A new adventure......9mm Para with cast boolits

[bcp477]

I started hand loading for my 9mm Para pistols a short time ago. I lucked out - after lots of research. The FIRST load I tried was a winner - 4.8 grains of HP38, under a 124 grain jacketed pill, Winchester SP primers, mixed brass and a COL of 1.10". GREAT results in all three of my 9mm's. I have more testing to do- that's not the end of it - but right now, I have a great J-word load (so why mess with it ?).

Now, I will try cast boolits. I seem to find lots of 0.355" dia cast boolits sold for the 9mm. Of course, IF the barrel in question is actually 0.355"....then cast boolits should be at least 0.356"...so why do they supply 0.355" dia boolits ? I haven't yet slugged my barrels - but I will get to that soon. I have chosen to try 125 grain truncated cone/ FP (38 Special) boolits, at 0.357". I think that, if any of my barrels are oversized, that might give me a fighting chance. If they don't seem to work well, after working through the possibilities and slugging my barrels, then I can always obtain a Lee 0.356" die and size them down. I've never heard of any 9mm barrels being undersized - always correct OR oversized - so I thought this the best starting point.

The boolits came lubed with a fine black, (graphite-based??) lube, much like a soft thick paint. (NOT the flaky, messy kind). I have tumble lubed them with LLA, for insurance sake. I have tested dummy cartridges I made up, to check for magazine function, chambering, extraction and ejection, etc. A COL of 1.10" works perfectly....and allows me to do a proper taper crimp against one of the driving bands (NOT roll the case mouth into one of the grooves on the boolit). So, all seems in order there.

I will do some test loads with HP38.....between 3.3 and 4.0 grains....at the aforementioned COL of 1.10".

What do you guys think ? Might I be on the right track ? I'd be happy to entertain any ideas you might have on this.

I will have a chance to test some loads on Thursday. I will report back, as to my results.

[NuJudge]

I have a beautiful Browning High Power race gun my Dad had built about 1965. It won't feed a cartridge loaded with bullets larger than .356".

All my Beretta 92 and Walther P38 barrels are just under .358", but they freely chamber cartridges loaded with .359" bullets.

[bcp477]

I have a beautiful Browning High Power race gun my Dad had built about 1965. It won't feed a cartridge loaded with bullets larger than .356".

All my Beretta 92 and Walther P38 barrels are just under .358", but they freely chamber cartridges loaded with .359" bullets.




To quote myself : "I have tested dummy cartridges I made up, to check for magazine function, chambering, extraction and ejection, etc. A COL of 1.10" works perfectly....and allows me to do a proper taper crimp against one of the driving bands (NOT roll the case mouth into one of the grooves on the boolit). So, all seems in order there."


Been there, done that. NO problems with the .357 boolits.

[captaint]

bcp - I'd say you're on the right track. My own experience ?? I had to size my 9mm's to nearly .358 to eliminate the lead problem. Enough lead that accuracy fell off badly at around 30 rounds. Both of my 9's have barrels around .355-3555. I went to straight air cooled WW's and all's well in 9mm land. A little more work than 45ACP, but what the heck, that's half the fun. enjoy Mike

[wcp4570]

You will have to try different sizes until you find what your gun likes. After 3 sizes i've settled on .356 that works best in my 4 different model of S&W 9mm's and 3 S&W M&P 9's that my son owns. We shoot a bunch of the Lee 120tc boolits at steel. I have cast and loaded over 8000 of those little boolits this year alone. Like Captaint said that is part of the fun.

wcp

[bcp477]

I got back from the range a while ago....after my first test of cast boolits in my 9mm's. I tried the loads in two different pistols, my Stoeger Cougar....and my Sig Sauer P250.

I skipped slugging the barrels this time....and decided to just proceed with test loads.

Nevertheless, I tested two different boolit sizes - 0.356" and 0.357" plus - both 125 grains. For powder, I used HP38, which is my normal powder for 9mm. I deliberately kept the loads light - no need to push the envelope yet. The loads were 3.6, 3.8 and 4.0 grains. COL was held to 1.12", for all loads.

The distance used for this (first) test was 10 yards, with paper targets having a 1.5" bull.

As to results, I couldn't be happier. Function was perfect, in both pistols. The (cast) loads were certainly dirtier than with j-word bullets, but that is to be expected. The 4.0 grain loads caused a little better ejection (the cases were ejected with more authority)....and that was to be expected. Some unburned powder in the barrels, especially with the 3.6 grain load, but that also, is no surprise. The lighter loads shot low, with 3.6 grains about 3" low.....3.8 grains was about 1.5" low. The 4.0 grain load was basically spot-on (actually still 1/2" or so low....but pretty close). Windage was no problem with any of the loads.

With the 4.0 grain load, with either bullet diameter, I was able to turn the 1.5" bull into one ragged hole - basically, 1.5" - 2" groups, with complete consistency. Both pistols pretty much the same, with the Cougar having a slight edge (this is my favorite 9mm and I shoot it very well, so the difference might be ME).

After finishing the cast loads, I put approx. 50 rounds of 115 grain FMJ loads (my normal range loads) through each pistol, for comparison purposes. NO loss of accuracy - the FMJ's were just as accurate as with starting with a clean barrel. 1.5" groups, at 10 yards, are normal for these pistols (with me shooting them)....no change there. I did NO special cleaning of my barrels, to clear any copper build-up, before trying cast loads. This did not seem to make any difference.

Using the 0.356" or 0.357" plus dia. bullets did not seem to make any discernible difference in accuracy. When I cleaned both guns, after getting home, I found NO leading in either barrel....NONE. So, apparently, my barrels are pretty tight - close to 0.355", anyway. A lucky break, that, I think.

Overall, I must say that I am well pleased. My intention, going forward, is to push the loads a bit. I will continue to use up my supply of both bullet diameters....perhaps slightly hotter loads will betray a preference from either gun. The same 125 grain, truncated cone boolit is available (from my usual supplier) in 0.356", 0.357" and 0.358" sizes.....so I may just go with the 0.357" dia. I have shot lots of these in my S&W revolver, which has a bit of a tight barrel, with no problems. That way, I can use the same boolits for both.

This was pretty easy. Ironically, the FIRST j-word bullet load I tried turned out to be excellent. Loading cast in my pistols seems to not be a big problem, either. Another lucky break for me.

[ShrinkMD]

I've been happy with a 125 LRN bullet and Bullseye 3.5gr load. They cycle the action fine, the cases fall at your feet, and it is accurate. Smelly and sooty, but hey that's Bullseye!

[bcp477]

Here's an update, in case anyone is interested.

I "pushed" my cast loads, to find the top end. 4.4 grains of HP38, with both .356 and .357 dia. boolits (all 125 grains) produced severe leading - and accuracy disappeared after only 1 or 2 shots. 4.2 grains produced light leading - but an accuracy drop-off after 5 - 6 shots. So, clearly, those two loads are NO GO for my pistols.

I now know that my three 9mm's all have barrels at or very close to 0.355" (groove dia.).

4.0 grains of HP38, under a 125 grain boolit, sized 0.356" or 0.357", COL of 1.10" to 1.12", mixed brass and Winchester SP primers.... works just fine. So, I will stick with this load.

I've tried both round-nose (RN) and truncated cone (TC) boolit shapes....and both produce equal accuracy, in my pistols. So, I will go with TC, in case I ever use the cast loads for SD (NOT likely, but just in case). For now, 0.356" dia., TC will be my "standard" cast boolits.

My next effort will be to work up a load with Bullseye, for these pistols. I'll probably start at 3.3 grains..... and work up. I'm guessing, based on my experience with Bullseye and HP38 in the 38 Special, that my top end might be somewhere around 3.8 grains. Only a guess, though. If that works out to be the case, then it will be a bit serendipitous - my "standard" 38 Special load is 3.7 grains of Bullseye, with a 0.357" boolit (though 158 grains). Since the 9mm's handle 0.357's just fine, I may settle on that size, with 125's for the 9mm's....and 158's for the 38.

Anyway, it's been fun and EASY finding a good cast load for my three 9mm's. I'm surprised (and pleased) that they all like the same load....but they do.

[bobthenailer]

I have 3, 9mm's and 2, 38 supers all prefer cast bullets sized @0.357 dia i tried 0.356 dia but all shot better with .357 dia bullets.