3 little wadcutters in a 44 mag case?

[Silvercreek Farmer]

No reason really, just wondering if anyone has done it and how it worked out.

[Bullshop]

I do two round balls in a 44 mag but never did three wc.

[40Super]

There was a GB for casting little discs for a certain pistol caliber a little over 1 year ago, they stacked up to several in a case. Can't remember what caliber or the details, but they did work pretty good IIRC. Someone in on that will chime in I'm sure.

[375RUGER]

I did 1 9mm 115g and 1 92g boolit inside of a speer shot capsule. works quite well.

[rintinglen]

I've done three 75 grain boolits in a 357, but nothing like that yet in 44. However, the post man dropped of a package from NOE Today, and inside there were two molds. One was Chargar's 311=403 clone in 4 cavity. The other is a 2 cavity 432=110 WC. I am looking forward to trying out the 44 WC in multi-ball loads. I hope to post the results here in the future.

[runfiverun]

back in the late 50's early 60's remington used to sell a tri-ball load. [tri-round or triple something]
the little boolits were chevron shaped to stack together in the case they also needed this shape to stay together in flight.
but they were stacked together and took on the shape of one boolit [yeah they were lead]
>>> <shaped something like that with a hollow base.
but with a wad cutter shoulder and crimped over the front ones shoulder.
if not the results were unpredictable on target but two of them usually went somewhere.
shaped like that one would be close to poa and the other two were within an 8" circle at 25 feet or so

[Horace]

Did that.Used lube-sizer to flatten round ball and stack in 44 mag case.Lube with LLA three vertical hits at 25.

Horace

[1Shirt]

Have done 2RB in 38S, and 2 of the 75 gr.WC's in 38S, and 3 in 357 with pretty fair results.
1Shirt!

[youngda9]

I'm just curious...why?

Flat disks don't fly well(or straight for very long), they don't penetrate well...what's the purpose ?

[40Super]

small game, snake load,ect..

[cbrick]

circa 1980, H&G mold #333 done for Dean Grennell for 357m from "From Ingot To Target" by Glen Fryxell, chapter 9.

54686

Rick

[I'll Make Mine]

I'm just curious...why?

Flat disks don't fly well(or straight for very long), they don't penetrate well...what's the purpose ?

When you're shooting at a distance of ten or twenty feet, indoors, holding velocity is a disadvantage -- little, light, flat boolits are far more likely to stop inside a wall than a single big, heavy slug at the same velocity, and something of approximately round ball weight at high subsonic speed will still do a fine job of discouraging a burglar, dog, or whatever -- in fact, I've read claims that multiple simultaneous hits are significantly more effective at stopping an assailant than a single heavy bullet. Get a round that will put three light slugs in a pie plate at 20 feet, you get those multiple hits -- and the lightweight, large area slugs are far less likely to overpentrate.

[Shiloh]

Seen it done in .357 mag.

Guy said watch this and shot six times. looked like close range shotgun blast with a target at ten yards, shredded.

Shiloh

[rintinglen]

A while back I posted some results from my multiball .357 loads. Today, I managed to get a couple hundred NOE 110 grain 432 WC cast up. I sized them .431 to match up with my Redhawk and began the experiment. Weighing the boolits I had cast up showed me they were running pretty close to advertised weight. 5 boolits averaged 111.3 grains. Here's where the first difficulty occured. I could find no published data for a 335 grain wadcutter in 44 magnum cases, much less for a 3 boolit stack weighing 335 grains. So I looked up magnum loads and found the starting load listed for a 330 grain boolit in hogdon's powder manual. 8.0 grains of ww231 yielded 27, 900 psi. I reduced that to 6.9 grains, using the proportions from a service load with a 150 grain bullet versus a target load 38 wad cutter.
The next problem I ran into was that my .431 boolits bulged the case when seated as a wc in my sample dummy round. I had a hard time getting the cartridge to chamber. Back to the drawing board. I reasoned that a smaller boolit would not bulge the case so much, so I rumaged through my sizer box and dug out the .428 sizer I had bought for use with my S&W 544 44-40. I ran 11 boolits through that and then proceeded to load another sample round with one smaller boolit under two normal ones. Dropped into the cylinder like a nickle in a wishing well. Now I was ready, so I loaded one .428 boolit in each of 10 cases after charging them with 6.9 grains of WW 231, then loaded 2 more boolits sized .431 on top and then firmly crimped the stack..
Thursday, i'll head over to the range and try yhem out. There'll be pictures if I can get them uploaded. Stay tuned.

[fcvan]

I haven't loaded multi-loads for .44 but did play with them in the 1980s based on an article from Guns&Ammo. At the time, Multiple Munitions was marketing multi loads as well well as some others. So, I decided to play a little bit.

I have a Lee 358-158 SWC HP mold. I took a boolit and trimmed it to where I could seat a gas check that fit in the driving band. This would be placed in the mold on the HP pin and I could cast small wad cutters. With a check in the first band after the crimp groove the boolit came out about 45 grains. With the gas check in the second band the boolit weighs 25 grains. Casting these little wad cutters one at a time takes time but it is fun.

So, I loaded 3 and 4 25 grain wad cutters into .357 cases with light loads working up to about 900 fps. I also loaded 1, 2, and 3 of the 45 grain wad cutters but didn't care for the heavier weight coupled with the depth I had to seat them. The last load I tried was 2 25 grain wad cutters topped with a 105 SWC. My preference overall was 4 of the 25 grain boolits. At 5 yards they would chew out the center of a B27 target. Good fun!

[HiVelocity]

small game, snake load,etc..

Alot of work, poor accuracy. (tried in 357 Mag). I found out that making "shot shells" worked much better, were more effective at close range, and easier to assemble. Empty primed case, 2 copper gas checks, a charge of 5, 6, or 8 shot equal to the weight of your normal factory bullet, powder charge to accomodate weight of your projectile.

I used these when I lived in Alaska to shoot ptarmigan (grouse).

Just my .02 worth.

HV

[MakeMineA10mm]

I've done 2RBs in 44, and 2 & 3 RB loads in 357. Properly shaped and weighted, 3 stacked short WCs should work fine in 44 Mag.

I made mine originally, back in the 90s for the local pin shoots. With my 357 S&W 686, I did quite well, and there was just the right spread at 10 yards that my aim didn't have to be REAL good... :)

[beagle]

No reason that can't be done. Take a smaller round ball and "bump" it to .429" in a .429" sizer die using a flat TP. Figure a powder charge based on complete weight and cut it back some. I dip mine in alox lube cut with lighter fluid and let dry. Makes a potent close range load. At ranges up to 50 yards, it will maintain a "minute of bad guy" group and close up, it's awesome for snakes and other varmints.

I use my expander plug as a bullet seater for the first two and leave the last one halfway out of the case and crimp into the edge. These loads have to be loaded in stages. Seat the first ball to depth on the whole batch, then come back and seat the second and finally the third and then crimp.

See "Round Ball Loads" article on castpics.

I keep a couple of boxes of 2 ball .38 Special loads around all the time for "domestic needs" here around the farm./beagle

[youngda9]

...in fact, I've read claims that multiple simultaneous hits are significantly more effective at stopping an assailant than a single heavy bullet.
That's odd...because of all the things that I've read the overwhelming consensus is that the only thing that will guarantee an instant stop (especially at pistol velocities) to an assailant is a direct hit to the central nervous system. Anything else and you're just hoping you discourage them. I question if these flat and light projectiles would even penetrate enough to get CNS debilitation with a COM shot. I guess I'm much more concerned with effectively stopping the BG than worrying about all of the what-ifs of overpenetration. I've read far too many stories of bad people (especially on drugs) taking many many hits and still fighting until the blood runs out. An entrance AND an exit hole signifigantly speeds up that process. I don't want to further derail the thread with terminal performance/wounding theory...so I'll bow out of this discussion.

I do see the merits for small close varmints in some rare circumstances.

[cbrick]

youngda9,

Perhaps your forgetting the other aspect of this. Sometimes it's just plain fun to tinker & experiment with such things. :mrgreen:

Rick

[SwedeNelson]

http://noebulletmolds.com/orders/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=37&products_id=134

Swede Nelson

[colt 357]

I seen some what they call improvised load for shot gun. One was a AA battery out of I think it was a .410 shot gun. It key hole after about 20 feet. but i would guees that would hurt like ****
Iraqvetran8888 have some loads that berry show like the cut shells and waxer round for 20 and 12 gauge.
Few others were pennys and dimes.
One of the worse I seen was little small fishing treble hooks out of a 12 gauge shotgun. think of getting them dug out of your back side in the ER.
one last one was rock salt out of a 20 or 12 gauge shot gun dont know if they would be lethal but any of these would make someone reconsider the negative attitude.

[I'll Make Mine]

Rock salt will kill you just as dead as small bird shot at close range.

[Willbird]

There was a company back in the 1980's that sold out of the back of magazines, brand name "multiple munitions". Probably if you were really into the concept you could make a through bored cylinder like some have done for shot revolvers...and use maybe a 444 marlin case in 44 ?? The Taurus Judge 3" if you could find the proper brass case would hold a lot of round balls hehe :-).

[cbrick]

The Taurus Judge 3" if you could find the proper brass case would hold a lot of round balls hehe :-).

Midway sells or at least they used to 410 shotshell brass. I bought a box of these a few years ago and they worked well though a bit pricey.

Rick

[youngda9]

Rock salt will kill you just as dead as small bird shot at close range.Probably more likely to just cause Hypernatremia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypernatremia), resulting in irritability...LOL.

[Willbird]

Midway sells or at least they used to 410 shotshell brass. I bought a box of these a few years ago and they worked well though a bit pricey.

Rick

I have a 410 brass case a guy made from a magnum rifle case of some kind, he turned the belt off. I cannot lay my hands on it but if I recall right it was a 7mm STW. Which would require turning the body .03" or so, but they are pretty thick back there :-).

Bill

[bbqncigars]

In the mid-seventies I developed a triple LWC load for a deputys Bulldog (.44Spl). The boolits were made with a lead RB forced through a honed out Lee sizer. I ended up with three sized to completely fill a Speer shot capsule. Experimentation with different lubes showed that only a coating of moly would lead to all three projectiles separating every time. They made a nice 3" triangle at about ten feet. I gave him some loaded rounds, components and the loading data. He was a happy camper then.

[big dale]

I tried this for a while back in the late 80's while I was a member of a bowling pin shooting club. Got some pretty strange pin action while shooting 3 in 44 mag case in my Redhawk and my blackhawk. The mold was a little-bitty one from Lee and it was a single cavity mold that gave 97 rejects out of each 100 pours. As you can imagine I shelved this as another of my great ideas that turned to caca in my hands and returned to casting up big buckets full of 250 grain Keith boolits.

Have fun with this stuff.

Big Dale

[rintinglen]

550125501355014
As promised, I managed to get over to the range today and test fire the "Triplex" loaded wad cutters. There are two photos of the boolit stack and a loaded round, plus one of the target. The Target reflects 10 shots, each of 3 boolits,fired at 7 yards. The load was 6.9 grains of WW=231 with WLP primers in new Remington brass. The base boolit was sized .428, the two upper boolits were sized.431. They were fired off-hand out of a 7 1/2 inch barrel Ruger Redhawk.

Recoil was not bad, roughly equal to a Skelton Loaded 44 SP, but there was some pronounced primer flattening and cases were sticky when ejected. Next time I try this I will lower the charge down to 6.2 Grains WW 231. It is raining here in SoCal, so I had to shoot indoors and could not use my chronograph. I estimate the velocity at appoximately 850 fps. All three boolits tended to land within an inch of each other, with two boolits very close to gether and the third farther away. The POI was about 2 inches higher than my usual load in this gun, 18.5 grains 2400 under a 429-421 250 grain SWC. There are 26 visible shot holes on the target. At least once, I observed only two shot holes after a shot, indicating that two boolits remained together and impacted together, but after the 6th shot, I could no longer distinguish new shots from old. There was no significant leading.

This loading pretty much duplicates the Remmington multi-ball 357 load, but with heavier individual pellets. That load worked to perfection in the only two shootings I know of in which it was used it. It would be interesting to test this in ballistic gelatin to determine how much penetration we are getting.

[ddixie884]

Two round balls for a Ruger blackhawk pistol, 150grs each sized together in a .452 star sizer, lube fills up the airspace between, and the rb's touch. Crimped over the ogive of the front rb over 8gr Unique. Fired from a Blackhawk hit approx 8in apart vertically at about 40yds.......

[BBGun]

I've loaded and fired many 38 special loads with Speer capsule and three #4 buckshot and some #9 shot added in. It was great fun to shoot targets with. Quite accurate at about 10 yards. I haven't tried on anything but paper so I wonder how the penitration would be.
You're right. It's great fun to "tinker" just because you can.

[1Shirt]

Have to agree with the it is sometimes just fun to tinker with some of the things that reloading offers!
1Shirt!

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Thanks Rintinglen! That was exactly what I was looking for. They sure made some nice clean holes. I'm not surprised with the pressure given the 330 grains of lead and amount of the case the WCs took up.

[rintinglen]

You are welcome--I was interested in trying this and I had just bought a new 110 grain wadcutter from Swede at NOE. This gave me a chance to put it to work. Actually. I think this load is a viable home defense load. "It is more accurate than the target suggests, since I was deliberately moving my aimpoint around to try and get a clear view of the impact, while still keeping in the black for photographic purposes. Those WFN that so many hunters Like? Well here's three of them. I suspect that penetration would be adequate and the resulting tissue dammage massive were you to pop a homebreaker in the sternum with one of these rounds.

[I'll Make Mine]

I suspect that penetration would be adequate and the resulting tissue dammage massive were you to pop a homebreaker in the sternum with one of these rounds.

Unless you got a burglar with a vest, I think you'd avoid putting the police to the trouble of notifying hospitals to look for a perp with a gunshot wound...

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Unless you got a burglar with a vest, I think you'd avoid putting the police to the trouble of notifying hospitals to look for a perp with a gunshot wound...

Even armored, I bet at least 1 out of 18 WCs would find its way home!

[Freischütz]

Back in the 1970s I had a Lee mould that cast .44 wadcutters. I believe they weighed about 116 gr. I used two bullets in some 44 Mag ammo and got groups at 50 ft like rintinglen. I never saved any data but I remeber being impressed by how much case capacity was consumed by bullets.

[clodhopper]

I have beeen playing with 2 86g double ended wadcutters in .357.
The Lee 6 cavity mold came from a group buy about 4 years ago.
With the same charge of 2400 I use with the 357-429 they shoot with about 10 minutes of divergence.
Just in case you are wondering, Both Elmer Keith, and P.O. Ackley's published loads I consider as guides to a place I don't want to go.

[Any Cal.]

I have a 410 brass case a guy made from a magnum rifle case of some kind, he turned the belt off. I cannot lay my hands on it but if I recall right it was a 7mm STW. Which would require turning the body .03" or so, but they are pretty thick back there :-).

Bill

I think .444 Marlin brass will work for .410 shotshell loads.

[I'll Make Mine]

I think .444 Marlin brass will work for .410 shotshell loads.

Dimensionally, it looks mostly okay; the rim is a little undersize and a little thin, but there's plenty there for extraction and the headspace should be okay. Case length at 2.225 is a little short even after you deduct the crimp length (2 3/4" shells are measured with the crimp opened out, but they're 2 1/2" loaded length), but that shouldn't cause trouble in tube magazines or single/double guns; might or might not work in the occasional box magazine bolt action gun.

Of course, Magtech sells .410 brass cases (aka 36 gauge), correctly dimensioned and headstamped (and set up for large pistol primers, though like other Magtech brass they're easily converted to accept 209).

[Bwana]

A couple of decades ago I had access to CCI pistol rounds with their plated bullets. I would pull the 115gr 9mm bullets and flattened them in a .429 swage die. Loaded two in my 44 mag and at 1400fps it was impressive. Penetration was not a problem, and the spread was consistant and predictable,. Did the same thing for my 357 using the 60gr 32 auto plated bullets. Too bad those bullets are so expensive these days and I don't have a ready suppy as I used to.