Euroarms zouave

[Nikkisdad]

Found a new unfired for sale, asking price is 525.00 delivered - is this a good/fair price and also the quality of this brand that is no longer manufactured? Please provide as much info as you can, Thanks Manny

[fouronesix]

That price seems a little high, but in the end, the correct price point is between the seller and the buyer. The Euroarms I've seen run about average for the Italian made repros. Also, you might consider broadening your search (if you haven't already) to include the various Enfields and my favorite within the Civil War era MLs- the 54 cal Mississippi.

[Nikkisdad]

I have looked all over the net, seems like some are trying their best to get as much as they can (can't blame them) but I to am looking for a reasonable deal. Just getting into muskets, have a Shilou Sharps sporter number one and also T/C Hawken 45 cal so I am familiar with black powder stuff. I'll send this seller my offer and see what he thinks of it. I would think that this Euroarms would be a good place to start. Thanks for your reply and advice....regards Manny

[fouronesix]

Give it a go- hope you get it. When you do end up with a rifled musket of some variety check back in. While they usually shoot patched roundballs well, you'll likely want to try some minies. Accurate minie shooting requires a slightly different approach. Plus, you'll probably want to improve the sights found on most muskets to get the greatest accuracy potential out of them. Can share my 2 cents on those subjects when the time comes. Plus, I know there are several serious minie shooters here on the forum to share experience.

[bob208]

check out auction arms they have mini ball rifles for auction. i got a navy arms 63 3ram. for 325.

look at the breach section make sure it is a one pice barrel. not a sleave breach.

[Nikkisdad]

Bought the Euroarms, should be here next week or so. From the pics the owner sent it looks real nice, hopefully it will shoot well also. What bullet mold should I get for it and size. I would think a .577 mold should do? Also, I have seen the Pedersoli greaser and sizer on their web page, where can I purchase these two items, they look really nice and handy. What Lee mold would you recommend for starters....need all the info that I can gather to start.

[fouronesix]

Good! Now the process begins- finding an accurate and friendly combination.

Very soft or near pure lead is needed for minies. The bore twist is usually very slow and similar to a roundball twist. The minie is not stabilized by gyroscopic spin alone- but combination of spin and aerodynamics where the center of gravity is in front of the center of pressure. Stabilized like a badminton shuttle cock.

Patched round balls usually shoot well in slow twist muskets. I shoot .562 RBs with ticking in mine.

The minie skirt is forced into the bore grooves by pressure, so the minie is loaded to about bore diameter. For ease and speed of loading (the reason for the minie design as used 150 years ago) most shooters use a minie about bore diameter to about .001" less than bore diameter. Standard blackpowder charge for a 58 minie load is about 60 gr. FF. Something like Crisco is used as a lube and simply smeared on.

In my 58 rifled muskets, I've found the RCBS North-South Hodgdon Skirmish minie to be the most accurate by far. My Enfield likes the .580 size. All others prefer the .584. I've settled on a charge of about 53 gr FFF black powder for all my loads.

Oh and might add, the particular minie design may depend on your primary goal. If it is accuracy then for sure it may be one of the larger diameter designs. If it is for ease and speed of loading (as required for tactical reasons during a Çivil War battle) then one of the smaller diameter types. I'd imagine one of the minies in the .577-.580 range would be a reasonable compromise. I don't have any experience with the Pedersoli stuff.

The normal issue sights, even on the replicas, are horrible for accurate shooting and generally shoot way high on the low setting at the common range of 50 yards. When you get yours, you'll have a better idea about the sights. You can add a simple split blade fitted over the existing front to raise it and make a lower sight to replace the existing flip-up blades in the rear sight base.

[Nikkisdad]

Can the sites be changed on the Euroarms Zouave musket and without having the gun in front me yet is it easy to swap or? Thanks so much for your input, still trying to decide which mold to get, probably start with a Lee then upgrade to something better that will suit my needs. I will probably just be shooting targets at 50 and 100 yards for starters....Manny

[fouronesix]

I haven't studied a Euroarms close enough to say but most of the replicas have sights similar to the originals. You'll have a better idea when it's in hand. The fronts are usually a simple block and barleycorn blade soldered to barrel. The rear is usually a base secured to the barrel by a screw. Inside the base is one or two L shaped leaves secured by a thru bolt allowing each to be flipped up depending on range. There is usually no windage adjustment for any of these.

With simple tools like hacksaw, small files, drills, some JB Weld epoxy, etc., you can fairly easily modify both the front and rear sights to work better.

The other alternative is to remove or have someone with a torch remove the front (if it is sweated on). Then cut a dovetail both front and rear. That way you can add a simple tall blade front and regular simple muzzleloader type rear. That allows for elevation adjustment by filing down the front and windage adjustment in both front and rear.

I have never had to do the dovetail thing with mine- and would never do it with any of my originals anyway. The elevation adjustment is done by using a tall front blade for filing down later. The trickiest part is getting the windage figured first, then either filing a notch or drilling a peep in the rear blank blade at the location of correct windage. Once a good load is found and the sights set, there will be no need to do any more adjustment. It will require a different sight set up of course if you want to shoot at ranges farther than 100 yds or you can just use the sights as issued.

If I get a chance today I'll take a couple of pics of my sights to give an idea. It really is simpler than it sounds. Many folks who shoot these things for accuracy and competition usually completely re-do the sights. For other re-enactments the rules may dictate original (or replica of original) sights.

OK, added the pics of front and rear modified Zouave sights on the Zoli

[Hanshi]

I don't own a Zouave but do have a finely fitted Euroarms Mississippi rifle in .54. I never got around to trying minies because of the extraordinary accuracy with prb. This rifle is as finely finished as many "custom" rifles I've examined. It's a handsome rifle. I ordered this rifle around 8 years ago from Jarnigans for about $425, IIRC. DGWs wanted $800 at the time. If it's unfired you got a reasonable deal, IMHO.

[fouronesix]

The Mississippi is one of my favorites! I think sometimes overlooked by those just getting into Mexican War/Civil War muskets. I did see one of the replicas that looked really good and unfired sell on gun broker 2-3 months ago for something over 600.

I've had a Lyman 54 cal minie mold since the early 70s. Never used it. Then not too long ago found a Mississippi for it (isn't that the way it works- buy the cheap accoutrements first then look for the expensive rifle to fit :) )
The 54 minies shoot very well in mine along with the PRBs.

[Nikkisdad]

Just received the zouave I was asking about, it is very nice to say the least. Fit, finish and overall appearance is very good. The trigger needs to be tuned somewhat, lot's of creep and pull weight pretty stiff. Looking down the barrel, after cleaning, the rifling seems very shallow you can hardly see it when looking down the barrel, is this normal or? I think for the time being I can live with the sites such as they are until I get her sited in at 50 yards and so on. Kee the info coming I really appreciate it. Regards Manny

[fouronesix]

Sounds good so far.
Yes, the shallow grooves are normal. Because of the nature of the fast-load rifled musket designed for minie ball use on the battlefield, the load components and techniques required for our accurate and paced shooting purposes need special attention. The overall design was intended for simple, fast shooting but not necessarily for the kind of accuracy we've come expect these days.

For accurate shooting- regular bore cleaning is important. That keeps fouling and leading at a minimum- it doesn't take much in the shallow grooves to wreak havoc with rifling skid and poor accuracy. Use near pure lead to help assure full swelling (obturation) of the skirt into the grooves- needed again because of the shallow 3 groove design. Avoid heavy charges that can ruin accuracy by blowing out the skirt at the muzzle. Visualize that minie leaving the muzzle in pristine condition with some but not fast rotation and flying toward the target, stabilized like a slowly rotating shuttlecock. I've found the closer the cast minie is to bore (land to land) diameter, the easier it is for all the above things to fall in place thus the better chance for accuracy. Have fun and post some results after a range session.

[Nikkisdad]

I'll do that when the weather here in Up State NY clears up (usually around May). Just ordered 10lbs of goex 2f (also load for shiloh sharps 45-70) so hopefully it will OK for the zouave. Also ordered the improved minie from Lee @ .578 dia for starters and will size to .577 hope this works out. Keep the info coming I can sure use it....Manny

[fouronesix]

The GOEX FF will work fine. With regular minies a load somewhere between 50-60 gr seems to work well. You may not have to size the 578 minie and may be lucky to get 578 with pure lead. I'd cast a few and see how they fit. Even if they are a little snug- no problem. Just use a regular ball starter and pop them down the bore. I've noticed once the minie gets started in the bore- things loosen up, then no problem pushing on down with a ramrod.

[Nikkisdad]

Will do as suggested, can't wait for the stuff to get here...thanks Manny

[Buckshot]

.............Manny, you'll want to try some different Minie' boolits with your new rifle.

http://www.fototime.com/0744963E3A064B6/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/6BF0D8313CD43F3/standard.jpg

I shot these 500 gr NEI target Minie's over 80.0grs of Goex Express from my P58 Enfield at 50 yards. Right photo has the data on it.

http://www.fototime.com/939F217A98FDFC7/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/C75E453AEFB1E35/standard.jpg

The above target was a quick check between BP and Pyrodex. The Minie used was the modified Lyman as shown in the right photo. A lot of the fun is trying different stuff!

..............Buckshot

[Nikkisdad]

Wow, thanks for the info. I will, after I get started experiment with other loads as suggested. I have to look into getting the trigger worked on, any suggestions here would also be appreciated...thanks again...Manny

[fouronesix]

The triggers on most of these MLs are very simple and, by design, usually fairly heavy. You can polish the surfaces between the trigger itself and the sear lever- that will be obvious when you take the lock and trigger out. Now, the sear nose and the full cock notch in the tumbler is the tricky part. If you are not familiar with doing this work- your best bet is to find someone competent in doing it. The contact angles have to be maintained and the amount of material removed has to be minimal. It's pretty straight forward but can be fouled up- proceed slowly. Very thin, angled ceramic stones or thin, fine diamond files are the tools for the job. It's easy to change the angles or take too much material off.

Of course the trigger and all the parts in the lock should move and rotate freely and those contact surfaces can be easily polished using a flat stone and make sure there is no contact with stock wood by any of the moving parts.

Oh almost forgot. The mainspring will have to be removed to do this work. The best tool is a dedicated vise. Pull hammer to full cock. Place vise on spring and turn the thumbscrew just enough to relieve spring tension. Remove spring. Track of the Wolf sells good ones pretty cheap. Here's the link. http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1038/1/TOOL-VISE