Savage 219

[NoZombies]

Are these worth the trouble? I've been looking for another hornet for a while, and one of these came up at a price cheaper than I could get a contender carbine barrel, so I felt I could justify it.

I haven't got anything loaded, and I'm out of town, but are these things generally decent shooters? Would it be worth the trouble of rechambering to K?

[L Ross]

I had one in 30-30 for a while. It was a good shooter and a nice looking rifle for the price. I wish modern manufacturers made as sleek a looking rifles at a modest price.
The down side is the interenal components (trigger, and striker.) are a little cheaply made and my gunsmith was not impressed. You will have no trouble selling it if you try it and don't like it. I would not rechamber it untl you decide you will keep it.

Duke

[Reg]

Had one years ago. Wasn't what you would call real accurate by todays standards and shooting it off the bench was a real pain---- the way it broke open.
Swapped it off for a Bushnell scope and a set of Sako rings. Still think it was a good horse swap.

[pietro]

Are these worth the trouble? I've been looking for another hornet for a while, and one of these came up at a price cheaper than I could get a contender carbine barrel, so I felt I could justify it.

I haven't got anything loaded, and I'm out of town, but are these things generally decent shooters? Would it be worth the trouble of rechambering to K?

Yes, worth it, IMHO (I've owned several over the years, in .22H & .30-30). The issue 26" bbls also give decent ballistics, too.

IMO the Hornets are better scoped, but only later models are grooved for tip-off (1") rings - so earlier ones need to be D/T'd over the chamber for a scope mount.

If it's grooved, I'd suggest D/T a single hole anyway - for a cap head screw to act as a recoil stop to keep the tip-off ring(s) from sliding when the rifle's fired. (or bumped)

.

[Kraschenbirn]

Had a 219 back in the mid-70s that gave me cause to believe in the .22 Hornet. Eventually, traded it off on a Ruger #3 (another Hornet) and never looked back. If the price were right, though, wouldn't hesitate to grab onto another for a 'knockabout' gun.

Bill

[Bob Busetti]

A friend of mine's father had a 219. It had two barrels-30/30 & 12 gauge. The 12 ga. was a bear to shoot. The owner claimed that at one time he had a barrel chambered for 22 High Power for. I haven't heard of one so chambered. Of course the owner claimed the 22HP killed deer like they were hit by lighting.
Bob

[williamwaco]

A friend of mine's father had a 219. It had two barrels-30/30 & 12 gauge. The 12 ga. was a bear to shoot. The owner claimed that at one time he had a barrel chambered for 22 High Power for. I haven't heard of one so chambered. Of course the owner claimed the 22HP killed deer like they were hit by lighting.
Bob

I expect he was telling the truth.


.

[NoZombies]

Well, I guess when I get home, I'll have to dig out the hornet reloading dies and get to work. Thankfully this one is grooved, and even came with a set of rings, so there should be no problem getting a scope on it. Since it came without a front sight, that's good news.

Maybe I'll get some loads worked up in time to hunt some squirrels still this year with it.

[Jack Stanley]

The last fun show I was at a fella had one that looked about ninety-five percent condition and was chambered in 30WCF . It didn't look like five hundred and fifty dollars worth of nice though . Though I haven't seen a Hornet for sale , if it's woodchuck accurate and scopeable I think it would be fun to work with .

Now if Savage would just upgrade the design a little and keep it's traditional lines ........ Okay yes , I would buy one in 32-20 .

Jack

[2Tite]

The one I had was very sensitive to cheek pressure when shooting for goup size. Remember that and I think you'll be pleased with what it will do.

[HoosierShooter]

I enjoy my 219; 16 ga for bunnies and 22 Hornet for ground hogs. Very nice pointing firearm.

[richhodg66]

I've never shot one but the ones I've handled seem so graceful in your hands and point so nicely. I'd love to have one someday.

[dubber123]

The one I have in 30-30 is one of my favorite rifles. It was a so-so shooter with cast and jacketed until I obtained a few molds that fit the somewhat loose bore. I needed a .303" nosed bore riding 311291 to fit it. It will shoot under 1/2" at 50 yards now. The grooved receiver didn't work out too well, the scope kept sliding. I ended up milling the barrel to accept some modified Leupold rings. No problems since.

[Clark]

There are Sav 219s and then there are Sav 219s.

I have a Sav 219D 30-30 in minty condition that I got ~ 4 years ago for ~ $125 [don't even think of competing with me or my brother for finding gun deals at a gun show].

The book "A Potpourri of Single Shot Actions" by Frank de Haas 1993 , chapter 19 is "The Savage 219 Single Shot Rifle"

I love de Haas' writings, and it seemed strange how much he seemed to dislike his Sav 219D.

I took mine apart, put in a new firing pin, and buy the time I got it back together, I hated that rifle.

And the bore was not made well.

He hints that earlier Sav 219s were much nicer.

I could see that it was built like the Handi Rifle I analyzed for strength. Twice as strong as the brass will ever be.

I worked up until no more powder would fit.
220 gr HNDY round nose moly W748 2.92" 26" barrel, 30-30, Sav 219L
Quickload prediction:
33 gr 51 kpsi 2176 fps
34 gr 56 kpsi 2232 fps
35 gr 62 kpsi 2287 fps
36 gr 68 kpsi 2340 fps
37 gr 75 kpsi 2394 fps
38 gr 83 kpsi 2446 fps brass and primer still look good
39 gr 92 kpsi 2498 fps primer very cratered, case full of powder, ball powder compresses a hair below 2.92"
39 gr 92 kpsi 2498 fps primer very cratered, case full of powder, ball powder compresses a hair below 2.92"

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/ClarkM/2-16-2010IstookmySavage216L-D30-30aparttoreplacethefiringpin.jpg
Here the stripped receiver sits on a copy of "Gun Digest book of Exploded Gun Drawings".

The trigger guard is made of sheet metal. Take one apart, and you will become aware.

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/ClarkM/savage219types.jpg
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/ClarkM/Savage219LpartslistfromDeHaas.jpg

Can you see the quality of design BEFORE the "L" model?
The earlier one's had the quality of a Stevens or Iver Johnson break action shotgun.
The L model has the quality of a cap gun.

-------------------------------------------------------

I did not like the rimfire type tip off mount, so I drilled and tapped and modified a Weaver #74 base [meant for a Sav 24, but has the same radius]
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/ClarkM/Sav219L30-30drilledandtappedWeaver74shorteneddrilledandextra slots3-14-2010.jpg
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/ClarkM/Sav219L30-30withscopemounted3-14-2010.jpg

I got it all together, got a scope on it, but I just shot it into the dirt to do the work up, and I have not taken it to the range.

What does it all mean?
Take apart the L model, and by the time you get that sheet metal **** back together, you will hate that rifle, like de Hass in 1963 and me in 2010.

If you don't take it apart, you might like it.

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/ClarkM/Sav21930-30withthelateralloytriggergaurdbutnota219B219Cordr eaded219L180withcheazyscope3-24-2012.jpg

I got another Savage 219 30-30 in April 2012 for $150
The old guy I got it from at the gun show said he had been shooting coyotes with this rifle for 10 years in a field of sheep across the street from his house.

Per "A potpourri of single shot rifles and actions" by Frank De Haas, this is a later first model 219 with the alloy trigger guard, but still has the striker firing pin.

Still later came the 219B, then the 219C, and finally the dreaded 219L.

What does it all mean?
The Sav 219L-D is a piece of sheet metal junk that can take 92kpsi.
The old Sav 219 is "an elegant Weapon for a More Civilized Age."

[nanuk]

I traded for two of these, both old with the swing lever, but haven't checked them close enough to know the model.

but I DO love the styling.

While I'm not interested in working up loads to 92Kpsi, something within 30-30 specs would suit me just fine.

four loads I want to load for... 247 gr subsonic. 170-180gr CB factory duplicate. 125gr Jword. 110-115gr PPCB.

[kwilfong]

I've got a 219 that came with a 30/30 & two 16ga barrels. I sleeved one of the 16ga barrels with an Adams .22 blank from Midway & chambered it .22 K Hornet. Shoots good & makes a nice walking around groundhog rifle though the trigger leaves a bit to be desired. I rechambered the 30/30 to Ackley Improved but haven't shot it much due to misfire problems that I haven't got resolved yet. Once that is taken care of, I think it will make a nice light deer rifle. Someday when my roundtuit is working better; I'll make the other 16ga barrel into a 45 Colt

[Clark]

Kwilfong,
When the firing pin pushes a regular case forward in an Ackley chamber, the case is stopped by a sharp ring of chamber that cuts into the brass. The cut does not hurt much, but the brass moving that far forward means that when it grabs the walls and then the base gets pushed back, the case stretches too much. That is why Ackley chambers are cut .004" tighter than normal chambers. But if you started with a 30-30 chamber in a 219, you never got a chance to set the barrel back a thread to make the chamber tighter.

What you can do is expand you unformed case necks for ~ .323 = 8mm. Then adjust the 30-30 Ackley sizer die so that you can just barely close the action on the brass. That will make enough neck turned into shoulder to give you non stretched cases that are formed and no more mis fires.

How do I know about this?
In 2002 I used 257 Roberts brass case new from the bag as a headspace gauge when I cut a 257 Ackley Improved chamber in a Lothar Walher barrel blank. I have tried ~ 100 things, but what works is 10 gr of any pistol powder covered the Cream of Wheat and fire forming with the outside of the case lubed with 50,000 psi Molybdenum lube. That makes some shoulder for the firing pin. Otherwise I get a separated case just behind the shoulder. The next time I fire it, I use a bullet and then I have a fully formed case from a chamber .004" too long.

[kwilfong]

Shouldn't the rim on the 30/30 case prevent that?

[Clark]

55718I did not think of that.

I have chambed some rimmed cartridges. Some I have done with a reamer that cuts the rim and some I do with a boring bar.

Have you measured the headspace of the 30-30AI?
The chamber rim space is supposed to be between .063" and .070"

The misfires are only with the 30-30 AI and not with the 16 ga barrels?

[kwilfong]

I get an occasional misfire with the K Hornet barrel too. Haven't tried the other 16ga barrel because I just don't have any use for a 16ga single shot.
I've replaced the striker spring & firing pin with parts from Numrich. I'll get serious about figuring out the problem when I get a couple other projects out of the way.

[Jim]

Shouldn't the rim on the 30/30 case prevent that?

Yes, a rim will prevent shoulder set back.