Rebarreling my 98K (Which Caliber) ?

[hylander]

So I have desided to rebarrel my K98 for a dedicated Cast rifle.
Going with a Lother Walther barrel with military step contour so I can keep it in the original stock with the original sights, only thing that will be changed is the barrel.

Now which Caliber ?
These are their offerings.
6.5x57, 7x57, 7x64, 8x33, 8x57JS, .243Win., .30-06, .300Savage, .308Win

I am leaning toward the 30-06 since I already have an 03A3 and all the reloading setup. Maybe .308, then all I need is dies and brass and use the same bullets and powder for the 06.
Between the 30-06 and .308 is either more inherently accurate with cast bullets ?

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b193/hylander7/Firearms/Milsurps/Mausers/IMG_2478.jpg

[3006guns]

Not to try and sway you, but unless there's something radically wrong with that barrel I'd leave it alone. The 8x57 is quite accurate with lead, at least in my experience and nice, original 98k's are getting hard to find these days. If the bore is good why not try a boolit in the 200-215 grain range first? You might be pleasantly surprised.

[bruce drake]

I'd recommend staying in 8MM Mauser as well. That is a very good looking rifle for its age. 8mm Mauser is excellent in cast as well and is very accurate in its own right.

Your rifle can handle both the 30-06 and the 308 Win but you might find you'll need to tweak the feed rails to reliably load the shorter case of the 308.

[bob208]

you will gain nothing by rebarreling that mauser. as stated 8mm is a very good cast bullet shooter.

[gnoahhh]

I like the idea of a new LW stepped barrel. Nothing like a fresh barrel to work up loads with. Keep the original one to put back on if originality is an issue.

I too would go with the 8x57 because it's a wonderful round, but with mold selection in .30 cal so much better, perhaps .308. You shouldn't have to change anything to get a .308 to feed. .30/06 could, or couldn't, be a problem length-wise. One of my Mausers is a .30/06 which I did nothing to the mag box or follower, and as long as ammo is no longer than 'factory' OAL, it feeds fine. I had the new barrel throated to be a perfect match up with my favorite .30 cast bullet seated to standard OAL and all is right with the world..

[hylander]

Thanks for the input.
Reason for rebarreling is two fold.
First the barrel: If shooting jacketed rounds it copper fouls bad after
just 15 rounds, if shooting cast it leads up bad after just 12 rounds.
I have cleaned the barrel spotless and I mean no trace of lead or copper and this still happens.
I beleive it is my fault for trying to get the lead out with harsh chemicals [smilie=b: My barrel now looks frosty like a Mosin barrel.
Second: As gnoahhh pointed out bullet selection is much greater with 30 cal. and more available, plus I already shoot 30-06, so I have
all the reloading items. The new barrel will likely only see cast bullets.
I thought about getting another rifle for this project but I just love the look and feel of this Mauser.

[Bullshop]

I have available an original stepped barrel in 9x57. The groove diameter as I measuerd it is .358" It is an excellent shooter with all 35 cal boolits I have tried in it but I am putting a 25/284 barrel on the receiver to better accomodate the long range shooting here on the prairie
The 9x57 was a legal alternative after the war for Germans. As I understand it by treaty they were not allowed to poses any military calibers so a simply rebore to 9mm from 8mm made the milsurp rifles legal.

[Jack Stanley]

I would be partial to the three oh eight but then I used to shoot benchrest with that round . The aught six is good but I think the shorter cousin is just a touch more accurate .

Jack

[largom]

I would keep the rifle "as is" but I would fire-lap the barrel to try and improve it. Your 98 will be worth more money in years to come if original. Lots of other choices for a dedicated cast boolit gun.

Larry

[6.5 mike]

If you have the lee 175 gr mould, it pp's very easy & would be a fun way to polish your bore. I've even used it for 32-40's, sized to fit the bbl.

[waksupi]

I'm in the leave it alone crowd. The 8X57 is a fine round. I don't know why everyone always wants to change them.

[Bullshop]

Or Jes re-bore to 9x57.

[Ed in North Texas]

Not to try and sway you, but unless there's something radically wrong with that barrel I'd leave it alone. The 8x57 is quite accurate with lead, at least in my experience and nice, original 98k's are getting hard to find these days. If the bore is good why not try a boolit in the 200-215 grain range first? You might be pleasantly surprised.

Ditto!

Ed

[JHeath]

Rebarrel to 6.5 Swede or smaller, something low recoil and cheap to shoot. You'll shoot it all day and get more enjoyment out of your rifle. You'd probably shoot even more if it were .22 Hornet.

Unless you need to kill grizzlies and street-fight through Stalingrad, in which case 8x57 is as good as '06 or .308.

Keep the old barrel for the historical stickler of the future to re-install. There are countless thousands of original-condition 98s in museums and collections.

Sporter 98s ARE history. If you bubba'ed it and carved "HITLER LOST" in the stock that would be history. Because we're the sons and grandsons of the winners. We get to do that. The archeologist of the future will be as excited to find a bubba 98 as an original. It tells the story of what happened and who won.

One of these days you'll be dead and gone and somebody will enjoy that rifle the way they want to. Might as well be you, now.

[junkbug]

I would not rebarrel in 30-06. to do it properly, you also have to have a notch machined in the rear of the front receiver ring, and probably have the magazine box altered. Look up Norwegian conversions of this rifle to the US .30 M1 cartridge (30-06) and you will see what I'm talking about.

A conversion to 7.62 Nato (.308 Win) will not have this problem, as the Israeli Mauser shows. They put a magazine block in theirs, but you can probably get away without one.

The older metric mauser cartridges do not have thiese problems, as they are all near the same OAL.

If I just had to do that with a shot-out RC KAR98K, I would probably choose 7x57 Mauser. Different enough to be fun, not to hard to get mold, brass, and probably easier to get factory ammo for than even the original German 7.9x57 (*mm Mauser)

Yeah, thousands of KAR98k's were rebarreled in 30-06 in years gone by, with no other modifications. But they will only shoot cartridges with a shorter than spec OAL.

Good luck with your project.

PS: I would also try fire-lapping before altering the rifle. Great experience, and what do you have to loose? Don't let that opportunity slip, even if you order another barrel.

[hylander]

I would not rebarrel in 30-06. to do it properly, you also have to have a notch machined in the rear of the front receiver ring, and probably have the magazine box altered.

That receiver mod is to allow stipper clips to feed proper, I won't ever be using strippers, also I just loaded some of my 30-06 rounds seated to 3.300 on strippers and they fed perfect so no mod needed there :)
The longest OCL I will ever load is 3.300 with a Sierra 168 Match bullet and I already checked fit and function of these in the Mag and feeding and they work great.

I know most like to keep things original but I reaaly want it 30 Caliber.
So just mowing over .308 or 30-06
Like I said it will almost never see Jacketed rounds, just cast.

[dragonrider]

Before you remove the barrel, lap it, it may surprise you. As said above the 8x57mm is an excellent cast boolit round.

[hylander]

Is there such a caliber 7.62X57
As in necking down the 8X57 to 30 cal ? This I would be interested in :)

[flounderman]

You can shoot some paper patch lead and the barrel will shine like a mirror after a few. I would try that before I did anything else

[hylander]

You can shoot some paper patch lead and the barrel will shine like a mirror after a few. I would try that before I did anything else

How do I go about doing this ?

[uscra112]

Paper patch won't smooth out a frosted bore, but lapping will. Fire-lapping is easy, but take it slow. It can wear the throat out pretty fast if overdone. Still, lapping it is what I'd do first. If that fails, then anything with the same head diameter as the 8mm is good, and that lets in a wide variety from .243 Rem to .35 Whelan Improved. Me, I like .35s, but that's just me.

As for the choice between .308 and .30-06, the -06 has the longer neck, but the SAAMI .308 has a better throat. If you can get the -06 custom chambered so the throat looks like the .308, that's how I'd go.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Sleeve the barrel, that is sleeve it alone, lol.

I really like the 8mm and have a Turk, a Vegurio as well as an 8mm Lebel and an 8x56 Hungarian.

I have an excellent mould in 8mm which was a groupbuy, with one HP Cavity. Beautiful mould.

Have you ever given though to picking up a clapped out sporter, to re-barrel, rather than attacking a very good original military one?

[Fishman]

To put it in perspective, although there are thousands of 98k's as nice as yours, there are millions of mausers that aren't. The cost to you will be the cost of rebarrelling plus the immediate loss in value of your rifle. That amount will likely be less than what you would pay for a commercial bolt gun from Savage or say the Ruger American.

My unsolicited advice is to find a well worn specimen to rebarrel and leave this one be. You will regret altering it in the future. If you don't believe me, just read this forum a bit about the good old days and how "we didn't know what we had" etc.

If you are determined to use that rifle, I would follow the advice to lap it carefully and also make sure to slug the bore and use a cast boolit +.002 of the bore. That is the conventional wisdom and a place to start.

[Bullshop]

Wouldnt re-boring to 9x57 be keeping with the history of the guns since there were many otherwise stock milsurps converted after the war to be made legal for sporting use in Europe.
I would think it would hold a special collector appeal and would think a serious collector would likely have one.
That way you still have collector value and a 35 cal, the best of both.
I have one and in performance it falls exactly between the 358 Win and the 35 Whelen.
Whats not to like with that?

[docone31]

In Smokeless Paper Patching you will find some very interesting information.
It worked for me.

[felix]

A true collector won't shoot the gun, so do anything you want to it. If it was mine I would make sure all numbers match, and then proceed not to destroy the gun the way it looks. I would reline the barrel as a longer necked 8mm mauser, 30-30 neck length with same mauser 8mm body, and then throated to be 3 degree inclusive with zero freebore. I would insist on 16 twist with 0.005 land height with rounded corners such that 0.004 height remains after the circle. 5 lands. RCBS 32WS boolit. Cases reformed 30-06. ... felix

[gnoahhh]

Aw guys, it's just a Mauser. There are millions of them out there. By the looks of it, its already been refinished with no real collector's value, so what the heck why not re-barrel it? Shoot, if it were mine, that barrel would've been off there by now, and the stock in the wood stove (or fleaBay).

[hylander]

gnoahhh: Never refinished and all matching numbers.

I'm going to go ahead and take the advise to lap the barrel and see what
what I get.
I'm right now loading up some more rounds.

[Jack Stanley]

My Mauser is not near as nice looking but it's barrel is nice . Years back when Mausers were "sporter" material . Some clever soul sawed the stock off just ahead of the magazine . Everything matches on this rifle except the metal up front and the Kreigsmarine stock I found for it .

If paper patching would smooth it up enough for use that may be the way to go but still . Mausers were converted to a lot of things even by militaries of the world .

Jack

[gnoahhh]

gnoahhh: Never refinished and all matching numbers.

I'm going to go ahead and take the advise to lap the barrel and see what
what I get.
I'm right now loading up some more rounds.

Whoa, if that's the case I take back what I said! It sure struck me as being a Mitchell Mauser with the polished butt plate like they do.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Looks like the Yugo Mausers they sold by the crate load here and run out, just before I had enough money together to get one, :(

[swheeler]

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100000497&dir=1190
This barrel and this caliber

[hylander]

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100000497&dir=1190
This barrel and this caliber

That would be great but the lenght is 1.6" shorter than a K98 and those are also 1.25" shorter than an M48 and
I beleive the steps are different than the K98 so the sights would not mount correct.
I may order one just to have for a future Mauser I don't have yet.

[TCLouis]

308, 30-06, 8X57,338Federal, 358.

I would go 308, or 358 if it were me and most likely 308 since you could share components with the aught 6.

Course that is my opinion and you know what they say about opinions.

[Ed in North Texas]

Rebarrel to 6.5 Swede or smaller, something low recoil and cheap to shoot. You'll shoot it all day and get more enjoyment out of your rifle. You'd probably shoot even more if it were .22 Hornet.

Unless you need to kill grizzlies and street-fight through Stalingrad, in which case 8x57 is as good as '06 or .308.

Keep the old barrel for the historical stickler of the future to re-install. There are countless thousands of original-condition 98s in museums and collections.

Sporter 98s ARE history. If you bubba'ed it and carved "HITLER LOST" in the stock that would be history. Because we're the sons and grandsons of the winners. We get to do that. The archeologist of the future will be as excited to find a bubba 98 as an original. It tells the story of what happened and who won.

One of these days you'll be dead and gone and somebody will enjoy that rifle the way they want to. Might as well be you, now.

You are correct, a sporterized 98k is history. Worth whatever the buyer will pay today, worth less when your kids/grandkids get it. Un-bubbaed 98s - I paid $8.00 for my first one, $16.00 for a Argentine '91 Cavalry Carbine, try to find an unbubbaed one (much less one in the condition the picture shows) today at any price a working man would call "reasonable". But I admit I'm a collector who likes to shoot original weapons in as good an original condition as I can afford. My Grandsons and Great-Grandchildren will benefit. I will admit that when I was a youngster I thought these Milsurps would be around, cheap and plentiful, forever. I was mistaken. I have Grandsons telling me which ones are their favorites (with an eye to inheriting those favorites). Thankfully we haven't had two asking for the same weapon - yet.

Ed

[williamwaco]

Not to try and sway you, but unless there's something radically wrong with that barrel I'd leave it alone. The 8x57 is quite accurate with lead, at least in my experience and nice, original 98k's are getting hard to find these days. If the bore is good why not try a boolit in the 200-215 grain range first? You might be pleasantly surprised.

DITTO!

That is WAY to nice to mess with.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Milsurp riflesin original condition with good barrels are bringing insane prices here in Australia. Prompted by the fact that as time goes, by, there are less and less of them to chooose from and also that Military Rifle Discipline is getting more and more popular.

Who knows what they will be worth in 10 years time?

[swheeler]

That would be great but the lenght is 1.6" shorter than a K98 and those are also 1.25" shorter than an M48 and
I beleive the steps are different than the K98 so the sights would not mount correct.
I may order one just to have for a future Mauser I don't have yet.

They are M48 barrels and 23.25" inches long, no idea where Weidners got 22" from.

edit; so yes you are correct, they are too short, almost 3/8 inch too short

[Four Fingers of Death]

Isn't that rifle in the photo a Yugo M48 or am I just blowing hot air here??? haha. I have been know to be wrong occasionally.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M48_Mauser

[hylander]

Isn't that rifle in the photo a Yugo M48 or am I just blowing hot air here??? haha. I have been know to be wrong occasionally.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M48_Mauser

The Wiki link is an M-48
Mine is a K98

[Four Fingers of Death]

The Wiki link is an M-48
Mine is a K98

OK, Every rifle I have seen with a butt plate like that (and in that excellent condition) has been a Yugo. I didn't realise that other 98s were so equipped.

[hylander]

OK, Every rifle I have seen with a butt plate like that (and in that excellent condition) has been a Yugo. I didn't realise that other 98s were so equipped.

Well technically it is a Yugo, "Yugo capture K98"

[Four Fingers of Death]

Well technically it is a Yugo, "Yugo capture K98"

Ah Ha! Now the fog clears! :D

[Artful]

Thanks for the input.
Reason for rebarreling is two fold.
First the barrel: If shooting jacketed rounds it copper fouls bad after
just 15 rounds, if shooting cast it leads up bad after just 12 rounds.
I have cleaned the barrel spotless and I mean no trace of lead or copper and this still happens.

I beleive it is my fault for trying to get the lead out with harsh chemicals [smilie=b: My barrel now looks frosty like a Mosin barrel.

Second: As gnoahhh pointed out bullet selection is much greater with 30 cal. and more available, plus I already shoot 30-06, so I have
all the reloading items. The new barrel will likely only see cast bullets.

I thought about getting another rifle for this project but I just love the look and feel of this Mauser.

Well, of what you listed I'd go 7.62x51 (aka 308 WCF) - but if I didn't have to pick from your list I'd go 358 WCF - bullet selection in 35 caliber is very good at my house at least from 105 to 280+ and it just seems to me I have better casting with larger boolits.

[nanuk]

I have available an original stepped barrel in 9x57. The groove diameter as I measuerd it is .358" It is an excellent shooter with all 35 cal boolits I have tried in it but I am putting a 25/284 barrel on the receiver to better accomodate the long range shooting here on the prairie
The 9x57 was a legal alternative after the war for Germans. As I understand it by treaty they were not allowed to poses any military calibers so a simply rebore to 9mm from 8mm made the milsurp rifles legal.


I have read very good things about the 9x57. up here we can get 9.3x57's easy but 9x57s are scarce.

if you ever cross the border into Canada and have a jack handle that has a threaded end.....

I have a friend with one, but he'll NEVER sell it to me

[nanuk]

oh..

and if the 30-06 will work, go with a 35Whelen, or a 9.3x62.... then you'll really have something

[hylander]

So I lapped the barrel, still frosted, does not look any different.
However Leading was not as bad, I fired about 30 rounds and only had to use the brush for a few strokes.
Most leading was at the chamber end. Accuracy was not the best, best group was .98 @ 50yds.
This was with 175gr. GC .323 with Alox, 21gr. 4759
I tried 21 - 23gr. in .5gr. increments, each group got bigger and sporadic, not really groups
Next trip out will be with 175gr. GC .325 with Lyman Moly.

[hylander]

Went to the range yesturday
175gr. GC .325
First group with 17.0 of 2400 was horrible.
Next group with 21.0 of 4759 was .98", not to bad, next was 21.5 of 4759 at 1.26"
and then they just kept getting worse. Not sure whats going on.
The good, I had almost no leading.
However I just ordered a NOS Norwegian .308 barrel.

[David2011]

Hylander,

Just my opinions: If you want to keep the rifle, keep it as is instead of altering it. If you want a shooter then either sell the rifle and buy a project gun or put it in the safe and buy a project gun that already has no collector value.

In either case, if you choose to change the cartridge/ caliber, make sure the action will feed the new cartridge before spending a bunch of money on parts or a gunsmith (or both.) If going, for example, from 8mm to 6.5x55 (highly recommended) then make up a dummy cartridge and try it with the original barrel. The thing to watch for is the transition from the magazine into the boltface. It may not feed all the way but as long as the action will feed the rim under the extractor it's OK to use for the new cartridge. The reason I make this suggetion is that I've run into a problem where the head of a cartridge jumps out of the feed ramps early and ends up in front of the boltface instead of the rim sliding under the extractor. That particular gun feeds on 90-95% of the time, but that's a 1 in 10or 20 failure to feed rate. The same cartridges engage the extractor every time on other Mauser 98s so I know it's that spcific action that has a problem. It happens with milsurp, modern factory and handloaded ammo. It may work fine with the original 8mm ammo due to a difference in head to shoulder length but since it isn't 8mm anymore, it doesn't matter.

I shot a Russian boar and a whitetail this past weekend with my M98/6.5x55. The boar hit the ground where he was standing, DRT and the deer jumped up on its hind feet, nosedived and somehow made it 10 paces after a shot through the neck just above the shoulders. Both shots with 120 gr J-word Nosler BTs at 2775 fps.

Good luck with your decisions!
David

[hylander]

Thanks for the input.
I am pretty set on rebarrreling this to .308 as I am a shooter more than collector.
The .308 should feed fine as I have already tried 30-06 and it fed and extracted perfect,
I'll pick up a box of .308 cartidges tomorrow to try

[David2011]

The longer cartridges seem to have an easier time feeding than shorter ones. I hope it goes well with the .308s. Let us know. I sighted in 3 rifles for friends last Thursday and one was a Mauser 98 in .308. It fed perfectly.

David

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have had a few Israeli Mausers in 7.62/308 two were dicky feeders, two fed slicker than frogsnot. My mate modified the mag well by putting a spacer in one of them and it fed ok after that. The actions were designed for 8mm / 3006 length cartridges and sometimes have issues with shorter cartridges, but any decent gunsmith should be able to sort these out.

[UBER7MM]

Hylander,

Regarding the action and magazine on K98's when rebarreling:

If you rebarrel to 7x57 or 8x57 (7.92x57 JS): you won't have to modify the action rails or magazine 's length or width. The K98 was designed for the 8x57JS (and stripper clip charging). 7x57 will work superbly too.

If you rebarrel to a 308 based cartridge: 243 Win, 260 Rem, 7'08 Rem, 338 Fed, 358 Win, you will need to modify the action rails to account for the wider case at the shoulder and the magazine to as well. You may also need to block the front of the magazine to account for the difference in length of the 308 cartridge and the 8x57.

Words from experience: If you don't make these modifications, every once in a while the bolt won't pick up a cartridge from the magazine during cycling. You'll wonder why you have a miss-fire, only to find there was no cartridge chambered.

If you rebarrel to a 30'06 based cartridge: (25'06, 270, 280, 8mm'06, 338'06, 35 Whelen) you will need to increase the length of the magazine well by about an eight inch to fit standard 3.34" cartridges. The underneath side of the action will also need to be lengthened to account for larger cartridge. The ramp needs to be reworked to accommodate these modifications. If you're a OAL fan and like to push the bullet/boolit out to the lands, you'll probably want to enlarge the action ramp and magazine to fit your maximum OAL custom length cartridge.

30'06 base cartridges will fit in a stock military Mauser action if one reduces the OAL to about the 1/8" or so, until your gun will cycle cartridges freely from the magazine into the chamber. Your experiments may vary. IMHO, this quick fix defeats the quest for the perfect OAL.

I hope this helps,

[Four Fingers of Death]

The 8mm would be an excellent choice, great cast boolit shooter as well, most of my ammo for the 8mm is brass formed from 3006. Works well.

That is a sweet looking rifle, it is a shame the tube is toast, it deserves a re-birth!

As a rifle for Jacketed ammo, I would go 7mm. As a cast boolit rifle, 8mm would be my preferred calibre.