. My own Father too. He's still alive at 93.

See why these old war horses are such fun? Yup, I want one.

[Beekeeper]

303 Guy,
I do not know the exchange rate NZ dollars to American but I paid $100 American for a 7 MM Carcano about 6 months ago.
It is one that was used by the Vatican Guards ( documented) and is like new.
Has one small nick in the butt stock where someone tried to grind the butt plate.
It shoots exceptional and likes a .300 150 grain boolit.
Will hit POA at 100 all day with that boolit.
Recoil is not bad.

Might be the perfect rifle for the new Lady?


beekeeper

[JeffinNZ]

About 80 cents in the dollar Beekeeper. NZD1.00 = USD0.80.

I really like my Carcano but I still say the one Pete is looking at is two pricey.

[MtGun44]

Duplicated the "Kennedy shot" as best we could with open sights back as a teen. EASY to do.
The explanation of two manipulations of the gun in 5.6 seconds is correct. Time starts on the
first shot. I emphasize it is EASY to do, not particularly challenging to anyone that has been
taught to shoot, and Oswald was a Marine so trained in riflery better than most military. It
was a 60 yds shot, for gosh sakes, directly away from him and slightly downhill, rested on
a windowsill at perfect height for a kneeling position.

I have amassed all the hardware to build a pretty accurate reproduction of Oswald's rifle,
although was unwilling to spend upwards of $500 for the correct crappy 3/4" 4X riflescope of
the type typically seen on .22 rifles at that time. I have a effectively identical but not literally
the same brand scope and a very nearly identical side mount made of sheet steel. It will
be visually and functionally identical - same exact model rifle. Duplicating the shot again at
over 60 will be 'interesting'. In FBI testing with ammo from the same lot and with
the actual rifle, they put 5 shots "into a nickel" at the correct range. I have a hardbacked
book of the Warren Commission report, and contrary to the common misconception, it is
a very detailed report with lots of testing done, lots of pictures, etc. They did a really good
job. One shooter, from the School Book Depository with a 6.5 Carcano. NOW - as to exactly
WHY and with WHO supporting him (if any) there is plenty of room for discussion. I always
have to laugh and shake my head when I am told about how poor a job the WC did on the
testing, how the rifle was inaccurate and impossible to shoot that quickly. I have asked
MANY times "Well, have you ever read the Warren Commission report?" "Have you ever
fired a Carcano at a target in timed fire?" and NEVER had a 'yes'. I have had access to, and
now own, a hardback since it came out in about 1964. Read most of it many times.

The rifles are not inaccurate with proper ammo. Action throw is short, feeding is slick and
totally reliable from the Mannlicher enbloc clips. Darned clips are getting hard to find and
expensive. The iron sights on many versions are a real puzzle, though.

Bill

[Hamish]

I will have to check in with my neighbor across the street, he has some of the same lot, FBI wanted to know how he got it when he discussed it with them at one of the hearings. (IIRC, that particular lot of ammo should not have been available?) He knows stuff that would fry your hair. He and Oswalds widow corresponded for many years. I've never asked to look at his Carcano, but I guess I will have to. You know, the Italians have been making firearms for a purty long time, I wonder if they're as junky as some of that Pashtun and Kybher shtuff? @(;^]#>:::

[303Guy]

303 Guy,
I do not know the exchange rate NZ dollars to American but I paid $100 American for a 7 MM Carcano about 6 months ago.
It is one that was used by the Vatican Guards ( documented) and is like new.
Has one small nick in the butt stock where someone tried to grind the butt plate.
It shoots exceptional and likes a .300 150 grain boolit.
Will hit POA at 100 all day with that boolit.
Recoil is not bad.

Might be the perfect rifle for the new Lady?


beekeeper
Sounds perfect, yes! The price would be far more attractive than the one I'm looking at as Jeff says. There's nothing wrong with a 7mm boolit which isn't 7mm anyway. I'm thinking of a 7mm paper patched boolit, mmm .... perfect. If the sights are a bit funny would it be OK to modify them? Meaning I don't want to lose the originality factor. Are those 7mm Carcano's still available?

[Buckshot]

.............Over my time fooling with rifles I'd read and heard all about the junky Carcano's. I had an 01 FFL for 20 years and had plenty of opportunity to buy one 'Just to see', but never did. One day at the range Brian the rangemaster said he was needing some cash and had a few rifles he was wanting to sell. I ended up buying 3 from him and one was a M38 Fucile Corto in 7.35x51. It was in great condition, and the Italians had sent it to Finland (it has the boxed SA mark) to help hold back the Russians. All these Carcanos were given to rear echelon troops, as it was non standard. So I proceeded to do the 'New Gun' deal, EG: hunt up dies, brass, and the other needfulls.

Then I started reading about them. While I liked the appearance and handiness of it I thought the fixed rear sight was dumb. However before too long I realized several things, and learned several more. Remember one thing foremost and that was that it was designed before and then accepted for production in 1891. The US military was still fielding the black powder single shot Trapdoor. Possibly the number one disliked feature is the split bridge. Heck you can't mount a regular scope on it! Bummer. The 1891 Mosin Nagant has that problem, AND the 1892 Krag shares that idiosyncrasy. Add to the so does the German 1888 Commission and besides military duty it went one being privately manufactured for years as a sporter. If the split bridge weren't bad enough the dang thing uses a packet charger. So did the 1888 Commission, and the 1895 Steyr straight pull is also unuseable with out the same thing. Oh and how about the M1 Garand?

In 1891 the Carcano was state of the art. The Italians knew they didn't have the metallurgy knowledge or ability necessary for thier new smokless powder rifle so they looked for those who did and contracted for the steel outside Italy. It's admitted that the bolt in the Carcano isn't as easily manipulated as that in some other bolt actions, but military doctrine taught their troops to operate it 'Con Gusto'. There's a video on You-Tube of a guy sitting at a bench and absolutely slapping that bolt back and forth, and putting out a VERY respectable amount of firepower. A couple years or so after getting the M38 FC I was able to buy a Moschetto per Truppi Speciali M91. It looked like it had never been issued and in fact had been made after the 1943 capitulation of Italy.

http://www.fototime.com/255F7C195A182FC/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/9CC81583032A470/standard.jpg

Left the M38 Fucile Corto 7.35x51. On the right is the Moschetto TS M91 in 6.5x52.

http://www.fototime.com/CC4F620CC8FC8CF/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/371130D084561ED/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/1FE24E99E7DD71D/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/8D31F5F85594F82/standard.jpg

One of the other things I learned is that the Italians developed the carbines to be light, handy, robust, and as soldier proof as possible, with few small parts. They did a good job. The fixed sight works out to 300 yards against their intended target. At the end of WW2 in interviews it was discovered that the vast majority of American troops never adjusted their sights after initial sighting in. They just held high or low. All in all, for a system developed in 1891 it isn't bad. The cartridge is very similar to the several recent bright ideas as replacement for the 223 in power.

............Buckshot

[JHeath]

Youtube has an old CBS video in which they hired White Labs to duplictate the Oswald/Carcano shots and a number of participants succeeded without much apparent difficulty. Apologies because I don't want the thread to get hijacked on that topic.

I haven't owned a Carcano but 6.5s with long bullets have a lot of merits. The unrefined construction and finish is kind of charming. Non-adjustable sights and the packet charger seem the only down sides, but for a budget rifle it could be a lot of fun for the money. Buy it instead of a $1200 rifle and spend the difference on ammo, and you'll be a better shooter than if you bought something fancy.

[303Guy]

Please feel free to hijack - it's about Carcano's and I still want one! Even more so now. I'm not so keen on the gain twist though. Do the come in normal twist?

[dnepr]

Please feel free to hijack - it's about Carcano's and I still want one! Even more so now. I'm not so keen on the gain twist though. Do the come in normal twist? the newer ones like my 41 are regular twist

[nekshot]

Buckshot, thanks for that informative input. Now I want one in full military attire for no other reason than the history.By the way I was told the Italian tanks had one gear forward and five in reverse. Wonder if that is where all this negative input came from?!!!

[herbert buckland]

I would not dismmis the gain twist rifles,it was one of these that shot the best for me with the CBE GC bullet that is made for the Carcano.From what I have been told the Italians heart was not in the war and large surender numbers showed this,when they heard of a few masacars of prisnors, later on they caused a real problem

[JHeath]

Buckshot, thanks for that informative input. Now I want one in full military attire for no other reason than the history.By the way I was told the Italian tanks had one gear forward and five in reverse. Wonder if that is where all this negative input came from?!!!

Iirc the Italians really had a military utility vehicle with driver's seats/steering wheels at both ends, and equal gears in "forward" and "reverse". I suppose the purpose was to accomodate very narrow Italian roads/streets where it would be impossible to turn the vehicle around. I think it was amphibious too.

[Donor8x56r]

Actually I have a question:

My M91 Carcano was made in 1918 and at that time it did have some kind of (royal?)crest on the receiver.

Whatever it was it has been ground off but I still wonder how did it look like.
can someone post link to picture on the Web or just post picture for all to admire?

Thanks.

[303Guy]

My thanks to Buckshot too. My desire for one is growing. It just looks cool and it does have some history behind it. It is quite 'different' and to me it has a certain desirability. So gain twist is OK for cast. Great - how about with paper patched? One way to find out I guess. There is or was a fairly cheap but well used one on the 'net.

[Buckshot]

............Just go and do a search for 'Carcano' on the net. There's tons of info. Also lots of less then correct info. This guy http://www.vincelewis.net/mannlichercarcano.html not only doesn't know what he's talking about, the skank stole 2 photos I'd posted sometime-somewhere of my Moschetto TS M91 Carbine! Sheesh! Ah well, they're NOT copyrighted or anything, but the fact they're on such a knucklhead's page kind of frosts my begonias, ya know! :-)

..............Buckshot

[craig61a]

............Just go and do a search for 'Carcano' on the net. There's tons of info. Also lots of less then correct info. This guy http://www.vincelewis.net/mannlichercarcano.html not only doesn't know what he's talking about, the skank stole 2 photos I'd posted sometime-somewhere of my Moschetto TS M91 Carbine! Sheesh! Ah well, they're NOT copyrighted or anything, but the fact they're on such a knucklhead's page kind of frosts my begonias, ya know! :-)
..............Buckshot

I looked at that site - he's a buffoon...

[superbee]

What a great thread guys! It has really improved my understanding of the Kennedy assassination.

I would be willing to bet that most Americans are under the assumption - like I was - that it was a shot of several hundred yards.

303Guy, thanks for explaining the logic of the time sequence of the shots. Big difference between trying to get three accurate shots off as soon as someone starts the clock running versus having the clock start as soon as the first shot is fired. Again, I bet the average American has not thought that through either.

As for me, I'll hold out for a reasonably priced Swedish Mauser.

[MtGun44]

Honestly, guys, the shot is pretty easy if you can run a bolt gun at all.

Take this challenge next time you are at the range with a friend. Take a stopwatch, set up
in a stable postion, forward hand rested, comfortable either sitting or kneeling with a solid rest,
about 60 yds (use 50 if your range only has that) and set up a 6x6 inch target. Use your
favorite milsurp rifle - even with open sights which are much slower for this. Fire three shots
starting the first one taking your sweet time, then two follow ups as fast as you can run and
gun. You'll probably be surprised. Have your friend start the watch on the first shot (reacting
to YOU) and stop it on the final shot.

Then the next time someone tells you about the "impossible
shot" you'll have a considered and tested opinion on the matter.

Bill

[MaxJon]

Looks a lot like the one i was offered about 2yrs ago for $250 AU. The rifle was in great condition, but i just didnt know enough about em. Gain twist, brass/dies availability, etc.. not to mention a bit pricey now i look at it! I saved the money for a M96 6.5X55. I think the clips were nearly worth more than the rifles if you can get em.