For the flintknappers

[Boz330]

Here are a couple points that have been found on the farm that I hunt on. The owner's son brought these by Monday night for us to look at. The large grey piece we figured to be some sort of ceremonial point, or for Wooly Mammoth. The white stone is Sand Stone not flint.
I would think that the big point would be worth quite a bit of money. Over the years I have picked up quite a few points while walking the fields but nothing like this. Most of them were chipped or broken since this ground has been worked for 200 years or more.

Bob

[waksupi]

That is a sweet find! As much as we think they should be valuable, they generally don't bring all that much money. $10 an inch is pretty average.

[popper]

The big one appears flat on the bottom, indicating it is probably an implement, not a spear point.

[GRUMPA]

I watched a show on the tips they used while hunting the big game. What I believe they call the CLOVIS points are meant to stay with the spear when they hit there target. The type without (or flat bottom) were made to come off the spear or staff once it impacted releasing it from the spear. When that happened they attached another one to the spear/staff so they could use it again and again. At least that's how I remembered it.

[Boz330]

I watched a show on the tips they used while hunting the big game. What I believe they call the CLOVIS points are meant to stay with the spear when they hit there target. The type without (or flat bottom) were made to come off the spear or staff once it impacted releasing it from the spear. When that happened they attached another one to the spear/staff so they could use it again and again. At least that's how I remembered it.

I would hate to meet the guy, who could throw a spear with this point, in a dark ally.:shock:
There are a lot of caves in this area and apparently there were a lot of ancient Indians living here. You can find chips everywhere. When plowing was the norm my friend who owned this property, before passing, said that plowing after dark was a fireworks show. A set of plow shares only lasted 60 acres. I have a plow that has never had the shares swapped out.

Bob

[JeffinNZ]

I watched, last evening, a Youtube video on knapping and was fascinated. I want to have a go now.

[Bad Water Bill]

MtGun44 posted this site, It lead me to many hours of seeing how many folks find and knap points.

We have several folks here that are quite good at it themselves

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoNmUJWNCMw

[waksupi]

We have a few true masters that show up at our black powder shoots regularly. Although I have done some knapping over the years, I never tire of watching them reduce stone into art.

[Dean D.]

Boz, post those pics over on Flintknapping section on this site: http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/directory#.UKVYEIbXtug I am a member there and find the general atmosphere there similar to the one here. Lots of knowledge there.

Jeff, you might enjoy that website also. What ever you do, do NOT try knapping that lovely jade you all have down there. You will rue the day you try as jade is the toughest stone on earth to break. It abrades well but doesn't break.

[starmac]

This may be a worthy hobby to get into, with the worlds climate what it is. lol

I have a friend that found 6 large spear points (clovis like) in a cave back in the early 70's. These are all 5 inches long or over, and truly beautiful.
I know two different people that has found upwards of a thousand arrow heads in west Texas and eastern New Mexico over the last 45 years or so.

[blackthorn]

Quote "I know two different people that has found upwards of a thousand arrow heads in west Texas and eastern New Mexico over the last 45 years or so. "

I would have thought more of those guys would have reloaded!! LOL

[Boz330]

Boz, post those pics over on Flintknapping section on this site: http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/directory#.UKVYEIbXtug I am a member there and find the general atmosphere there similar to the one here. Lots of knowledge there.

Jeff, you might enjoy that website also. What ever you do, do NOT try knapping that lovely jade you all have down there. You will rue the day you try as jade is the toughest stone on earth to break. It abrades well but doesn't break.

That is all that I need Dean, another forum to follow. I will post the pics though and see if they have some insight.

Thanks
Bob

[357maximum]

I destroy some stone now and again......but I am no where near qualified to say for sure, but I believe you have one of two things.

1. Farming implement
2. A big bifacial quarry blank that alot of other points/tools would be flaked from as needed.....them are not normally that purdy, but I spose there were proably those even back then that did not know how to say "thats close enough". .The folks over at Paleoplanet will have a much better answer I am sure. That place is the stonage version of this place and some of the members are residents of both forums.

[quilbilly]

It is not fluted at the base like a clovis point so it probably is a "hand-ax" implement. Given that it has little wear from weather, it is likely less than 500 years old. If it had those flutes on the base, it would be a serious historical find as it would be well over 5,000 years old. I have been looking for a clovis of any size for 40 years in Nevada (I have found the clovis sites and implements though). Your find is absolutely gorgeous though.

[MtGun44]

When are they going to make it illegal to own points, stealing from the Indians or descrating graves or something, no doubt.

I think if you find a piece of a pot and keep it, they consider that a crime in some places. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but
I thought I heard that this was becoming the law - about pots and such, not points - yet.

Bill

[starmac]

When are they going to make it illegal to own points, stealing from the Indians or descrating graves or something, no doubt.

I think if you find a piece of a pot and keep it, they consider that a crime in some places. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but
I thought I heard that this was becoming the law - about pots and such, not points - yet.

Bill

It is illegal in some places. I don't know the whole deal, but you can no longer take points out of some (maybe all) of the rivers in georgia and alabama.

[ShooterAZ]

Here in Arizona it is illegal to remove "any artifact" from public lands. I have known people who have purchased land with ruins in order to dig up the pots.

[starmac]

Here in Arizona it is illegal to remove "any artifact" from public lands. I have known people who have purchased land with ruins in order to dig up the pots.

I am surprised they can even dig them up on private land. I have an uncle that bought a ranch in NM and the water rights with it. After a few years they were going to take his water rights (steal) if he didn't drill wells and put in an irrigation system. After he spent a couple hundred thousand trying to comply, another govt agency barred him from plowing the land because there MIGHT be artifacts.
It took 2 years before the govt studies were completed and the red tape was finished before he could use his water on his own land.

[Mooseman]

That Large point is similar to ones found in N.Florida and were Called "Boat Paddles" but were really used on Large animals on the end of a hefty spear that wasnt thrown but used for Jabbing into...Very Nice score.
Private Land or diving in River bottoms are the only legal places to dig now because of Federal and state laws.

Rich

[waksupi]

I am surprised they can even dig them up on private land. I have an uncle that bought a ranch in NM and the water rights with it. After a few years they were going to take his water rights (steal) if he didn't drill wells and put in an irrigation system. After he spent a couple hundred thousand trying to comply, another govt agency barred him from plowing the land because there MIGHT be artifacts.
It took 2 years before the govt studies were completed and the red tape was finished before he could use his water on his own land.

It is illegal to pick them up. That came about, by two brothers back east some years ago. They got excavation rights on an old Indian village site along the Ohio River. Well, they didn't go in and do an archeological dig. They took in back hoes and cats, and made it look like a battlefield, absolutely destroying the place. The law was put into effect after that incident.
I'll still pick up the odd artifact if I see one, though. I have the advantage if an agent would ask me about some item, I can sit down and make one, and ask him what makes him think the other is an old one?

[Boz330]

When are they going to make it illegal to own points, stealing from the Indians or descrating graves or something, no doubt.

I think if you find a piece of a pot and keep it, they consider that a crime in some places. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but
I thought I heard that this was becoming the law - about pots and such, not points - yet.

Bill


The caves on this and neighboring farms have been picked clean years ago, and it is tougher to find even the small points since almost everything is no-till anymore. The best time to hunt them was after a rain in the fall. The fields were freshly plowed/disced which brought the points to the surface where they would be washed off and easier to find.
Haven't heard of it being illegal to hunt them here yet. When I worked as a guide in NM it was illegal to pick up artifacts on public land which is a big % of NM. I use to see a lot of Pueblo pot shards in some of the areas we hunted.

Bob

[Crawdaddy]

Nice find,very good quality. You don't see many artifacts in that condition anymore.


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[quilbilly]

`1
It is illegal to pick them up. That came about, by two brothers back east some years ago. They got excavation rights on an old Indian village site along the Ohio River. Well, they didn't go in and do an archeological dig. They took in back hoes and cats, and made it look like a battlefield, absolutely destroying the place. The law was put into effect after that incident.
I'll still pick up the odd artifact if I see one, though. I have the advantage if an agent would ask me about some item, I can sit down and make one, and ask him what makes him think the other is an old one?
Some years back I discovered a Clovis tool and materials cache with evidence it was at least 7,000 years old so reported it to the archeologists at the U of Nevada. The so called experts went in with backhoes and destroyed the site. Apparently it is legal for government workers to destroy a priceless site.
When I find a site like that now, the last person I will tell is a gov't expert. I will protect it for future generations. (Yes I am keeping that secret and others)

[Mooseman]

It is a shame when they destroy the sites with equipment. When we dig , we do it by hand and carefully so as to not damage anything. The funny part is that when the points end up at Universities and such , a lot of them "walk" out the back door and end up on the Market for private collectors.
Here is the last Point I found.
5420854209