A thought rattling in my brain

[I'll Make Mine]

I was thinking about reloading for my Mosin Nagant the other day, while also thinking how I wish I'd never traded away my XP-100 (twenty-five or so years ago), and the two thoughts collided when I was reminded of the Mosin Nagant based pistols that were made in Russia during and shortly after the October Revolution, with the following result.

I measured the receiver on my Mosin Nagant, and it looks as if I could cut the barrel on one of those to 16 3/4" and install a pistol grip stock as short as the receiver tang and still meet the overall length requirement of 26 inches. With a suitably sculpted stock, that would give me a gun that's legally a rifle (meets both barrel and overall length requirements, and was originally made and imported as a rifle), but handles like a heavy, hard-kicking, and very loud bolt action pistol -- with a five round capacity. The original sight base makes a nice mount for 3/8" dovetail scope rings, and NCStar makes a very usable 2-7x LER scope for under $50 -- do the stock work myself, and I could have a sort-of replacement for that old XP-100 for around $200.

Modifying the original military stock would be the simplest way to deal with things like recoil bolt, magazine/receiver spacing, and interrupter clearance -- the question is, how would I attach the pistol grip portion of the stock to the existing wrist in a manner that wouldn't simply break off from recoil before I'd fired fifty rounds? Also, how would I get the pistol grip close enough to the trigger guard to reach the trigger, without cutting off the socket for the tang screw or making it impossible to remove the trigger guard and magazine? Alternately, how could I make the shortened rifle comfortable and practical to shoot with the original wrist profile? I don't have any problem reaching the trigger with the original stock, but I doubt I could hold the piece against recoil with one hand on that stock and a rifle four or five pounds lighter.

Yes, I know all about the folks who dislike altering vintage military rifles -- but face it, if they're selling for $120 locally, they're not rare, and even if the supply dries up tomorrow (which is fairly unlikely), there are already tens of thousands of them in the US.

[flounderman]

make a bullpup out of it. you can use a longer barrel with less noise, and the balance is better. you use a rod from the trigger you pull to the actual trigger

[Tokarev]

If you download 7.62x54R to fire it like a handgun, accuracy will go down the toilet. MN loves long heavy bullets.

[I'll Make Mine]

make a bullpup out of it. you can use a longer barrel with less noise, and the balance is better. you use a rod from the trigger you pull to the actual trigger

Hmmm. That sounds like an interesting idea; I'd have to run the rod alongside the magazine on one side or the other (or both), and I'd still have to find a way to attach the bullpup pistol grip to the stock, but at least I could bolt it through into the bottom of the barrel channel (just behind the recoil bolt might be the place); I could carve the wrist into a forearm brace (think Wrist Rocket slingshot), and the bullpup layout would also greatly ease operating the bolt without having to take my right hand off the pistol grip. Nice!


If you download 7.62x54R to fire it like a handgun, accuracy will go down the toilet. MN loves long heavy bullets.

Who said anything about loading down? The point of this kind of gun is to be able to fire rifle power rounds in a (functional, if not legal) handgun, have a full power gun that can be carried in a holster of sorts -- same idea behind the XP-100 (especially later, bigger bore versions), T/C Contender and descendants, and other high power single shot pistols. One might use faster powder to reduce muzzle blast and flare in the short barrel, and I certainly wouldn't rule out shooting mouse fart loads in the same gun, but the point is to be able to shoot a full power load in a gun that doesn't hang up on everything I walk past, will fit in a small case, etc.

BTW, for whatever it's worth, my current 91/30 seems reasonably happy with 150 grain surplus, which is far from a "long, heavy" bullet (it does just fine with 203 grain soft point jacketed, too, not surprisingly given it's 9 1/2" twist).

[Tokarev]

I see. You want an 'obrez' with full power round. It's been done countless times in 1920s Russia when the farmers fought food confiscations by the Bolshevik communist food squads.

[I'll Make Mine]

Exactly -- but I don't want to go to Federal prison for making or owning it, and I'd like it to handle more like an XP-100 than like a mare's leg: near-vertical pistol grip, balance not much forward of the hand. It's likely that loading for it will produce "reduced" rounds, in the sense that faster powders will give less velocity loss in a short barrel, and faster powders will pack less propellant energy into the case than slow powders before they reach maximum pressure -- but this is the same thing that led .221 Fireball to use 2400 and similar powders when .223 (designed for a longer barrel) used slower propellant. Powder that burns after the bullet exits the muzzle is just fireworks...