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WRideout
11-15-2012, 09:44 PM
I don't know what happened, but when I tried to bring back and add to a thread I started a while ago, I could never see my last posting, although it shows a new one in the index. I will start from scratch.

I traded with Mike in MI for some Lyman 1 oz 12 ga slugs. I had never loaded slugs before, but he advised me on a load for the black Remington express hulls. It consists of Rem hull, win 209 primer, 40 gr of SR4756, and a white WAA wad with the petals snipped off. Roll crimp. I substituted the Fed primer because it was what I had. Initially, I trimmed 1/8" off the hull, as specified. My first target is the top left photo. The shooting was done with a Win 1200, 28" barrel, offhand at 25 yards. Full choke tube screwed in (!) The larger red square is 6" across, the smaller one is 2".

I was having a lot of trouble sizing the high brass hulls, due to a seperate sizing ring, which sometimes won't let go. I opted for the low brass Peters trap hulls, which I have a ton of. They appear to be the same internally. I did not trim the Peters hulls, because I did not think they would exceed the chamber dimensions, with the roll crimp. I also dropped back to the Win 209 primers, as specified. Next trip to the range, I shot a second group with the Peters loads (cyl choke tube this time). The second target is top right. The bottom two photos are of the components, and loaded shells. They aren't real pretty, but they work. You can see the name of our elected representative at the bottom of the targets. He leaves bundles of them at the gun club. He knows his consituents.

Couple of observations: I am using only the front bead site, and found that if I hold it so the bottom of the bead is tangential to the top of the receiver, it isn't a bad sight. Recoil is brisk, but not excessive. However it does kick out the empties from my pump gun like it was a semi-auto. I have been told that SR4756 is discontinued, so there are only a few cans left on the shelf. That's a shame, because it seems like that would be a very versatile powder for shotgun and cast boolit loads. I am not interested in long-range accuracy, but rather being able to bag the ones that are running by after being pushed by other hunters.
Wayne

WRideout
11-15-2012, 09:50 PM
Here is the photo of the loaded slugs, which I left out before.

Mooseman
11-15-2012, 10:26 PM
I would Never shoot slugs through a screw in full choke...you are asking for trouble.
I have had to repair many over the years that blew threads/blew the choke because it loosened and was fired. Cylinder or improved cylinder bore is better and easier on the gun itself when using slugs.

Rich

WRideout
11-16-2012, 05:24 PM
Only did it once. Point taken.
Wayne

Bren R.
11-16-2012, 05:38 PM
However it does kick out the empties from my pump gun like it was a semi-auto.
Am I reading that correctly... the pressure generated blows back the bolt of a slide action?

Bren R.

35remington
11-16-2012, 07:35 PM
No, you misunderstand. Inertia causes the pump handle to apparently "self actuate."

What happens is the shotgun goes rearward, the wad exits the muzzle, the bolt drops from its recess......and the shotgun is still going rearward when the bolt unlocks. The shotgun is stopped by your shoulder, but the pump handle and bolt still have inertia of their own.

The gun then "pumps" open.

Pressure is completely gone when the bolt drops out of its locking recess (recesses in the case of a Winchester 1200 with its rotary bolt). Pressure does not and cannot "blow open" the bolt in a pump shotgun.

Absolutely impossible. The forces holding the bolt in place in a pressurized barrel, before the wad exits, are far higher than the forces making the bolt drop out of its recess. This is only driven by gravity and spring pressure and cannot overcome bolt lug adhesion in a pressurized barrel.

OBXPilgrim
11-17-2012, 10:11 AM
I had a winchester 1300 shotgun (basically the same as the 1200) years ago & hated the way that action worked. I substituted a slightly lighter spring between the bolt/carrier and I liked it MUCH better. With heavier loads (it was a turkey gun - 21" barrel), the forearm would slide right through my hand. It was definetly something that you had to get used to - I didn't & sold it.

35remington
11-17-2012, 01:04 PM
I can make my Mossberg pumps self eject with heavier loads, so this is an issue common to all pumps.

The likelihood of "self ejecting" goes up when:

The load fired has more power/recoil

The shotgun is light, and the pump handle/bolt assembly is relatively heavy and comprises a significant portion of its overall weight (think aluminum receivered guns with heavy wood pumping handles and double action bars).

The pump has little friction on the magazine tube due to being worn in or lower amounts of bearing surface on the tube to cause said friction.....in other words, the pump is easy to work. My Mossbergs will open the action when it is raised to vertical and the action release lever is depressed.

None of these pumps are malfunctioning when they self open. They're working exactly as intended, and none of them "blow open" from pressure.

Absolutely impossible for them to do so. It's inertial alone that opens them when they are fired. I can get my Mossbergs to self eject holding them one handed. Not a thing wrong with them.

If you are aware, and you will be, that pumps will "self eject" you may work with this feature to speed the chambering of your second shot. Done properly, it should occur so quickly that you should not be conscious of any effort save that of moving the handle forward to chamber the next round. Neat, direct, and an intentional effect by the designers of the shotgun.

Don't look on it as a detriment; it's an aid to functioning and a quick second shot.

Bren R.
11-19-2012, 05:43 PM
Pressure does not and cannot "blow open" the bolt in a pump shotgun. Absolutely impossible. The forces holding the bolt in place in a pressurized barrel, before the wad exits, are far higher than the forces making the bolt drop out of its recess. This is only driven by gravity and spring pressure and cannot overcome bolt lug adhesion in a pressurized barrel.

No, I realize in a functioning pump action (one that locks up correctly) that it's impossible - I was questioning if that's what he believed was happening.

I've never had a load cycle the action on a pump for me... I'm sure it CAN happen, physics says it can... just wondering what situation I would ever be in that I wouldn't be controlling the muzzle with my weak hand while firing.

Bren R.

WRideout
11-20-2012, 07:45 AM
Sorry I have been out of pocket for a few days. My computer needed some maintenance to work right.

In PA, rifle deer season starts the Monday after Thanksgiving. Factories close, kids get out of school. I am planning to visit the state game land that is near Wexford, on the north side of Allegheny County, which is shotgun only. Year in and year out, there are more deer taken in the Pittsburgh metro area than almost anywhere else in the commonwealth.
Wayne