Soule Sight opinions

[Mark]

I purchased my first Pedersoli 1874 Sharps rifle in 45/70 recently. I am looking to add a Soule rear sight. Is one manufacturer better than another? I was speaking to a person at my gun club who said that his father has a Pedersoli sight on his rifle. He claims to like it but it doesn't fold down far enough for barrel cleaning. Is this true and do any other manufacturer's sights do the same? Opinions on different Hadley cups are also welcome.
Thanks for your help,
mark

[Don McDowell]

MVA buffalo soule with the standard hadley eye cup.

[montana_charlie]

It's true. The Soule sight manufactured by Pedersoli does not fold down flat enough to give you a clear shot at the breech. However, many (most?) shooters use a flexible rod for wiping between shots, so that problem is surmountable.

If you are thinking of that difficulty in the context of complete cleaning at home, unscrewing the eyepiece allows the staff to lay flat on the comb.

CM

[Baja_Traveler]

I have a midrange MVA with a Hadley on mine, and don't notice a problem. I started out with the Pedersoli soule sight, and found it poorly made, so I did the "cry once" routine and got an MVA. I haven't regretted the decision.

[rbertalotto]

Cabellas has the Pedersoli sights on sale. I just bought a Goodwin but it was $169 in the Bargin Cave

http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/search.cmd?form_state=searchForm&N=0&fsch=true&Ntk=AllProducts&Ntt=pedersoli+sight&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products&x=12&y=11

[Starvnhuntr]

go to www.buffalo arms .com and look at their soule sights. If you have questions give them a call. I put one of their kelly soule sights on a high wall and now I am thinking about putting one on a roller.

[hiram]

http://www.jeffsoutfitters.com/

[Jon K]

Baldwin, or MVA...

Baldwin is my favorite...3 short range/2 long range/1 mid-range.

Jon

[Hip's Ax]

I have Baldwin LR sights on both my MR and LR CPA rifles. Love them.

[drcook]

Lee Shaver and Ron Heilman both make decent soule sights that don't cost as much as the other brands mentioned, but function just as good. I have 2 sets of MVA's and the rest from Ron Heilman due to cost.

Shaver advertises on eBay as well as marketed through BACO. Do not get the economy model, you would be a bit disappointed from what I have read. His premium model is pretty good though.

The major criteria with getting a soule sight is, (just like when picking a rifle) truly defining your purposes. If you at all intend to shoot beyond 200 yards, then you are best served by getting the most windage adjustment and more staff height than what you think. I am not saying to buy the staff that MVA sells for the folks shooting at a mile, but by getting the sights that say "buffalo windage" and 1000 yard range, you will cover yourself now and in the future in case you want to go to one of the gong matches.

As one of the commercials on TV that is currently running says "Avoid disappointment and future regret".....

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

EDK here bought a Shiloh 50-140 and put the MVA LR on it. Over a couple thousand rounds he managed to break it. Luckily, we were at Quigley, and we just took that as a sign we should visit MVA and get the nickel tour. A simple lifetime guarantee is pretty neat.

[EDG]

The hinge knuckle on the Pedersoli is too low and the sight apeture is too long to allow the sight to fold down for cleaning. The sight also has a lot of slop in the elevation slide, when the elevation is adjusted you are likely to have some variation in both elevation and windage when the sight is locked.

[MT Chambers]

The cheapo sights like Pedersoli have "slop" or "slack" in their adjustments, this will become apparent when you get out to longer ranges and are trying to get your "repeatable" sight settings. You're writing down settings, as you are adjusting and the sight doesn't move until after a turn or two. Save the expense and go with Baldwin, MVA, Hoke, etc....Even the imported Ukrainian sights are good to go, you move the adj. wheel and the sights move with it!!

[drcook]

Regardless of the brand, Lee Shaver, Ron Heilman, moving up from there, the price is going to be pretty close to 400.00. Here is the Shaver sight on eBay. Notice his comes with a Hadley eyecup.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Grade-model-Soule-type-tang-sight-for-rifles-/120480440301?pt=Vintage_Hunting&hash=item1c0d319fed


I have used my Ron Heilman sights for 1000 yard gong matches. Is the finish better on my MVA's yes, of course, but they also cost a lot more.

[Mark]

The major criteria with getting a soule sight is, (just like when picking a rifle) truly defining your purposes. If you at all intend to shoot beyond 200 yards, then you are best served by getting the most windage adjustment and more staff height than what you think. I am not saying to buy the staff that MVA sells for the folks shooting at a mile, but by getting the sights that say "buffalo windage" and 1000 yard range, you will cover yourself now and in the future in case you want to go to one of the gong matches.

.....

Thanks all for your suggestions.

Why would I buy medium range rear sight? Is there any advantage to a medium range sight over a long range sight? Right now I have easy access to a 200 yards range, good access to a 600 yard range, and I hope to try a 1000 yard range one day. If I buy a long range sight, will I be giving any thing up at 200 yards? Also, how well do these sights regulate at close targets at say 100 yards?

Thanks again for the help,

Mark

[Baja_Traveler]

You won't be giving anything up at 200 yards with a long range sight - the staff will just be that much higher over a mid range sight. That said, we shoot out to 880 yards in our buffalo matches, and I still have room to spare using my mid range MVA, so I should be about maxed out at 1000. I personally don't see a need for any more sight than I have...

I tried shooting my pedersoli as close as 100 yards, and found that the sight was adjusted so low that the factory barrel sights got in the way, so I had to remove them to get that close. This was using 65 grains 1 1/2 Swiss in a 45-70 - your experience may vary depending on your load.

[drcook]

Why would I buy medium range rear sight?

Maybe because you would want to take a chance that you will not have enough sight adjustment if you get into one of the long range matches, 1000 yds or so??.

Because you might want to drive 1000 miles and find out you don't have enough sight??

In all seriousness, some brands don't have as much windage on the midrange sights. Some do, some don't.

If you ever intend to do one of the shoots such as the Quigley, Sagebrush's shoot at Alliance Neb, etc, there is always the chance of those western winds. Some of my friend's have had all their windage cranked out and still were using Kentucky windage.

A long range sight is not that much taller than a mid-range. Why chance it. ? Just because someone else's load and rifle will do x distance with x sight, really doesn't mean you should take a chance. That is my opinion. It costs a lot to drive to some of the matches, and why would you want to take a chance of getting there and not being able to get a sight adjustment because you ran out.

ADDITIONALLY, most suppliers will not let you return a sight once it is mounted. BACO states that on their website. You know you will be covered in all situations by buying the long range one with the most windage.

Will it cost a bit more, yes, but you are only going to buy once.

Is there any advantage to a medium range sight over a long range sight?

No, not in my opinion. I have 4 Sharps and 6 CPA Stevens, all with long range sights on them and never have I encountered the least bit of an issue having a long range sight.

Right now I have easy access to a 200 yards range, good access to a 600 yard range, and I hope to try a 1000 yard range one day. If I buy a long range sight, will I be giving any thing up at 200 yards?

No. They will both start 0 (zero) at the same place. A long range sight is simply taller.


Also, how well do these sights regulate at close targets at say 100 yards?

As stated above, depending on the sight, you may or may not be able to use them at 100.

[Mark]

Why would I buy medium range rear sight?

Maybe because you would want to take a chance that you will not have enough sight adjustment if you get into one of the long range matches, 1000 yds or so??.

Because you might want to drive 1000 miles and find out you don't have enough sight??

In all seriousness, some brands don't have as much windage on the midrange sights. Some do, some don't.

If you ever intend to do one of the shoots such as the Quigley, Sagebrush's shoot at Alliance Neb, etc, there is always the chance of those western winds. Some of my friend's have had all their windage cranked out and still were using Kentucky windage.

A long range sight is not that much taller than a mid-range. Why chance it. ? Just because someone else's load and rifle will do x distance with x sight, really doesn't mean you should take a chance. That is my opinion. It costs a lot to drive to some of the matches, and why would you want to take a chance of getting there and not being able to get a sight adjustment because you ran out.

ADDITIONALLY, most suppliers will not let you return a sight once it is mounted. BACO states that on their website. You know you will be covered in all situations by buying the long range one with the most windage.

Will it cost a bit more, yes, but you are only going to buy once.

Is there any advantage to a medium range sight over a long range sight?

No, not in my opinion. I have 4 Sharps and 6 CPA Stevens, all with long range sights on them and never have I encountered the least bit of an issue having a long range sight.

Right now I have easy access to a 200 yards range, good access to a 600 yard range, and I hope to try a 1000 yard range one day. If I buy a long range sight, will I be giving any thing up at 200 yards?

No. They will both start 0 (zero) at the same place. A long range sight is simply taller.


Also, how well do these sights regulate at close targets at say 100 yards?

As stated above, depending on the sight, you may or may not be able to use them at 100.


drcrock, Thanks for taking the time to write this. Thank you to everyone else for their responses. I feel better about making the decision for a long range sight.

Mark

[NSB]

To add a little bit about your question on regulating at 100 yds: The height of the front sight will determine whether or not you can get your sight regulated at that distance. When I first started shooting these guns I worked my way past the confusion of mid-range vs long range and agree that there is very little difference in height but the added length of the long range is probably a better choice if you even think you might try long range competition...get it right the first time. When you put your new sight on your 1874 it may or may not be able to be sighted in at 100 yds. I had to get a different height front sight to get mine to shoot at that distance. I had to get a higher front sight to do this. The up side is that they aren't nearly as expensive as the rear sights and a very good one is pretty reasonably priced.

[montana_charlie]

I have had four different tang sights on my Sharps rifle.
Second hand when I bought the rifle, it came with the Pedersoli USA431 'Long Range Sillhouette' model.

It is one of Pedersoli's 'better quality' sights, and it performed well out to 100 yards. I never shot at a target further away while I owned that sight.

I changed it for a Pedersoli USA406 'Long Range Soule' which is also one of the 'better quality' models. All tang sights in that group use the same eyepieces, so it's easy to know which ones are included.

I made the change because I was convinced that I needed the Soule with it's double-knobbed windage drum. Still shooting at 100 yards, it didn't really improve anything, and I was still able to shoot 1 inch groups on the good days.

Influenced by the common badmouthing by 'the community' I decided I should move away from the Pedersoli sights. The engraved marks on the staff and vernier were clear and precise, and I could easily return to a previous setting if I needed to. But, the staff did not lay flat, and I didn't have a flexible rod.

So, I bought the Lee Shaver 'economy' model. It would lay flat for cleaning, and that was the only advantage in owning it. The staff and vernier engraving was oddly shaped, and difficult to line up the same way twice in a row. The method for holding the staff erected was a non-adjustable spring in an arc recess which gave a 'spongy' feel to the staff when it assumed the position.
I shot that sight for a year and it sufficed because I don't really care where the group impacts on a paper target, so long as i can measure it's size. I was able to shoot 1 inch 100 yard groups on good days, and the sight did okay at 2 and 300 yards when shooting at a 2 foot gong.
During this period I began shooting paper patch, so I turned to wiping between shots ... which meant laying the staff down after every shot. The spongy-feeling staff aggravated me more everytime I used it.

So, I bought the Ron Heilman sight late last winter. The windage knob is very, very stiff, but I think that difficulty could be adjusted out of it ... if I get brave enough to disassemble the drum.
The staff locks firmly in the upright position and the engraving in the staff and vernier is accurate. Unfoutunately, that engraving is so light I have to resort to reading glasses when making changes.
With this one I HAVE been shooting at 2 and 300 yards on a regular basis, and shooting for group size ... not just banging on the (easy) gong ... but the hard to see engraving is kinda ticking me off since I change settings so often these days.
Anyway, with this sight my shooting is every bit as accurate as it was with any of the sights I have had on the rifle ... but no better than any of them, including the two Pedersoli units.

That brings me to something I see frequently, but have never seen a comment on.
You will frequently hear it said that a sight has a lot of slop in the elevation screw.

I suppose that if you set the slide at a particular place on the staff for a given range, and then count screw turns while making finer adjustments, a close fit in the threads is required to 'count the eyepiece' back up (or down) to a previous setting. That would tie 'slop' to 'repeatability'.

But, if you align two marks engraved on the sight to get a particular setting, returning to that same alignment (and locking the eyepiece there) is acheivable ... even if you don't use a screw to move the slider.

In other words, I think 'accuracy' is acheived by proper alignment of staff marks with vernier marks, and repeatability' comes from returning to that alignment.

I presume that a shooter would have to rely on counting screw turns if he doesn't know how to use a vernier scale.

CM

[drcook]

every lead screw will develop "slop" due to wear, and as CM says, you should be using the vernier to determine settings, not turns of the screw. Turns of the screw are for getting you close.

CM, I too had issues with seeing Ron's vernier marks, however he built me a special slide that is a little thicker than his usual ones and that allows me to see the marks better. Once we made that modification, all the subsequent ones I got from him have it.

[Mark]

Update...I got sticker shock when looking at these sights. I wanted MVA but decided on the Lee Shaver sight because of cost. I finally had the chance to fire the rifle with the Lee Shaver sight. I am glad I opted for the Hadley cup that he offered.
I was worried that the front sight would be too short and it is. I call Lee Shaver and he is getting 100 more of my dollars to send me a new front globe sight with spirit level.
Thanks again for all of the help,
mark