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NVcurmudgeon
07-23-2005, 01:44 PM
The goal of one .44 Magnum load accurate in both pistol and rifle can be elusive. My S&W 629 seems to thrive on any diet, but the Marlin 1894 Cowboy ranges from mediocre to awful. Recently I found that I can hold the nine ring of a 25 yd. pistol target with 7.0 gr. Green Dot and the RCBS version of the 250 gr. PB boolit. (Shot in Bullseye style, for some odd reason I shoot WORSE from the bench with a pistol.) The rifle shot six groups of five at 50 yd. averaging 2.33". Best 1.75", worst 2.875." This was shot in a moderate Washoe Zephyr with a pretty big aperture in the Lyman 66 rear sight, and the factory gold bead front sight. Sight picture was either a "halo" of black around the bead, or the black perched on top of the bead. On a calm day, with a more Camp Perry-worthy sight arrangement, groups might have been better, but for the kind of shooting I do with this rifle, I'll take it. This rifle has been kind of a PITA in the bench accuracy department, but very good at busting clays offhand out to 75 yards. There are some who might sneer at a less than MOA rifle, but some of us never grew up and just like to have fun. The Keith-type boolit will not feed in my Marlin loaded into standard-length cases. Trimming to 1.265" (.010" sort of normal "trim to" length) and seating in the crimp groove makes for slicker than snot feeding. This load is about 1100 fps in 24", 970 fps in 8 3/8", and 920 fps in 6." Research continues. Thanks to nevada duke and shuz for the load.

Bass Ackward
07-23-2005, 05:45 PM
The goal of one .44 Magnum load accurate in both pistol and rifle can be elusive. My S&W 629 seems to thrive on any diet, but the Marlin 1894 Cowboy ranges from mediocre to awful.


Curmy,

I am not surprised at you findings so far. In fact, I would say that you have achieved great success, all things considered. What is especially nice for you is that the 7 gr / GD is probably right in a good velocity range to accomplish what "you" want to do with it. Where you would ever be in trouble is if you wanted to soop both up for long range or hunting applications. Then you would probably have to go back to seperate ammo with that 629.

My 44 levers (92 and 1894PG) won't perform unless I go up in diameter. Then they work with almost anything and everything. But I now have a Redhawk that can handle / requires bullets of similar diameter. In fact, for me, .432 seems to be a nice compromise here. But then my luck has been aided by an olgival bullet that feeds in the rifle better with a wider front band to cut down on bullet jump. And that works for both platforms. It is light enough that you can load it down for the slower twist rate or step on it.

Congradulations on your success. But try and get your hands on some larger diameter bullets in the future and see what your rifle really is capable of. You might just find enough reason to go to seperate ammo again. Remember, you can always take a large bullet and size it down if you want to handgunize it.

BCB
07-23-2005, 06:39 PM
NVcurmudgeon,
I know you are talking about a 44 Magnum, but I was in search of the same thing you are except with the 357 Magnum. I have a Marlin 1894C and a Ruger Security-Six. The bullet that was accurate in both was the 358429. The only problem—couldn’t get the same load recipe to shoot great in both pieces. The 358429 is also a Keith style bullet and I had the same problem with the finished cartridge feeding in my Marlin also. So, I trimmed 0.04” from several cases and seated the bullet in it to the crimping groove. It would feed nicely. So, I set the dies in my RCBS carbide die set to bell and seat for a 38 Special. I then used the washer that came with the die set to reload the cartridges for the Security-Six. I made a washer of the appropriate thickness to allow the belling die and the seating die to be at the right position to reload a cartridge that would feed in my Marlin. This way I didn’t have to change the adjustment of these dies for loading any of the rounds associated with this set of dies. Since that bullet is just about all I shoot in my 357 Magnums and 38 Specials, the dies remain mostly unadjusted. By the way, I never did get one recipe to shoot well in both the Marlin and the Ruger.

Also interesting is the fact that you are using 7.0 grains of Green Dot and the RCBS 250 Keith bullet (44-250-K ???). I use the same load in my Ruger SRH and it is very accurate out to 70 yards. Accuracy does diminish at the 100 yard mark, but it is still good enough to rattle my 5.5”x11” pendulum at that distance. Bullets impacts generally are at the 3" to 4" groups size on the pendulum.

Good-luck with your venture to find the ideal load for both weapons…BCB

NVcurmudgeon
07-24-2005, 01:38 AM
Bass, the possibility of larger diameter bullets has crossed my mind repeatedly. My Marlin slugs .4305, and my egg-shaped RCBS 250 Keith averages a scant .431. My other mould, an RCBS 44 240GC, is about as egg-shaped and is about .433 ON THE FRONT BAND and .429 aft. I run the bullets thrugh a .431 sizer and hope. It seems that the mould makers still believe that the .44/40 is the most recent cartridge out there. Looks like it's Beagling, and lapping out a .429 sizer, as the next experiment.

Bass Ackward
07-24-2005, 10:00 AM
Bass, the possibility of larger diameter bullets has crossed my mind repeatedly. My Marlin slugs .4305, and my egg-shaped RCBS 250 Keith averages a scant .431. My other mould, an RCBS 44 240GC, is about as egg-shaped and is about .433 ON THE FRONT BAND and .429 aft. I run the bullets thrugh a .431 sizer and hope. It seems that the mould makers still believe that the .44/40 is the most recent cartridge out there. Looks like it's Beagling, and lapping out a .429 sizer, as the next experiment.


Curmmy,

I never had any luck with obtaining the diameter I needed in a factory mold outside of 30 caliber. And because I never know exactly what demand I am going to place on my bullets for range, I prefer well balanced bullets from the mold. So although I have beagled in the past, I don't any more for that reason.

With the advent of Dan's business, I now enjoy the bliss of reloading freedom from being a slave to a single process or tedious technique. My repertoire (that's french) of methodical, steps for load development have been minimized. Sure, it is a lot of hastle sometimes to get the measurements correct so that you get the bullet design just right. But after that, you mold, load, shoot.

Bullet fit is the KEY to good alignment and ignition. Get those consistent, and you can operate at any velocity range you want, as long as you are with in the stabilization range of what you are using.

44man
07-24-2005, 03:38 PM
I think you are looking for accurate, light loads in your 1894, but mine will not shoot good until I increase velocity and boolit weight. With the Lee 310 gr boolit and 21.5 grs of 296 I get groups at 50 yd's of 7/16" for 5 shots and with the LBT 320 gr, 20.5 grs will shoot as tight. I use a lot of plinking loads with a 250 gr boolit and 7 grs of Unique but they will not shoot as tight, almost, but not as good.

9.3X62AL
07-24-2005, 03:53 PM
As if the 25-20 WCF rifle isn't enough entertainment.....I'm about to embark on a rifle/revolver one-load venture with the 32-20. Recent acquisition of some molds to service this caliber provide more material to work with, but the real challenge is to find a boolit that does as well in the revolver throat as it does in the abbreviated and abrupt leade of the rifle. This should provide at least 6 months worth of diversion and distraction, I'm sure.

Bass Ackward
07-24-2005, 04:26 PM
As if the 25-20 WCF rifle isn't enough entertainment.....I'm about to embark on a rifle/revolver one-load venture with the 32-20. Recent acquisition of some molds to service this caliber provide more material to work with, but the real challenge is to find a boolit that does as well in the revolver throat as it does in the abbreviated and abrupt leade of the rifle. This should provide at least 6 months worth of diversion and distraction, I'm sure.

Al,

You might be surprised. As long as you don't have your expectations too high.

44Man,

Man you are lucky or good. I can't stabilize anything over 280 grains outta my 1894.

45 2.1
07-24-2005, 04:30 PM
I'm about to embark on a rifle/revolver one-load venture with the 32-20. Recent acquisition of some molds to service this caliber provide more material to work with, but the real challenge is to find a boolit that does as well in the revolver throat as it does in the abbreviated and abrupt leade of the rifle.

Go check out the 32 Group Buy mold.
It's a natural for the 32-20.

beagle
07-24-2005, 09:50 PM
Guess I've been lucky on the pistol/rifle combos.

After three .44 Magnum rifles, I settled on a M94 Legacy. Both it and the two Super Blackhawks shoot the 429421 Keith over 15.0 grains of WC820 (L50276) really well so I said, "Whoa, here's a good place to stop" and that's about the velocity I want for a plinking, knock around load.

Then, my Marlin M1894 .357 Mag carbine handles 11.8 grains of 2400 to the tune of less that 2" at 100 yards with a 358429. The Blackhawk .357 likes that load as well.

Now, I'm not taking on the .45 Colt combos.....enough is enough./beagle

TCLouis
07-24-2005, 11:21 PM
Beagle
Is that #9 rate WC820?

Nosey folks wanta know.

44man
07-26-2005, 12:41 AM
Bass, here are 2 groups I shot with mine doing a lube test. The left group is with LBT blue and the right group is with the best---FELIX lube.
Load was 21.5 grs. of 296, 310 gr. Lee and Fed 150 primers.

Bass Ackward
07-26-2005, 06:25 AM
Bass, here are 2 groups I shot with mine doing a lube test. The left group is with LBT blue and the right group is with the best---FELIX lube.
Load was 21.5 grs. of 296, 310 gr. Lee and Fed 150 primers.

44,

Well Marlin is never going to change the twist rate if they see success stories like that. What happens at 100?

beagle
07-26-2005, 12:18 PM
This is pretty close to AA#9. I used AA#9 starting data and work up with it.

The 429421 with 15 grains gives me 1323 out of the long barrelled Legacy.

The 429421HP with 15 grains gives me 1084 out of a Super Blackhawk.

Both loads do well on paper and for plinking and the handgun loads mild enough so that I can shoot a bunch in one sitting. Great for plinking at 100 yards./beagle


Beagle
Is that #9 rate WC820?

Nosey folks wanta know.

BlueMoon
07-26-2005, 02:24 PM
I must be missing something. Looking in the Ly. 48th handgun data for the 429421, don't show it with rifle data, the starting load for AA#9 is 17.5grns at 711fps from their 4" test barrel.

Bill

44man
07-26-2005, 06:26 PM
Bass, it shoots good at 100. I have been trying to find my targets. I have drawers full but no luck yet. I might have to shoot some more. I do know it is deadly on deer.

44man
07-26-2005, 10:14 PM
I found one target from when I sighted in for deer, It is 1-3/4" at 100 yd's. The Marlin is really a good shooter.
I found the 320 gr LBT shoots real good with 20.5 grs of 296 also.
You fellas might want to try the Fed 150 primer instead of the mag primer. I have always had better accuracy from the .44's with them. For some reason 296 and H110 does not need the mag primer in the .44. My .475 does better with mag primers though.

Shuz
07-29-2005, 11:33 AM
A great load I've used in both rifle and revolver is 16.0g of 2400 and a Lyman 429640HP modified by removing the gas check shank. The boolit weighs 270g.
Winchester Trapper--1371fps sd 33
S&W 329PD--928fps sd 12
S&W 629 Classic DX 5"--1031 sd 31

Accuracy is very good in the Classic DX. Last time out with this load I shot a .910" 25 yd 5 shot group from a bench. This gun does have a 4X Leupold on it.
Accuracy in the other guns is M.O.D (minute of moose) which is around 1-1/2" at 25 yds and about 2-1/2 inches at 100yds.