44WCFrustrations

[helice]

Gentlemen,
I need the kindness of your help. Years back I purchased an A.Uberti SAA clone with 2 cylinders, one 44 Mag. (Yes. :-? That's right. 44 Mag. It says so on the cylinder and it says so on the barrel.:)) and the other in 44WCF. I have made a couple failed attempts to reload for the 44-40 cylinder but I always run into a problem.
1. The 44-40 is only reloaded with cast. I use range scrap/wheel weight mix of about 50/50 and all my loads were to be kept very mild, < 700'/s.
2. Boolits are sized in a Lee push thru that says .427 but boolits squeeze to nearer .428 in a dial caliper. This is so for the Lee tumble lube as well as the LBT Ogival wadcutter.
3. Cases are sized in a Lee die and once sized they fit in the chambers of the 44-40 cylinder just fine.
4. Once I stick a boolit in the case, sized as above stated, the case will not fit into the chamber. Case sticks out about a quarter of an inch i.e. the neck of the case won't chamber.

I like this little revolver and I especially like the 44 WCF. What do I gotta do to get this thing functioning with my handloads?

I thank you for your input.
Karl

[bigboredad]

do you know what the cylinder throats are actually sized to. I ran into the same situation with one of my .45's. The bullets had to be sized exactly to .452 or i had the above problem. You could also make up a dummy and seat the bullet a bit deeper

[helice]

Thanks bigbore
I had to ream out the cylinder throats on a couple of Rugers but this Uberti doesn't seem to be a throat problem. It seem to me that the chamber neck is just too dang tight. If I get a boolit that's .426 or .425 so it fits the chamber then it'll rattle down the barrel and print sideways holes in the paper, and paterns instead of groups. It shoots really nice with the 44 Mag cylinder using 44 Special cases and boolits sized .430.

[Piedmont]

Helice, You are guessing and assuming some things, for instance we don't know a .426 will "rattle down the barrel" unless you actually slugged the barrel and left that little piece of information out. Seat your ogival wadcutter so all the bearing surface is in the case to see if that is part of your problem. Those long front band bullets can mess up chambering.

Slug your barrel. Slug your chamber mouths. Then we will have something to work with. You may need to have your cylinder throats and chamber necks reamed but we can't know that until we have some solid dimensions. Your fix might be as simple as loading a really soft cast .426 or .427" bullet and bumping it up with your powder charge, but take some measurements or have someone with a micrometer and knowledge and soft cast roundballs or slugs determine what we are working with.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

I had a similar problem in the .38, turned out it was my 120 gr boolit mold design crimp groove was too shallow and my seater was slightly buldging the brass at the crimp. This .38 worked with my 150 gr boolit mold.

[scattershot]

Sounds like the cylinder was cut for proper 44/40 specs, which calls for a .426/.427 bullet. When you try to looad a .430 .44mag bullet, it's too tight. maybe if you used a 44/40 bullet cast soft, it would expand to fit the rifling. Worth a try, anyway. If it were mine, I'd just try the proper bullet first, and then have the cylinder reamed if that doesn't work.

Good luck!

[smkummer]

Call Lee and see if they will exchange the sizer for one that actually sizes to .427 or smaller. It appears if your bullet is smaller, your problem may be solved. Your caliper probably has a .001 deviation also. I will soon be loading 44-40 for a 3rd Colt SAA and will be using the Lee sizer on a Lee 44-200 FP bullet. Hope I can get it to feed... I know at one time Colt used the same bore diameter of .427 for both 44 special and 44-40. The 44 special Colt SAA loves .429 bullets and is as accurate as any SAA can be.

[fouronesix]

helice,
You didn't state it in the OP so I'm guessing here. Did you resized some 44 Mag brass in the 44-40 sizer then seat some 44-40 bullets then try to chamber the round in the 44-40 cylinder? If so that may be your problem. While the outside dimensions of the 44 Mag and 44-40 case are very close, the wall thicknesses are very different. The 44 Mag case wall is much thicker than the 44-40 case wall. If that is the issue here then try some 44-40 cases. If not then back to the drawing board as others have posted.

[DaveCampbell]

I have had the same problem with my Colts. Here's my theory and what I've done to fix it: First, .44-40 WCF brass is quite thin and soft toward the case mouth. I typically use the least amount of belling that will allow me to start the boolit. My theory is that as the boolit is seated, it pushes back on the case mouth and in essence pushes the tapered section out slightly. To be honest, I have not measured this--should probably do that the next batch. This would prevent full seating in the firearm. Interestingly, these rounds still chamber nicely in my Uberti 1873. Too, not every round is so afflicted.

My solution: I simply run each loaded round through the resizing die. Of course, you'll have to remove the decapping pin if you normally decap while resizing. Rounds will chamber perfectly.

Admittedly, this adds an extra step to the loading process, but it has worked for me. YMMV.

Dave

[helice]

Sorry forr being so quiet. Thanksgiving bit into my time.
1st off. The Gun has two cylinders. I'm not sizing 44mag to fit the 44-40. I use 44-40 brass in the 44-40 cylinder and 44special and 44 mag brass in the 44 mag cylinder. 44Mag brass is very different from 44-40.
2nd. Bore is .429. Cylinder is 427.
3rd. The Ogival wadcutter (OWC) is seated to the crimp groove and lightly crimped in said groove by the Lee seating die . I don't bell the case much cause the cases are mighty thin. When the OGC is seated in the case the neck diameter of the dummy ctg is .444". This dummy ctg can be pressed into the cylinder with my thumb, cylinder not in the revolver. It won't drop all the way into the chamber on its own but definitely needs a push from behind. I assume that this is telling me I'm at the limit of neck thickness. So...
4. I took a sized and decapped case and wrapped two wraps of scotch tape around the neck. The neck diameter read .444" on the dial caliper. (How luck can I get?) Again I have to press this case into each cylinder with my thumb.
I therefore assume that .443 is about as big as I can manage in the chambers cut in this cylinder unless I decide to use thumb power to load the thing.
I intend to cast up some Lee 200 RFs on a mould I traded for here. I wanted this mould for the 44-40. I'll see if Lee's mould will size down enough to work a bit more smoothly.
Again, thanks for all your input. I'm here cause I have a lot to learn and I appreciate all the help.

[fouronesix]

OK, 44-40 brass, that's good. Also, you need to review the terminology and definitions like "cylinder", "bore", "groove", "chamber", "throat".

You need to use bullets that are sized to the groove diameter of the bore up to about .001" larger than groove diameter. You need to have the cylinder chambers reamed so loaded cartridges will drop in. You also need to make sure the cylinder throats are reamed so the correct sized bullets are a near zero tolerance slip fit.

If the cylinder throats are smaller than the bore's groove diameter there is little hope for good results because undersized bullets are being fired down the bore.

[helice]

I spent the afternoon casting a few Lee 200 RF boolits. I ran them thru the 450 to fill the groves and then thru the Lee push thru to size them down to .427". I have made a dummy ctg. with that boolit and I am all smiles. I will make a couple more to make sure this is not a fluke but this is starting to look like a great boolit for the 44-40.
Thanks for all the help.
Karl[smilie=s:

[Wayne Smith]

Bore is .429" Cylinder is .427" The only chance you will have getting that combination to work is to use a very soft boolit and give it a kick in the pants to bump up and fit that bore. Or have your chambers reamed.

[220swiftfn]

Bore is .429" Cylinder is .427" The only chance you will have getting that combination to work is to use a very soft boolit and give it a kick in the pants to bump up and fit that bore. Or have your chambers reamed.

Either that, or a hollowbase mold.....


Dan

[Brad Phillips]

I use the lee 200 grn rn in my 44-40.

Depending on your sizing die, 44-40 bullets (that are heavy for caliber) sometimes can't be seated too deep in the case as the bullet will flatten the "ring" that is noticeable on the cases. Look at some old factory stuff and you will see a very obvious ring on the case.

[bigboredad]

if he does need to ream his tools cylindersmith only does .45's now so he may be better off getting the reamer from brownells. I'm not sure what a smith would charge to do it but I bet it would be cheaper to do it himself and either keep the reamer for future use on his or some friends guns or He could sell it and get most of his cash back I would think