Danish Rolling Block Buffalo Ammo

[Hogpost]

If you use Buffalo Arms 11.7 x 56R ammo or brass (made from .348 Win brass) in your Danish roller, be darn sure it chambers FULLY before pulling the trigger. They swage the oversize brass base down to fit, and it is not always symmetric. I recently tried some of their ammo, and found some of it would only chamber fully if rotated to a specific position, and some would not chamber at all. Unfortunately, I discovered the problem only after pulling the trigger several times on several rounds, when the hammer was stopped by banging onto the tail of the breech block. The result was the creation of a slight burr on the tail of the breechblock which created drag on the hammer. In this condition, I began to have "light strikes" that failed to ding the primer even on reworked & reloaded 45-70 brass I had used in this rifle many times.

I had to disassemble the action, and VERY lightly stone the tail of the breechblock to remove the burr, to restore the action to smooth operation.

I love my Great Dane. She was apparently reamed by the importer long ago for 45-70, allowing me to use full-length 45-70 brass fire-formed the 1st time with a single wrap of teflon tape around the base and a slightly belled-out case mouth, to be sure the case was centered. Never had a problem, very accurate, and lots of fun. (I only use real BP, no substitutes or smokeless)

The BuffArms brass is nice and ready-to-use, but assume some % may be scrap. Just make sure the breech snaps solidly onto the steel, and the hammer rolls smoothly under the breech, before pulling that trigger.

[Chicken Thief]

Originally the Danes was chambered for the 41.5mm~1.63" rimfire case.
The 56mm~2.20" chambering was only used in @ 200 rifles for experiments with powder and bullets when the change to smokeless was under way. The longer case was deemed unfit due to chambering difficulties during fiels conditions. The hammer had to be filed down to aid chambering.
Switching to another powder could allow for the shorter case and it stuck.
The end result is a 51.5mm~2.03" case called the m96 or m97.

The Danish built RB's used barrels made from Krupps steel and was way stronger than the Sheffield barrels usen on the Reminton Rb's delivered from The US of A.
They were altered to centerfire and jacketed in 1896 and the Danish was nominated m/96, The Originals was nominated m/97 and issued special ammo of a weaker loading.

[Chicken Thief]

There is a ton of info regarding chamberings and such if you want.

[Piedmont]

The 56mm~2.20" chambering was only used in @ 200 rifles for experiments with powder and bullets when the change to smokeless was under way. The longer case was deemed unfit due to chambering difficulties during fiels conditions. The hammer had to be filed down to aid chambering.

Chicken Thief, Just how certain of the above are you? I have one of these rifles with a 2.2" chamber.

[Chicken Thief]

But my good friend you dont ;-)

And heres why:

I'll start by decanting me a big cup of red wine, this will take a while.

In 1867 the Danes (but-whooped by the Germans in 1864) had finished trials and the Remington RB was found to be the best suited rifle at the time.
10000 rifles and 1800 carbines were ordered, but Remington was up to their ears in orders to Sweden and several other countries. Long story short the penalty for delivering late was the rights to produce rifles without paying royalties.
So the Danes got blueprints for the rifles and most important for the machines needed to manufacture the guns. Separate machines and 10 tons of copper plate (enough for 1million cartridges) were delivered from Remington for start up of the munitions supply.

Now for the explanation!

5 separate production lines were set up at the start of manufacture. Each leader/master of a production line had to manufacture his own Go-No Go tools and have them verified/controlled against a master set. Can you see where this is going ;-)

Fast forward to 1896 and the conversion to smokeless + jacketed bullets.
Better measuring equipment meant big trouble! With BP and lead, huge variations in barrel diameter is no problemo, but!
As things wound up it was discovered that bores was all over the place and varied from 11,25mm~.443” to 11,75mm~.463”
And here is the big snag, how to make one standard cartridge with any one bullet fit the above mentioned bores? No accuracy in the big ones and way overpressure in the small ones. The remedy was to cut loooong tapered throats that will squeeze size the bullet to fit (.454” nickel clad copper).
Thus some rifles will chamber 45-90 brass without a problem (mine does), but that was never the norm. 51,5mm~2.20” is the correct case length but for the most part a 45-70 with the rim trimmed will do just nice.

I should mention that from 1884 and forward the Danish shooting society got several thousand RB’s for civil training of young men and ex soldiers. They were centerfire while the army still used rimfire rounds. Boolit and powder amount was kept and thus a 46,5mm~1.83” centerfire cartridge was born. The first cases was bought from Germany and featured “extra” large Berdan primers (6,45mm~.210”). A reminiscence from the Mauser brothers theft of ignition system used in the “Russian” Berdan cartridge.
Later on even the Danish Arsenal made cases for the big Berdan primer for the shooting society.

Sorry for the delay, I had to fill my cup with wine.


A rimfire and a centerfire for comparison:
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/R0011090.jpg
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/R0011092.jpg

Shooting club "extra" large Berdan primers at left compared to standard large for the Army at right
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/R0011093.jpg

Same showing boolits
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/R0011095.jpg

WWII Resistance cartridges with shotgun primers
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/R0011094.jpg

Same showing boolits
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/R0011096.jpg

Just goes to show that they did: What they could with what they could get (projectiles was the same as the shooting clubs used, go figure;-) ).

[Chicken Thief]

Here's how big mine will go:
An original compared to my chambering (80grains+ og Swiss #4) with a 500gr Lee boolit
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Skydning/R0011097.jpg

[Piedmont]

Thanks! Of course that 500 grain Lee bullet is probably quite a bit undersized, which helps it seat out some. If I remember correctly these were 1-28" twist so that 500 grain probably isn't going to shoot well anyway. Mine is .466" groove diameter and I shoot .467" boolits in it. I'm ashamed to admit how many years it took me to notice it, but not only is there the big funnel you mentioned, the chamber is like a revolver chamber, not an autopistol or rifle chamber. By that I mean there is no shelf at the end of the brass and the throat in front of that. The funnel starts at the outside of the case and becomes the throat.

[Hogpost]

Wow, Chicken Thief, that's a lot of info on Danish chambering. Not a surprise, I've found similar wide variations in chambering in military BP rifles like Dutch Beaumonts, and even Model 71 Mausers. Generally speaking, the chamber is always 'way generous, to permit chambering of almost anything even with heavy fouling.

I use the Lee 405-grn hollow-base in 1:20 at .460" in my .464" bore; bumps up nicely, good accuracy. But I've never tried to seat it out
to touch the rifling; I will do that now after seeing your comments. Thanks!