Mystery alloy ? Linotype ?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Recently I purchased about 500 lbs of scrap Lead from a old timer who use to cast boolits ...10 or 20 or 30 years ago, First of all, he told me "it was all good soft lead"...while most of it was, there were some large ingots that are definately a harder alloy...most of which I believe is vintage WW (score !), because of the BHN measurements and how they melted and cast in my ingot molds.

But there was also several small Dome shaped ingots (30 lbs worth). These felt and looked like plumbing pipe solder. I came to that conclusion quickly because this old guy was aware of Tin and it's value and how much tin is typically in solder...and he told me how to keep the temp low to melt solder off of Lead pipe joints...btw, there was some Lead pipe with joints in the purchase.

Anyway, back to the small Dome shaped mystery ingots, I smelted them in one group but separate from the rest of the stuff and poured small ingots. The next day I checked BHN, it was 19.
I checked a plumbing solder ingot, it was 12. I then re-read the lasc.us cast bullet notes link and it said the linotype is about 19.

Now the strangeness really starts.
I cast some 22 boolits with this "Dome shaped mystery ingots" alloy.

The first one is a Herters pointy 22475. (similar to Lyman 225450)
at 24 hours after casting,
BHN=17
size .230" and weight 42gr.
when I cast these with my usual rifle alloy of 2/3WW & 1/3 Lino,
size .227 and weight 47.5gr.

The second one is a lyman 225438.
at 24 hours after casting,
BHN=15
size .229 and weight 36gr.
when I cast these with my usual rifle alloy of 2/3WW & 1/3 Lino,
size .226 and weight 40gr.

I've never cast with straight lino, will there be that much difference in size and weight with that small of a boolit ?

what could this alloy be ?

lastly, all BHN measurements were taken with a lee hardness tester, and yes I realize they need to be taken with a grain of salt, although I'm fairly happy with my testing so far in comparison to the real world (given a point or two).

Thanks for any input you might want to share,
Jon

[cbrick]

The 225438 is 10% lighter and 1.5% bigger, seems like a lot for a 22 boolit. Any chance you got a melting temp for the mystery dome alloy vs your usual alloy?

Seems it has to be a high Sb/Sn alloy given the BHN & as cast diameter. How did they fall from the mold, any sticking? It could well be lino.

Rick

[leadman]

Lino will melt all at once at 473' IIRC. I melted about 100# making alloy this last couple of days.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I don't have a melt temp.
the mold had no problems dropping boolits.
Jon

[madsenshooter]

JonB, do your dome shaped ingots have an Indian head on them?

[runfiverun]

jon i gotta say it..
if you have lino to mix with your ww's you have enough to make a direct comparison to the mystery metal with.

always keep a sample of some known alloys on hand to compare future "finds" against.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

JonB, do your dome shaped ingots have an Indian head on them?

They were completely unmarked...I suspect they were the shape of a plumbers crucible.

[Defcon-One]

Based on hardness alone, I'd say Linotype is a good bet. I agree with others here, melt a small sample. If it melts under 500 degress and really quickly once it gets there (straight from solid to liquid with no slushy state) then I'd assume that it is Linotype.

Also, a 1 lb. plus Linotype ingot if left to cool completely without moving it, will have a slight rippling effect on the top of the ingot once cooled. Something to do with contraction and the way it cools from the outside in causes this. Once you have seen it before you can recognize it. (Top meaning upside in the mold, which is really the bottom of the ingot!)

Sounds like a great find with a bit of everything so that you can make any alloy that you want!

DC-1

[madsenshooter]

I see, reason I was wondering is your weight difference is close to what I see with a babbitt I use that has a 10% Sn content. It would be harder though, 23bhn, but maybe not 1 day after casting.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

jon i gotta say it..
if you have lino to mix with your ww's you have enough to make a direct comparison to the mystery metal with.

always keep a sample of some known alloys on hand to compare future "finds" against.

Yes, I do have samples...and I will do some melting temps and casting of known linotype, when I get "TUIT", but I left this project where I stated in the OP, and was hoping my hints would trigger another members knowledge of, Heck yeah, that's Linotype...or something on that manner. I didn't think Linotype would increase size that much, and weigh that much less. I suppose there could be other factors, While I didn't think I was running too hot, maybe I was running too hot for that alloy. I did notice that the Dome ingot alloy was liquid under 500º, unlike most of my other alloys that I've cast with, but I didn't take the time to observe the exact liqiudus temp. I ran the pot up to 700º according to my notes, and then let it cool down to 650-675...SO I was at least 150º over liquidus, maybe 200º and Gear always says to cast at 100 over liquidus.
maybe tomorrow I'll get time to experiment.
Jon

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I see, reason I was wondering is your weight difference is close to what I see with a babbitt I use that has a 10% Sn content. It would be harder though, 23bhn, but maybe not 1 day after casting.

madsen, that is great info,
thanks,
Jon

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

OK, I did a little more experimenting as per suggested by R5R.
Starting with...I closely watched melt temps.

Melt temp of My Lino with My Lyman thermometer is 470º.
as Defcon-One mentioned, no slushy state.

Melt temp of dome ingot alloy, slightly slushy 410º, fully liquidus 430º

I cast some of the same boolits with each alloy at the proper temps (about 100º over liquidus).

Herters 22475
Lino@620º, 46gr., .229"
Dome ingot@560º, 42gr., .230"
WW2/3-Lino1/3@675º, 47.5gr., .227"

Lyman 225438
Lino@620º, 39.5gr., .229
dome ingot@560º, 37.3gr., .229
WW2/3-Lino1/3@675º, 40gr., .226"

So maybe this alloy is some kind of Babbit ?
I'll post some 24 hours BHN measurements tomorrow.
thanks,
Jon

[Lloyd Smale]

hard to say but id guess it could be your testing is a bit out of calibration as most plumbers lead ive tested tests closer to 6-8bhn.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Lloyd,
While at first I thought it might be Plumbing solder,
I never thought it was Plumbers Lead.
There seems to be alot of tin in this.
and now with closely watching the melt temp, it is something different for sure.

I wish there was a good definition of Babbit,
it seems that Babbit can be one of many formulas.
Jon

[madsenshooter]

Sure is a bunch, the one I use is known as Stonewall Babbitt, 10%SN, 14.75%SB, .25%Cu, .50%As, 74.5%Pb. Yours must have about the same amount of tin. When compared to linotype, as you have done, the Stonewall is also about .001" over. Gripping a spitzer cast with Stonewall is very hard to do because it's so slick, but then that's ladle cast ones. They try to squirt out of your grip.