Revolver conversion to 22 magnum

[Tokarev]

Two questions:

1. To counter-bore or not to counter-bore? Existing barrel is slightly over 38 cal.
2. Can I get away with a standard reamer instead of buying a chamber reamer for the cylinder bushings? Do the 22mag chambers need taper?

[I'll Make Mine]

From my understanding, .22 rimfire (LR or Magnum) reamers aren't all that expensive, and you may be able to rent one. I'd do that before trying to get away with a chucking reamer (you'd have to then form the rim recess separately; the chamber reamer does that for you). Presumably you're planning to sleeve the barrel; it'll need to be bored out past the old groove diameter to accept the sleeve. Have you got a solution for striking the rimfire primer?

[leftiye]

22 RF chambers are (guessing) about .224 diameter, could be put in (concentric) when making the bushes. .22 mag chambers are, about .245 and have a chamber mouth of .224, so ream the .22 rf chamber with a piloted drill and a .245 chucking reamer ground to have a pilot. Counter bores aren't necessary, but do provide some protection fro blown rims. How are you getting the hammer to hit the rim instead of the center of the head of the cases? (Stay centerfire and ream a bit (.005") more for a .22 CCM?)

Easy way to go, buy a .22 mag cyl and barrel for a S&W K frame and have the frame modified for rimfire.

[Tokarev]

This cylinder does not have rim recesses which simplifies the project.
I was planning to have the old firing pin hole welded up and new one drilled or EDMed and hammer modified to strike the rim.
But I am still contemplating that and 22 hornet option.

[kywoodwrkr]

Chamber dimension should be available at saami.org, look on left for 'info & specs'.
Select 'cartridge and chamber drawings',
select 'rimfire' from a new menu,
then you picks your poison. :-)
Good luck.
I've been working on a similar project for over 5 years now.
leftiye, didn't you and I do some cylinder swapping a few years back on this?

[John Taylor]

A new chamber reamer for 22 wmr is about $40 from PT&G, about the same as renting a reamer. You will need to ream the cylinder to .224" for the bullet. If you ream to .224 first then you will need a reamer with the pilot for that size, ( about $70 for removable pilot ). Pilot size for the solid pilot reamer will be about .219".
Bottle neck cartridges in a revolver can have some problems. After a few shots the cylinder will start to drag because the cartridge shoulder moves forward and won't allow the cartridge to slide back into the cylinder to make clearance.

[Tokarev]

John, you are right as always. 22 mag then!

[leftiye]

Chamber dimension should be available at saami.org, look on left for 'info & specs'.
Select 'cartridge and chamber drawings',
select 'rimfire' from a new menu,
then you picks your poison. :-)
Good luck.
I've been working on a similar project for over 5 years now.
leftiye, didn't you and I do some cylinder swapping a few years back on this?

Sure did! I now have a .22 CCM model 15 with that cylinder and a .22 mag barrel in it. I got lucky and found (probly the last in captivity) .32 H&R mag model 16 barrels (8 3/8") and cylinders to make my 327 mag, and 32-20 revolters with. Another member here had one of the barrels and a cylinder (thank the lord!). Thank you again.

[Tokarev]

Wouldn't a 223 barrel with fast 1:10 or even 1:9 twist be a better choice of donor sleeve than 22 mag with its 1:13-1:14?

[I'll Make Mine]

If the revolver is to shoot .22 Magnum, why wouldn't a .22 Magnum barrel be a good choice? :veryconfu

[Tokarev]

I am just thinking that slower twist of 22 mag will not provide enough spin in a short-barreled revolver but faster twist of 223 barrel could solve that.

[I'll Make Mine]

Aaah -- lower velocity, lower RPM. Yep, a faster twist could solve that, but aren't most .22 Mag revolvers made with the same twist as .22 Mag rifles, and shoot just fine?

[Tokarev]

I have no experience with that, because in Canada the short-barreled ones are 'prohibited' and I missed the train to get grandfathered license.
But if I was to convert a junker classed as antiqued (pre-1898) to 22 mag, I would be able to shoot it with commercial ammo, thus the project.
Of course one of the options is to turn an extended 22mag barrel which will give it a few inches more, but that would take away from authenticity of an antique Forehand and Wadsworth.

[Bren R.]

But if I was to convert a junker classed as antiqued (pre-1898) to 22 mag, I would be able to shoot it with commercial ammo, thus the project.
Check that... an antique must be chambered in an "obsolete" calibre.

If you buy a .455 Webley and rechamber for 45 Auto Rim, for instance, your antique becomes restricted or prohib, depending on barrel length.

Bren R.

[Tokarev]

Pre-1898 firearm has to be in a number of prescribed calibers to be considered restricted/prohibited. Here's a list from the regulation:


Rifles:

* manufactured before 1898 that can discharge only rim-fire cartridges, other than 22 Calibre Short, 22 Calibre Long or 22 Calibre Long Rifle cartridges;
* manufactured before 1898 that can discharge centre-fire cartridges (whether with a smooth or rifled bore), have a bore diameter of 8.3 mm or greater, measured from land to land in the case of a rifled bore, with the exception of a repeating firearm fed by any type of cartridge magazine

Shotguns:

* manufactured before 1898 that can discharge only rim-fire cartridges, other than 22 Calibre Short, 22 Calibre Long or 22 Calibre Long Rifle cartridges;
* manufactured before 1898 that can discharge centre-fire cartridges, other than
10,
12,
16,
20,
28,
or 410 gauge cartridges

Handguns:

* manufactured before 1898 that can discharge only rim-fire cartridges, other than 22 Calibre Short, 22 Calibre Long or 22 Calibre Long Rifle cartridges;
* manufactured before 1898 that can discharge centre-fire cartridges, other than a handgun designed or adapted to discharge
32 Short Colt,
32 Long Colt,
32 Smith and Wesson,
32 Smith and Wesson Long,
32-20 Winchester,
38 Smith and Wesson;
38 Short Colt,
38 Long Colt,
38-40 Winchester,
44-40 Winchester,
or 45 Colt cartridges


As you can see both 455 Webley and 45 Auto Rim, as well as 45 ACP and 45 Rem Mag etc would still be antique.
Amazingly 38 Special revolver would be antique if made prior to 1898, but 38 Colt Short would be restricted or prohibited depending on the bbl length.

I've been involved in antique gun collection since 1999 and became well versed in all these intricacies. CBSA tried to arrest me and confiscate an antique revolver I was importing once. The border crossing supervisor ended up apologizing to me after 3 hours of wasted time.

22 magnum is a rimfire cartridge not included in the list above, thus converting any antique to 22 magnum still renders it antique. Conversion to 22 short or long would have rendered it restricted or prohibited depending on the barrel length.

[Bren R.]

Well, I'll be damned. I stand corrected.

Bren R.

[Mooseman]

Loopholes...I love em !

[Tokarev]

Not loopholes, Mooseman - strict letter of the law and regulation.

[Bullshop]

Convert to center fire and chamber for 22 Maynard extra long (22 ccm) (22 Velodog).
I have a Ruger single six so converted and whatever the twist is that Ruger used works fine with all boolits I have used up to about 55gn or so. The 22 Bator works real well as well as a couple from RCBS and Lyman that I have had converted from GC to PB.

[Tokarev]

I have almost zero chance of ever finding Velodog brass in Canada

[Tokarev]

A new chamber reamer for 22 wmr is about $40 from PT&G, about the same as renting a reamer. You will need to ream the cylinder to .224" for the bullet. If you ream to .224 first then you will need a reamer with the pilot for that size, ( about $70 for removable pilot ). Pilot size for the solid pilot reamer will be about .219".
Bottle neck cartridges in a revolver can have some problems. After a few shots the cylinder will start to drag because the cartridge shoulder moves forward and won't allow the cartridge to slide back into the cylinder to make clearance.

John,

There are 32-20 and 22 Hornet revolvers out there. How do they overcome the issue with shoulder movement and cylinder drag?

[Bullshop]

Brass is available from Shroader bullet works in Sandiago Cal. Could they not ship you some?

[leftiye]

John,

There are 32-20 and 22 Hornet revolvers out there. How do they overcome the issue with shoulder movement and cylinder drag?

Generally, the shoulder thang where it locks up the cylinder can be avoided with lower pressures which do not push the shoulder forward (and the head back).

[I'll Make Mine]

John,

There are 32-20 and 22 Hornet revolvers out there. How do they overcome the issue with shoulder movement and cylinder drag?

I agree -- low pressure is the key. The .44-40 and .38-40 are both necked cases, and were chambered in countless revolvers; they shot like champs even in the original black powder format. Additionally, all those cases have very gentle shoulders and fairly long necks, both of which tend to reduce setback. I don't consider .22 Hornet a low pressure round, and Hornet (or especially K-Hornet) will set back at higher pressures, but the small case means there's little enough bolt thrust and friction that the leverage of a single action will almost always be able to turn the cylinder.

In rimfires, you might get away with the .17 Mach II or HMR in a revolver -- for the same reason a K-Hornet works in a single action most of the time (the rimfire .17 rounds are also lower pressure than Hornet and K-Hornet).

[Bullshop]

What I have noticed about the necked pistol rounds like 32/20 38/40 and 44/40 is that the cylinder chambers have less neck taper than the FL sized brass. I dont know if I am saying that right. What I mean is when you look at an FL sized case you see way more taper/bottle neck than you see on a fired case. I have seen some fired cases that look just about straight.

[Tokarev]

Will have to go with FN 5.7 case - the cylinder happened to be too short for any other mainstream brass I would have access to.
Now I only need to find a source of short and stubby RN bullets in 224 diameter to keep OAL at below 1.225".
This must be a good fit for the jackets made out of 22 LR cases, which I can form into wadcutters.

What tool should be used to cut forcing cone?

[Willbird]

Will have to go with FN 5.7 case - the cylinder happened to be too short for any other mainstream brass I would have access to.
Now I only need to find a source of short and stubby RN bullets in 224 diameter to keep OAL at below 1.225".
This must be a good fit for the jackets made out of 22 LR cases, which I can form into wadcutters.

What tool should be used to cut forcing cone?

Ummm I myself would not chamber a gun for a round it cannot fire safely, is the revolver in question safe at 50,000 PSI with factory 5.7 rounds ?

[Tokarev]

The factory 5.7 rounds won't chamber.

[Willbird]

The factory 5.7 rounds won't chamber. Due to the loaded rounds being too long ??

[Tokarev]

Yes, one round will chamber, but then the bullet will stick out front and the cylinder will not turn to chamber the next round. So it is going to be absolutely safe from the perspective of someone trying to fire a factory 5.7 round in it and blowing up the frame. I have to go through that in order for this revolver to be classified as 'prescribed antique' under current legislation.

[Willbird]

Yes, one round will chamber, but then the bullet will stick out front and the cylinder will not turn to chamber the next round. So it is going to be absolutely safe from the perspective of someone trying to fire a factory 5.7 round in it and blowing up the frame. I have to go through that in order for this revolver to be classified as 'prescribed antique' under current legislation.

Yep that makes sense, I agree it is safe if you cannot fire a round :-)

[JIMinPHX]

I once saw a caliber converter that A guy had made out of a piece of barrel blank. He turned the OD of the converter far enough off center so that the center-fire firing pin of a .44 mag would hit the rim of a .22short in the converter. The converter was long enough to have a bit of rifling in it. The .22 slug just passed through the .44 barrel without ever touching it. He was hitting tin cans at 10 paces with it.

[JIMinPHX]

Just a silly question here, What is the original cartridge caliber of the antique & why can't you just make ammo in that caliber?

[Tokarev]

Not a silly question at all!
The barrel diameter is larger than cylinder chamber mouths. I would have to cast hollow-based heeled bullets and that is just too much PITA.

[JIMinPHX]

Another option is to ream out the throats, but I hate to do something like that on a nice old antique.

[Tokarev]

Not enough material for that to be safe. There is barely enough wall thickness.

[JIMinPHX]

That's really odd. What's the caliber?

[Tokarev]

What does everyone use to chamfer forcing cones in the barrels of 22 caliber revolvers?
Maybe I missed the tools, but it looked like Brownells only offered 38-45 cal chamfer tool kit...

[Tokarev]

Finally received the 4130 rods and tried cutting.
They cut like butter, which is great.

Pacific tool is shipping me the finishing reamer in 5.7x28
Should I pre-drill close to the case dimensions, or is it sufficient to just drill .22" hole through and expect that reamer will take care of the rest?

Should I use 1/4" bit to drill 0.17", then 19/64 bit to drill 0.905" and let the reamer do the rest of magic? Would that be a correct process?

[I'll Make Mine]

You generally want to remove less than 1/64" with a reamer, ideally around .010", but chamber reamers are an exception, because they're intended and designed to pilot in and cut from a bore size starting bore -- in other words, you want the throats drilled all the way through and reamed to size to serve as guides for the chamber reamer.

For a .22 centerfire, you'd want your throats to be at least .224 in the end, but you'll want to get there by drilling around .210" (Letter C, IIRC), and you'll probably need a twist drill longer than jobber length to get completely through the cylinder (drilling from both ends isn't desirable in this case; the misalignment you can't avoid will show up as a throat that's not concentric with the chamber). You'll want/need to ensure the throat bores are parallel to the cylinder axis and cut straight; it's quite a setup job and a drill press isn't close to accurate enough (a milling machine would work, and a rotary table would be an advantage after you get set for the first throat bore; lacking a vertical mill, a lathe can do the job but you'll have to redo the whole setup for each throat). After drilling through, ream to final throat diameter, then run the chamber reamer into each throat bore until your headspace is correct.

[Tokarev]

As I am making inserts, drilling is done on a lathe. Cylinder alignment with bore allows that.
Guess I'll just have to grab a .224 reamer, that's unavoidable.

[Tokarev]

Ok, having warmed up with my other 41/44 revolver and while waiting for Pacific Tool to ship out 5.7x28 reamer, I am making the FN-5.7 chamber liners. Should be done tonight.
Barrel is already threaded and barrel blank turned down and threaded to match the inside of the barrel with an adjustable die. Just don't have a pic of a threaded liner.
Brownells is shipping a lose 22 cal 11 degree chamfer cutter to chamfer the forcing cone. They did not have other parts for the 22 cutter.

Still undecided whether I want to leave some threaded liner sticking out front of the muzzle end for an unlikely case if Canada will ever legalize silencers.
That will surely take away any antique value, so most likely I will trim the liner flush with the muzzle end.

Would there be any benefit in heat treating the liners? I don't think these chambers and liners would be the weakest point. It would be the top of the frame I guess. But I could easily heat treat these to about 28-32 Rockwell if it would make sense.

[Willbird]

I guess you need to do the math on the hoop strength of the liners and see if your pressure exceeds the yield point. Here is a spread sheet. If you are exceeding the yield point the liners will eventually swell up and your throat dia will increase ?

http://lassengunsmithing.com/html/CylinderStress.htm

I think I would have just used 4140 pre heat treat (28-32) to begin with ?? One could probably use stressproof too.

But plain old O1 "drill rod" which is pretty easy to find has a tensile of 110,000 at 20 rockwell which seems to be about how it comes un heat treated. EDIT: different sources seem to say different things about drill rod, another one has it at 35 rockwell..which would be 158,000 psi.

http://www.simplytoolsteel.com/tool-steel-tensile-strength.html

If I were to make then in the lathe I would turn the outside, then drill maybe to just under 3/16, then "bore" with a 3/16 solid carbide endmill, then drill again, then ream ?? Just spot drilling with a very good spot drill, then drill and ream will probably work fine. A 1/4" 120 degree spotter was my favorite, dwell it so that there is no cut pressure.

I have no affiliation with this ebay link, just used it to show the tool

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Keo-Cutters-34140-1-4-NC-Spotting-Drill-90-degree-Carbide-RH-USA-614-/261094541918?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cca728a5e

These have no od relief so you can only use the tip, but you can grab it as deep as you want in the chuck making a very stiff setup.

[Tokarev]

It's unlikely I will be able to perform these calculations, as the liners will be inserted into the existing cylinder chambers thus creating a model too complex. Would be simple if it was just a chambered barrel.

In the mean time I've stumbled upon an unexpected and annoying obstacle: a couple of .224 chucking reamers that I bought turned out to be undersized.
One of them mices to .215, another .217 and the larger one reams .221 so a regular .224 bullet cannot pass.
I was expecting that a reamer advertized as .2240 should not be less than .2239 or larger than .2241 and it should ream me about .225-226" hole.
Where did my logic break?

Worst is that when I called supplier about returning the reamers, a voice with Indian accent told me that their 100% satisfaction guarantee works only for unopened unused product and if I used the reamer, they would not exchange it as "they will not be able to re-sell". That drove me nuts as if he was going to re-sell a defective reamer, I probably should not deal with this company which has no ethics whatsoever and sounds rather like fraudulent outfit.

Otherwise the liners are done and waiting for finishing reaming.

[leftiye]

I like your sleeves!

Reamers should cut the size they mike, and should mike the size they are labeled. (if you turn them nice and slow, and feed nice and slow for a finish cut. Lots of oil, and clean often) I could be wrong, but that seems to be how they work for me. They still don't finish well enough for my liking. Have to polish or lap the last thou. You could use the .217 for your next to finish ream. You want to finish at .224 for jacketed .22s. For cast you might want to be 225.

I know I shouldn't say it, but don't buy pakistani junk, FWIW. Have you tried eVil bAy? Some good buys there in reamers. MSC will sell you reamers not made by ragheads with only a file for tooling.

Cases will stick in cylinders (and not blow up) if you approach loads gradually. This will indicate excessive pressure! This will allow you to load these and find loads without damaging the gun or yourself. Just remember to stop and back off at the first sign that you are flexing the chambers. If however you reach some published data level (if such even exists) before this occurs, I'd stop there. Mike cases as you go, so you will develop an idea as to what desired pressures look like in terms of case size, scuffing, etc. I know some know it all is going to flay me for this, but it's my best advice (and it will work , but requires caution). This will be one way to cope with the question of strength indirectly (or perhaps even more directly it should be said).

[leftiye]

Actually, the chambers have to blow before the frame is damaged. That is unless the pulling force of the barrel, and cylinder gap exceeds the tensile strength of the top strap. Not very likely. I've never seen a blown up revolver where the top strap was damaged and the chambers were intact. I have seen straight top straps with chamber walls gone.

[Tokarev]

Those reamers were actually made by Lavallee and Ide in the USA.
The diameters above were wrong - I looked at something different when posting them, but in reality they were still undersized, though by a different margin: they were both .219" and reamed .221"
So if I bought .224 which was true, it should ream me .216 which should be fine with just about any bullet.

The 'made in India' hand adjustable reamer I bought from the same supplier to work on the 44 to 41 conversion described in another thread was horrible.
Its shank was lacking any heat treatment and it started twisting where square shank changed into round as soon as I started removing tiniest shavings. They looked at it and accepted a return without questions. This was the only size missing in my 'made in England' set that I never had problems with.

[Willbird]

In my experience a .224 reamer will cut a .224 hole unless you do something horribly wrong. And the hoop stress calculation on the liner itself I think will reveal whether heat treat would be of any benefit. It is further buttressed by the cyl but I would sleep easy knowing the liner itself was never exposed to a pressure that would cause it to yield :-)......or that it was strong enough that by itself it's yield strength is higher than any pressure we would be exposing it to.

[Willbird]

If a .219 reamer is reaming a .221 hole it is garbage :-). In a past job I did a lot of odd sized holes and ports, maybe six sizes a shift or more, and ever reamer cut within a few .0001" of what it measured with a micrometer.

I'm thinking they just sent you really poor quality 7/32 reamers ?

[Tokarev]

Yeah, I kind of freaked out myself. Assuming that 'made in USA' was a mark of quality, I just used the reamer on the 1st liner and tried to push a Hornady 68gr 224 bullet through. It did not pass. So I checked hole with the caliper and sure enough it was .221. Then I checked each pair of the opposite flutes of the reamer with the same caliper and it showed .219". Could it be that rotational speed of about 200 RPM on my mini lathe was too high for reaming that hole? I was using ATF for a cutting fluid. It is unlikely that heat expansion was a factor, as the reamer passed freely by hand after the part completely cooled down on the bench.

[Willbird]

Yeah, I kind of freaked out myself. Assuming that 'made in USA' was a mark of quality, I just used the reamer on the 1st liner and tried to push a Hornady 68gr 224 bullet through. It did not pass. So I checked hole with the caliper and sure enough it was .221. Then I checked each pair of the opposite flutes of the reamer with the same caliper and it showed .219". Could it be that rotational speed of about 200 RPM on my mini lathe was too high for reaming that hole? I was using ATF for a cutting fluid. It is unlikely that heat expansion was a factor, as the reamer passed freely by hand after the part completely cooled down on the bench.

How much did you leave to ream ?? There is probably some ration to dia of the hole but .01 to .015 is better than say .005. Also my dad taught me a lot about running the lathe and mill, he always said "get a reamer in there and back out, don't screw around about it" meaning about .015" per rev feed.

Running slower if you have that option might let you feed it harder...but at 200 you should feed 3" per minute which should be doable. 200 was not too fast, I used to program reamers at 25 sfm which would be 446rpm. About half what you would run a drill is a rough rule of thumb. I machined a lot of tool steel to used 50 for drills and 25 for reamers, makes math simpler.

sfm(surface feet per minute) x 4 / dia = rpm

Bill

[Tokarev]

Drilled with 7/32, then reamed. The actual rate would be about 40 thou in 3 sec, or 13 thou per sec, or 0.004" per rev.

This is the 1st time I actually worked with 4130 in my entire life. Previously I only worked with mild steel, brass, aluminum or mild SS.
Alot of what I did this time was based entirely on gut feeling in terms of choosing feed, speed etc.
After looking up feed speeds for the carbide tools I realized that mini lathe cannot produce such rotational speeds and it was vibrating at about 4/5 max speed anyway, so I ran it at about 1/2 recommended speed. Also I was removing very little every pass and had to re-sharpen the tools once in the process.

[leftiye]

Them book feeds and speeds are only useable on very solid machines, best of best tooling, and get lucky. Slower is not only okay, but the faster speeds probly won't work anyway. A gunsmith friend of mine, when chambering, runs the rotation at 30 RPM, holds the reamer by hand (so it can't catch) against rotating, in a floating reamer holder with a center in the reamer holder held against the hole in the end of the reamer (follows the bore). Cleans every few seconds of cutting (judged by buildup of filings) and re - oils.

[Willbird]

Them book feeds and speeds are only useable on very solid machines, best of best tooling, and get lucky. Slower is not only okay, but the faster speeds probly won't work anyway. A gunsmith friend of mine, when chambering, runs the rotation at 30 RPM, holds the reamer by hand (so it can't catch) against rotating, in a floating reamer holder with a center in the reamer holder held against the hole in the end of the reamer (follows the bore). Cleans every few seconds of cutting (judged by buildup of filings) and re - oils.

Well "half of the rpm you use to drill" for a CHUCKING (not chambering) reamer is still a good general rule. One of the earliest lessons in running machinery for profit was to calculate the sfm not guess at it.

Also for stuff that counts drilling and reaming some scrap is also a protip, see what the tool will do on something you do not care much about :-).

I do run chambering reamers very slow, do feed them with something to drive them by hand (I use a lathe dog usually) do use the tailstock center in the back, do NOT use a floating holder (I set it up right to begin with). Do clean chips every .100 to start and every .05 when approaching depth (my lathe has the tailstock quill engraved at .05 and .100 not in 1/16's).

For most things in a smaller lathe I prefer a dead sharp tool with no corner radius, it is easily quickly touched up on the grinder. IMHO the smaller and smaller your machine the less it will tolerate a corner radius on the tool. My grizzly is robust enough that I can use some inserted tooling as long as it is not negative top rake.

Dave at PTG can probably hook you up with a reamer for your throats that will cut the proper size.

Bill

[Tokarev]

I'll see what KBC tools crops up with and if theirs are off again, ask PT to add a chucking reamer to my order.

[Willbird]

IN the job where I did the most reaming it was shop practice to do whatever was required to make them run true, using a dial indicator, I never did that in the past, and it is more difficult in the lathe maybe, but I think to some degree it does help.

I would usually grab 2-3 reamers for a job based on their micrometer dia, maybe 50% of the time the first one worked fine, if it did not work unless it was in really poor shape it would cut undersize if it failed to work, since it was loaded up and it was an easy program tweak I'd try feeding it slower (faster if it was cutting a few .0001 big), then I would try reamer #2, almost never had to use reamer #3, and the tolerance on the ports we did a lot was +.0005 - .0000. If they cut big and you did not have any others it was worth a shot to run them in reverse and lightly apply a norton stone to the flutes, in case there might be some buildup from the last use, or a burr.

[Tokarev]

Now I have the 11 degree 22 cal chamfer reamer from Brownells - how much material to remove to form forcing cone?

[I'll Make Mine]

Now I have the 11 degree 22 cal chamfer reamer from Brownells - how much material to remove to form forcing cone?

If you don't get a better (more experienced) answer, I'd suggest taking the minimum that will make the big end of the forcing cone at least as large as the throats.

[leftiye]

Approx 1/8" of smooth cone before the leade where the rifling starts showing up. Call Brownell's for exact (what gives best accuracy) measurement. They have a gauge you can buy to get it perfect. Or maybe just a little less on a .22.

[Tokarev]

Chambering reamer from Pacific tool is here and now all chamber inserts are chambered to FN 5.7 "Bee":
64718
Used lots of oil, backed out every about 0.1" or sooner, removed chips and wiped reamer clean between cuts and it took total 2 hours to chamber all 6 inserts at roughly 100 RPM.

Max OAL with upside down bullet:
6472964730


Approx 1/8" of smooth cone before the leade where the rifling starts showing up. Call Brownell's for exact (what gives best accuracy) measurement. They have a gauge you can buy to get it perfect. Or maybe just a little less on a .22.

Does this look all right for the forcing cone of 22 cal?
647266472764728

[Willbird]

I'd say you went plenty deep. Those upside down bullets might work nice, would not hurt to fire a few to smooth the bore up a bit before you go to boolits ??

Bill

[Tokarev]

Was using upside down bullet to calculate max OAL only.
Ordering Hornady .224 HP Bee bullet for this application: http://www.hornady.com/store/22-Cal-.224-45-gr-HP-BEE/
This is the shortest and stubbiest 224 bullet that I know of. Will have to seat it deeper than cannelure.

[Whiterabbit]

you can also file the tips off the bullets you have and make defacto FNs.

[Tokarev]

I'd rather pull them and use in the bolt 223 instead of inventing a process and messing with bullet structural integrity to produce bullets of unknown mass.
Pulling them is necessary to adjust powder load anyway.

[Whiterabbit]

heh. I mess with bullet structural integrity every time I add tin to my lead. :)

[I'll Make Mine]

heh. I mess with bullet structural integrity every time I add tin to my lead. :)

Not quite the same as taking the tip off an FMJ and leaving the jacket open at both front and rear -- that invites blowing the core out of the jacket, possibly leaving a bore obstruction for the next shot. In an old Belgian revolver, that's a near-certain catastrophic failure if it occurs. Shortening a soft point or hollow point is a little safer, but it's still impossible to really control bullet weight with that kind of process, which could mean poor accuracy as well as unpredictable terminal performance.

[Willbird]

The Hornady .222 "jet" bullet is another short flat nosed bullet, they shoot just fine in a .224 bore, I shot a lot of them from a 22 hornet TC contender.

[Tokarev]

222 jet might shoot well too. I'll try both. I am not too familiar with many bullet makers - does anyone make a RN bullet in 22 at about 35-45 gr?

The conversion is complete now and I am just deliberating regarding cosmetics, i.e. to re-nickel the ugly pitted cylinder face or not.
Also the locking pin's crane has nasty wear and crack and the pin is falling out, something will have to be done about that.
The last photo is showing the cylinder gap closed by backing the liner towards the cylinder.

661186611966120

What's the name of the short tubular part of the cylinder that is sticking forward around the locking pin?
I might have to bore it out and install a longer tube in its place as there is quite some endplay which cannot be solved using a washer as this is not a swing-out.
Thinking of that, who on Earth makes tapered cylinders??? [Sigh] Forehand and Wadsworth did, maybe that's why they went under in 1892?

[Willbird]

I would think you can use .224 bullets just fine too. Sierra and Speer used to both make bullets for the older 22 hornet rifles. They are .223

http://www.sierrabullets.com/index.cfm?section=bullets&page=rifle&brandID=4&displayAll=1

Here is the Hornady 22 jet bullet


http://www.hornady.com/store/.222-22-CAL/

On a single action they call the center bushing a "base pin bushing" maybe ?? In a DA revolver that part is usually integral to the cylinder, I would think offhand you would just bore into the front and make a bushing to press in, then face it to length ??

[Whiterabbit]

IMO, regarding cosmetics.

all or nothing. Leave as is, it's fine. Or, if you want to touch up one surface, I think you have to do the whole doggone gun. otherwise, its gonna look strange.

[Tokarev]

On a single action they call the center bushing a "base pin bushing" maybe ??

Are you referring to the tubular protrusion around the center hole, like what you see in the very middle of the left picture in the post #44 above?
That's the part that is a bit too short. Making a new one and pressing in should work, or using John Taylor's locktite method should work fine too.

Here's the earlier pic from post #44:
66367

Found the proper name on Ruger forum: base pin boss :)

Regarding re-nickel of cylinder face, I thought that would make cleaning easier. If I was to buy Caswell Canada $40 nickel touch-up kit, might as well do the whole gun. It has no historical value whatsoever and re-hickel job, even far from perfect, would hardly de-value it any further.