Belgium eclipse shot gun

[19ellis93]

I'm trying to fix this gun up for a friend and need some info on it. Also to see if anyone would know of a place to buy a stock for it as ive came up short.
http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af239/ellis111/2012-11-28_04-58-46_113.jpg
http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af239/ellis111/2012-11-28_04-55-16_885.jpg
http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af239/ellis111/2012-11-28_04-55-07_698.jpg
I can't make out what it says after eclipse on the barrel
And a few pics of the ragged stock
http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af239/ellis111/2012-11-28_04-56-55_866.jpg
http://i1011.photobucket.com/albums/af239/ellis111/2012-11-28_04-57-03_481.jpg
As you can see its in terrible shape and needs to be replaced,problem there is that you CAN'T find one. Looks like I need to learn to carve

Ellis Fortenberry

[Goatwhiskers]

A word of advice, tell your friend to save his money and get something worth owning. The gun is plainly marked "damascus" or laminated steel. Point #1 is that the Belgian guns were not noted for fine quality control. Those guns were imported by the thousands back in the day and were cheap even then. Damascus barrels can develop rust or separations in the laminations starting from inside where it can't be seen, many times caused by black powder shells being used and not properly cleaned. They are not safe with modern shells and when they let go they can be grenades as they go right in front of the chamber where the pressure is highest. Use your own judgement, but my eyesight and hands are too important to me to take the chance. Goat

[19ellis93]

His reasons for fixing it is purely sentimental,"my grandpas dad gave it to him and he gave it to dad......bla blaa". Personally I like the guy so he'll be told your advise cause I've read on other forums the very same thing. The barrel and receiver are immaculate as far as rust and what not,regardless I'll never have it fire in my hands

[pietro]

EVERYBODY wants to make a silk purse from a sow's ear......................

FWIW, "Immaculate" & "rust free" is no indication of strength, quality, or a deterrant to self-destruction.

The point is that, even though you, I, and the owner may know that - some innocent who gets their hands on it one day, is most likely to unknowingly lose an eye or worse.

IF you refurbish a stock for it, I would strongly recommend filling the action insides with epoxy, to deny firing, down that road.

A good-nuf' stocker should be able to adapt pretty near any halfway decent-looking stock from whatever SxS (sidelock-to-sidelock or boxlock-to-boxlock, of course) to the action for use as a wallhanger.

.

[19ellis93]

He'll be informed,I'm not concerned about it as much from reading this
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=259371&hilit
There's another link,actually several that goes in great depth into this subject.

Regardless of how you or I feel on the subject it is the gun owners soul responsibility of how he cares,handles,loads this firearm.

[Reg]

Note the stamping on the rib, it says "Damascus Finish ". At the time, a damascus or twist steel barrel was actually to be considered as the top of the line. What we call a fluid steel barrel was looked as cheap. Since the Belgium made guns sold cheap they needed the glitter on the hub caps in order to sell them, a artificially applied damascus finish was one way to do this. If you are curious, go on the bottom of the barrels where it will not show, polish a small spot and put on a drop of muratic acid and let it cook for a bit. If it is a true damascus barrel it will show a damascus pattern, if it doesn't, there is a good chance it is a fluid steel barrel.
If it's a fluid steel barrel then the question will arise,can you shoot it ?
There are those out there that collect and shoot high grade doubles both in fluid steel and damascus . Am not sure exactly what their rational is but it seems to be if it's a very high grade gun and the barrel looks good then why not shoot it ? Black powder of course. If this applied to the high grade guns then why not to the lower grade guns as well, the manufacturing process was about the same and all quality control at the time was the human eyeball. X rays were yet to be invented.
There are now process's out there that can determine to a good degree just how solid a barrel is. X-ray, eddy current, etc. I know of a few that have had their barrel checked out and now shoot them on a regular basis and I have never heard of anything letting go but ---------
Another factor one MUST consider when wanting to shoot these older guns is the fact that many steels will tend to embrittle with age especially those that have been subjected to stress. It shows up not only in firearms but especially in older farm machinery and other bigger machinery. Heavy loads have taken their toll.
You might get away with shooting that old double for fifty years and the barrels are perfect but on it's fifty first birthday the locking mechanism lets go and you get two eyes full of hell fire and damnation.
I would go ahead and restore that old double. Yes, it was a cheap gun even in it's day but it has a very important place in our history. We take too much for granted now and some of us that are older if we will just stop and think we can remember that once upon a time we did not have the wealth we have now. It was worse back about 1900 to WW-1, about the time that gun was in use. As cheap as it was, that gun was the apple of someone's eye and I bet they used the heck out of it. It filled a place in history, our history.
Restore it and do the best you can do but never, ever shoot it again. It has earned it's rest.

I will now stop preaching !!!!!

:coffee:

[curator]

I have had good results repairing this kind of stock damage using Brownell's "acra-glas gel" epoxy. The damage is usually due to becoming oil soaked from over-oiling and standing on the butt stock so it runs down into the wood. Getting the old oil out so the epoxy has some grip is the only difficult part. If large areas of wood are missing, I mix the epoxy with saw dust and fill and fit in several sessions. Be sure to treat the metal parts with release agent twice so they don't become glued-in permanently. Despite the poor reputations of these old doubles they are pretty good guns and well worth saving. Ther eis a new book out on "Affordable Shotguns" by Nick Niles which does a good job of telling the story of how they were made and imported into the US by the millions.

[Mooseman]

The Proof marks on the barrels are For Black Powder only. There are NO Nitro Proofs visible.
Stocks are impossible to find so you either repair the old one , or Carve a new one...