Powder Coating Boolits

[fcvan]

I'm tempted to try dumping the whole tray of boolits into a bucket right after they are done cooking. My concern is that the powder coating is supposed to cool slowly so I quick cooling may effect the coating. I do know that the coating is tough and chambering dummy rounds does not deform the boolit or the coating. Range day tomorrow (hopefully) and will be shooting 9mm, 40, 45, and .223 rounds. All have been coated with Harbor Freight flat black powder. More to follow

[Ken73]

I'm tempted to try dumping the whole tray of boolits into a bucket right after they are done cooking. My concern is that the powder coating is supposed to cool slowly so I quick cooling may effect the coating. I do know that the coating is tough and chambering dummy rounds does not deform the boolit or the coating. Range day tomorrow (hopefully) and will be shooting 9mm, 40, 45, and .223 rounds. All have been coated with Harbor Freight flat black powder. More to follow

I think something similar had been attempted but with poor results; the coating didn't adhere well and was extremely inconsistent as far as thickness was concerned.


Has anyone attempted a slick sided bullet (like for paper patching) in any of these endeavors, if there is no reason for lube couldn't we do away with lube grooves? Not sure if there would be any benefits but it was just a thought.

I've been wondering the same myself; in fact I think that's in my initial post - are the lube grooves even necessary, and if so - which ones are better? Tumble lube or the standard lube grooves? Seeing how these things hold up very nicely - I'd say they aren't necessary myself, but, that's just my opinion. It's debatable whether this is a polymer jacket or a lube replacement for that matter.

[Skip62]

Has anyone attempted a slick sided bullet (like for paper patching) in any of these endeavors, if there is no reason for lube couldn't we do away with lube grooves? Not sure if there would be any benefits but it was just a thought.

Yup, my buddy is. 9mm, he wanted more bearing surface on a 95 gr bullet, so he wollered out the mold. Says it works great.

[retread]

71643716457164671647I haven't posted much since the earlier section of this thread. I am still powder coating and am sold on the results. I have kept up on the posts with great interest . The post from fcvan hanging a pan from wires to rotate while coating prompted me to submit pictures of my approach. I am still using the oven pan with a light aluminum plate drilled and tapped for socket head cap screws. I made a "spray booth" to keep the overspray contained but needed a way to turn the tray to PC the boolits from all four sides. I bought a cheap lazy susan for Rockler on which I mounted a scrap of plywood, covered with a scrap of non skid mat. I ran a ground wire to the bottom of the lazy susan where is bolts to the spray booth surface and ran a second wire bolted to the top of the lazy susan to form a loop on top. Next I installed a ground wire on the bottom of the pan that would make contact with the ground loop on the susan when the pan was placed on it. Very positve ground system with an easy way to revolve the tray for coating.
I recover all the overspray (except for what is left on the pan) by running a plastic putty knife over the smooth surface of the booth into a recycle container.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Well I tried my first batch today. It's worked well. The only issues I had was too much powder causing a build up at the base where the bullet met the pan and or washer that was on it.
I had a little trouble regulating the air pressure and getting a good flow. My buddy who does a lot of powder coating is going to give me a hand next time. Wether he knows it or not.

Other than that I had great result. Did a bunch if 401638 and 311365.
I shaved a touch of paint off while sizing some of the 311365. Mainly just specks here and there. Only one had the driving bands cleaned off after sizing. Operator error I'm sure.

I hit them with dillon case lube before sizing. Seemed to help sizing a ton.

I'm going to load some 40 tonight and maybe knock off a few rounds tomorrow.

[fcvan]

Went to the range today to finally shoot powder coated boolits. The Lyman 225-415 PC'd with flat black, gas checked and sized to .225 over 14 grains of 4227. All rounds fired and cycled my Mini 14 and my brother's AR platform rifle. The rounds grouped well enough but were printing low.

My brother forgot to bring targets for the target stand and his rifle rest so adequate testing was not accomplished. Most of my carbine shooting with these loads is intended for 25 to 50 yards at poppers and soda cans. Without resetting the sights I decided to try hitting a 4" rock at 200 yards. Once I figured out the Kentucky windage I was able to hit the rock off hand every once in a while. I was keeping within about 6" of the rock but what the heck, it was off hand with iron sights. Fun.

Next up I fired some Lee 401-175 TC PC'd over 5 grains of Unique from my Glock 23. I pulled the barrel after 13 rounds and noticed general powder fouling. I ran a dry patch down and back through the bore and it was shiny like new. I'm very pleased with that. Just for grins and giggles I decided to try the rock at 200 yards. It took 4 rounds to get the windage and hit the rock. I had to put the base of the front sight at the top of the rear notch to get in the neighborhood. Once I knew where to hold I was able to keep them in 8" from the rock. I really need to get back into distance shooting with my handguns.

I was going to shoot some PC'd 9mm but figured the results would be the same so I saved that for another day. I'll shoot those along with some PC'd 45 200 RNHP boolits. After that my brother wanted to pop off some rounds with his new 1858 Remington Copy 44 percussion revolver. I hadn't shot mine in 15 years. After shooting the old cap an ball both my brother and I were sorta powder coated. Good times :)

[popper]

I shaved a touch of paint off while sizing some of the 311365 I've not had problems while sizing in push through, but do get a shaved one when seating - bad results. As for lube grooves, I see NO reason to remove them. May not make a diff for pistol but those long rifle CBs need someplace for the grooved lead to go. You really want to push all of it back to make a 'tail' on the base? I drove a pin nail well into the nose of a 175 40SW (~ 1/2"). Made a small round divit in the base so it shear'd the center vs expanding it. Normally it just makes a small crater ring around the hole so no accuracy problem (1/8-1/16" depth). Don't bother with the HF pins as they are cheap china junk and bend like pretzels. I used hitachi with good results, I only had a few pins to straighten. Haven't tried the porter-cable ones.

[rhadamanthos12]

I'm tempted to try dumping the whole tray of boolits into a bucket right after they are done cooking. My concern is that the powder coating is supposed to cool slowly so I quick cooling may effect the coating. I do know that the coating is tough and chambering dummy rounds does not deform the boolit or the coating. Range day tomorrow (hopefully) and will be shooting 9mm, 40, 45, and .223 rounds. All have been coated with Harbor Freight flat black powder. More to follow

Wouldn't you be able to let it cure, then do a heat treating process afterwards? I'm talking about once it cures (and cools down) sticking it back in the over to heat them up and then water dropping them.

[Edubya]

Wouldn't you be able to let it cure, then do a heat treating process afterwards? I'm talking about once it cures (and cools down) sticking it back in the over to heat them up and then water dropping them.
You could probably get by with dropping them straight out of the cure. This PC is pretty darn tough. I really don't think that you'll need them harder.YMMV!

EW

[popper]

I tried WD some a while back when I just dipped hot CBs into the powder then cooked. I didn't have a problem with the PC sticking (never shot any as they were gross looking) but wondered about the time for cooking vs the time for HT. I usually bake 45 min for HT, PC cooking takes ~ 20 min. Do we overcook the PC? My HT is before GCing, but PC after, heard about problems HT with GC. Going to PC some 308 GC this morning, I'll WD a few, mark and test next month. Question, questions. No answers yet. Edit: the 30-30 PB I shot were originally HT 50/50 #2/Pb with As & Sulfur added, then PC'd. Accuracy was worse than my normal HT/GC load.
PC'd 60 308 GC'd WD all of them. Used needle nose to pull them out of the cardboard and dropped into tap water. Don't see any problems with coating, alloy is 50/50 #2/Pb with As & S. I'll wait a couple days to size to see if they are harder.
Sized the WD 308, they are harder & coating is fine even on the GC. Loaded the PB 30-30 with 4 gr more - I'll see how hard I can push before they really go squirrely.

[rhadamanthos12]

this weekend I will be attempting to powder coat a few bullets, has anyone made a jig for 225 dia bullets. I would be interested to see what you guys have created for it.

[Russel Nash]

I've been absent from this thread for a while. I haven't forgotten about it, it just got pushed to the back burner for now. No, I have not made a jig for .225 boolits. I've only ever casted for pistol boolits, 9mm, .40 and .45 ACP .

[savage308]

my jig for 224 boolits is a sheet of 1/8" aluminum sized to fit my small toaster oven(12"x10") with 80 holes drilled in it for used 22lr shell casings with a slightly smaller sheet of alu. on the bottom to hold the 22lr casings in place and I insert my 225 cast boolits nose down and then everything but the tip of the boolit gets powder coated very nice. have shot them and no leading.

[popper]

HF has their pin gun on sale this week for ~$25. Did 75 30-30 this afternoon in <5 min. including set up and charging compressor. It'll take < 5min to load 100 on the board, 30 sec to coat and 20 min to cook. Faster than 3x tumbling, drying & cooking. Good 0.0015 complete coating.

[olaf455]

Definitely shorter total time, and much better looking finished product.
The upside of the tumble and bake method is that it requires a great deal less handling of each boolit. I tumble a hundred or so, pour out onto a mesh rack to dry, give the mesh rack a quick shake to loosen the dried boolits, and into the oven they go. I have plenty to keep me busy between steps. Boolits are definitely not as pretty though...lol...

[ryokox3]

this weekend I will be attempting to powder coat a few bullets, has anyone made a jig for 225 dia bullets. I would be interested to see what you guys have created for it.

Hello all, Been away for a bit, but now back with some mixed results. As for the 225, I did some .224 for an ar and it was accurate and non leading, but the mold necessitated it be a single shot. (nothing about pc, just bad boolit for my gun causing chamber issues pc or normally gas checked ramming the boolit into the chamber and getting stuck.) Making those, I put the nose into a 22lr casing that was jb welded to a metal sheet. Worked great to make soft nose boolits. Sizing took off the little 'bump' where the boolit met the 22lr case.

Now today I got to try some of my boolits I made when it was way too cold to shoot :lol:

For 9mm, I had excellent results. I had great accuracy from slow fire and also rapid fire. It even surpassed some carry ammo I was function testing in my gun. Not a touch of leading.

Next I did some 30-06 shots at 50 yards. This is a new rifle, not long from the break-in procedure. Jacketed bullets did well in her, but was having issues with PC boolits. I was shooting my Remington at 100 yards with jacketed, but had to move in to 50 because I was not on paper with the pc. Finally today I took a stand about 3' across, and put about 6' of butcher paper on it. The boolit is a lee precision ctl312-160-2r. Powder was Accurate 2520@ 44.3 grains.

Lubed and gas checked were within 2" at 50 yards. Same boolit but PC'd was all over the place. There was a 3 foot + variance on the impact height on the butcher paper. Needless to say I do not think these will be pc'd anymore. I did in the past try another powder but did had similar accuracy issues but I did not have such a large target to be able to track it. Just berm impacts showed it was way to variable. It is a shame as I like that boolit... but now just going to have to be lubed and gas checked.

I borrowed my bud's chrony and was getting around 2550 give or take for all the loads. ( I need to find my notes tomorrow to verify that but I'm pretty sure that is it)

anyway those are my results. I wonder if pushing that boolit slower will help. It is too late now though for me to think. Good night all.

[rhadamanthos12]

My first attempt has been rather unique, on a few bullets the powder didn't want to stick to one side. I will have to reprocess those, but the other problem I encounters is that the bullets don't want to break away freely from the jig or for those that won't tip from the base of whatever I set them on. I was reading some of you are using non stick aluminum foil, i was curious if you had that problem?

here is one of the better ones
72295

and a batch of 70gr 225 bullets
72296

[popper]

The boolit is a lee precision ctl312-160-2r. Powder was Accurate 2520@ 44.3 grains. Lubed and gas checked were within 2" at 50 yards. Same boolit but PC'd was all over the place. I assume no GC on the PC's 1's (@ 2550?). My PB 30-30 are only 70% of my GC load ( so far - I have some loaded to 82%). Slow them down &/or change alloy.

non stick aluminum foil Best results for me was to remove them with a twist before the PC got very cold. I'd have to tumble (process) 500 at a time to make it worth the effort in pistol, at my age I can't handle 10-15# at a time.

Definitely shorter total time, and much better looking finished product. I'm after a more consistent product. I could be way off but now my thinking is that a .002 off center due to coating and sizing won't work as well. Weight imbalance due to the pin should have no effect in 30-30 & 308 AR carbine @ 100; ~ 1/20 gr. off center in the nose?

[cstrickland]

My first attempt has been rather unique, on a few bullets the powder didn't want to stick to
one side. I will have to reprocess those, but the other problem I encounters is that the bullets don't want to break away freely from the jig or for those that won't tip from the base of whatever I set them on. I was reading some of you are using non stick aluminum foil, i was curious if you had that problem?




here is one of the better ones
72295

and a batch of 70gr 225 bullets
72296

can I ask what mold those 70 grain 225 bullets dropped from . was it an NOE ??

[AverageJoe]

I use a pan that I pre-drilled holes and inserted dis-assembled pop-rivets as a riser. The rivets must be smaller than the base of the bullet. After cooking, they just snap off. The secret is to NOT rivet it to the sheet, just pre-drill the hole just larger than the body of the rivet, insert the dis-assembled rivet body in the hole. It might be loose on the 1st coat, but after that the rivet is held by the PC. I line the sheet with foil, before I insert the rivet, so I can take them out and replace the foil when the build-up gets too high (6-7 runs).

71221
71222
72448
71223
71224

I did a batch of 9mm last night, worked like a champ.

72449

[DangerousDrummer]

An observation on PC bullets.

One of my first batches of PC bullets for my muzzleloader was well over a month ago, I recently ran another batch in a different color and took both batches to the range. Other than the age and color, both batches were identical and the boolits were from the same casting batch.

The older batch was much more accurate than the new batch! I did not run the first batch through the chrony when I first shot them a month ago since I was mostly testing loading/cleaning, so I had no comparison of speeds or accuracy. The new testing revealed that the older batch was a little harder to start in the bbl than the new batch, but the older batch was about 4 MOA more accurate than the new batch shooting from a clean bbl. This must have something to do with curing of the PC.

My favorite load for my 458 SOCOM which is a 420 gn PC RN charged with 27.5 gn RE7, is simply super accurate (less than 1.5 moa @ 50 yds) for a socom, and is a joy to shoot. The length of the bullet makes it more stable than the 350s and especially the 285s which are just plain erratic. I was asked if it was good enough to hit the steel at 200 yds, I punched the numbers into my Strelok ballistics calc on my android phone, used the reticle mode to tell me where the scope lines should be and bang... .58 seconds later... ding! Now for you long range shooters that may not sound like much, but that bullet @1170 fps dropped 29.6 inches in 200 yds.

Overall powder coating is working well for me. My new Lee 160gn 312 2R dbbl cavity will arrive tomorrow. I will now see how much I have to slow down that bullet to get it stable as I have learned that PC cast bullets need to run slower than traditional plated or cast.

[xacex]

I have noticed that the gloss colors feed better in the 9mm, and 45acp 1911 I have tried them in. The Beo got some coated boolits too, but I had issues this time around with feeding the flat black ones. Accuracy is not as good as the same load with 45/45/10. I did coat some of the 311-155's, and lee Blackout boolits to try, but may regret doing them in flat black. The idea of doing a light tumble with a dollop of JPW has crossed my mind. It shouldn't cause any more smoke than what I am getting now.

[popper]

ryokox3 - HT from PC cooking may have caused your accuracy problem, how long after PC did you shoot? I water dropped some PC'd and they definitely are harder.
Flat PC may have more 'colorant' and less plastic, flat spray paint doesn't flow too well. I changed to as complete coverage as I can get due to feed problems, even in a levergun. Definitely the SA are worse.
Some OP used MEK to do the Piglet coating method. I tried dissolving cooked PC in MEK, it gets spongy, never did dissolve. Also don't get your MEK around hydrogen peroxide. Think I'll stick to acetone as it doesn't leave anything behind when it evaporates.

[ryokox3]

ryokox3 - HT from PC cooking may have caused your accuracy problem, how long after PC did you shoot? I water dropped some PC'd and they definitely are harder.

They were over a month from pc to being shot. I was thinking that since the sizer can only hit a small amount of this bullet design due to the early start of the round nose, I may have had issues from one side being thinner than the other.

I will try running my next batch a bit slower to see how that works out.

[popper]

retread - I didn't make a lazy susan like you but did cover a lid with foil that I connect to, so I can manually lift and move my tray without having to disconnect. Thanks for the idea. I recovered quite a bit of powder from my baggie booth, reused this morning. I dumped the baggie and made a booth out of yard signs. Did a bunch of rifle this morning and was surprised how little waste I got. Only had a couple rejects out of ~75 that I'll just redo next time. WD and drying now. Hopefully get to compare the GC, PB, WD & AC performance this month.

[DangerousDrummer]

https://plus.google.com/app/basic/photos/115692223272335915583/album/5791524648299292721/5886124446497278226?cbp=fv2u6b7enfqa&sview=20&authkey=CIri5b-I__zofg&spath=/app/basic/photos/115692223272335915583/album/5791524648299292721&sparm=cbp%3Dmyvjth5hv7q4%26sview%3D20%26authkey%3D CIri5b-I__zofg%26pgpnum%3D12

Latest PC bullets. .312 dia 160 gn (orange) bullets next to my 458 socom PC bullets.

I will shoot these tomorrow and give a report. Will likely have to slow them down to make them stable.

[popper]

Shot PC'd 40SW this morning @ 25 yds, resting on TG. 10 shots didn't group, just a 6" horizontal spread, ~ 1" vertical, due to me. Well, 1 was down left a bit. This was after 150 or so rounds @ 15 yds. Don't expect any leading but haven't checked. Accuracy holds up very well. I still notice the up & left 1st shot, bout and inch. Russel, I'd post the target but someone else started using it.

[gimling]

Does powder coating do anything for the BHN of the lead bullets??

[olaf455]

No, however the coating is harder than most alloys. Baking the coating on can remove the boolits heat treating making it softer. If you do not heat treat your boolits this will not matter.

[DangerousDrummer]

So I didn't go shooting today. Instead I finished all of the pieces parts required for plating my first batch. It is bubbling away in the shop running at 2v. I do not have a DC ammeter so I do not know what the load is, but my research indicates that low and slow is best. I built a tray out of 3 poly cutting boards. The bottom tray has a hollow core which allows me to pump compressed air into the tray for stirring. There are holes drilled evenly next to the pins to allow the air to bubble up.

I used the same approach for holding the bullets that I used for my PC tray, except I used #8 ss machine screws screwed up through the poly protruding 3/8 in out of the top of the bottom tray. I created a bus bar system in the hollow core and the machine screws are screwed through the brass bars.

I have not stopped the process to examine any results yet, but I can see discoloration on the bullets. It is hard to tell what is occuring looking through the blue solution.

Plating Solution
16 cups CUSO4 solution (32 oz in just under a gallon of H2O)
8 cups H2SO4
900 grains PEG as a leveler
PWR Supply is adjustable 1.2 v to 18 v max 5 A ran at 2V

I will try to take a picture but now that Google has changed Picassa, I am unable to post links to the images. Guess I will have to use one of my own web servers to hold my pictures.

I just pulled a bullet and it is PERFECT! I can't believe that I nailed it first try when so many have failed. I checked to see if the plating would rub off using a scotch brite pad, but all it did is shine up. I just gotta upload some pictures of this. Wow!

First batch
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-RXxf4XEVUoc/UbKZWm5KUuI/AAAAAAAAAaw/OrKM1NEv2kU/s108-p/Plated+Bullets.jpg

Cathode plate
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-BykV2RECVBc/UbKZW5FLSJI/AAAAAAAAAa4/NLseb_59LCQ/s108-p/Plating+Bath.jpg

Anode plate
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-z3XliiEHSeU/UbKZRsn9QyI/AAAAAAAAAao/Yxk25csYTM8/s108-p/Cathode+Tray.jpg

[gimling]

Does powder coating do anything for the BHN of the lead bullets??

Maybe I should rephrase that question does the bullet become harder allowing for high chamber pressure loads? can I effectively do a hardness test and use that number as my load data?

[gimling]

900 grains PEG what is PEG please??

Looks good though, pictures are kinda hard to see. how long were they in the bath, thickness??

[popper]

Does powder coating do anything for the BHN of the lead bullets No, it provides a jacket that is weaker than copper but stronger than lead. The Cooking HT should be treated just like casting - if you want AC, ok, else WD.
PEG plastic ?

[DangerousDrummer]

900 grains PEG what is PEG please??

Looks good though, pictures are kinda hard to see. how long were they in the bath, thickness??

PEG is Polyethylene Glycol. It is a powdered laxative available from Walmart. I bought too much, the packets should be large enough. 900 grains was about 1/4 cup. The PEG acts as a leveler by inhibiting the flow of electrons to the high points that develope when plating.

I got the acid by pouring old battery acid through coffee filters. CUSO4 was from Zep root killer.

Some bath recipes call for HCL acid, but it acts as an accelerant. Plating too fast without a leveler is what causes the hairy growth leading to uneven thickness.

Plating time was about 4 hrs. I have not measured the thickness yet, but the plating withstood resizing. I was going to shoot them today but a big gob of tropical moisture moved in off of the Gulf so instead I am plating some of my 420 gn 458 SOCOM bullets.

Sorry about the pictures, Google changed Picassa and "made it better", at least that is their story.

I had told UNFY on the thread that I was not going to give up on plating.

[bangerjim]

Have been doing some "playing around" with the HF gun and system.

1st I bought a $5.00 air reg they sell and it is perfect for what this gun needs. See picture. I bought a couple 1/4" MNPT to plastic tubing barb adaptors at Lowe's and used aquarium tubing for the air line. Then "stuffed" the whole thing in some 1/2" black ribbed plastic wire surround. Taped the ends....and now have an "all-in-one" high voltage and air supply hose. I just hate having wires and hoses running around! You do NOT need a standard heavy big rubber 1/4" air line witn big brass disconnects on the ends to run this little dude. I put the disconnect ONLY on the REGULATOR. Air flow seems to be good to puff the powder out at a nice rate.....does not flood the boolits!

The little reg and the small tubing give more than enough air pressure/flow to "puff" the powder out of the gun. I have found if I gently tap the bottle against my hand B-4 pulling the trigger, it give a perfect flow and coverage.

Also do NOT screw the full bottle of poweder on the gun. That is why they give you 2 empty bottles with the gun. Put only about an inch of poweder in the empty bottle!

The coating is perfect, as seen by the red and black 45 cal slugs I coated this morning. Coat-bake-coat-bake is the perfect thickness. Sized perfectly.

See the "charpy" impact test on one of them. I hit that sucker hard several times from the top and the side with a 4# hammer and could not get the coating to crack or come off!

I have found my new "madness" !!!! 8-) BWAHH-HAAA-HAAA!

To the wife was said a few years ago: "This reloading hobby will save us hundreds of dollars!"...........(it is now costing us thousands!).

bangerjim :guntootsmiley:

7313473135731367313773138

[Smoke4320]

I have now been carrying around in my pocket a single powdercoated 45 ACP boolit for over a month ..
Along with keys, a knife, loose change and 3 45 long colts..there is no damage to the coating at all ..

[bangerjim]

7314073139

Lat night I "thunk up" a pretty simple (and cheeeeeep) way to hold the boolits on an oven tray while powdering their cute little faces.

A lot of good thought and effort has been expressed in this thread as to holding methods. Thanks to those! This is a very simple and cost-effective method using stuff you probably already have or can get at Lowe's or Home Depot.

The oven I stole from my wife has 9x12 racks. ( I bought her a new & better convection one yesterday!)

I took some aluminum rolled roof flashing I had left from a roof repair job I had to do last summer and cut it to fit the racks with a 1" overlap bent over each side to hold it in place.

The rack's rungs are 3/4" apart, so I took my 12" steel wing dividers and set them at 3/4" and, laying the sheet on soft pine, started to punch thru for the screws with a light tap of a ball peen hammer. Make sure the punch goes thru a little....check by holding it up to the light when done to insure all holes are thru or the screws will just revolve and skate around...... and mabe end up in your finger! [smilie=1:

By using dividers, you just lay the 1st row out 1" or so apart and then space over 3/4" with the divider points! Goes VERY fast & easy.

Once the holes are "pricked" thru, bend the aluminum sheet ends around the rack.

Take 1 1/4" long fine thread drywall screws (coarse will not be rigid enough) and drive one in each hole. They go in very easy with your battery drill (slow speed, please!) and they are solid! If one is a bit cock-eyed, just lightly bend it up into vertical.

You can determine the length you want them to stick up. Use longer screws if you want. Even "stadium seating?" :lol:

This whole thing took about 45 minutes to make. The drywall screws are cheap, readily avaialble, and have a very wide
head, making a stable base for our friends to sit on. You can see some 45cal slugs from a previous fluidized bed test (failed) I set on there for the picture.

The screw heads will not get coated, so there is no clean-up required after each coating. This rack holds 108 boolits. At this low cost and ease of "fab"-rication, you can crank out several for spares & different colors!

Good coatin'............!

bangerjim :guntootsmiley:

[bangerjim]

I have now been carrying around in my pocket a single powdercoated 45 ACP boolit for over a month ..
Along with keys, a knife, loose change and 3 45 long colts..there is no damage to the coating at all ..

The wife handed me four 45cal PC boolits I left in my shirt pocket that went thru the washer last night. Not a sign od any deterioration from tumbling in hot water. They rattled and banged around in there for almost an hour......hot water, soap and the whole nine yards.

This stuff seems to be very tough if you cure it right!

[Copper75]

I've come up with two different ways of coating my 45 acp 200 gr swc boolits. First I drilled holes in a board that the tapered part of the boolit would fit in nose down. Then I had the idea to just sit them in a pan that was covered in non stick foil.
Pics show the resultshttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/13/4u5esyqa.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/13/jasury2a.jpg

My question is am I better off with the completely coated base and uncoated nose or the other way around?

Opinions ?

[Copper75]

Btw,
Powder by the pound powder is giving a nice shiny hard coating !!

[popper]

IMHO the left one you can push harder, right one solves feeding and leading problems. The left one isn't covered over the front band, lands may pull off lead.

[Smoke4320]

so far in my testing on 45 ACP not coating the base has caused no leading at all
on my rifle rds , 308, 300 Blkout and 458 socom so far I have coated the base and to taper , no gas check, and again no leading at all .. up to 1650ish in the socom

[popper]

7350573506
Ok, tested the 30-30 & 308 PC'd. 308 using a new aimpoint, 3x9 for 30-30 @ 50. RO made me wear my glasses so I'm seeing fuzzy double, but - I like the PC FB RD. GC's were loaded a month ago, PB were dropped into water after baking. 308s were also dropped in water after cooking. Both are low Sb, Cu added to the 308. 308 was with a bipod, stand and rear bag for 30-30. Don't have a crony but 308 is GC 41 gr H4895, 30-30 25 gr Levr FB, 31 GC. POI is same as my jacketed loads. Left is 308, U/R is FB, C/R is GC. Got to pour some 30-30 FB with Cu and up to 30 gr. 308 needs more Sb.
Oh, forgot to add all but the GC 30-30 were using the pin nail system for coating. Didn't cause any problems. Completely coated including the nose.

[Copper75]

I think I'm gonna stick with the nose coated ones.
Popper that's what I wanting to known.
I'm coating my 300 BLK like you. Base coated up to taper.
No leading in 300 haven't gotten to shoot 45 yet.

Copper

[bayjoe]

I have been powder coating bullets for the past 3 months and have really good results with pistol bullets.
I just got a Lee 309-170 FNGC and made up around 800 bullets, my mix was 50/50 range scrap/wheel weights. I weighed and sorted the bullets, average was 175 plus or minus .3 grains. I resized them and they measured .3115 and weigh 180.8 plus or minus 3 grains. The weight is resized, gas checked and powder coated.
What is the opinion of letting these bullets age? And if you do age them, for how long?

[popper]

I would have WD them,you obviously want to run them fast. The 3 gr variation indicates you coating thickness is quite variable. Check your seating depth to insure you can chamber them, nose may be too large. My coating is .0015, 1/2 gr. I'm trying to drive PB to GC velocity accurately, if possible

[bayjoe]

Made a mistake on my post. My variance is plus or minus .3 grains.
How long would you heat them to WD?

[KYShooter73]

I've been lurking here for a long time. I'm powder coating, everything looks pretty and shoots fine. Making 9mm hollow points and soon .45acp. Two questions.

First, is it possible to overbake? I'm preheating on my jig, coating, baking at 400f for about 35 mins. Too much?

2nd, what is the smaller wire leading to the HF gun? The small wire with a connector to the air input. Mine is broken, but charge still seems good.

Thanks,

Matt D.

[bangerjim]

That wire is the shield or ground on the coax that carries the high voltage to the gun tip. It needs to be connected -----FOR YOUR PROTECTION. Otherwise the handle of the gun can approach the voltage potential of the tip thru possible leakage. Just solder it. And be safe.

The HV will not kill you but it sure will smart and scare you if you get zapped.

bangerjim

[KYShooter73]

Might wake me up. Thanks, I need to get my air and electrical untangled and squared away anyhow. Guess I'll fix that while I'm at it.

[popper]

Baking depends on the powder, follow the manuf. suggestions. Your extra 15 min may not make a diff, I don't know. I run my HF @ 400 for 20 min, then dump in water, rifle only. I missed pointing out another part of my experiment yesterday. I can't tell any difference in coated or non coated GCs so the old coating rig goes into the trash. Also, the aimpoint didn't loose zero over ~50 rounds of stiff 308 on an AR. Wish I'd remembered to take my clear safety glasses, groups would have been much better without prescription reading glasses. I single load the 30-30 and load 4 in the 308 mag, sight pic and bang, no waiting for the bbl to cool.
bayjoe, not sure in your case. I might try 250-300 for an hour, depends on your alloy. Somebody here posted you could do repeat a couple times at lower temp & time to get back to what you had. Never tried it. My process now is AC everything, WD after PC for rifle, size only after PC'ing for everything.
I did notice that recoil with PC is less than my normal lube. 50 rounds of 30-30 and my shoulder is fine.

[MacFan]

popper,
I can't seem to find your complete process in this forum, forgive me for asking...
If I understand correctly you shoot pins (HF pin gun) in to the bases(?) of your boolits to hold them while you shoot Harbor Freight PC out of a Harbor Freight gun. Then, trim or pull the pins after cooking.
My interest is not so much for day to day shooting but more for longer term storage. Thanks.

[Russel Nash]

Popper wrote:

....but 308 is GC 41 gr H4895, 30-30 25 gr Levr FB, 31 GC. POI is same as my jacketed loads. ....

I don't have a reloading manual handy, so how does that compare to normal j-word bullets' powder charge weights?

[Talondriver]

I read all 53 pages over three days. Last night I was talking to my Daughter-in-law without my brain engaged and mentioned pink boolits. That's all it took. You need to know my sons sweety to understand the enormity of that mistake. She's 5'3'', rather stout and the sweetest little girly girl you will ever meet. Curly hair, fluffy frilly dresses, couldn't hurt a flea. Until she opens her range bag. Then she sort of hunched down, her eyes get squinty looking, she gets this snarly look on her face and when her fingers curl around her hand cannon she actually kinda growls. When we go to a range for the first time all the tough guys kinda smile and laugh quietly at the site of the short girly girl entering the into the man's domain. Until she hauls out the GP 100 .357 with the 8" barrel. Yup, I said 8". Eyes get bigger, and the snickers stop. Then she goes into rapid fire double taps at 25 yards and eats the heart out of the target. Then it gets real quiet for a minute. And the eyes get real big. This girl does not use what she refers to as poufy rounds. You and I call'em down loaded target rounds. I load for her and I load them HOT! She wants a kick, a roar and a foot of flame. First time I shot with her and my son, I looked at him and said, "You gotta marry this woman." So now she's gonna load PINK boolits. That's just sooo wrong. But yup, I ordered the Harbor Freight kit last night. And she's going to get her pink boolits. Mine are gonna be RED.

[AverageJoe]

Here are a few I made for the wife. I added some smoke effects to the one pic.

7361773616736157361473618

[AverageJoe]

Here are a few of the new colors: olive drab, mirror black, mirror chrome. I have not loaded these yet, but will soon and test.

73619

[popper]

Macfan - I pin the noses, not the bases, they are FN. Base would work as well but as some will be GC coated I chose the nose. Don't bother with the HF pins, they are too weak. The gun specs 7/8" pins but I use 1" and place the strip in a vice & file off ~.01 of the top. Only other 7/8" pins I can find locally are porter cable, don't know their quality (china?). My 308 mould has same profile as 168 Amax without the plastic tip so the meplat dia is ~ .2, not hard to pin the center at all. 30-30 is the RD design with a huge meplat. I just clip off the pin - figure steel is closer than air to the wt of lead. I push the pins through 2 glued layers of corrugated cardboard ( don't need the alum. foil between layers) then set the whole thing on a foil covered steel plate. Coat and bake, pull them by the pin with needle nose while hot and drop into tap water. Haven't tried it with the 40SW TC but expect it will work the same. With 1" spacing I can do 2 trays in by oven, should be ~ 200 CBs. I already have ~600 done so I'll wait for the next batch. I may try some different powders when I get low on the HF, but it is working fine for me.
I used the HF white & red to get pink, after a bit the powder mixes better and the pink is not splotchy. Coating is very even.
The RO asked if I was shooting wood bullets or tracers. Few have seen this stuff before. I did notice him 'spotting' my targets with binocs, think he was impressed or curious.

[Skip62]

I like the purple. All of them are good looking though.

[sbeatty1983]

Thanks alot Average Joe, as if I dont already have enough on my honey do list, wife was looking over my shoulder and now I have to go out and get some pink powder coat.:wink:

[AverageJoe]

Sbeatty1983....Friends helping friends! Check with a local powder coater, they will usually sell you a pound...and you won't have to pay shipping.

[Talondriver]

AJ, The mirror black and chrome are the same color's I selected for myself, along with the red of course. They look good. Pink looks good also, although I still say it 'taint natural. As for Sbeatty1983's problem, ha!, join the crowd dude.

[MacFan]

Macfan - I pin the noses, not the bases, they are FN. Base would work as well but as some will be GC coated I chose the nose. Don't bother with the HF pins, they are too weak...

Good stuff popper, thank you. Are you using 18 or 23 gauge pins?

[Philly 117]

Hello Everyone! New to being a member here but not new to the page. I've been coming here for a couple years to gather info but most recently my face has been glued to this thread. LUCKY ME! I already had the HF PC machine and equipment. I saw somebody post a question about PC'ing a rifle bullet and a gas check after a coat and then sized. Gave it a whirl and got pretty good results (not bad for a first try). Went ahead with a .309 165gr RN and to me are perfect! Im pretty interested in future results in higher velocity calibers. Cant wait to see whats in store. (going to work tomorrow and building a coating jig).....RESULTS!73722


(Note: Center projectile gas check was never seated...overly excited I suppose.)

[Gun-adian]

A small test batch of three weights of .45's.....

[Philly 117]

Those look pretty dang good!

[Gun-adian]

Harbour Freight kit and flat black powder coat....

170gr .30-30 Winchester - Lyman 311041 GC
350gr .45 Colt - Mihec 460122 GCHP
310gr .45 Colt - Mihec 462 Hammer GCHP
215gr .38 Special - Lyman 358627 GC
155gr 10mm - Mihec 401-160 HP
155gr .40S&W - same as above

...and last but not least, The Beasties - 540gr .45/70 - Lyman 462560 GC.
These are trimmed "Marlin length" :)

It was a really rushed test. I only had 15 minutes before the range shut down, but everything worked as it should. I couldn't test the .30-30 because I forgot the bloody gun!!!! Oh well, next time. I still have to check the bores for "remnants", but I'm happy with the results, so far.

[Gun-adian]

Thank you, Sir!!!


Those look pretty dang good!

[popper]

23 gauge pins. Looked at the bbls yesterday but didn't get to cleaning. Nice & shiny, no left over powder gains.

[DangerousDrummer]

Tried some powder coat vs some home plated in 7.62x54R shooting a cast 160 gn wheel weight bullet. I started out with low loads (37 gns I3031) with the PCs, but the shots were all over the place. I started out with the same load for the plated and 37 gns shot about 1 inch at 50 yards and got progressively worse up the ladder. I will build another ladder starting around 32 gns for both the PC and plated and see if they hold a pattern better. I knew I would have to slow the hand cast down, so I did not waste a lot of bullets trying the first ladder.

I did shoot 5 Hornady 150gn bullets in the same hole using 42.4 gn I3031 but it was at 50 yards. Ordered a GemPro 500 that weighs in smaller increments than tenths of a grain, so now I will see how well I can work up a load for the Hornady around the 42.4 gns with sorted matched cases and bullets. Next trip will be shooting at 100 yds. It will be neat if I can keep <1 moa with a rifle built in 1943.

[DangerousDrummer]

Here are a few I made for the wife. I added some smoke effects to the one pic.

7361773616736157361473618

Yeppers! Jihadi lipstick is becoming available in more brilliant colors. They choose the color, and application is free!

[joemoe]

wiederladerTv posted his method of how he colored his bullets in large batches using a tumbling technique on youtube. He calls it the MCC boolits. I still think for small batches PC is the way to go for coloring boolits, but for those who might want to make large batches, you might find this useful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiFxAPtx4c0

[popper]

Yeppers! Jihadi lipstick is becoming available in more brilliant colors. They choose the color, and application is free I'll second that mate.
Cleaned the AR - 308 this morning. Shouldn't have bothered, it's clean with just a little powder residue. BCG was clean too. Some have complained about the HF powder but it's working for me. I may try something else in a yr or so when I run out of this stuff. Pinned a bunch in 5 min yesterday and GC another bunch to do today (308). Did some 40's, works just like rifle. I'll be coating and cooking next week so I'll toss them in to see how they do vs the nose on foil I've been doing. Got 2 16 oz peanut jars coated to load, 2 jars loaded so no hurry there.
Ok, pics of my pinning rig, not much to it. Blue board keeps them on the bench & off the floor.
739157391673917
those are the 308s.

[gimling]

Have a quick question I bought the powder coat machine from harbor tool bought black and red powders, I tried the red last night and when I cooked it and pulled out of the oven they were BROWN, anyone know why??

[joemoe]

Have a quick question I bought the powder coat machine from harbor tool bought black and red powders, I tried the red last night and when I cooked it and pulled out of the oven they were BROWN, anyone know why??

Too much heat or baked it too long most likely. I had a batch of mine turned brown and partially melted once.

[prickett]

Have a quick question I bought the powder coat machine from harbor tool bought black and red powders, I tried the red last night and when I cooked it and pulled out of the oven they were BROWN, anyone know why??

Did you follow the time and temp directions on the container? And, if so, are you certain that your oven's temp gauge is correct?

[bangerjim]

I have found if you run over 400 (430 in fact) they will turn a red-brown color. I think it looks better than the "lipstick" red & brass combo! I add a little black to my red powder to tone it down a bit.

[Russel Nash]

I'll second that mate.
Cleaned the AR - 308 this morning. Shouldn't have bothered, it's clean with just a little powder residue. BCG was clean too. Some have complained about the HF powder but it's working for me. I may try something else in a yr or so when I run out of this stuff. Pinned a bunch in 5 min yesterday and GC another bunch to do today (308). Did some 40's, works just like rifle. I'll be coating and cooking next week so I'll toss them in to see how they do vs the nose on foil I've been doing. Got 2 16 oz peanut jars coated to load, 2 jars loaded so no hurry there.
Ok, pics of my pinning rig, not much to it. Blue board keeps them on the bench & off the floor.
739157391673917
those are the 308s.

So you stick a boolit into the black gas pipe, nose pointing towards you, push nail gun up next to boolit, hit the trigger, boolit goes shooting out the other end of the pipe, flies into towel, rolls downhill, and stops when it hits the old campaign sign???

Then you cover a piece of cardboard with that non stick foil made my Reynolds, then push the boolit's nail tip through the foil and into the cardboard, then spray with the powder coating gun, then stick in the oven???

the cardboard doesn't burn or char???

EDIT: what do you do with the pin once the powder coating is baked on?

[DeanWinchester]

If I could jump in here a second,

A friend has powder coated some 100g .312 Lee plain base boolits for me. I have a 1/14 twist 30/30 barrel on my contender and its only job is a range toy. I wonder how fast this powder coating will let me push these things?
The gun and the cartridge will let me push a 100g boolit pretty darn fast.
I haven't decided where to start just yet but I'll work up from around 20g of RX7.

Any thoughts on that?

[popper]

About right Russel. Pipe is actually PVC. Glue 2 corr. cardboard together to get enough 'height' to keep the pins & CBs upright. Doesn't scorch or burn. You have to put holes in the cardboard before inserting CBs. It is reuseable. Place this on a foil coated steel plate, grounded. The foil doesn't get coated so the regular will work. I clip the pin off flush. I did layer the foil & cardboard, but not really needed. I tried setting the base on steel and nailing the nose - you get to chase them a ways. The gun bounces and the pins get bent, more so. Most of the bent pins I get are from ricochets. They do still bounce quite a bit. There is a soft rubber pad behind the towel. After I get this batch coated I may tinker a bit, but it works.
Dean - sounds like a good test. My PB are 180 gr 1:10 so you will get much higher fps.

[DangerousDrummer]

I have found if you run over 400 (430 in fact) they will turn a red-brown color. I think it looks better than the "lipstick" red & brass combo! I add a little black to my red powder to tone it down a bit.

So you don't like my Jihadi Lipstick?
http://www.medclinic.net/pix/jihadilipstick.jpg

[bangerjim]

So you don't like my Jihadi Lipstick?
http://www.medclinic.net/pix/jihadilipstick.jpg

Actually my wife does not like the "lipstick" look.

Looks like you do same as me and use HF powders! I am ordering several wild colors this weekend to play with. How about bright yellow-green for zombie ammo? HA.....ha.

The color does not make it shoot any better. Yet.......a red car DOES seem to go faster?!?!?!? [smilie=2:

have fun!

bangerjim :guntootsmiley:

[sbeatty1983]

Actually my wife does not like the "lipstick" look.

Looks like you do same as me and use HF powders! I am ordering several wild colors this weekend to play with. How about bright yellow-green for zombie ammo? HA.....ha.

The color does not make it shoot any better. Yet.......a red car DOES seem to go faster?!?!?!? [smilie=2:

have fun!

bangerjim :guntootsmiley:

I made these in zombie color.
http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af88/sbeatty1983/IMG_0296_zps7e2bdc9b.jpg (http://s996.photobucket.com/user/sbeatty1983/media/IMG_0296_zps7e2bdc9b.jpg.html)

[jcobb651]

^^^^
Very nice! I love the color!

[Russel Nash]

About right Russel. Pipe is actually PVC. Glue 2 corr. cardboard together to get enough 'height' to keep the pins & CBs upright. Doesn't scorch or burn. You have to put holes in the cardboard before inserting CBs. It is reuseable. Place this on a foil coated steel plate, grounded. The foil doesn't get coated so the regular will work. I clip the pin off flush. I did layer the foil & cardboard, but not really needed. I tried setting the base on steel and nailing the nose - you get to chase them a ways. The gun bounces and the pins get bent, more so. Most of the bent pins I get are from ricochets. They do still bounce quite a bit. There is a soft rubber pad behind the towel. After I get this batch coated I may tinker a bit, but it works.
Dean - sounds like a good test. My PB are 180 gr 1:10 so you will get much higher fps.

Thanks popper!

How far do those 23 gauge pins go into the boolit?

I still have to check out my reloading manual to see how your powder charges compare to jacketed bullet charges.

[Rev Chris]

I've never heard of powder coating boolits. Can someone tell me where do you start? Is there a novice guide? I try following the threads but need a beginning.

[bpratl]

I've never heard of powder coating boolits. Can someone tell me where do you start? Is there a novice guide? I try following the threads but need a beginning.
Start on page #1, there is a lot of very good data and pros & cons and a lot to learn.

[bangerjim]

I've never heard of powder coating boolits. Can someone tell me where do you start? Is there a novice guide? I try following the threads but need a beginning.

Yes you will spend several hours reading all this thread. Lots of info.......from the beginning....when we all started trying it. I am sold. The Harbor Freight gun and powders work perfectly and the stolen toaster oven from my wife (ooooops) does an excellent job.

Everybody has thier favorite method of holding the slugs while spraying and baking. "Choose yer poison, partner!"

End the end, everybody on here are "very colorful chaps"!

Have fun and do not hesitate to ask questions in this thread on problems you run into along the way to the "rainbow of colors".

bangerjim :guntootsmiley:

[popper]

Russel - about .20". Have fun finding LVR loads for cast. Larry tested some (RD 165, 170) and the result was >2200 for 35 gr. I tried that, normal lube and had lots of powder left in the bbl. My rifles are 18, 20" 1:10 so I stay close to the bottom of jacketed data for the weight. I'm trying to push the FB close to GC loads, as a test. I probably should get some of the better PC to make the test fair. Also have a couple # of 335 I think I'll try in the LR-308, I didn't like the performance in 30-30 or 308MX. Those 20 rnd mags go fast when you are having fun punching holes. Gee, now I'm wondering if I can use LVR in the 24" upper with cast? Gotta stop thinking - cost too much $$.

[xyankeeworkshop]

Any of you fellas discover a need to switch (smokeless) powders when you made the switch over to PC boolits?

I'm still running HP-38 / W231 under my cast .380, 9mm, and .45ACP just like when I was lubing with 45-45-10 and am now wondering if there's a better option now. Besides, nowadays I'm finding it harder to find either of those powders at my usual shop.

[popper]

HP-38 in 40SW, PC or not. I'll save my ARComp for jacketed my unique may last the rest of my life.

[Skip62]

I haven't switched, I use Clays, N320, and WST, 9mm, 38 Super, and .40. Only N320 in the smaller calibers. Going to try Solo 1000 next. Solo smoked with bayou bullets at major, we'll see with PC.

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

[joemoe]

I still use w231/hp-38 with all my PC 9mm, 40SW, and 380APC. I'm on my last 4lbs bottle of the stuff and can't find any shops around my area that have it for months.

[sbeatty1983]

I still use w231/hp-38 with all my PC 9mm, 40SW, and 380APC. I'm on my last 4lbs bottle of the stuff and can't find any shops around my area that have it for months.

I ordered 6lbs of HP38 from powder valley a couple months ago. If you are pretty close to the north MS area I could hook you up with a pound or two.

[xacex]

This thread needs more pictures! Traditional lube holdouts cant hold a candle to this for pistol use. 74290

[Skip62]

xacex, that's AWESOME! ! !

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

[xacex]

xacex, that's AWESOME! ! !

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

Yes, this is awesome! I wish I tried this a year ago. No more leading out of a 9mm, and these are Glock safe! I loaded up some 9mm for my wife's 1911. Each color is a different powder with starting loads or thereabouts to see which to use with p/c boolits. These act different than my traditionally lubed boolits so my normal load of bullseye seems a little hot for these. No leading, but POI changed, and the group opened up. The hollowpoints blew apart, and didn't stay together like they did before. So, I am starting from scratch with 4 powders I have used before with good results and working up the ladder with the one that shows the most promise. Then it is time for 38 super load development with the same gun. I might just go out and pick up a Glock 33 now!74314

[joemoe]

I ordered 6lbs of HP38 from powder valley a couple months ago. If you are pretty close to the north MS area I could hook you up with a pound or two.
Thx for the offer sbeatty, I hoping my 4 lbs will last me until all this shortage blows over. I guess if nothing this will force me to test out some other powders. :grin:

[popper]

xacex - will you be posting results vs powder? Pretty please?

[xacex]

Popper, I dont see why not. Dont wait up for me it may be a week or more before I can see how they do. I loaded them with Blue dot,Bullseye, W231, and universal. I have some red dot here as well as clays that I need to try too. No green dot on the shelf to speek of.

[awhiteha]

Hello, U guys should try some velocity testing. I have a 356 GNR (41 mag necked down to 357) that is calling for it.

[rhadamanthos12]

Hello, U guys should try some velocity testing. I have a 356 GNR (41 mag necked down to 357) that is calling for it.

what kind of velocities are you looking to see? I will be testing some 458 win mag and 45-70 this week, I did gas check them so I can make a comparison to my standard loadings.

74440

[popper]

xaces - I meant the PC powder, not smokeless, sorry I didn't clarify that.

[Smoke4320]

308 Win Lee 230 Subsonic.. Pic says it all...74463 including loading data . recovered 1 boolet..
PC was not removed or damaged on base from firing..Recovered 4/5's way thru 50 lb bag of sand laying on its side

[xacex]

xaces - I meant the PC powder, not smokeless, sorry I didn't clarify that.

Do you think there will be a difference regarding accuracy with different colors of P/C? That could be a problem, but then we would need to also talk about gloss level, polyester vs epoxy, cure time, and pigment content. There are so many variables I think it would take ten years to find the best option. I am hoping there is not much of a difference to cause an issue with pistol loads. If there is difference I would bet it would be between poly vs epoxy, and flat vs gloss. After I get a smokeless choice nailed down that comparison can be done next, but without a Ransom rest I think those comparisons would be inconclusive.

[popper]

I'm thinking more along the brand or some colorants causing problems. I'm using HF, white and red so far without problems but if there is a better one I'd switch. I'm sure it is the 'low-end' powder. I've heard cerocoat doesn't work well. I am assuming that the coating is applied properly in all cases. So far my conclusions in pistol and rifle are that there is no leading, I can push faster with the same alloy, no smoke, same or better accuracy. Next step is to toughen my alloy a tad and push harder.

[awhiteha]

I would be interested in my 357 mag, 356 GNR (41 magnum necked down to 357, clocking from 1600 to 2300 fps), 44 magnum, & maybe 338 win mag.

[popper]

74529
Ones on right I will recoat, no bad bumps on the ogive but not complete on the bands. Left are g2g after I clip the pins and size. All were WD after coating. Less than 3 hrs work, 20 min x 2 in the oven. Should last the summer, for rifle. Sized 200 last nite, no lube, no problem . The 40SW turned out fine but I don't think it's worth the time over just leaving the nose bare. This is a new Cu alloy to test.

[DeanWinchester]

So what's the highest (accurate) velocity any of y'all have achieved with this powder coating business? I'm trying to decide, I'm on the fence with this.

A friend is sending me some boolits I cast and he coated. I'm gonna give em whirl. I'm just wondering if I'm going to be abandoning the lube and check for this or not.

When I see hard evidence of 2500 fps or more, I may just have to invest.
I'm currently getting my first attempt at casting for 223 together. I'd hate to do a bunch of work and then jump ship to PCing.

[Smoke4320]

325 grn 458 socom ..no gas check .. 1650 ..no damage to base coating at all ...extremely accurate

[awhiteha]

I think we may have opened the door for lead bullets becoming an affordable and positive thing. It's just a matter of time before the big ammo companies start doing this. I know Federal does something similar with their guard dog ammo.

[xacex]

I think we may have opened the door for lead bullets becoming an affordable and positive thing. It's just a matter of time before the big ammo companies start doing this. I know Federal does something similar with their guard dog ammo.

Federal already did it and dumped it. Federal Nyclad is the same thing from what I can tell. Gun ammunition also produced them. 7456274563

I don't know why they got rid of them. Maybe it is to labor intensive for them to be profitable. I have read that the 125 grain 38 special were not +P and only made 825FPS. That, and the whole Black Talon thing with Winchester's coating may have made them shy away from anything that looked like it could go through a bullet proof vest.
That weird, I hit the back button while posting this and the photo's I put in are still there, and I cant dump them out.

[ChrisF]

Hi Guys ,

Any one using Eastwood spray guns & there powder coating powder ?

Is it good stuff for coating bullets for use in pistols etc ?

Cheers Chris

[DeanWinchester]

Has anyone had a successful attempt at powder coating hollow points?

I have a Lyman 311413 hollow point I'd really like to sort powder coating. They fall just a thousandth or two shy of being good for 7.62x54r and I'm thinking powder coating could put them right over the line. I don't want to use the tumble method and fill the cavity.

I first thought of a plate with finishing nails that fit the cavity but eventually the PC would build up and make the fixture unusable.
Could a man drill a plate with holes JUST big enough for the nose to barely fit in and stand up, covering the thing in aluminum foil first? Then use a PC gun to coat them. I'm going to get me a gun from harbor frieght soon.

It'll be a pain drilling fifty holes, evenly spaced with enough room so as not to over spray the other boolits, but its very doable. I wonder if the fin of powder coat that will undoubtedly be left effect accuracy at all? I wonder if one could use some 1000 grit paper after they're seated to gently wipe that fin off?

This is pretty exciting stuff!

[popper]

Eastwood was $$, HF works for me. Dean, my AR-308 GC load should be ~ 2500 per Hodgdon book, give or take a little for lead & PC. Shoots the same as an Amax at the same load. May be faster with oven brite PC as some have indicated. Edit: look at a brad nail gun punched through thin wood or cardboard and layered over foil. With HF discount or sale the brad nailer is ~$30. If the point gets coated just dump & make another rig. Actually that CB is close to the FP I'm using, will probably depend on how depth of the HP, you could do the pin nails like I do and clip them. I tried sticking in a hole but got ridges on the nose that caused feed problems.
I don't shoot 223 or 3 gun, looking for quality loads with no feed problems so I take my time casting & coating.

[DeanWinchester]

Eastwood was $$, HF works for me. Dean, my AR-308 GC load should be ~ 2500 per Hodgdon book, give or take a little for lead & PC. Shoots the same as an Amax at the same load. May be faster with oven brite PC as some have indicated. I don't shoot 223 or 3 gun, looking for quality loads with no feed problems so I take my time casting & coating.

I take my time too. My 223 loads will be for a bolt gun so volume isn't necessarily paramount. Quality is.

[popper]

Dean - sync problem - reread my last edited post.

[Smoke4320]

where do you get "oven brite PC"

[fcvan]

Dean, I PC hollow points using Harbor Freight flat black powder. When coating, I put my boolits on a thin sheet of aluminum. After coating and baking they snap right off. I'm not having a problem with excess at the base on pistol boolits because of this. I tend to shoot the powder at a high angle, sometimes straight over the top and just don't seem to be getting too much at the base.

For gas check boolits I am using two methods. With my 225-415 boolits I made a tray from thin aluminum and drilled so that the check shank of the boolit is sitting in the hole. After PC and bake, the boolits snap out. With my 30 cal boolits I glued some gas checks onto some thin aluminum flashing and stand the boolits up in the checks. After PC and bake those boolits also snap right off. In the pictures below you can see the tray, and the HP boolit, as well as some others. I put some plain based gas checks onto so PCd boolits just because they looked cool, not because they need them.

74588

74589

[DeanWinchester]

I just grabbed a 91/30 and if I can powder coat my hollow point boolits to match FMJ loads, the Belarus scope I have that's calibrated for 7,62x54 will work Nd this would be a devastating ....and cheap rifle for sure.

How hot and how long are we baking these things for? If we're to use the brad nail and cardboard method, wouldn't the cardboard try to burn?

[xacex]

Has anyone had a successful attempt at powder coating hollow points?

I have a Lyman 311413 hollow point I'd really like to sort powder coating. They fall just a thousandth or two shy of being good for 7.62x54r and I'm thinking powder coating could put them right over the line. I don't want to use the tumble method and fill the cavity.

I first thought of a plate with finishing nails that fit the cavity but eventually the PC would build up and make the fixture unusable.
Could a man drill a plate with holes JUST big enough for the nose to barely fit in and stand up, covering the thing in aluminum foil first? Then use a PC gun to coat them. I'm going to get me a gun from harbor frieght soon.

It'll be a pain drilling fifty holes, evenly spaced with enough room so as not to over spray the other boolits, but its very doable. I wonder if the fin of powder coat that will undoubtedly be left effect accuracy at all? I wonder if one could use some 1000 grit paper after they're seated to gently wipe that fin off?

This is pretty exciting stuff!

Look back to post #984. The jig I did to do hollowpoints is still working fine with a very thick coat of powder now. As long as you have boolits on the nails the P/C wont build up there so it is not an issue. Seating a gas check after powder coat could be an issue. You might need to gas check before P/C.

[DeanWinchester]

Look back to post #984. The jig I did to do hollowpoints is still working fine with a very thick coat of powder now. As long as you have boolits on the nails the P/C wont build up there so it is not an issue. Seating a gas check after powder coat could be an issue. You might need to gas check before P/C.


Funny, I was just about to ask about that. Is a gas check even necessary? I plan to use them regardless, I have pat marlin gas check maker. Nothing's wrong with redundant systems yeah?
I plan to check, size, powder coat then size again.

[popper]

Cardboard doesn't burn, wood won't either but may warp. I',m using 311 to place GC, 310 after PCing. I don't use lube either time, don't clean them either, PC still sticks well. Make sure the sizer is clean before using so the PC doesn't get scratched. Nice thing about the nail gun is you can experiment with spacing - don't need to drill holes, just do over. Some here have used pop rivets with the nail still in or drywall screws. Just make a bed of nails out of something, it'll work.

[xacex]

Funny, I was just about to ask about that. Is a gas check even necessary? I plan to use them regardless, I have pat marlin gas check maker. Nothing's wrong with redundant systems yeah?
I plan to check, size, powder coat then size again.

Try it both ways to see what works best. The hardest I have pushed a non-gas checked P/C boolit was approximately 1100 FPS. The base dis-formed, and accuracy suffered in my case. I was using them in a 9mm and way overcharged with Bulls eye since I had loaded them with a magnum primer and didn't drop down my charge. +P+ for sure and would go through 4 jugs of water at 7 yards. All that and no leading. The P/C stayed intact on the boolit. I am starting from scratch for the P/C boolits to see where they will perform best. Just loaded some 312-155-2R G/C'ed in blackout cases to see how they do in a rifle. I am using 16.5G lil-gun which has worked well in cast and jacketed for me. These are a comparison between epoxy P/C (harbor freight), and the polyester P/C I picked off of flea-bay. 74600

Looks like KTW armor piercing green, and and Winchester Black talons. To bad they never made ammunition for the Blackout.

[ChrisF]

I am looking at Eastwood , as they will ship to me in New Zealand , where HF will not , so it dosnt matter IF HF are cheaper , when they will not send to me .

Cheers Chris

[bayjoe]

Do you water drop when you cast and after powder coating?
I just wonder it this would make bullets a tad bit harder.
Also do you let the bullets age before powder coating or after or does it matter?

[DeanWinchester]

I wouldn't think aging them would have any benefit at all.

[Smoke4320]

Using HF powder (both red and black) I only preheat boolits to 300 for 10 minutes coat and heat again for 10 Minutes at 300 .. as an experiment after 2 days ..sized and no coating is removed even when boolit is .002 over the finish sizing..
the lead still seems to needs the approx 30 days to age harden using 50% lead 48% COWW and 2% tin or 98% COWW and 2% tin YMMV

[popper]

I'm using the HF ES gun, don't preheat, just coat, cook & WD for rifle. Yes it does make a difference, by my tests. Hardness of coating is only H-2H per their data sheet. The alloy needs to fit the application but the PC will add a few BHN points. I think my PC plain base 30-30 are about 1800, trying for ~2000 next round. Alloy is 1-2% Sb HT. Accuracy is close to GC @ ~2000.

[KYShooter73]

I'm doing PC using HF equipment and powder. I have a bottle of red, not yet used, and am on my third bottle of matte black. I know a lot of people use powder by the pound. Has anyone yet discovered one type of powder that is preferable over another, and if so what specific powder and why?

Second, I'm using a jig for hollow points, 68 machine screws sticking up through a pan. After cleaning with acetone, placing the boolits while wearing rubber gloves, preheating for a few minutes, spraying, then baking at 400f for 30 minutes and allowing to cool, I can hammer my boolits flat with the powder coat still sticking.....except for the base, which don't adhere well and flakes off every time. Anyone have a cure for that?

74708

[DeanWinchester]

I did my first (50) this morning. Using HF gun and PC. I did a hollow point version of a Lyman 311413 with a hornady gas check in place. I sized to .311 first and they came out .312 on the button. After they have cooled I will size them back to .311 again. I think what I need to do here is get me a .310 sizer and coat them the same without resizing afterwards.
I am VERY happy. This is really easy considering Ive never done this. The coating around the base and driving bands is flawless, even and looks great. Because I coated them inverted on a bed of nails, the very tip portion of the boolit does have some weak spots. THis can't really effect accuracy or cause leading can it? It doesn't touch anything. I think I will stuff some over about 25.0g of AA2015 in a .308 case and see what happens.

I know I did waste a little bit. Not as much as I thought but still. I think what I need is a lined box, open on one end and a lazy susan so I can spin them buggers around.
I baked them at 400 degrees for 15 minutes and did not preheat the boolits.

I'm really happy with the results first time out. The camera is on the charger, I will get some pictures up later today.

[DeanWinchester]

Okay, be brutally honest. I need to do these again don't I? The coating looks a little thin to me. Another reason I am considering a .309 or .310 sizer first.
http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd371/Reloadingfool/DSC02911_zps886a6a4a.jpg

[DeanWinchester]

One good thing, THe hollow point cavity did not get anything in it and no little fins on the nose either.

[popper]

I wouldn't recoat, they look like my 308 that shoot fine. Imperfect coating on the nose won't effect accuracy, just chamber a few & see if there are any scraped areas. I would clean the sizer, a few have a minor scrape (dark streaks). Use the larger sizer to just apply the GC, size to what you want after coating. Is you load pretty lite? Casting imperfections sure show up after coating.

[Smoke4320]

They look just fine ... I have had worse and shot them to see results and got no leading

[DeanWinchester]

More of a medium load. I want around the 2,000 fps area. Wherever accuracy is. More than that is wasteful and too slow and they may not expand as much as I like. At 2K they should expand dramatically.

[DeanWinchester]

Ive been playing with it a bit today. I do it in a kitty litter bucket now, on a lazy susan. I built the platform from plywood. Networked the nails with copper and then covered it in aluminum foil. The kitty littler bucket allows me to reclaim over spray.
http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd371/Reloadingfool/DSC02912_zpsb54755b9.jpg
http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd371/Reloadingfool/DSC02913_zps39893b78.jpg
http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd371/Reloadingfool/DSC02914_zps83305c99.jpg

[DeanWinchester]

'Nother question. P/ced some Lee 155 spitzers. I gas checked and sized them first then coated them.
Is there any reason they won't work if the base isn't coated? I just stood them nose up. I can't see why the base would need to be coated. What's the current school of thought on that?

[xacex]

'Nother question. P/ced some Lee 155 spitzers. I gas checked and sized them first then coated them.
Is there any reason they won't work if the base isn't coated? I just stood them nose up. I can't see why the base would need to be coated. What's the current school of thought on that?

No problem with not coating the base of the gas check. I made a jig for those which is just holes in aluminum plate that the non gas checked boolits fit into. Gas check and shoot. I need to use a non stick foil over the plate. The experimental piece had to much build up after 3 spays.

[Skip62]

A buddy reminded me of the Precision Moly bullets and their test of heating the bullet with a torch. So I tried it.

The black is regular HF PC. The grey is powder coat primer, it's still powder coat though.

74750

A better picture, but not my much....lol

74751


I remembered a little late to try a video, and I was in a hurry at that point, so excuse the poor
framing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V1on6J0exU

[DeanWinchester]

Boy, this sure changes things. What chambered with ease now engraves fairly heavy now. Seating a touch deeper solves it. The boolit now measures .305 around the nose area. I found a seating depth that allows fairly easy closing of the bolt and extraction requires a mild snap. You can clearly see the rifling engraved but it doesn't get into lead,the powder coat still holds.
I've got a few loaded, gonna try to make it to the range Sunday morning.

[bayjoe]

Dean
From your description it sounds like your powder coating might be a little heavy.
I size mine after coating just to make sure all my boolits are uniform
Another question would be, IF the bullets weren't aged would they shrink and cause leading?

[popper]

Dean. Try lowering the air pressure a tad and just puffing the powder from the side, then give a shot to the base. The nose gets coated but not thick. If nose gets too large it will hang in my lever & AR, not good. Plan on trying the piglet method but don't know if I can control the nose as well.

[bayjoe]

When I first pull the trigger on my powder coating gun, I hold it off the boolits. Then I only squeeze the trigger about half way and when it gets a nice low mist I coat the bullets. This works for me to give a nice uniform coat

[DeanWinchester]

Yeah, I think I got all excited and carried away. I'm going to pause for a bit until my .309 sizer comes in. Then I can size down and P/C back up again.

[DeanWinchester]

Hey! 35.0g of Varget under a 100g plain base boolit, powder coated in a Contender Super 14 30/30 gave mediocre accuracy but produced ZERO leading. In fact, the bore was cleaner AFTER shooting them. Previously I had shot some 200g spitzer boolits over 7.0g of Unique. After shooting the P/C boolits, the bore was shiny!

Powder coating WORKS! If they were gonna lead, I would think a case full of Varget and a plain base boolit wold do it. Don't you?

[popper]

10" bbl, so you get 1700+ fps? Still pretty good.

[DangerousDrummer]

My second attempt a accuracy using PC 160 gn .312 bullets in my Mosin was disappointing. About the best I could do was 4 in groups at 50 yds pushed by 37 gn I3031. I have now tried loads from 35.5 to 46 gn and the 37 was best. My typical load ladders are 5 ea at .5 gn intervals. Once I have the best , I then build 5 ea at .1 gn intervals covering a 1 gn spread. I unloaded all rounds of PC over 43 as 42.5s with the PC were not even on paper, with one even slapping the backing sideways.

Shooting Hornady 312 interlocks with 42.4 gns I3031 results in all bullets through the same hole at 50 yds. I do not think it is the PC, but likely just shooting cast at higher velocities. I need to find some tin to harden my ww lead which might help, although the same bullet copper plated shot 2 moa.

I am not giving up on this, as buying bullets @25 cents and over is expensive to shoot. My 420 gn PCs in my AR 458 still shoot with amazing accuracy, so the big slow bullets work well cast and PCed. I am ordering a 7/8 oz mold and rifled barrel for the Mossberg 500 so I will be casting and PCing shotgun slugs. I bet they will work well as the biggest complaint about slugs in a rifled barrel is leading, and I have had no leading with any PC bullets in any caliber. (no leading is worthless though, if you can't hit what you are aiming at)

Note: I did weigh each bullet and adjust every one to within .1 gn just to make sure that there was not a bullet weight difference.

[dverna]

DD

Why would you coat a slug? It is held by the wad until it exits the barrel - assuming you are using the Lee 7/8 oz slug.

Anyway, I have followed the PC, Piglet, and Hy-Tek threads and came to the conclusion that PC was to much of a PITA. My gut tells me Hy-Tek holds the most promise but only if it does the trick for getting over 2400 fps with accuracy and minimal leading.


Lastly, I wish to thank you for posting your results. There is a lot of talk about the good features of every method but not much data on accuracy - and for me - that is all that counts. A "pretty" bullet that does not lead is useless if it will not shoot. I do not get very much leading (if any) with pistol bullets so going through the gymnastics of having more equipment and a slower process offers no incentive to change.

I have no horse in this race but follow with interest.


Don Verna

[popper]

Dangerous - tin wouldn't do much to harden. I'm assuming GCd. Use sulfur or copper and antimony, WD after coating. IMHO you need the BHN of #2 but you can get it without the extra SB & Sn. My 1:10 308 with a case full of 4895 gives more stripping force than your larger case - slower twist mosin. Same with my 1:10 30-30.

[AverageJoe]

With 3 pans with 100 CB on each pan, baking 15-18 mins @ 375 deg. I am making about 400 bullets an hour. I can actually put 2 pans in at once, if I was real energetic. As far as I am concerned, this is the cat's meow. I water drop, so the set-up time moves right along.

[Russel Nash]

Federal already did it and dumped it. Federal Nyclad is the same thing from what I can tell. Gun ammunition also produced them. 7456274563

I don't know why they got rid of them. Maybe it is to labor intensive for them to be profitable. I have read that the 125 grain 38 special were not +P and only made 825FPS. That, and the whole Black Talon thing with Winchester's coating may have made them shy away from anything that looked like it could go through a bullet proof vest.
That weird, I hit the back button while posting this and the photo's I put in are still there, and I cant dump them out.

I would think that a big outfit like Federal could use an "air bed" to powder coat bullets, in bulk. Probably about 10 pages back or maybe even more, I had brought up air beds, because to me, at least in my mind, to handle each boolit by hand is inefficient.

So I doubt it was a matter of the manpower used to NYCLAD the bullets at Federal. It's not like they were paying some guy $20 an hour to individually place boolits on a cookie sheet and placing the cookie sheet in a toaster oven. Just for the record, I have millwright'ed at Olin and Century Brassworks, so from my experience at least with "Winchester", nothing is done on a small scale.

[Russel Nash]

How are you guys doing boolits for rifle meant to go over 2,000 fps?

Do you use gas checks?

If so, do you powder coat first and then attach the gas checks?

Is accuracy really that bad without the gas check?

I am just trying to plan ahead with whatever .308-ish mould to buy for my AR in 7.62X39Russian.

[Russel Nash]

DD

Why would you coat a slug? It is held by the wad until it exits the barrel - assuming you are using the Lee 7/8 oz slug.

Anyway, I have followed the PC, Piglet, and Hy-Tek threads and came to the conclusion that PC was to much of a PITA. My gut tells me Hy-Tek holds the most promise but only if it does the trick for getting over 2400 fps with accuracy and minimal leading.


Lastly, I wish to thank you for posting your results. There is a lot of talk about the good features of every method but not much data on accuracy - and for me - that is all that counts. A "pretty" bullet that does not lead is useless if it will not shoot. I do not get very much leading (if any) with pistol bullets so going through the gymnastics of having more equipment and a slower process offers no incentive to change.

I have no horse in this race but follow with interest.


Don Verna

If there is one thing I have learned in life just in general, but more specifically with guns and reloading is that everything has its pro's and con's.

I'd trade off some accuracy for a cheaper boolit (bullet) that I can actually make myself, right NOW! versus a j-word bullet that has been on back order for 6 months.

EDIT: as far as DangerousDrummer buying a rifled slug barrel for the Mossberg 500, I was under the impression that you were supposed to shoot sabot slugs through a rifled barrel. I have taken apart the uber expensive sabot slugs, and IIRC, it was basically like a jacketed bullet meant for like a .375 H&H, captured inside a thicker plastic wad, which had hooks on it. These hooks or claws kept the bullet from departing from the wad/shell prior to loading or during the loading process, from mag tube, to lifter, to chamber. Then it was just the plastic wad that engaged the rifling.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

[DCM]

I believe the rifled slug barrels are intended for sabots, But a good friend of mine has had Excellent results using full bore slugs out of his(better than mine with sabots at 1/2 the cost :cry:).

[bangerjim]

How much crimp are you guys using on pistol casings with PC boolits? I have not been able to recover any slugs (indoor range) to see what is left and was wondering if too much crimp will scrape off the PC.

I am using a modest crimp now.

Please post your thoughts and what you have seen.

Bangerjim

[gds]

I have been following this thread for a while. I tried the tumbling method but had less than stellar results. I would get a descent batch but then could not repeat it. Finally broke down and bought the Harbor freight powder coating system. i am hooked


http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/reloading%20stuff/0705131758_zps84fc5d07.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/reloading%20stuff/0705131703_zps60bace80.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/reloading%20stuff/0705132009_zps4780edaa.jpg

[AverageJoe]

GDS, welcome to the club...careful it's addictive.

[Russel Nash]

That would be cool for .300 blackout. One color for the subsonic rounds, a different color for the super sonics. Assuming the same weight or shape of boolit.

[LongGun1]

That would be cool for .300 blackout. One color for the subsonic rounds, a different color for the super sonics. Assuming the same weight or shape of boolit.

That is exactly what I have been thinking...

..color coding the various 300 BLK loads.

[gds]

my next goal is to do a bunch of the 160gr lee in the 4 colors that I have and load em up in .308 and then link them up for my 1919 alternating the colors.:mrgreen:

[Russel Nash]

You have a 1919? Nice!

I finally made it over to my friend's place. Here is his trolley:

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/gryphon1994/5B39B078-DA38-4EAE-B3E6-D9430DD7A6DE-68-0000000DC88A4EE5_zps0de28ece.jpg

And here is his powder coat oven:

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/gryphon1994/9912A8D0-54A1-4CD3-8CE4-240DEFC5699E-68-0000000DE095D4F6_zps9610cb4c.jpg

I was puzzled by how he got the trolley wheeled in there. He opens the door, then sticks a piece of uni-strut in there, clamps it in place, wheels the trolley into the oven, removes the trolley "bridge", then closes the door. It's pretty slick set up.

[gds]

Yep did a thread on it several years back.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?38487-Cast-in-a-1919-Belt-fed-semi

[DeanWinchester]

When doing a round nose plain base pistol boolit, has anyone noticed if there's any discernible difference if the base is not coated? I can't imagine it would be. I just coated a few for 9mm and velocity will be under 1000 fps and I've never had leading from tumble lube.

Just curious.

[popper]

Dean - I got a little higher fps with accuracy when base coated, no leading base uncoated in 40sw. I would at least try to get the bevel coated on a BB, base edge coated on a FB.

[DeanWinchester]

Okay, I got another question. Totally off the wall here, but.....I wonder if this could cure the age old woes of running cast bullets in 6.5x55 Swede???

If one were to powder coat a gas check cast boolit for the swede, I wonder if it'd allow one to run it faster with accuracy? I've proven to myself that this stuff absolutely will not lead when done right.

.....hmmm, the plot thickens.

[Smoke4320]

Okay, I got another question. Totally off the wall here, but.....I wonder if this could cure the age old woes of running cast bullets in 6.5x55 Swede???

If one were to powder coat a gas check cast boolit for the swede, I wonder if it'd allow one to run it faster with accuracy? I've proven to myself that this stuff absolutely will not lead when done right.

.....hmmm, the plot thickens.

I just gas check installed powdercoated some Lee 309-155's for the Blackout and 308 with the same idea in mind.. Hope to test this out this weekend ..
Will post results .. if the gulf storm does not rain me out

[popper]

I wonder if this could cure the age old woes of running cast bullets in 6.5x55 Swede??? Don't have a swede but my 308 PC over GC works as well as bare GC and is easier for me. I think BMiller said he had trouble with the HF red in 223 leaving a residue in the bbl, ~ 2700 fps. Others used a better powder and didn't have a problem. I think someone here did a 243 and it worked OK. Hitek gold is supposed to work better for HV rifle, and the cost has gone down to where it is <$ than the better powders.

[Nickle]

Well, I'll wager a key part of the 6.5x55 problem is bullet diameter.

So, has anybody tried this system using boolits from 311 molds in a 303 British yet? 311, not 314.

Seems that would be a closer match to the problem.

[DeanWinchester]

Well, I'll wager a key part of the 6.5x55 problem is bullet diameter.

So, has anybody tried this system using boolits from 311 molds in a 303 British yet? 311, not 314.

Seems that would be a closer match to the problem.


I have a mold that drops .312-.313 and I have successfully p/c'd the up to .315 then sized back to .314 for my Mosin Nagant. They look great too! Well know soon enough if they work.

[Russel Nash]

I made these in zombie color.
http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af88/sbeatty1983/IMG_0296_zps7e2bdc9b.jpg (http://s996.photobucket.com/user/sbeatty1983/media/IMG_0296_zps7e2bdc9b.jpg.html)

Where did you get that particular powder coat color?

Thanks!

[sbeatty1983]

I found it on ebay, it was listed as lime green. the seller doesnt have any items up for sale right now, but if you would like I can send you his name. I paid $15.50 for a pound of it. Looks great in person, but if you cook it too long it dulls and darkens.

[Russel Nash]

I'll talk to my powder coating friend first. He gave me a color sample booklet the other day. I think Cardinal was the manufacturer or distributor. I don't remember seeing a lime green in the booklet.

[KYShooter73]

Need to order some more powder. Ive used Harbor Freight so far, but wondering what type of powder people are having the most luck with, epoxy, polyester, or polyurethane? Going to go with a more gloss type finish this time rather than the matte black. The Harbor Freight says it is epoxy based.

[popper]

I've used the HF white & red so far and it's been OK for me. I'm going to try the HiTek stuff instead of the >$25/# + shipping fancier powders. Bout $50 for 1/2L which should do > 10K CBs. That + the 2# of powder I have should last the rest of my shooting life.

[joemoe]

Don't know if anyone seen this at 300blktalk forum but i might give it a try. Its a pain trying to cleanup dust from PC, this might be the ticket for a more dust free boolit coating with PC powder.

http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=84219

[bangerjim]

That is the "piglet" method as discussed here in great length in a thread by the same name.

I cannot get it to work at all with HF powders. Every example I have seen uses colors NOT in the HF store!!!!!! And I cannot see paying $20/pound for powder (cost + shipping!). No shop locally will sell me powder and the thieves online charge way too much.

I am stickin' with the PC gun method. Black is awsum. Red works very well. Yellow is very poor.....more ends up on the tray than on the slug. Haven't tried white yet......but white boolits will look weird.

bangerjim

[joemoe]

That is the "piglet" method as discussed here in great length in a thread by the same name.

I cannot get it to work at all with HF powders. Every example I have seen uses colors NOT in the HF store!!!!!! And I cannot see paying $20/pound for powder (cost + shipping!). No shop locally will sell me powder and the thieves online charge way too much.

I am stickin' with the PC gun method. Black is awsum. Red works very well. Yellow is very poor.....more ends up on the tray than on the slug. Haven't tried white yet......but white boolits will look weird.

bangerjim

Hmm thx for pointing me out to the piglet method. One big difference I see is that this guy keep stressing to use Lacquer thinner instead of the Acetone used in the piglet method. If it works it would seem to save a lot of powder since very little is needed. But only a test will tell how well it works if at all. So far I've been very happy with the PC result from the HF gun, but powder cleanup is a chore after a few rounds of coating. If this method does not work, I guess I will have to research in building myself a Powder Coating Booth to cut down on the dust ...:grin:

[bangerjim]

Hmm thx for pointing me out to the piglet method. One big difference I see is that this guy keep stressing to use Lacquer thinner instead of the Acetone used in the piglet method. If it works it would seem to save a lot of powder since very little is needed. But only a test will tell how well it works if at all. So far I've been very happy with the PC result from the HF gun, but powder cleanup is a chore after a few rounds of coating. If this method does not work, I guess I will have to research in building myself a Powder Coating Booth to cut down on the dust ...:grin:

Don't know how you are "gunning" your slugs, but I have VERY little powder anywhere than on the slugs and the base they are setting on. I do NOT use any kind of a booth like I have hear others use.

KEY FACTORS: Use low (12-18#) air pressure. Use low flow. Only put about 1" of powder in the jar.

Look back in this thread at my pix of how I modified the gun setup using 1/4" aquarium tubing for air supply. Powder should flow gently or "puff" out.....not flood out!

You should not see that mess your are talking about. The 1st 3 trials I did were actually INSIDE by reloading shop which is 10x12 and I only had a very light coat of powder around the tray. The static electricity from the electronics is supposed to attract the powder and prevent "overspray" It really does work! Now I do it all outside the shop on a Workmate. There is no powder on the brick patio or anywhere else. Only a very light coat right around the parameter of the tray.....And of course on the boolits! One coat does it every time

PM me if you need any further discussions and ideas on improving your set-up. I hate all those cables and hoses so I am replacing with jacks and plugs for ease of set-up and storage.

Bangerjim

[Russel Nash]

I am about to head over to my buddy's place to pick up some stuff he powder coated for me. I will ask what he pays for powder. I'll also ask about solvents for the piglet method.

[Dolomite_supafly]

*****

[gds]

I tested some powder coated boolits into wet phone books. Out of my 300 blk 9.5 inch barrel

215 gr modified Lee 235 gr to hollow point. 980 fps

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/reloading%20stuff/0705131758_zps7bd819cb.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/reloading%20stuff/0705131945_zps85efcf71.jpg



Lee 160 gr and a old lyman I think, 120 gr with exposed tips The 160 gr was going 1625fps and the 120 gr was going 1790 fps

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/gdsjr/reloading%20stuff/0713131928a_zps9f744af2.jpg

[popper]

I will suggest that when posting results, please indicate who's powder is being used. The HF white has worked great for me in 40SW & 308 My spray booth is now made of plastic election signs (also use em for targets) glued together, used the the garage. I can scrape the excess out, not much sticks to the sides. I do have an extra removable piece for the top which really helps. If I go over 10psi I get it on the floor.

[Russel Nash]

Good write up: ^^^

EDIT: good write up Dolomite_Supafly!!!

My buddy says what he pays for powder depends on how much he gets. He has lots of plastic jars around filled with powder. IIRC, he says a 50 pound box will come out to $7 a pound.

As far as tumbling them with lacquer thinner or acetone, my buddy had not heard of that. I then relayed to him about the Sandstrom 27A liquid, and how I suspected the big 3 moly/poly coated bullet makers probably used something like a heated cement/mortar mixer.

The Sandstrom 27A liquid had a lot of MEK in it. So it would be "hot" but I wonder if it would dissolve the powder coat better???

[bangerjim]

I have tried every solvent know to man in my struggles to get the HF powder to dissolve. MEK does not work either during my trials.....just a bunch of mush in the bottom of the container. Mabe high quality powders NOT from HF?????

bangerjim

[jmort]

Dolomite Supafly wrote over at .300 Blackout forum "Lacquer Thinner not Acetone." He is using Powder By the Pound. He stated that:

"The Harbor Freight powder seems to be a little more finicky than the Powder By The Pound powder. They also sell 2 ounce bags of it for like $3 to try out and 2 ounces goes quite a ways. I bought the 400 degree polyester TGIC powder. There may be better powders out there but I am happy with the results.

Knowing what I know now I would not buy HF powder. It can be made to work but it is less forgiving."
http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=84219&start=20

[Russel Nash]

Dolomite Supafly wrote:

...If anyone is interested I can also detail my method of tumble coating and baking bullets.

Okay, I'm all ears. You could post here in this thread or possibly in the piglet method thread. I don't which would be easier to find for later reading. Of course, if your technique is substantially different than piglet's, you could always start your own thread too. I am not a moderator... Just trying to be helpful... Beggars can't be choosers.

[Dolomite_supafly]

*****

[jmort]

^ Good - I like your procedures/recommendations. Thanks for the info. Sorry for the lack of specific attribution.

[Maximumbob54]

I wonder if there is any value in adding the HBN powder to powder coat as it is mixing?

[Dolomite_supafly]

*****

[Maximumbob54]

You plan on shooting faster than 3,200 fps? I had ZERO leading up to 3,200 fps in my testing. The results are on the previous page.

Personally 3,200 fps will cover everything I will likely ever shoot.


I was just thinking out loud. Also:

"If anyone is interested I can also detail my method of tumble coating and baking bullets."

Well, since I have both some HF powder and some PBTP powder on its way to me and I have a toaster I'm picking up Friday I would love to know what steps you used as I would like to do my best to copy them. I read the whole thread about switching to laquer thinner and that's right now what I plan on doing my best to copy.

[Skip62]

Dolomite_Supafly, Thank you! Lacquer Thinner is much easier to work with and you only need 1 coat. I think if you did 2 thinner coats it might look better, but I don't care.

I used silicone base high heat, and it sticks to the bucket, so I'll order some of the polyester, cuz a clean bucket is just cool....:lol:

[xacex]

Dolomite Supafly,

I would like to see your results with the coated .223's that you shot without gas checks. You stated you got them to 3200fps without the coating coming off, but did they hit a plate at a 100 yards?

[bangerjim]

Keep in mind Acetone is just that .....ACETONE......no matter the brand.

Laq thinner is made up of (guess what) ...........Acetone (!) and various other hydrocarbon solvents. I have 4 different brands of LT in my shop. Each is a different mix, smells different, and acts totally different.

2 examples of different brands:

#1 Acetone, ethyl acetate, methanol, distillates, and toluene.

#2 Methanol, acetone, toluene, MEK, butyl acetate.

As you can see, even though they sold as "LT", they are totally different formulations and act in different ways.


I have tried all of these four LT products as well as the individual components ( I have them all) to dissolve the HF powder and it will NOT dissolve, only suspend for a short time and leave a very lumpy uneven coat.

Electrostatic gun application, be it with the HF for Eastwood gun, is the only to go.


Bangerjim :guntootsmiley:

[popper]

Dolomite Supafly Darn - now I gotta try 308 w/o GC. Got any targets to post? HF works with GC. Works in 30-30 w/o GC. None are light or plinker loads, no, I'll never get to 3K fps. I'm satisfied with the HF in 40SW but coated & sized some with H-T today for comparison ( 5gr 231 under a 165 TC FB). Ordered a 9mm 130 TC 4x with shallow lube grooves yesterday, as I'll only be coating from now on.

[cstrickland]

Dolomite Supafly,

I would like to see your results with the coated .223's that you shot without gas checks. You stated you got them to 3200fps without the coating coming off, but did they hit a plate at a 100 yards?


I am really interested in seeing what accuracy was as well. Hell I will settle fir 2700, as long as accuracy is good . 3300 would just be icing on the cake

[Skip62]

Hey Dolomite_supafly, are you only coating once? When I tried it, I got enough for one coat, and they didn't looked pretty good but I think 2 thin coats might look better. Any idea?

[clocker]

I was intrigued by the lacquer thinner method and tried last night. I used some Eastwood HotCoat lime green PC with a 3 parts LT to 1 part PC mix (note to self, Lee powder dippers are not lacquer thinner approved). I swirled the boolits for about a minute before they got a decent coating. The mix looked pretty wet, so I kept swirling. After ~2 minutes the coating became very uniform, but thinned out and started to stick to the container. After ~3 minutes the coating started to firm up, but was very thin.

I'll have to try again with less LT. There's got to be an ideal point somewhere in there where the PC sets up perfect.

[sd61]

Just did a couple of batches today (piglet method). First, I used some gray 2 part floor epoxy paint which coated nice, only one coat seems to be enough (adds about .002" to the diameter). Second I used HFPC black which also coated nice and seems to add about the same thickness. I then got the idea of dumping the bullets into some powder talc right after tumbling, just when they become sticky. I tumbled them into the powder talc for about 1 minute and they got a very nice powdery look and feel to them. After that I blew some air on them to remove any excess powder and then cooked them in the oven for 20 min. @ 450F. They did not stick to each other or to the hardware cloth after removing them from the oven...Both batches (floor paint and HFPC with talc powder) sized quite nicely w/o any lube and paint stayed on the bullet. It seems that using the talc powder has some benefits, it remains to be seen how they perform in the barrel. I have the feeling that I'll get lower velocities because they are so slippery...Any thoughs on this?
On the picture below, talc powder coated ones on the left.
http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s527/sd61/HFPC/IMG-20130717-00154_zps387f2f08.jpg (http://s1304.photobucket.com/user/sd61/media/HFPC/IMG-20130717-00154_zps387f2f08.jpg.html)

[Keola5o4]

Hi all! I'm new to bullet casting and powder coating world, wondering if I need to do additional lubing before running the powder coated bullet through the sizing die?

[joemoe]

Hi all! I'm new to bullet casting and powder coating world, wondering if I need to do additional lubing before running the powder coated bullet through the sizing die?

Nope I just size them and shoot them after PC.

[Maximumbob54]

Just got my sample bags of powder in the mail yesterday. I need to pick up the lacquer thinner this afternoon.

Couple of questions though.

Is there a known brand of thinner that works better than another?

I've read to use either a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio but how are we doing this? It seems one person had already melted a Lee dipper. Can I just use a kitchen spoon that won't be used in the kitchen ever again? I would assume that would work if I level off the powder.

And I am assuming it is 3/4 thinner to 1 powder, correct?

[jmort]

Repeat of post 1185. See link for info

Dolomite Supafly wrote over at .300 Blackout forum "Lacquer Thinner not Acetone." He is using Powder By the Pound. He stated that:

"The Harbor Freight powder seems to be a little more finicky than the Powder By The Pound powder. They also sell 2 ounce bags of it for like $3 to try out and 2 ounces goes quite a ways. I bought the 400 degree polyester TGIC powder. There may be better powders out there but I am happy with the results.

Knowing what I know now I would not buy HF powder. It can be made to work but it is less forgiving."
http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=84219

[Skip62]

Hi all! I'm new to bullet casting and powder coating world, wondering if I need to do additional lubing before running the powder coated bullet through the sizing die?

I've done it without, but if the coating got thick on one, it's a real bummer to push through. Now I just spray a very little hornady one shoot in to the bucket of bullets and tumble that around.

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

[Skip62]

Just did a couple of batches today (piglet method). First, I used some gray 2 part floor epoxy paint which coated nice, only one coat seems to be enough (adds about .002" to the diameter). Second I used HFPC black which also coated nice and seems to add about the same thickness. I then got the idea of dumping the bullets into some powder talc right after tumbling, just when they become sticky. I tumbled them into the powder talc for about 1 minute and they got a very nice powdery look and feel to them. After that I blew some air on them to remove any excess powder and then cooked them in the oven for 20 min. @ 450F. They did not stick to each other or to the hardware cloth after removing them from the oven...Both batches (floor paint and HFPC with talc powder) sized quite nicely w/o any lube and paint stayed on the bullet. It seems that using the talc powder has some benefits, it remains to be seen how they perform in the barrel. I have the feeling that I'll get lower velocities because they are so slippery...Any thoughs on this?
On the picture below, talc powder coated ones on the left.
http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s527/sd61/HFPC/IMG-20130717-00154_zps387f2f08.jpg (http://s1304.photobucket.com/user/sd61/media/HFPC/IMG-20130717-00154_zps387f2f08.jpg.html)

Interesting. Does talc have any abrasive qualities?

[Keola5o4]

OK, push the 9mm powder coated bullet through my Lee sizer without lube, some came out alright but some get scratched up. Is there something I'm doing wrong? I'm using the red powder coat from harbor freight. Should I get a different brand?

[sd61]

Interesting. Does talc have any abrasive qualities?
Not really, on the contrary,it is often used as a dry lubricant...
http://www.eurotalc.eu/functionsapplication.html

[jmort]

"Should I get a different brand?"

Yes, Powder By the Pound. Look at post #1203

[Russel Nash]

Interesting. Does talc have any abrasive qualities?

My galled'ed sensitive areas say "MY GOD! I HOPE NOT!":shock:

[fastglock]

76509

My jig to hold the bullets. 9 more to go . i'll be making a tray that will stand 5 or 10 of these when ready for the oven. I'll post later of my plastic 55 gal drum spray booth set-up. These were rejected casts by the way,use for mocking up only. Finger tight only and could hang on it's side if I wanted to. powder gun from HF still in transit. Got some black from PowderByThePound. That's the best I could think of to get the least contact on the bullet during spraying and curing. Foil or masking tape to cover the bolts.

[Russel Nash]

But seriously, I have thrown talcum powder across a tablesaw's top to get wood to slide across easier. I have also sprinkled talcum powder on wood floors to eliminated squeaks when the planks rub together.

I think somebody in another thread said he was using olive oil to lube up the boolits before sizing them.

[Skip62]

Not really, on the contrary,it is often used as a dry lubricant...
http://www.eurotalc.eu/functionsapplication.html

Excellent
Next question, can it harm the powder?

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

[Skip62]

My galled'ed sensitive areas say "MY GOD! I HOPE NOT!":shock:

Blahahaha....good one

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

[Smoke4320]

OK, push the 9mm powder coated bullet through my Lee sizer without lube, some came out alright but some get scratched up. Is there something I'm doing wrong? I'm using the red powder coat from harbor freight. Should I get a different brand?

3 things come to mind on the coat coming off..
bullets are not clean (handling them with bare hands, getting your oil on them before spraying)

not getting a good cure.. I heat my bullets 10 minutes at 300 degrees spray and cure another 10 at 300 then wait 2 days to size.. YMMV

least likely....mold is not casting Round Bullets

I have done at least 2000 boolits with red and black HF Powder some very heavy coated .. I see more issues with not enough coating verses too much coating
sizing many from 459 down to 452 and almost none get any coating removed.. 314 thru a 311 sizer are nearly like butter

Pc'ing has opened a whole new world to me for boolits..

PS HF Powder is far from the best powder out there but works quite well in the spraying app....Red or Black .. the yellow is not so good for me ...

[sd61]

Excellent
Next question, can it harm the powder?

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2
I'll find out when I'll have a chance to shoot them (which won't happen for a while), but I don't expect any complications. The amount left of the bullet is next to nothing and additionally I'll gas check them also. Perhaps other people that use the piglet method should give this a try as well, I think you'll really like the end result...
Gas checked and sized, talc powder process on the right...
http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s527/sd61/HFPC/IMG-20130717-00158_zpsc60cbb72.jpg (http://s1304.photobucket.com/user/sd61/media/HFPC/IMG-20130717-00158_zpsc60cbb72.jpg.html)

[Skip62]

I'll find out when I'll have a chance to shoot them (which won't happen for a while), but I don't expect any complications. The amount left of the bullet is next to nothing and additionally I'll gas check them also. Perhaps other people that use the piglet method should give this a try as well, I think you'll really like the end result...
Gas checked and sized, talc powder process on the right...
http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s527/sd61/HFPC/IMG-20130717-00158_zpsc60cbb72.jpg (http://s1304.photobucket.com/user/sd61/media/HFPC/IMG-20130717-00158_zpsc60cbb72.jpg.html)

Look good, next batch I'm going to give it a go.

Did you use acetone or lacquer thinner?

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

[sd61]

76509

My jig to hold the bullets. 9 more to go . i'll be making a tray that will stand 5 or 10 of these when ready for the oven. I'll post later of my plastic 55 gal drum spray booth set-up. These were rejected casts by the way,use for mocking up only. Finger tight only and could hang on it's side if I wanted to. powder gun from HF still in transit. Got some black from PowderByThePound. That's the best I could think of to get the least contact on the bullet during spraying and curing. Foil or masking tape to cover the bolts.
That is pretty slick, I bet you'll get some nicely coated pils...I went away from using a PC gun because the process it's too laborious, given all the set up and cleaning required. Plus no matter how you do it, you still waste some powder. The piglet method seems so much easier and efficient, you won't get perfectly coated bullets, but that's OK for me, I chose functionality over cosmetics....

[sd61]

I used both, acetone and lacquer thinner, I don't really see any significant difference...

[popper]

Make sure your push thru is clean. I had some scrape off due to lead in the die. I don't use any lube at all for sizing PC or H-T coated. Talc is not abrasive at all. I don't clean before coating, nothing special at all. I cast, put em in a plastic jug, coat & size later. Load when I need some more.
They did not stick to each other or to the hardware cloth after removing them from the oven Talc is on top of PC which has hardened. The cooking cross links the polymer, not like the sprayed which has to melt and flow to cover.

[Skip62]

Talc is on top of PC which has hardened. The cooking cross links the polymer, not like the sprayed which has to melt and flow to cover.

Wait, I'm confused now. I thought the talc goes on while tumbling as the bullets start sticking together. Your saying after the bullets are cured in the oven? That's not going to do what I hoped.

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

[popper]

dumping the bullets into some powder talc right after tumbling, just when they become sticky. Talc after tumbling, before drying & cooking. Prevents sticking to grating.

[ryokox3]

I'll find out when I'll have a chance to shoot them (which won't happen for a while), but I don't expect any complications. The amount left of the bullet is next to nothing and additionally I'll gas check them also. Perhaps other people that use the piglet method should give this a try as well, I think you'll really like the end result...
Gas checked and sized, talc powder process on the right...


Would you be willing to sacrifice one of those HFPC talc ones to the hammer smash test for us?

[bangerjim]

I size ALL my bare UNLUBED boolits B-4 PCing. Do NOT have any streaks or distortions in the lead....it only makes them shiny on the grease grooves. Most of my molds drop at the exact size anyway, so sizing is just to make sure nothing slips thru.

Keola5o4: You must have lead or scratches in your die if you are getting streaks. Inspect closely and clean. Or your are making out-of-round slugs. Get out the old calipers and check.

Then I gun-coat (one coat) with HF black or red.... like Smoke 3420 said, yellow does not work! Bake @ 400F for 10 min, let cool naturally and run thru the size die again....NO lube.

I have coated many hundreds of slugs of various cal's and absolutely NONE of the coating comes off in the die. If there is a bit of flash on the base from powder collecting, that comes off in the die. No streaks, no missing chunks.....just pefect smooth-coated boolits. Using the HF semi-gloss black, sizing makes the high grease groove areas shiny, that's all.

I have pounded every size of boolit I PC almost flat (nose to base) on a heavy steel plate using a 4# mallet and the coating does not come off or flake. If the lead splits, then the coating does too, as expected!

Gun-coated PC is the best and perrrrrrrtiest method of coating.......anything! I use it to coat my lathe tool holders and other machine tools that regular epoxy paint is always flaking off of.

bangerjim

[fastglock]

That is pretty slick, I bet you'll get some nicely coated pils...I went away from using a PC gun because the process it's too laborious, given all the set up and cleaning required. Plus no matter how you do it, you still waste some powder. The piglet method seems so much easier and efficient, you won't get perfectly coated bullets, but that's OK for me, I chose functionality over cosmetics....

I'll be using a plastic 55gal drum as my spay booth with a window cut open on the side. Hopefully , with the setup I'm planning I'll have the least waste, fast process, nice PC boolits.

[Keola5o4]

Oh man thanks a lot for the tip, because I powder coat right after casting, no cleaning or anything, and bake for 300 degrees with a lite coat. The Lee sizer is brand new " which I was blaming that for a minute". So thanks again for pointing out different preparation.

[Skip62]

Talc after tumbling, before drying & cooking. Prevents sticking to grating.

Ok, that's what I was hoping, just got confused.
Thanks for clarifying.

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

[sd61]

Hammer smash test done. Used a 2.5 lbs. hammer and hit them quite hard (my alloy is about 13 BHN). Top ones are epoxy floor paint and bottom are HFPC black (used lacquer thinner on this batch, but acetone seems to perform just as good). Left side it's standard piglet method and right side are TP (talc powder) coated right after tumbling and before oven cooking.
Picture was taken in full sun and I scrapped off the paint at the tip to get a better idea of the adhesion. It looks like the epoxy floor paint performs as good as PC paint.
http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s527/sd61/HFPC/bulletsmash_zps85784cfe.jpg (http://s1304.photobucket.com/user/sd61/media/HFPC/bulletsmash_zps85784cfe.jpg.html)

[jmort]

Very interesting. Pictures tell us much about the two processes.

[ryokox3]

Hammer smash test done. Used a 2.5 lbs. hammer and hit them quite hard (my alloy is about 13 BHN). Top ones are epoxy floor paint and bottom are HFPC black (used lacquer thinner on this batch, but acetone seems to perform just as good). Left side it's standard piglet method and right side are TP (talc powder) coated right after tumbling and before oven cooking.
Picture was taken in full sun and I scrapped off the paint at the tip to get a better idea of the adhesion. It looks like the epoxy floor paint performs as good as PC paint.
http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s527/sd61/HFPC/bulletsmash_zps85784cfe.jpg (http://s1304.photobucket.com/user/sd61/media/HFPC/bulletsmash_zps85784cfe.jpg.html)

Thank you for the smash test. I tried the piglet method but have not yet perfected it. Once I do I think I'll try some talc. It does not seem to have hurt the durability at all.

[Rangefinder]

Talc after tumbling, before drying & cooking. Prevents sticking to grating.

Tried the same thing only with graphite yesterday--test firing in a few minutes actually. On the red, that graphite makes for an interesting effect. They sized reeeeal smooth and easy, too.

76562

[KYShooter73]

76509

My jig to hold the bullets. 9 more to go . i'll be making a tray that will stand 5 or 10 of these when ready for the oven. I'll post later of my plastic 55 gal drum spray booth set-up. These were rejected casts by the way,use for mocking up only. Finger tight only and could hang on it's side if I wanted to. powder gun from HF still in transit. Got some black from PowderByThePound. That's the best I could think of to get the least contact on the bullet during spraying and curing. Foil or masking tape to cover the bolts.

I like your jig and would like to see your results. As far as the overspray goes, it may sound hillbilly of me, but after about 15 coats I just set my jig on fire then brush it clean with a wire wheel.

[Skip62]

ok, new problem. Powder coat isn't curing. It's hard, but acetone will wipe it off. I tried some bullets that I did early on, and no problem, but the batch I did today....no bueno. Weird cuz the new powder I got today from PBTP is only 375 for 6 minutes, and I cooked it for 30 at 425(according to the dial on the oven). I tested some that I did yesterday with HFPC and it wiped too.

Can it be anything but not enough heat?

[seedeeze]

ok, new problem. Powder coat isn't curing. It's hard, but acetone will wipe it off. I tried some bullets that I did early on, and no problem, but the batch I did today....no bueno. Weird cuz the new powder I got today from PBTP is only 375 for 6 minutes, and I cooked it for 30 at 425(according to the dial on the oven). I tested some that I did yesterday with HFPC and it wiped too.

Can it be anything but not enough heat?

Use a thermometer to confirm your oven is reaching the desired temperature. Someone from the simple Hi-Tek coating thread was having a tough time until he found out his oven is not reaching the desired temp. Here is his post:


Looks like I found my problem.
1st I was using too much. Then I put a thermometer in the oven.
But secondly I had too much current loss using an extension cord on the oven. It wasn't getting much over 300°. Got rid of the extension cord, got it up to temp, and my bullets are looking beautiful!!!

Thanks everybody!!! Might have some pics later.

[xacex]

Tried the same thing only with graphite yesterday--test firing in a few minutes actually. On the red, that graphite makes for an interesting effect. They sized reeeeal smooth and easy, too.

76562

Alright! I asked about this awhile ago. Looks good to go so I did a batch myself of the MiHec 225-65. I did green PC, but they look completely black with the graphite powder. Course I tumbled them in the graphite powder after the PC setup enough.

[Skip62]

Use a thermometer to confirm your oven is reaching the desired temperature. Someone from the simple Hi-Tek coating thread was having a tough time until he found out his oven is not reaching the desired temp. Here is his post:

Well, I was in the garage baking and saw your post. I thought, this has to be it, so I moved the oven close to the outlet, and plugged 'er straight into the wall. Put the batch in for 20 minutes at 450 on broil. They still don't pass the acetone wipe test.....dern,dern,dern. The coating is hard, and I have shot them like that not knowing I had an oven problem, but I did get little flakes of lead after 100 rounds, nothing that stuck to the bore. That's what got me to looking for a problem. It must be the oven, cuz I've got some of the original batches and they pass. I'll get a different oven. Thanks for the post though.

[xacex]

Well, the PC graphite 223 boolits look horrible. I haven't used this graphite powder I had for the boat bottom, and it was all chunky and not sifted. My boolits have graphite warts all over them! nothing like yours Rangefinder.

[Skip62]

So what brand toaster ovens are you guys using? Looks like I'm in the market for a new one.

I was also wondering if one of those box electric smokers would get hot enough? If so, there is a lot of room to cook a lot of boolits in.

[Keola5o4]

I size ALL my bare UNLUBED boolits B-4 PCing. Do NOT have any streaks or distortions in the lead....it only makes them shiny on the grease grooves. Most of my molds drop at the exact size anyway, so sizing is just to make sure nothing slips thru.

Keola5o4: You must have lead or scratches in your die if you are getting streaks. Inspect closely and clean. Or your are making out-of-round slugs. Get out the old calipers and check.

Then I gun-coat (one coat) with HF black or red.... like Smoke 3420 said, yellow does not work! Bake @ 400F for 10 min, let cool naturally and run thru the size die again....NO lube.

I have coated many hundreds of slugs of various cal's and absolutely NONE of the coating comes off in the die. If there is a bit of flash on the base from powder collecting, that comes off in the die. No streaks, no missing chunks.....just pefect smooth-coated boolits. Using the HF semi-gloss black, sizing makes the high grease groove areas shiny, that's all.

I have pounded every size of boolit I PC almost flat (nose to base) on a heavy steel plate using a 4# mallet and the coating does not come off or flake. If the lead splits, then the coating does too, as expected!

Gun-coated PC is the best and perrrrrrrtiest method of coating.......anything! I use it to coat my lathe tool holders and other machine tools that regular epoxy paint is always flaking off of.

bangerjim
When you size without the lubd will it damage your sizing die?

[Keola5o4]

With the bullet being bare with no PC and no lube.

[sbeatty1983]

anyone know anything about airbrushes? I wonder if an airbrush would spray powder coat? My harbor freight pc machine quit working shortly after the 60 day return time ended. Im thinking about just spraying some sort of adhesive like hair spray on the bullets then spraying the powder on with an airbrush. just as an informal test I sprayed some with my wifes hair spray and then used a plastic pipe to blow a little powder on the bullets. it seemed to stick quite well.

[Skip62]

Well it may not pass the acetone test, but it passes the torch test.

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Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

[Rangefinder]

Alright! I asked about this awhile ago. Looks good to go so I did a batch myself of the MiHec 225-65. I did green PC, but they look completely black with the graphite powder. Course I tumbled them in the graphite powder after the PC setup enough.
My graphite is in a little squeeze bottle. I give a light "puff" while still agitating right before the boolits are too dry for it to stick. My goal was to just dust the bearing surfaces--pretty much accomplished that without using too much.

Gonna have to play with the WC load a bit, they were not as tight as I would like. The LITTLE pills should run nice in my .32ACP, but I wasn't thinking when I got excited and loaded up a couple for the AK with high velocity intent--I cast these with my soft pistol alloy :D oooooppps. They didn't actually spin apart, but were probably pretty close. NOW... the Lee 312-155's I did the day before... THOSE patterned a 5-shot cloverleaf at 25 yards through the AK. It's always been scary-accurate for an AK, but I don't think I've ever patterned a ragged-hole group with it--close, but never that tight. I think I hit the mark on that combo, so we'll be stepping that one out to the 1-2-300 yard range on monday to see how they run for distance.

[bangerjim]

When you size without the lubd will it damage your sizing die?

As I stated, my molds are pretty much dead on. I have had some that were a bit stubborn, but after sizing several thousand (each) of 9mm, 38, 40, and 45 slugs WITHOUT lube, no scratches or damage to any of the dies. And I have checked them with a scope and lights.

Last time I checked, hard steel is much harder than soft lead lead! 23bnh is soft compared to steel. If you have dirt and crud in your lead, you might/mabee/sort-of scratch the die.

Works for me!

You will find there are many "olde wive's tales" associated with many of the things we do in smelting/casting/reloading. Experience, not youtube, is the best teacher. Any moron can post schite on the internet and propagate mis-information to the masses.

bangerjim

[bangerjim]

anyone know anything about airbrushes? I wonder if an airbrush would spray powder coat? My harbor freight pc machine quit working shortly after the 60 day return time ended. Im thinking about just spraying some sort of adhesive like hair spray on the bullets then spraying the powder on with an airbrush. just as an informal test I sprayed some with my wifes hair spray and then used a plastic pipe to blow a little powder on the bullets. it seemed to stick quite well.


I have 4 different types of air brushes, from the cheepy HF sells to pro versions that are double action I use for antique restoration and detailing. An airbrush aspirates liquids by sucking it up and out of a container by using Venturi action over an orifice tube. The HF powder gun blows air directly thru AND blows air down into the powder container to create a fluidized bed action to atomize the powder so it will carry easily (float) down the tube.

I have never tried an airbrush, but is is a novel idea.

The MAJOR function of the powder gun is ELECTROSTATIC transfer coverage by applying a charge to the gun and the ground to the target, in our case the boolits. This equates to max coverage with minimum overspray/wasted powder.

You will probably not get good coverage with a regular airbrush and a lot of wasted powder. Also, the alcohol-based hair spray may not allow the powder to cure properly. That I am only speculating on.

Best bet......stick with what works.......the powder guns.

bangerjim

[fastglock]

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Was absent on a match today just to finish this Prototype. This is rigged for a small toaster/oven that will just fit 50rds.Still waiting on my HF powder gun. I cant wait so i'll be spraying these with High Temp paint mixed with some HBN powder. Test fire tomorrow.

[Russel Nash]

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Was absent on a match today just to finish this Prototype. This is rigged for a small toaster/oven that will just fit 50rds.Still waiting on my HF powder gun. I cant wait so i'll be spraying these with High Temp paint mixed with some HBN powder. Test fire tomorrow.

That is a nice rig you got set up there!

Just a slight thread drift.... I have been doing some welding, especially hex nuts and then welding a rod across the top of hex bolt heads to make a T handle. I was getting frustrated with the zinc causing the welds to bubble up. So off to google I went. It seems that just soaking galvanized parts in white/clear vinegar for a day or two is enough to get rid of the zinc.

I might put my wire jig on hold, and give the piglet (lacquer thinner) method a try, and buy a toaster oven. Then just bake on hardware mesh. It would save me a trip over to St. Louis to my powder coating buddy's shop. I just found out last week that he is not in the best of health. So I don't want to be a pest, and wear out my welcome.

[Rangefinder]

One little tid-bit I found out tonight...

I was playing more with the Lee312-155's I cooked the other day and was getting mad as a wet cat trying to get GC's on and flushed before sizing. Both my older lyman and hornaday checks snap on nice UNTIL there is the faintest layer of PC on the base. These will be loaded pretty snappy so I want the check, plus I'm testing accuracy more with my PC'd boolits so I want a clean, uniform base. But the darn things weren't cooperating at all. That's when I happened to look up and see my Pat Marlin check maker on the top shelf. I played with it a bit when I first got it and then put it on the shelf and forgot all about it--I got it mainly for when I run out of the huge pile of commercial checks that I still haven't finished cleaning out. Well, what the heck--I rammed out a few test checks.....and the darn things snapped right into place, then crimped on tight! They fit perfect!! So... I just spent the last hour and a half punching disks with a big grin. I guess the commercial checks are going to take a rest for a while.

[KYShooter73]

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Was absent on a match today just to finish this Prototype. This is rigged for a small toaster/oven that will just fit 50rds.Still waiting on my HF powder gun. I cant wait so i'll be spraying these with High Temp paint mixed with some HBN powder. Test fire tomorrow.

Love it, waiting on pics of finished boolits. I know you are going to get good coverage if you are liberal with your powder and have good performance. I just want to see the cosmetics on the tip, base will be fine I'm sure.


Hmm, with your jig I think I would pre-heat for a more sticky adhesion, then spray them one rack at a time to minimize any thin spots in the coating caused by them being screened in places by the jig or other boolits. Wish I had a welder.

[fastglock]

Love it, waiting on pics of finished boolits. I know you are going to get good coverage if you are liberal with your powder and have good performance. I just want to see the cosmetics on the tip, base will be fine I'm sure.


Hmm, with your jig I think I would pre-heat for a more sticky adhesion, then spray them one rack at a time to minimize any thin spots in the coating caused by them being screened in places by the jig or other boolits. Wish I had a welder.

yeah I plan to spray 1 rack at a time and probably make a stand that covers the bolts while I spray.

would preheating prior to spraying be better?

[Dolomite_supafly]

*****