In support of magma Engineering

[Dennis Eugene]

You know I'm going to try and say this with out sounding like a butt head and it maybe tough to do. OK so you, and I don't mean you personaly but any one of us, call Magma Eng. for a new washer or what ever and they send one right out to us either free of charge or at very little cost to us. Then the first thing we do is run off and order a sizer die from Lathesmith. granted he makes very fine products and at a better cost than the Star but still why not support the company that not only produces the machine but does such a good job with customer service that almost everyone braggs them up before going else where to shop. Now I mean no slight to Lathesmith and am not trying to undermine his abilty to make a buck in a free market. I just find it kind of sad to see so many people get freebies or help from a company, talk up there service then spend there money elsewhere. This is just something I noticed several years running now and have been wanting to mention it. Dennis

[VHoward]

Thanks for starting the new thread. I understand what your saying. But the price of dies from Magma and the price from Lathesmith is not that far separated. Lathesmaith charges $40 and Magma charges $47.50. I bought my machine from Magma as well as the air cylinder, heated base and bullet feeder. All good quality equipment. I did buy my die from Lathesmaith because he was willing to make it with one row of holes so I wouldn't have to plug the unwanted ones. I don't think Lathesmith has hurt Magmas business, but enhanced it. It gives people a choice And a big plus for me is Both Magma and Lathesmith are American produced products.

[VHoward]

Just one more question for you. Have you bought any aftermarket parts for your car? It's no different from buying dies from Lathesmith. Aftermarket dies.

[Danderdude]

The cost in materials to build a Star looks to be around $50 but probably less. Add in an extra $30-$50 in real labor-hours and then realize that Magma has already made theirs, but can't afford bad press. Their prices are the reason they're not more popular, but they can't justify the venture at anything lower. I doubt they even sell 1 a week. At that kind of volume, you MUST keep your customers happy, because destroying even a few sales with bad press would make a serious dent in business.

[rodsvet]

I'm not sure you could make a Star for $100. If you could then Ballisti-cast would do it and sell theirs for $149, and own the market. I own a small business and can tell you that the cost of the actual parts is the least expensive portion of the sales price. Not raining on anyone's opinion, just my .02, Rod

[Roundnoser]

I think Lathesmith charges 40 dollars shipped (correct me if I'm wrong). And, Magma charges $47 plus shipping. They send it via small flat rate, which is another 5-6 bucks.

I hear what you are saying Dennis. And I would agree with you if I were only buying small replacement parts from Magma here and there. Personally, I have purchased close to $2,000 woth of equipment from them in the last couple of years, so (for me), I figure Lathesmith can get my business for dies, punches, etc. -- Don't get me wrong. Magma makes very nice equipment and they do have good customer service, but I figure I can spread my business around a little.

[Springfield]

You are way off on the cost of making a sizer. 50.00 wouldn't even be an hours worth of time. The castings have to be heated up and pressed onto the lube tube and have to be EXACTLY in the right place. All the parts have to be assembled, the arms installed, all the pins put in place, the plunger installed while compressing the heavy spring in the back. I have bought parts from Magma and repaired a few so I can appreciate the hand work that goes into assembling one of these. I have mostly Star dies with mine but have a couple of Lathesmiths, both work equally well. I don't feel bad about that. Competition is a good thing. I have been in the Magma shop and believe me, they make much more off the casting machines and moulds than the sizer.

[Pertsev]

I use Lathesmith dies AND also buy dies from Magma from time to time.
Lathesmith is a great guy,good turn around and will do that oddball die for you.
Magma is top notch in customer service.Have spent many times on the phone with them trouble shooting a used machine. They are most helpful and kind.
Sometimes a die from Lathesmith is what you need. Sometimes Magma is the one to call.

[captaint]

Dude - really ?? One a week ?? I'd be surprised if they didn't sell 25 a day. It takes a rediculous amount of volume and profit on that volume to run a real business. Payroll, taxes, rent, taxes, taxes on taxes. I do really like their products. And, I do really buy my dies from Lathesmith. I like doing business with the little guys whenever possible. I used to be a little guy in business, some years back. enjoy Mike

[astroskg]

customer service seems to be the highest priority in most buyers minds, that being said, i myself have ordered stuff from Lathesmith, another party that sells Star parts, and magma star, tried to order a Mark VI a month ago but was told product not available for another 3-5 months so made my decision to get a star after reading so many good reviews about the company and the product. i ordered some parts from lathesmith on a tuesday the following Tuesday i received my dies just as promised, the other parts i ordered received them with in a week also, i placed a $500 + order from magma star for the press, heater, air lube, and lube, was told orders ship within the week all items were in stock. great i thought i will get my order in time for my birthday, plenty of time , only needs to be shipped one state over, a week seems reasonable to me to receive and order . a week later i called to check on my order, just to get an update and maybe a tracking number, was told the order hadn't even been processed yet that maybe if i was "real lucky" it would ship maybe this week which of corse will miss my birthday. to say i'm disappointed would be an understatement , i understand machining parts take time, actual labor time and a skilled machinist to work the parts, but to take an order and place the items in a box and ship them when they are sitting on a shelf shouldn't take more than a day. maybe i just ordered at the wrong time of year and they have too many orders to fill and ship but if business is that good than shouldn't another person be hired even temporarily during a busy season, hay i'm buying American trying to spend my $$$ on USA products keeping americans working and supporting there families . guess i have researched and waited for over a year on this product before i ordered one whats another week or two. guess i will wait a little impatiently till it shows up

[HATCH]

I spent $1200 on a Master Caster and a 41 Mag mold.
I used the Master Caster some and had a issue with one cavity (the top one) sticking. They told me to grind the sprue plate or I could purchase some that were already modified.
I was a little pissed off to say the least that I just spend so much money and had to modify something to make it work reliable.


To clarify something
A star die from Magma cost $47.50 PLUS SHIPPING.
A die from Lathesmith is $39 shipped (I believe that's still the case)

Also unless something changed with Magma, they pencil engrave the top of the die with the size while Lathesmith stamps his.

its like everything else that we purchase. Its all about the money.
When i purchase a new size die, I also get a new punch and lock nut (with set screw).
For each size I have a die,punch,and lock nut. that way I can just screw the top punch in and go. No making adjustments.

Magma is just a handful of people (like 10). They aren't a huge company like LEE is. Whenever I have a problem I call and talk directly to the guy that built my Master Caster.
They have a great product but I think its over priced for what it is (both the sizer and the master caster).

And I do own both the sizer and a master caster.
Oh and I own about 12 Magma Molds too so I have spent my share of money with them.

[John Wayne]

A man with ethics... and without grey area.
Hey Dennis I'm sending you a friend request. I hope you'll accept it.

John Wayne

[astroskg]

customer service seems to be the highest priority in most buyers minds, that being said, i myself have ordered stuff from Lathesmith, another party that sells Star parts, and magma star, tried to order a Mark VI a month ago but was told product not available for another 3-5 months so made my decision to get a star after reading so many good reviews about the company and the product. i ordered some parts from lathesmith on a tuesday the following Tuesday i received my dies just as promised, the other parts i ordered received them with in a week also, i placed a $500 + order from magma star for the press, heater, air lube, and lube, was told orders ship within the week all items were in stock. great i thought i will get my order in time for my birthday, plenty of time , only needs to be shipped one state over, a week seems reasonable to me to receive and order . a week later i called to check on my order, just to get an update and maybe a tracking number, was told the order hadn't even been processed yet that maybe if i was "real lucky" it would ship maybe this week which of corse will miss my birthday. to say i'm disappointed would be an understatement , i understand machining parts take time, actual labor time and a skilled machinist to work the parts, but to take an order and place the items in a box and ship them when they are sitting on a shelf shouldn't take more than a day. maybe i just ordered at the wrong time of year and they have too many orders to fill and ship but if business is that good than shouldn't another person be hired even temporarily during a busy season, hay i'm buying American trying to spend my $$$ on USA products keeping americans working and supporting there families . guess i have researched and waited for over a year on this product before i ordered one whats another week or two. guess i will wait a little impatiently till it shows up

guess i just needed to wait a couple more days items arrived and are already set up and running

[Dennis Eugene]

Just another word or two on the subject from my point of view. I understand that there are a lot of folks buying there products new and spending alot of money on them. I guess I was more talking about the ones of us who have purchased used products. Both my star sizers were purchased used and I went to there web site and downloaded and printed out there manual. Which they very easily could have circumvented and forced me into buying or stealing a reprint from someone else who had already purchased or received one from them. It seems there are quite a few of us who buy used, call and get help,free advice and often free parts to get said stars up and running then run out and buy the less expensive dies and such else where. Remember this company has once gone to the brink of complete collapse and if they ever do go completely under it will be our loss. I'm sure a lot of people have spent much more money there than I but I do buy my dies from Star,as I don't need much and won't be buying much it's the least I can do. Yeah maybe I should have bought new from magma but when I look over my loading bench it amazes me how the majority of my gear is second/third hand. Dennis

[6bg6ga]

I guess what it boils down to for me is where can I get the best value and quality for my money. With all respect no one is going to tell me who I should purchase a product from. I like the Magma sizer I bought. I put together the air cylinder, and heated base with PID control. The reason I put these items on my Magma instead of purchasing them from Magma is quite simple. I got the air cylinder and regulator cheaper and the quality is just as good if not better. The Heated base is a piece of 6061-T6 aluminum and the heater is a 300 watt unit. The control is a one I put together that has PID control and stays within + or - 1 degree. Everything I bought ended up costing less that what it would of if I had purchased it from Magma. Free washer or free part you say? Didn't happen for me.... overpriced piston, screw, and lock washer. The bullet feeder I purchased from Magma because I didn't have time to make one on the mill. I find that Magma doesn't answer emails anymore but they sure did when I inquired about the sizer before I purchased from them.

I will continue to purchase my dies from Lathesmith and the reasons are simple... he does custom items, his work is without question, the work is done when he promised it would be. The hardness of his dies is better than that of Magma.

Ballisti-cast will answer my emails and phone calls. The quality of their designs and work is superior in my opinion. I have a Mark VI and a Mark IV on order. If I had it to do over again I would not have purchased my first sizer from Magma but then again that is just my opinion.

The reason there are different car manufacturers is that not all cars appeal to everyone. One person may want a Dodge and another a Chevy. Personally I would take the Chevy everytime but others might choose something else. This is a case of buy what you want not what others think you should buy or want you to buy.

[Kent Fowler]

Lathesmith could very well be the reason Magma's dies are only 47.00. If it weren't Stillwells early competition against Star and now Lathesmiths, I can see Magma getting 57.00 or more for them. Obviously, Magma doesn't care about competition from Lathesmith or they would seriously drop the price of their dies and put him out of business. Or try to, if what I'm hearing about Lathesmiths dies being better is true. That being said, monopolies are no good for we consumers. For the record, I bought my Star new from Magma with the die, heater and bullet feeder but I plan on giving Lathesmith some of my business and maybe all of it if I find he has a superior product..

[ballisti-cast]

As far as it goes when you call for tech support on the phone and order a few dollars worth of parts it pays for the phone call. If you order something from Lathesmith, you spend your time on the phone/email with him and he's the one you call if you need help with the part.

[John Wayne]

Now there's a surprise for ya. Ballisti-cast supporting Lathesmith both of whom are in direct competition with Magma. And doing it in the STAR sub-forum. That is un-argueably a complete lack of ethics and integrity.

[VHoward]

This is a sub-forum set up by cast boolits for star machines. Magma does not participate in or control it. How is it a lack of ethics to offer things to people that they want? I can see where you would think that about Balisticast since he produces an entire machine that competes with the star, but not Lathesmith who only makes dies, punches and roller handles for the star.

[6bg6ga]

Gentlemen,

There is enough pie for everyone. What do you say that for the sake of the holidays we just give it a rest?

[Springfield]

Ballisti-cast uses Star dies also, so he was also saying buy Lathesmith instead of his stuff if you want to. Can't get much more customer friendly that that.

[ballisti-cast]

Ballisti-cast uses Star dies also, so he was also saying buy Lathesmith instead of his stuff if you want to. Can't get much more customer friendly that that.

Exactly. We are not trying to boast our product here. We hold good relationships with both Lathesmith and Magma, simply making the statement about how customer service actually works.

[6bg6ga]

Now there's a surprise for ya. Ballisti-cast supporting Lathesmith both of whom are in direct competition with Magma. And doing it in the STAR sub-forum. That is un-argueably a complete lack of ethics and integrity.

An easy solution would be to change the title of the sub-forum to the star/magma and Ballisti-cast bullet sizer lubricator corner. This would take into consideration the star/magma products as well as the Ballisti-cast products and maybe the crying would stop.
A person or company should be able to buy or support who the hell they want to. I have counted a number of times when I have walked into a place of business looking for a particular part or product only to be told they were out or had some on order. The companies that really stand out in my mind will tell me that they are out and do have product on order but if I am needing something right away then the XYZ company down the street might be worth checking to see if they have any in stock. It takes a company that has the goal of customer appreciation and satisfaction to come to the realization that by sending a customer elsewhere that customer will remember and will check with you first when needing something additional.