44 Mag with BP

[S&W-629]

Has any one loaded up the 44 Mag with Back powder and if so how much did you put in? Thanks

[Seth Hawkins]

Yes.

As much as it could hold. Around 2.6cc volume if memory serves me correctly.

That's what's so nice about BP - you can't load too much.

[S&W-629]

Thanks.How did it shoot? I have a **** load of BP some thing like 10# and i love to shot all the time and i dont want it to go bad. lol

[Nobade]

Well, it won't go bad so no worries about that. I use a lot of black in my Marlin 44 mag carbine and also my Ruger 44 spl. revolver. Both shoot better with black than they do with any smokeless load.

The amount of powder you use depends on what boolit you use. Shoot for about 1/8" compression on the powder when you seat the boolit.

Use the right boolit. Something that carries enough lube if you are using it in rifles. Cast them soft, no harder than air cooled wheelweights and use a proper BP specific lube. Something like this: http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=43-215C-D.png
is a fine choice for lube carrying and accuracy at longer ranges.

Anneal your cases really well to prevent blowback and keep your action clean. Wash the cases, with the primers removed, after you shoot to make them look like new and last a long time.

Once you learn how to make things work with black powder you might not want to go back to smokeless. I know I don't!

[Seth Hawkins]

Nobade pretty much covered it. I would caution you about annealing the cases, though. If you're not an experienced reloader and know what you're doing you can do more harm than good when trying to anneal the cases, especially short pistol brass.

And when it comes time to cleanup, just plain 'ol hot water is all you'll need. Forget about all the other snake oils being touted. Nothing works better, or is cheaper and more readily available, than water.

[felix]

Machine shops use water based coolants which are either pure synthetic from petro or water soluble extracts from natural oils. Your choice, and depends on what is free for the asking from the local shops. The one I use is blue in color and works perfectly. A two liter coke bottle full should last a loooong time. ... felix

[Grapeshot]

For several years I've been loading .44 Mag Cases with BP or Subs for Cowboy Action Shooting. I use a Lee 2.5 cc Dipper and a 240 gr Lyman 429666 Cowboy bullet. These are fired out of a Marlin .44 Mag Model 94 and have performed very well over the years.

[Dan Cash]

You must NEVER use regular, petroleum-based gunoil on/in any gun that's going to have BP shot in it. This includes the cleanup, too.

I have to disagree with the above statement. Petroleum based lubricants in bullet lube do some aweful things to the fouling and you will repent if you use them. Vasalene seems to be an exception to the rule though I have never used it. For lubrication and preservation after water clean up (hot is best but not always available) various petroleum lubes perform quite well. I am fond of Ed's Red and use it excellent results to prevent rust inside and out. FWIW, I am shooting more than 25 lbs of BP a year in cartridge rifle and pistol.

[bigted]

You must NEVER use regular, petroleum-based gunoil on/in any gun that's going to have BP shot in it. This includes the cleanup, too.

I have to disagree with the above statement. Petroleum based lubricants in bullet lube do some aweful things to the fouling and you will repent if you use them. Vasalene seems to be an exception to the rule though I have never used it. For lubrication and preservation after water clean up (hot is best but not always available) various petroleum lubes perform quite well. I am fond of Ed's Red and use it excellent results to prevent rust inside and out. FWIW, I am shooting more than 25 lbs of BP a year in cartridge rifle and pistol.

i must chime in as well on the gun oil issue...i use both rem oil and outers gun oil for preserving between shoots and never a problem with either for this use...i dont use petrolium products for lube either on boolits nor cookies but the canned spray oil mentioned works well for the oil preservative needed to store them...also sometimes i acually do swab em when im ready to shoot but more likely im just as apt to just shuck a shell in the chamber and fire away...never a problem.

cleanup is done with water,,,,,,,water/ballistol mix,,,,,,,ballistol plain,,,,,,,spit from my nasty jaws........ any other substance will cost way more AND will never do any better job then these plain substances.... now cleaning lead out is another storie entirely...blackpowder is not a product of a brain surgeon nor is the care of its firearms rocket science...just need to go back to the 100 yr + history and do as the ODG's did...[O=old... D= dead... G=guys].

U KNOW............KEEP IT SIMPLE $!#%!@

[S&W-629]

I have been shooting BP on and off for 10 + years and i cleaned them with hot water then i oiled them with Rem gun oil and i dint think thare was a problem.The gun that i would be shooting the BP in is a Stainles S&W 629 5 5/8 so i would think that it would cleen up prity good right?

[bigted]

YEP!!! i shoot my ruger sp100 with bp and all i do is swish em in hot ballistol water in the sink while i use a nylon brush on the exterior to clean off the residue and brush the bore n cylender with a brass brush then a mop to ensure there is all the gunk outta there then after i allow it to drip dry for a bit i spray it in every nook and crevis with outers and a bunch down inside the action and allo it to drip dry again..good to go. wipe down with a clean wrag and enjoy the sweet smell that got created in the house...thats before the wife begins to huff about the "awfull smell"...LOL

your advantage is the ease of removing the cylender on your smith.

['74 sharps]

Bp load is always a full case.

Cleanp for my bp revolver, a Colt SAA in .45, is remove grips, hot water, and finish up with a coat of Ballistol. Works every time. Do not see a need for anything else.

[9w1911]

I am just starting to load 3F for the 44 mag Marlin 1894c and the data states 25gn of 3f which fills the case and compresses the power, I loaded my first case last night and stopped when the bullet, which was set up to seat to the top of crimp on a lswc 240gn for smokeless. and it did not seat to depth. Do I need to adjust the seating die to push the bullet into the case further, compressing the powder to get the bullet to seat at proper depth proper depth?

[otter5555]

Has any one loaded up the 44 Mag with Back powder and if so how much did you put in? Thanks


yes, every day :)

i use 16.1 gr BY WEIGHT behind a lee 240 gr swc. superbly accurate in every 44 mag i own. gives 1/16" compression in my cases.

otter

[9w1911]

so seating this will feel a bit stiffer than smokeless because i am compressing so much?

[bigted]

here is a golden rule of thumb...measure your boolit from the base to the ring that you plan to seat the boolit at. now subtract .120 inch...[1/8th inch] ... from this number. now fill the case to this number and seat your boolit down to and compress with the boolit to your final seating depth.

example;

1- boolit measures .500 inch from the base to the crimp groove.
2- take .500 and subtract the .120 inch from it ...= .380 inch
3- fill the case to within the .380 inch from the top of the case.
4- put your boolit in the case and seat it to the crimp ring...thus compressing your powder a full 1/8th inch or the .120 just talked about.
5- crimp and shoot!
6- wipe that silly grin from yer chops
7- HEY ...your still grinning like an idgit.

its that simple to start. have fun and report back on how long it took to dissolve the grin on yer ugly mug.

[Dave Bulla]

9w1911,

I'm a bit of a new guy in the BP cartridge game but you're raising red flags to me when you say the bullets won't seat deep enough. If you are loading the same lead bullet with BP that you were using with smokeless and you have not reset your dies, it should still be correct. I assume you are using a press, probably a single stage? There should be plenty of power there to compress your load a SAFE amount. If you are compressing so much that you can't get there with a press you might be doing something wrong and potentially dangerouis.

One thing I have found is that BP needs to be "settled" in the case. That is, you can tap/jiggle the case to settle the powder or use a drop tube which is a long tube like a funnel and you trickle the powder in through it. For some reason, when dropped from a height slowly, the BP will settle in the case and allow you to get more powder in a given space. For example, you can dip a 45-70 case full to the rim then if you do the tap/jiggle thing, you can get about 3/8" of space for the bullet after the powder settles. Same goes if you use a drop tube. There is disagreement out there whether or not a drop tube is needed but they've been around forever.

Anyway, I suggest you do some more research, look into proper steps like bigted just gave above and make sure you are doing it right. One step in bigted's list that he might have omitted would be settling the powder to get that .380" of space but hopefully he will verify that for you.

[9w1911]

I did not settle the powder and will try this. Load data is 25gn from hodgdon website and that pretty much fills the case but leaves a little space. I am using a Dillon 550b. I will measure the bullet depth to the crimp groove and adjust hopefully I can just tap the case and get the 3f to settle.
does using the Dillon powder drop make the powder more fluffy?

[9w1911]

Easier to seat one bullet today after I had shook the case a bit and the powder did settle

[w30wcf]

so seating this will feel a bit stiffer than smokeless because i am compressing so much?

Sounds like you may be using 777 or Pyrodex(?) due to the 25 gr wt. you are using.

The way that I use to determine compression is to take a fired case and remove the crimp so the bullet will slide freely inside the case. Settle the powder charge in the case by dumping it slowly through the funnel with the powder pan held 5 - 6" above it.

Place the bullet down on top of the powder and measure the oal. Add or subtract powder until the difference between that oal and the finished cartridge oal = the amount of compression that you desire.

Have fun!
w30wcf

[9w1911]

thank you sir!! and yes I am using 777 I was considering making a compression dowel by measuring the length from the crimp groove to the base of the bullet and thus make a "die" from this and I was just going to compress the 25gn of 777 never thought of adding of taking away powder

[Nobade]

Hodgdon says not to compress T7. The little I have used it in cartridges, I just use enough to touch the base of the seated boolit. Loaded that way it is plenty powerful.

-Nobade

[9w1911]

Hodgdon says not to compress T7.--yikes ok

[MikeS]

yes, every day :)

i use 16.1 gr BY WEIGHT behind a lee 240 gr swc. superbly accurate in every 44 mag i own. gives 1/16" compression in my cases.

otter

Otter, that sounds like a very light load for black powder. Are you using real black powder, or are you using Pyrodex, or one of the other BP substitute powders?

[bigted]

naaa don't know bout the triple 7 powder but I don't use a drop tube with real black either.... at least not in my pistol cases... I do the... "hold the powder pan above the funnel bout 6 inch's" ...thing and the settled powder is what it is. try a dowel to determine the depth and adjust the powder amount till you get what you desire. use the boolit for compressing the .120 or 1/8th inch...this will do no harm to the boolit and wont till you get fancy with exotic amounts and different components and such...then you will require a compression plug for your die's.

this is a very easy process and un-complicated. bp loading is fun and shooting is fun and casting is fun and on n on n on...

have fun with it and don't allow yourself to be bogged down by fellers that normally shoot smokeless as they have not spent the time with this very addictive powder and its simple ways. these folks here on this forum have taught me tons of stuff on this profound shooting fun and they will likely not steer you wrong either.

if your procedure is not making you smile ,,, then re-group and begin again...this is very fun and smiles are the currency that is spent in the pursuit of it.

[bigted]

deleted a double...srry bout that.

[HPT]

44 Mag Rossi 9 shots in 2.625" @ 100yds (fouling shot @ 12 o'clock)
38 gr Goex 2FG Accurate Mold 43-215C 20:1 CCI 300 primer

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z41/VonN_photos/DSC00437_zps569b3fad.jpg (http://s191.photobucket.com/user/VonN_photos/media/DSC00437_zps569b3fad.jpg.html)

44 Mag Rossi 9 shots in 2.75" @ 100yds (fouling shot @ 12 oclock)
38 gr Swiss 1-1/2 FG Accurate Mold 43-215C 20:1 CCI 300 primer

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z41/VonN_photos/DSC00438_zps22eee50e.jpg (http://s191.photobucket.com/user/VonN_photos/media/DSC00438_zps22eee50e.jpg.html)

[sparkz]

I had been watching this
and to be clear
in my Ruger SBH 44mag 8"
I can* use FF & FFF ?
thought FFF was rifle? thats slower correct?
Is one primer better then other for BP? regular bill-o-fair primers (is brand a big deal?)
Can I use 50-50%, FOR LUBE OR Do i need to clean out sizer (Is it a big deal?, bear to switch lubes in sizer, haha)
( to be clear I can use what I do now with smokeless and to use BP, only change powder & volume used?)
I am not ready to load BP yet but I hope to
and I am collecting Knowledge from these posts

(Not tryin to hyjack but trying to add questions so you add answers to topic)
Please Advise

Patrick & Sean Campbell

[otter5555]

Otter, that sounds like a very light load for black powder. Are you using real black powder, or are you using Pyrodex, or one of the other BP substitute powders?

it's my home made black. been makin' it for 40+ years. everything i own shoots smaller groups with black. i just dont like the clean up or thats all i'd shoot.

[nwellons]

I had been watching this
and to be clear
in my Ruger SBH 44mag 8"
I can* use FF & FFF ?
thought FFF was rifle? thats slower correct?
Is one primer better then other for BP? regular bill-o-fair primers (is brand a big deal?)
Can I use 50-50%, FOR LUBE OR Do i need to clean out sizer (Is it a big deal?, bear to switch lubes in sizer, haha)
( to be clear I can use what I do now with smokeless and to use BP, only change powder & volume used?)
I am not ready to load BP yet but I hope to
and I am collecting Knowledge from these posts

(Not tryin to hyjack but trying to add questions so you add answers to topic)
Please Advise

Patrick & Sean Campbell

I can answer some of your questions. FF is rifle, FFF is pistol (and FFFF is for priming flintlock pans.) For my .44 Russian pistol, I use either FF or FFF. Not much difference. I find I get more consistent velocities using Magnum Pistol Primers. Use any lube you want - as long as it is black powder lube! I pan lube with beeswax/canola oil/solid Crisco mix.

Also, I use Lee dippers for measurement and slightly compress the powder with the boolit.

[bigted]

loading this original powder is just this simple...

1- a Lee dipper #1.9 full or GOEX Cartridge powder [30 grains weighed] and dropped thru an RCBS funnel with the 6 inch long tube installed.
2- a Lyman 325 grain home cast boolit lubed with SPG.
3- primed with cci 300 primers
4- loaded in FC [federal] cases
5- boolit seated and crimped in 1 operation
6- load the cylinder full of 6 shells and smear Crisco on the mouth of the loaded chambers
shoot these most fun cases and go back for more.

cleanup...

1- remove the cylinder screw on the right side of your Smith and remove the cylinder from frame.
2- spray everything inside and out with ballistol/water mix or Windex with vinegar and allow to set for as long as it takes to put the empty cases [minus primers] into a jug for the soaking in water/Dawn mix.
3- begin with the barrel and swab it out with clean patch's soaked in ballistol/water...continue till patch's come clean.
4- swab the cylinder chambers the same till clean.
5- wipe down whole revolver/cylinder/crane with a clean towel till dry and clean.
6- spray down copiously with rem oil or outers gun oil...inside the action as well.
7- re-assemble revolver as it drips with oil.
8- smile as you wipe it down inside and out with another clean dry towel.
9- put away and wait for your next opportunity to repeat your new favorite sport.
10- time spent on cleaning your Smith 629 has been approx. 4 or 5 minutes

these are most accurate in my Smith and ridiculously fun to load and shoot.

[w30wcf]

44 Mag Rossi 9 shots in 2.625" @ 100yds (fouling shot @ 12 o'clock)
38 gr Goex 2FG Accurate Mold 43-215C 20:1 CCI 300 primer

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z41/VonN_photos/DSC00437_zps569b3fad.jpg (http://s191.photobucket.com/user/VonN_photos/media/DSC00437_zps569b3fad.jpg.html)

44 Mag Rossi 9 shots in 2.75" @ 100yds (fouling shot @ 12 oclock)
38 gr Swiss 1-1/2 FG Accurate Mold 43-215C 20:1 CCI 300 primer

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z41/VonN_photos/DSC00438_zps22eee50e.jpg (http://s191.photobucket.com/user/VonN_photos/media/DSC00438_zps22eee50e.jpg.html)

HPT,
Nice shooting! I also find the 43-215C to shoot very well even out to 300 meters.......:D

w30wcf

[junkbug]

Hello all;
Will the Accurate Mold 43-215C work in a 44-40 with black powder? I am looking to shoot it out of a 5 1/2" barreled revolver.

Thanks

[w30wcf]

Hello all;
Will the Accurate Mold 43-215C work in a 44-40 with black powder? I am looking to shoot it out of a 5 1/2" barreled revolver.

Thanks
Yes. It was specifically designed for the .44-40 but will work in other .44 caliber rounds as well.

w30wcf