Radon mitigation

[richhodg66]

Long story short, I'm in the process of buying a nice house close to where I work now and in the course of the home inspection I payed for, it came out that it has high radon readings.

Now I'm not the type to fear every little thing that comes along, but I've heard and read enough about this stuff and plan to be in the house about 15-16 years so I'm concerned. The guy who did the inspection gave a rough estimate of between $900-$1250 on fixing the problem if I hire someone out to do it. As I understand it, it really is drilling into the gound and installing a vent fan and pipe to kind of create an overpresure to route this stuff out of the house which seems straightforward enough.

Does the cost estimate sound about right? The owner has offered to put up $600 against the cost of doing it (quite frankly, I could afford to do it and like the house well enough that I most likely would), but I seriously doubt he's gonna get it sold with the problem, in fact, the VA still needs to do their appraisal and a high radon reading if they test for it would most likely be a show stopper.

Thoughts? I've only ever bought one house in my life and that was 18 years ago. I'm not in the construction line of work and really don't know a lot more about this than just what a few quick google searches has revealed.

[WILCO]

http://www.epa.gov/radon/pubs/consguid.html

http://www.fixradon.com/techniques.html

Who pays for radon mitigation?: http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/realestate/msg0616221519277.html?19

http://www.radonrepair.com/faq/

http://www.wpb-radon.com/radon_FAQ.html


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[Ickisrulz]

Is the house in Colorado? 20 years ago the USAF did a service wide radon assement. The only high readings were in Colorado Springs and Denver.

[44man]

The stuff is a big problem. There are many places in VA with the stuff and one house I looked at had a fan blowing up out of the basement into the rest of the house----NO WAY.
I bought a house in the eastern panhandle of WV and ran a test. I found no Radon at all.
The radiation will give your family cancer.
The price sounds good to me but make sure it is enough work to do the job. It might cost more to do it right so please research the fixes.

[richhodg66]

Thanks for the responses. The realtor has a guy who does this work, so I'm gonna get him in there and give me a no kidding answer about cost.

I really do think the seller ought to foot the whole bill for this, but I also don't want to cut my nose off to spite my face and lose the house over a few hundred bucks.

This house we've been living in for the past 18 years has never been tested that I can recall, now I'm kinda worried.

[Wayne Smith]

It is a problem in New England. It is released from the rock under the house, you cannot remove the source. Other than a sheet of lead under the house (how long would that last for any of us??) diverting the flow is the best solution.

[375RUGER]

I don't know how you are supposed to "fix" radon. It is a naturally occuring gas that comes from the earth. If it is in the house-open the doors it will leave. It has a high affinity for synthetic fabrics, cotton not so much.
Since it usually comes in through the basement, they only reasonable way to get it out is to exhaust the basement and should keep it out of the rest of the house.
Opening the house for a few days should be enough to get it out of the carpets and other synthetic stuff it can attach to.

[Bad Water Bill]

If you own a house and want to sell it YOU must make it sellable.

If you do not or can not afford to fix the problem YOU lower the price.

[shooter93]

A couple things you need to know first , and some things depend on the age of the house.......are they reading the basement and the first and second floors? It is not uncommon to have high readings in the basement and upstairs test virtually nothing. If you're not using the basement much if nothing else this would give you some time to install a system..... Secondly....find out what was used beneath the basement slab. For years we've used nothing but clean 2B stone. If that was used then basically you drill one or two holes (this depends on the size of the slab) for a 4 inch schedule 40 pipe to go into, it has to enter the stone base. You then run the pipe up the wall installing a fan that fits the pipe along the way and exit the house at the appropriate place. this will cause a negative pressure under the slab which is generally enough to mitigate it. If the stone under the slab is crushed fill or no stone at all this complicates the matter. Those estimates are about wht it runs around here but if you're handy it's not that big of a job. I hope I explained this well enough and it helps.....also...again around here....it is common for the seller and the buyer to split the cost as it's not required that the buyer fix it.

[imashooter2]

No way would I buy a house where I had to pay a grand to install a system to pump my heated / cooled air out into the environment for the 15 years I planned to live there...

[richhodg66]

The reading was in the basement. With what the owner is paying the cost of the job for me will be minimal. Got in touch with the best guy in Topeka for doing this according to several people in the business so it's gonna get done.

The basement of this house is awsome and is where I'll be doing all my reloading and gun work so it's important to me. I plan on spending a lot of my free time down there.

[montana_charlie]

The realtor has a guy who does this work, so I'm gonna get him in there and give me a no kidding answer about cost.
I won't have a soil test done by a guy who sells fertilizer ... and if the realtor chose the guy who did the inspection, I would get a second opinion on that radon test.

CM

[Superfly]

I need to get my house tested Has anybody else done a home test???

[richhodg66]

The home inspector was a guy I chose, realtor had nothing to do with it, in fact, she didn't even know I had called him and ordered it. The guy and his company have a good reputation in town and he was very thorough and systematic.

Not real sure about the home tests and as I'm learning, a lot of things can affect readings. It's apparently common enough that I think it a good idea to check out a place you're gonna live a while.

[geargnasher]

I just read the other day that radon gas is the #1 known cause of lung cancer in the US. If that's true, I wonder why all the hoopla is directed toward the smokers......

Anyway, radon seems to be nasty stuff, I hope it works out for you. I cracked a big grin when Shooter93 mentioned the possibility of you not spending much time there. A boolit caster/reloader buying a house with a basement? Where else are you supposed to play????

Gear

[MT Gianni]

No way would I buy a house where I had to pay a grand to install a system to pump my heated / cooled air out into the environment for the 15 years I planned to live there...

To do it right you pump air out of below the basement slab floor, not heated or cooled air.

[Bad Water Bill]

I just read the other day that radon gas is the #1 known cause of lung cancer in the US. If that's true, I wonder why all the hoopla is directed toward the smokers......

Gear

They need a whipping boy.

Many years ago I was in the waiting room when a MD told the parents their 9 year old son had lung cancer with 6 weeks to go.

That is impossible said the mother. We will not even associate with anyone that smokes.

The DR looked her in the eye and said "Mam we really do not what actually causes cancer, smoking is only one thing we are looking at."

Just look at all of the taxes they can add onto a pack of smokes because the smokers can not fight back.

If more information was made available about Radon many towns might not be able to sell even one house.

[waksupi]

I recently had a bit of experience with this. My mom was selling a house, and needed the testing done. The realtor wanted over $1000 to get it done. I did some checking, and found there are test kits available from the county for around $15.

[geargnasher]

They need a whipping boy.

Many years ago I was in the waiting room when a MD told the parents their 9 year old son had lung cancer with 6 weeks to go.

That is impossible said the mother. We will not even associate with anyone that smokes.

The DR looked her in the eye and said "Mam we really do not what actually causes cancer, smoking is only one thing we are looking at."

Just look at all of the taxes they can add onto a pack of smokes because the smokers can not fight back.

If more information was made available about Radon many towns might not be able to sell even one house.

Yep, follow the money trail to the answer.

Not living in a radon-prone area, I don't know much about it and figured it was just another moneymaker for sensationalists and insurance companies, but apparently it's every bit as much of a concern as it's made out to be or probably even worse than made out to be due to the effect on the real estate market. I even saw "radon detectors" that do constant monitoring like smoke or CO alarms in the section of my local hardware store where I buy lead test wipes. If I had a known issue with Radon I'd sure do some research and get a monitor if having one isn't part of the mitigation routine.

Gear

[Bad Water Bill]

From what I have read the best thing to do is have some sort of exhaust fan blowing basement air OUTSIDE 24-7-365.

[imashooter2]

To do it right you pump air out of below the basement slab floor, not heated or cooled air.

Those systems work by creating negative pressure to pull indoor heated / cooled air through the same cracks and leaks in the foundation that would allow the gas into the home.

[Wayne Smith]

I just read the other day that radon gas is the #1 known cause of lung cancer in the US. If that's true, I wonder why all the hoopla is directed toward the smokers......

Anyway, radon seems to be nasty stuff, I hope it works out for you. I cracked a big grin when Shooter93 mentioned the possibility of you not spending much time there. A boolit caster/reloader buying a house with a basement? Where else are you supposed to play????

Gear

Aahh, Gear, you don't live around here! If I had a basement I'd have a swimming pool under my house. OTH, we are above a couple of miles of sandstone so there is no possibility of radon, so my geologist wife tells me.

I have to play in the garage.

[44man]

Radon can vary in a few miles. The source is underground of course.
Testing is real cheap.
Some worry about casting and lead but it is such a small concern compared to radon.

[MT Gianni]

30 miles from me are 4 or 5 old mines. They are now "health mines' where folks come and pay from all over the world to spend a week in a radon rich environment. They leave feeling much less pain than what they arrived with.

[richhodg66]

Well, the crew is coming Monday to install the mitigation stuff. Says it'll cost about $950 so the seller's offer to pay $600 will take care of most of it. Part of the cost is for a monitor to make sure it keeps doing what it's supposedto be doing.

I never smoked, but I think it's been proven thatit is definitely a contributor to lung and other types of cancers. Maybe the combination of smoking and radon exposure is what causes lung cancer?? Not real sure, but I want to take any reasonably prudent measures. I don't want to live to be 100, but I sure don't want to spend my 70s battling lung cancer.

[shooter93]

Radon is pretty much everywhere Gear.....but if your soil or underlying layers aren't rocky it's generally not a problem. A lot of limestone in my area so many people have it in the basement only. Where I built it was 4 feet of topsoil and 10 feet of clays. You could put all the rocks from my foundation in a 5 gallon bucket so no trouble. Like I said if there is clean stone under the slap a very simple pipe system will work well.....where else does a shooter play Gear????.....my loading room is on the second floor next to the master bedroom. I can cast there using a window fan but I usually cast in my shop. My wife doesn't shoot but she understands an addict.....smiles.

[shooter93]

One more thing Rich....I don't know how high your readings are or if radon is common in your area but if you're on a well you may want the water checked too if that's the case. Ingesting radon doesn't apper to cause trouble but there are studies being done on the effects of breathing in steam such as showering.

[richhodg66]

No well, it'll be in Topeka. Much as I never thought I would, I'm moving from the sticks into a city. Gotta be closer to the job, but the house I'm in is payed for and I should be able to spend the time and money to do some renovations and such to it and move back into it after second retirement in 15-16 years, at least that's the plan for now. I am kind of looking forward to it, all my loading for a long time has been in my non-climate controlled barn which is a real challenge at certain times of the year. This new house has the basement and a screen porch in the backyard for casting, so I will be a lot more comfortable doing it. It will have less space for motorcycles, but I think I can still deal with it.

The radon rating was 14 when he took it during the inspection. The EPA says 4 is the highest safe reading and most say that's really too high, so yeah, it was a problem.

[rexherring]

Radon is a common gas here in this end of our state. I work for the health department as an Environmental Health Practitioner and get weekly calls on it. Seal all cracks in the concrete with a poly caulk if you can get to the cracks. Dig a hole in the corner as if you would a sump pump, a perforated pipe in the hole (usully 4 inch pvc)and surround with rock, seal the hole up and vent it to the outside. Install an efficient exhaust fan on the pipe that you can get online for this purpose. It will pull the radon out from under the cement slab and will also help remove moisture in musty basements. It will take some time for it to start drying out the subsoil under the cement slab but it will.

[L1A1Rocker]

As I recall, radon was not an issue until we switched to energy effecient "green" houses.

[tall grass]

richhodg66

Doc Fatley, professor of chemistry at Kansas State, told us in class that you would have to get down and suck the air right off of the floor to get radon poisoning, it is that heavy (just like mercury and lead fumes). I'm not saying that radon isn't a problem but knowing that it is heavy will help to know how to manage it best. I wonder how much the clothes dryer mitigates.

Jim

[Charlie Two Tracks]

I have thought about getting our house tested but didn't know what I would do if it tested positive. I have an old brick walled basement..........

[MT Gianni]

If you plan on selling and know that you have had radon issues you must disclose the facts as you know them. If you don't know what you have you cannot be held liable.

[rexherring]

richhodg66

Doc Fatley, professor of chemistry at Kansas State, told us in class that you would have to get down and suck the air right off of the floor to get radon poisoning, it is that heavy (just like mercury and lead fumes). I'm not saying that radon isn't a problem but knowing that it is heavy will help to know how to manage it best. I wonder how much the clothes dryer mitigates.

Jim

The radon tests that we do, are taken from a normal bed height because it's based on an 8 hour exposure for max levels, so it's hard to believe the floor sucking issue. Some levels are very high in our area due to shallow lignite coal veins that can contain uranium. Radon is a gas produced by the decay of said uranium in higher than normal amounts. The under floor method I mentioned does effectively remove the gas as I've seen in test results here. The US standard here is a max of 4pL but in Canada they have a max of 10pL so don't figure as to which is an acceptible level.

[tall grass]

rexherring

My comment deals with the specific gravity of elemental gases of lead, mercury, uranium which are all heavier than air. Thus it should pool in low places. If you are getting it at the bed levels there has got to be a lot of radon. You know I just hate it when a discussion gets to this point and I have to actually have to look up and see how much heavier is radon than air? I wonder if it is in one of the CRC hand books at the library. We seem to have our share of it in this part of Kansas. Not much coal but plenty of limestone. Would be interesting to see what it tests in different levels in a basement.

Jim

[rexherring]

tall grass, I didn't mean it to sound like I dissed you on that. Yup, heavier than air but it disperses throughout a home due to normal air movement and forced air furnaces and central air systems.

[zxcvbob]

I am not an expert, but I don't trust anybody with the words "mitigation" or "abatement" in their names. Just sayin'

Radon is heavier than air so the highest concentration will be in the basement near the floor (that's where it's coming in anyway) But if you don't get rid of it, it will diffuse into the rest of the house too. Do you have a sump in the basement? A tiny fan to suck out the air in the sump and vent it outside shouldn't be all that expensive and is probably all you need.

If you're buying the house this should be the seller's problem not yours -- or at least the settlement price gets adjusted at closing.

ETA: the system Rex described in #29 should work great. But if you have a sump pump already I think you can utilize that instead of digging another hole. It might not be as effective, but it probably doesn't need to be.

[shaune509]

As stated in post #30 we have gone from one problem ie air leaks-must be pluged to a new problem, remove radon and add air to air exchangers to bring in fresh air. We also did not have the problem with mold that we now have before 'house wrapping'.
Shaune509