Advice Needed: Powder and Primer Order

[7Acres]

Hello again,
Earlier the kind members of this forum gave me some great advise about my somewhat out of whack powder order I had cooked up. I've done more research, crunched the numbers, incorporated your feedback and here's the new version of my powder & primer order. I tried to balance the quantity of the various powders with the primer quantity so they match up pretty well. Does this look like a good balanced starting order for a newbie like myself who has the reloading equipment, boolits and brass but am now putting in my first order for powder and primers? What looks odd? What looks redundant? What would you adjust if you had similar intended uses as me (stated below)?

Primers
Tula Small Pistol Primers Qty:5000 Use: .380, 9mm, .38Spl, 357Mag, .40
CCI Large Pistol Primers Qty:5000 Use: Various .45 semi-autos
Rem Primer 6-1/2 Small Rifle Qty:3000 Use: Various .223/5.56 ARs

Powder
Accurate No. 9 Qty:4lbs Use: Hot 357Mag revolver loads and .357Mag lever action
IMR 4198 Qty:8lbs Use: .223, (45/70 and 7.62 which I don't currently own)
Aliant Unique Qty:4lbs Use: Mainly my 12ga Shotgun plus gentler handgun loads
Winchester Autocomp Qty:4lbs Use: Faster, cleaner more typical handgun loads

[Kent Fowler]

Imo, I would drop the Autocomp and buy WW-231 for your typical handgun loads. It is a much more versatile powder from looking at your list of pistols and is one of the better metering powders I've ever found. Also, you might look into the Hodgdon line of shotgun powders(Clays, Universal, ect) that can do double duty as pistol powders. Regarding the primers, if you can swing it, I would double your pistol primer order due to the political situation.

[7Acres]

Imo, I would drop the Autocomp and buy WW-231 for your typical handgun loads. It is a much more versatile powder from looking at your list of pistols.
Also, you might look into the Hodgedon line of shotgun powders that can do double duty as pistol powders. I'm only finding one loading for Unique in the 12
gauge section in Loaddata.

Hi Kent Fowler, I like your WW-231 suggestion. You mentioned "Loaddata" info for 12 ga loads. Pardon my ignorance. Do you have a link or source so I can look through the "Loaddata" data? Thanks!

[Ford SD]

Not sure of your loads
1lb of powder = 7000 g

So if I am Loading 308 with jacketed = 1 lb powder = 100 LR primers ----> if cast 2 or 300 primers

Pistol Cals 1lb of powder = 350 to 2000 primers depending on the load/ powder

Does this help ?

[Kent Fowler]

Handloaders magazine offers LoadData, a pay reloading data site, and I use it, along with my manuals. Seems like its about 25 or so bucks a year. I did go back and edit my first reply as I found a lot more Unique 12ga. loadings a few minutes ago, than I originally found, though, for the life of me, I can't ever remember any skeet shooters or bird hunters I hung out with ever using Unique as a powder. And that's not to say it's a bad shotgun powder. I started out reloading 12 gauge using SR-7625, went to Win. 452 until they replaced it with Super-Target. Used 473AA until they discontinued it, and then went with Super-Lite, which they also discontinued. Bought a ton of it, though,and still use it today. Have no idea why Winchester does these things, but rest assured, they will discontinue AutoComp as they did WAP and replace it with another one of their designer powders. Which is why I say stick with the WW-231/AA-5 types as these will be around for a while.

[Ickisrulz]

If you are ordering 4198 for an autoloader (AR15), beware that people sometimes have problems getting it to cycle the action. I used a couple pounds myself. It worked for my 16" mid-length, but short cycled my 20" rifle. There are better powders for the AR15.

[Ickisrulz]

If you are ordering 4198 for an autoloader (AR15), beware that people sometimes have problems getting it to cycle the action. I used a couple pounds myself. It worked for my 16" mid-length, but short cycled my 20" rifle. There are better powders for the AR15. H335 is one of them, or the bulk counterpart which can be had for $85/8 pounds.

[RG1911]

For .223, I'd use Alliant 2230 (that was developed for the .223) or H335. If you're going to shoot the heavier 77-grain bullets, go with Reloader 15.

You didn't specify which 7.62 you were contemplating. If 7.62X39 (the AK-47 cartridge), Reloader 7, which I use, works well. Note that Reloader 7 also is recommended for the .45-70 and I use it there, also.

If you're talking about 7.62X51/.308, then you'll have a hard time beating IMR4895 or IMR4064, or the Hodgdon versions. But remember that the powders are similar but not identical. Quite a few competition shooters swear by Varget.

I happen to use Winchester Super Target in my competition .45ACP loads. Lots of people like Bullseye. That also works in .380 and 9mm. It's been a long time since I reloaded for those cartridges. I may have used Red Dot for the .380, and I'm pretty sure I used Alcan 7 for 9mm and cast bullets. I don't think Alcan is available anymore.

Unique will work quite well in .38 and .357 loads using cast bullets. I haven't used it for jacketed, but it probably will work. Actually, for magnum loads, H110 and W296 are the most-often recommended powders.

As Kent Fowler recommended, at least double the number of primers. And I notice you don't have any Large Rifle primers, which you'll need for the 7.62 and .45-70.

Suggestion: Get enough inexpensive Tulammo primers to get you by for a while. Then go to a local store and pick up an assortment of Winchester, Remington, Federal, and CCI primers for test loads. Find which work best for your applications and buy a BUNCH. I'd recommend 10,000 of each. I think you'll find that, unless you're doing target work, the Tulammo will work just fine for your pistol loads. The rifle loads may be a bit more finicky.

Unfortunately, trying to reload so many calibers with just a few powders may not provide the consistency and accuracy you probably want. Starting out is expensive. (If you were near me, I could make you a heck of a deal on a couple shelves' worth of powders I tried but decided not to use.) By the way, once you find a powder that works, and if it's for a high volume rifle case, or just for one of which you shoot a lot) buy 32 pounds at a time. For instance, the .30 carbine case only uses 14.5 grains of powder, but M1 carbines are fun and I shoot them a lot.

Cheers,
Richard

[WyrTwister]

I load more Unique and 4895 than the rest of them .

Well , maybe AA # 2200 for .223 . It used to be ~ $ 80 for 8 pounds .

I presently use AA # 9 for HOT magnum handgun loads .

Buy absolutely ALL the primers you can scrape up the $$ to buy .

Then powder .

Then brass .

Then bullets .

Then lead , if you cast .

God bless
Wyr

[blpenn66502]

The Rem 6 1/2 isn't an ideal choice for 223/5.56. Remington specifically recommends their 7 1/2 primer for that application. Lots of publications use the Winchester SR primer, I've had success with the standard CCI SR primer (400) with both extruded and ball powders and CCI also sells a military primer No. 41 specifically for 5.56

[1bluehorse]

I'll bet it's back to the drawing board again huh? :confused: [smilie=s:

[WyrTwister]

Last time we ordered Wolf primers , I ordered some made specifically for 5.56 mm . Have not tried them yet ?

God bless
Wyr


The Rem 6 1/2 isn't an ideal choice for 223/5.56. Remington specifically recommends their 7 1/2 primer for that application. Lots of publications use the Winchester SR primer, I've had success with the standard CCI SR primer (400) with both extruded and ball powders and CCI also sells a military primer No. 41 specifically for 5.56

[7Acres]

blpenn, thanks for the advice about the primers. Unfortunately I placed my order on Thursday. I had no idea what "6 1/2" meant. What does that refer to? Primer diameter? Primer cup thickness? If I use those primers with 5.56 brass what issues are likely to occur?

[slim1836]

"Aliant Unique Qty:4lbs Use: Mainly my 12ga Shotgun plus gentler handgun loads"

If I recall correctly, Unique in shotshell is reserved for 3" shells, not 2 3/4". Something to look into. Others may know more on that.

Slim

[1bluehorse]

"Aliant Unique Qty:4lbs Use: Mainly my 12ga Shotgun plus gentler handgun loads"

If I recall correctly, Unique in shotshell is reserved for 3" shells, not 2 3/4". Something to look into. Others may know more on that.

Slim

I use Unique (not exclusively) in 1 1/8ounce 12 gauge "shorts". Good load..

[7Acres]

1bluehorse, thanks for the verification on that. I'm guessing when you say "shorts" that's slang for 2 3/4"? Either way my shotgun will handle up to 3 1/2" shells. It's just a lot easier to find used shells for 2 3/4". And easier on the shoulder to shoot!

[7Acres]

After the input from this post as well as some helpful PMs I settled on this order last Thursday. I wanted to share it with you since your input helped guide me. I wasn't able to incorporate every suggestion into this order but I hope this will be good enough to get me off the ground as I start reloading my own cast ammo.

Primers
Tula Small Pistol Primers (Qty: 5000) Intended Use: 380, 9mm, .38Spl, 357Mag, .40
CCI Large Pistol Primers (Qty: 5000) Intended Use: Various .45s
Rem Primer 6-1/2 Small Rifle (Qty: 3000) Intended Use: Various .223/5.56 ARs
Win Primer 209 Shotshell 5000/CS (Qty: 5000) Intended Use: 12ga 2 3/4" through 3 1/2" length shells

Powder
Accurate No. 9 (Qty: 4lbs) Intended Use: Hot 357Mag revolver loads and .357Mag lever action
Aliant Unique (Qty: 8lbs) Intended Use: Mainly my 12ga Shotgun plus all my handgun loads
Hodgdon H335 (Qty: 8lbs) Intended Use: Mainly my 5.56 gas piston AR plus other AR-15 style .223 gas impingement ARs

I'm still open to critique as I'm sure this won't be my last order for powders and primers. Thanks again to this cool community for your guidance. I can't wait for this package to arrive!

[WyrTwister]

Bullets ?

God bless
Wyr



After the input from this post as well as some helpful PMs I settled on this order last Thursday. I wanted to share it with you since your input helped guide me. I wasn't able to incorporate every suggestion into this order but I hope this will be good enough to get me off the ground as I start reloading my own cast ammo.

Primers



Tula Small Pistol Primers (Qty: 5000) Intended Use: 380, 9mm, .38Spl, 357Mag, .40
CCI Large Pistol Primers (Qty: 5000) Intended Use: Various .45s
Rem Primer 6-1/2 Small Rifle (Qty: 3000) Intended Use: Various .223/5.56 ARs
Win Primer 209 Shotshell 5000/CS (Qty: 5000) Intended Use: 12ga 2 3/4" through 3 1/2" length shells

Powder
Accurate No. 9 (Qty: 4lbs) Intended Use: Hot 357Mag revolver loads and .357Mag lever action
Aliant Unique (Qty: 8lbs) Intended Use: Mainly my 12ga Shotgun plus all my handgun loads
Hodgdon H335 (Qty: 8lbs) Intended Use: Mainly my 5.56 gas piston AR plus other AR-15 style .223 gas impingement ARs

I'm still open to critique as I'm sure this won't be my last order for powders and primers. Thanks again to this cool community for your guidance. I can't wait for this package to arrive!

[7Acres]

I've got Lee 6 cavity molds for 230gr .452 and 158gr .358. Also have the sizing dies for each as well.Over the past year I've collected 50lbs of WW that I've processed into ingots now. While I was waiting on my Thanksgiving turkey to smoke this year I cast my first .45 bullets! Can't wait to load em and shoot em!

[WyrTwister]

I've got Lee 6 cavity molds for 230gr .452 and 158gr .358. Also have the sizing dies for each as well.Over the past year I've collected 50lbs of WW that I've processed into ingots now. While I was waiting on my Thanksgiving turkey to smoke this year I cast my first .45 bullets! Can't wait to load em and shoot em!

Congratulations ! :-)

Going to tumble lube them ?

God bless
Wyr

[7Acres]

Hi Wyr,
The molds I have do not have the micro grooves. They have the traditional wide deep lube grooves. I really want to use the Molly lube recipe from Glen Fryxell's book. But I don't plan on going the lubrisizer route. But so far I have not come a across a method of filling the lube grooves without a lubrisizer. So unless you or someone else can enlighten me on that I probably will be tumble lubing them. Thoughts?

[WyrTwister]

I have a lube-sizer , that I rarely use .

Tumble lubing with LLA or a LLA mix seems to work well with bullets with the traditional lube grooves .

I tumble lube just about all my cast bullets . Not just the ones with the shallow tumble lube grooves .

God bless
Wyr



Hi Wyr,
The molds I have do not have the micro grooves. They have the traditional wide deep lube grooves. I really want to use the Molly lube recipe from Glen Fryxell's book. But I don't plan on going the lubrisizer route. But so far I have not come a across a method of filling the lube grooves without a lubrisizer. So unless you or someone else can enlighten me on that I probably will be tumble lubing them. Thoughts?

[7Acres]

Okay, I'll plan on using the LLA and tumble lubing them. Everybody I've read on here seems to agree it works well. When you refer to an "LLA mix", what would you mix it with and why? Do you have a mix you really like?

[HATCH]

I use unique for all my handgun loads
I also load 22 hornet with unique too.

[Pb Burner]

On the tumble lubing I would suggest looking in the boolit lube section. At the top of the forum you will see the sticky "tumble lubing-made easy". Check it out, very informative and highly recommended. If you dont have LLA yet look at the bottom of any forum page for lsstuff.com, they have "x-lox", a less expensive alternative to LLA, and I understand it to be as good or the same as LLA.
Good luck and have fun!

[WyrTwister]

Okay, I'll plan on using the LLA and tumble lubing them. Everybody I've read on here seems to agree it works well. When you refer to an "LLA mix", what would you mix it with and why? Do you have a mix you really like?


LLA + Johnson Paste Wax + paint thinner in about equal parts .

You only need a thin coat to work . When I first started I gobbed it on thick , twice . This mad the bullets messy & clogs up the seating die . The paint thinner helps this and also makes it dry faster .

Used to , I would TL the bullets before and after sizing and / or gas checking them . Now , if they are not being sized very much , I do so w/o lube . The a lite TL after sizing .

The JPW also accelerates drying , maybe . It contains some solvents that seem to evaporate pretty rapidly . But most of all , the " hard " wax in it makes the JPW actually " dry " . LLA seemed to always stay somewhat sticky .

God bless
Wyr

[r1kk1]

You can also pan lube. LsStuff makes some fine lubes also. I will either pan lube or go the lubrisizer route depending on what I'm doing. Pistol go through my lubrisizer and rifle may or may not.

Take care

r1kk1

[7Acres]

PbBurner, I've got 2 little bottles of LLA that came with my sizing dies. But when those run out I'll consider some x-lox. Wyr, I really like your suggestion and will definitely be mixing the way you mentioned. It looked super thick in those little bottles. r1kk1, nice to see how some folks take a different lubing approach to rifle vs handgun. When you use your lubrisizer for your rifle sizing/lubing do you still use the pan lubes? Or do you go with a traditional lube for rifle lubing?

[r1kk1]

Depends on the length and sometimes diameter of the rifle billet. I have some 530 grain 45 cal bullets that i pan lube than run through a Lee sizer. Short rifle bullets like the 30 carbine go to the lubrisizer. If my alloy runs 1-40 for some of my hunting bullets, I swear the Lyman appears to be rough on them when using their lubrisizer. I think a Star is in my future. I do not have any experience with SAECO especially with long bullets.

I wish LsStuff would bring back their black powder lube.
Take care

r1kk1