Web Expansion--.243 Winchester...

[BCB]

My nephew purchased a Rossi (I warned him) single shot rifle in .243 caliber…

He claims it won’t stay on the paper at 100 yards—we shall see about this today…
(He shoots about 4 rounds per year!)

‘Scope is tight as that was the first thing checked…

I measured some of the unfired cartridges at the web and then some of the fired ones. There is an increase in web diameter of 0.0069”. An average number from 6 fired rounds…

Winchester 100 grain ammo…

Does this seem like too much expansion at the web?...

Thanks…BCB

[Ed in North Texas]

You might want to check Ken Waters writing on how he determined load pressures from case head expansion. I'm too lazy to dig out my copy of Pet Loads, but he might have included a figure for the cartridge in a write-up of .243. I don't calculate pressures for my reloads from case head expansion, so I can't help you on the exact figure. I do think that which manufacturer's cartridge case is being used matters. As a probably extreme example, if you were to take the unfired/primed Lake City military 7.62 brass currently on the market and convert it to .243, I think the case head expansion would differ from say a WW or RP new .243 case.

Just my $0.02.

Ed

[BCB]

Yea, I thought about Ken Waters as I have his Pet Loads books...

But, I was thinking he used case expansion to determine if a reload was hotter than a factory load...

The factory load being the guide line as to what is maximum or near that for a given cartridge...

Thanks...BCB

[NSB]

I'm not a big fan of Rossi single shots but to be honest, most of them shoot "OK". If it were me I'd take it out and shoot it before getting too excited. I had a friend of mine bring a rifle back to me that I'd glass bedded for him saying that it was shooting 12" groups at 100 yds. We went to the range and I proceeded to shoot a ten shot group into 1.1" at 100 yds. He also shot very, very little during the year. Another thing to consider isn't just the scope mount and rings being tight but the scope itself. Most people don't buy a Rossi and then put a Leupold or Zeiss on it. If it's a cheapo Chinese promos scope that can be the problem also. If it does shoot poorly, try a different scope on it and see if that makes a difference.

[BCB]

NSB...

I agree with all you said...

A new 'scope was placed on it. I think a Bushnell without going to my vehicle and looking at it...

I ain't in the category of a military sniper, but I have fired a few rounds down range in the past 45 or so years, so I might be able to determine--shooter or firearm problems...

Thanks...BCB

Yep, I think I will be able to tell if it is the shooter or the firearm

[Bullshop]

Any expansion of the web is too much. If the web is increasing in diameter primers will get loose. If your measureing the pressure ring just ahead of the web in my opinion you are getting too much expansion. To me unless the lot of ammo being used is known to be too hot it would indicate a grosely oversize chamber.
In most cases with a normal dimentioned chamber and with max loads on a 243 case I consider .004" max expansion at the pressure ring.
I cant say that it is what is causing inaccuracy but can say its not helping.
I once had a customer bring in one of the handi rifles in 22/250 that had so much excess headspace it would only fire if pointed straight up so the case head would sit back on the breach face. I consider the two Rossi and Handi on par for quality or lack of it.

[Larry Gibson]

Bullshop

I think BCP is referring to the expansion ring area at the front of the "web" where the case normally expands(?). I agree with you that any expansion in the actual "web" area, especially as much as .0069", is too much. That area is now commonly refered to the "case head" of the cartridge....is that what you meant?

Larry Gibson

[Bullshop]

Yes that is what I ment. The solid portion of the head before the interior begins. The head or web or whatever one would call it. If it shows any measurable expansion it is too much and will eventually show itself in the primer pocket loosening.

[BCB]

Expansion Ring in front of the web...

You guys are both correct...

I used the wrong terminology...

But, I thought that much expansion might indicate too large of a chamber...

I did shoot the rifle and I was getting 2.5" at 100 yards...

That is acceptable to me and the rifle in question...

The nephew shooting it shoots only a few rounds per year...

So, it appears the rifle might be doing all it can do...

Final shooting, I was hitting 12-ounce beverage cans at 100 yards...

Good enough...

Thanks...BCB

[Bullshop]

So it sounds like he is not a reloader and in this case may be a good thing. Those cases might be perty hard to fl size.

[BCB]

So it sounds like he is not a reloader and in this case may be a good thing. Those cases might be perty hard to fl size.

Nope, he isn't a reloader...

I do reload the .243, but I am not going to reveal that info to him...

The rifle is more than capable of a deer at 100 yards and a bit farther with a good rest, so it is his "baby" now...

Thanks...BCB

[tomme boy]

Winchester brass is small to begin with. I avoid it if I can. Whenever I see brass with the bright ring around the base, it is usually Win brass.

[Larry Gibson]

+1 on Bullshops comment; too much expansion at the expansion ring for FL sizing w/o excessive case stretch and quick incipient case head seperation inevitable.

Larry Gibson

[357maximum]

A neighbor of mine brought me his kids .243 Rossi to me with the same "accuracy" issue...I could actually drop in a .260 rem cartridge and close the gun. :shock: Pretty much cured me of ever buying one for any reason. Gun still shot Remington 100grain .243's into about 1.8 inches at 100 though.:veryconfu

AN NEF/H&R is lighyears ahead of the Rossi or at least they used to be in the "sane": calibers anyway.

[softpoint]

As a side note, I once had a Remington 700 Sendero in 7mm mag.that the chamber was so egg shaped that the sizer die would swage a second "belt " on the case trying to size it:shock:. Darn thing still shot under an inch most of the time, but couldn't reload for it, so i got rid of it. I sold it to a fellow who didn't reload and he was/is happy with it. I had bought 100 new cases when i bought the rifle, and after loading and firing them with several loads discovered I couldn't resize them to go back in the gun!:veryconfu