What am I doing wrong? 44 revolvers

[bones37]

Ok, let me explain my situation, I am getting lead smearing inside the chambers, just forward of where the case ends(44mag cases), up into the cone shaped area just before the throat, and lastly in the cylinder throats. However my barrel is clean as a pin. Is there something that I'm missing?

I am using wheel weights as my alloy. I am water dropping them to harden.
Unique is the powder I'm using. I've tried several different loads, no luck, still leads.
I have a new mold from Tom, the 43-250K @.432"
I am sizing to cylinder throats which are .432"
New Ruger Superblackhawk

Anybody offer me some advice that might help, I 've thought about this so much my brain hurts!

Bones

[runfiverun]

it's roughness in the cylinder throats.

[GP100man]

I`d polish the throats a bit with FLITZ or JB bore paste , the forcing cone has to be cut with a cutter to be cleaned up .

If it`s just smearing & no build up it should`nt affect accuracy , but if it does then it needs to be addressed.

Do a search on "Taylor Throating" , there`s pros & cons on doing it though.

[turmech]

Are you sure your cylinder throats are .432? I am sure they could be. I only ask because my SBH are .430 and it seems from reading other post that that is common.
Have you tried to push the bullets through the cylinders before loading?

10 gr of unique with a similar bullet (429421) @ .430 do very well in My SBH as does the keith load of 2400

[youngda9]

You should have no need to water drop when unique in 44 mag.

[44man]

Everything with the loading sounds good.
I would try a little polishing with JB myself. Or clean the throats more often while shooting so they will smooth up with shooting.
Throat sizes jump around a lot, mine are .4324" in my SBH. Just don't go over throat size so the throats act like size dies.
You should be able to slip a boolit through with your thumb or a pencil.
If too tight just size a tad smaller.
I am not a stickler to exact sizes with mine and with my large throats my most accurate boolit is .430" but handles all up to .432". My groove is .430".
All of my revolvers prefer boolits .0005" under throat.
One thing to watch for is water dropped WW boolits can age expand. My .476" boolits will expand to .478" in a few weeks.
Then do not cast, size and load right away, let boolits harden and fully expand. You might have to size again, does not hurt a thing.

[44man]

You should have no need to water drop when unique in 44 mag.
Not really true. Experiments with fast powders has proven to me that boolits need to be harder then with 2400 or 296. The boolit needs to resist the high initial pressure thump.
Nothing much to do with leading, just accuracy. Taking boolits to 28 and 30 BHN has cut group size more then 50% in my .44 with Unique and 231.
Sounds strange with low pressure loads but the pressure is more instant.
Don't look at chamber pressure, look at where it is applied to the boolit.

[cbrick]

I gotta agree with 44man, the very best boolit sizers on the planet are revolver throats. It sounds like sizing to .432" may be a tad large for your gun. Do as 44man suggests and try to slip fit your "aged" sized bullets through each of the throats. I try for a 'mild snug" fit, if it falls through it's too loose, if it can't be tapped through with a pencil it's too tight and the throats will be your sizer die.

Rough or a sharp edge at the start of the throat is also a possiblity but I would start with making sure the sized diameter is correct for your gun.

Rick

[youngda9]

I use air cooled WW with 10gr of unique and never had an issue. Guess I just got lucky.

[bones37]

Are you sure your cylinder throats are .432? I am sure they could be. I only ask because my SBH are .430 and it seems from reading other post that that is common.
Have you tried to push the bullets through the cylinders before loading?

10 gr of unique with a similar bullet (429421) @ .430 do very well in My SBH as does the keith load of 2400

Yes, they are 432. I slugged the bore AND the cylinder throats. Bore is 430 and throats are 432. I have a 432 sizing die that Buckshot made for me.

[bones37]

Not really true. Experiments with fast powders has proven to me that boolits need to be harder then with 2400 or 296. The boolit needs to resist the high initial pressure thump.
Nothing much to do with leading, just accuracy. Taking boolits to 28 and 30 BHN has cut group size more then 50% in my .44 with Unique and 231.
Sounds strange with low pressure loads but the pressure is more instant.
Don't look at chamber pressure, look at where it is applied to the boolit.

Exactly. This mirrors my limited experience with those powders, a harder boolit seems to perform better with Unique, 231, etc., which is strange considering I just use a ACWW in my 45acp with the same powders and have no problems whatsoever.

[gray wolf]

lead smearing inside the chambers, just forward of where the case ends(44mag cases), up into the cone shaped area just before the throat, and lastly in the cylinder throats. However my barrel is clean as a pin. Is there something that I'm missing?
Sounds just like one or more of my older post. exact same problem here and I have the same cylinder throat bore measurements.
Leading right after the case mouth, a nice ring of lead at the spot the cylinder tapers, just before the throat. 8.5---9.3 of unique---6 of tite group---10 of long shot.
Mine have some small tooling rings just before the throat begins.
Bullets are a slight push through with my thumb, not tight, just snug.
Barrel stays clean, cone is clean, accuracy is fine.
No high jacking here--just saying I have the same problem,
I may try to smooth the area.
I may try a smaller bullet.
I may try a harder bullet.
I may call Ruger ?? ( maybe )
Trying to clean more often may help also.
It's one big pain in the AR$$.

[mdi]

I use air cooled WW with 10gr of unique and never had an issue. Guess I just got lucky.
Me too, in my Ruger SBH, S&W 629, Dan Wessom 44H, and T/C Contender...

[MtGun44]

AC wwts work fine with any powder at any velocities in all my .44 Mags and .357 Mags.

Bill

[youngda9]

I shoot AC WW 268 grain slugs out of my 1894s (2 of them) with no problems either. Used the 10grain Unique charge and settled on 22gr of MP-300 for increased velocity(1650fps). Use the Lee 158 grain bullet with med-hot Unique loads for thousands of rounds in my 357 also, no leading.

Size DOES matter ;)

[bones37]

Sounds just like one or more of my older post. exact same problem here and I have the same cylinder throat bore measurements.
Leading right after the case mouth, a nice ring of lead at the spot the cylinder tapers, just before the throat. 8.5---9.3 of unique---6 of tite group---10 of long shot.
Mine have some small tooling rings just before the throat begins.
Bullets are a slight push through with my thumb, not tight, just snug.
Barrel stays clean, cone is clean, accuracy is fine.
No high jacking here--just saying I have the same problem,
I may try to smooth the area.
I may try a smaller bullet.
I may try a harder bullet.
I may call Ruger ?? ( maybe )
Trying to clean more often may help also.
It's one big pain in the AR$$.

Gray, hopefully with the combined knowledge of the members here, we can come up with a solution to this issue.

[bones37]

Me too, in my Ruger SBH, S&W 629, Dan Wessom 44H, and T/C Contender...


AC wwts work fine with any powder at any velocities in all my .44 Mags and .357 Mags.

Bill


I shoot AC WW 268 grain slugs out of my 1894s (2 of them) with no problems either. Used the 10grain Unique charge and settled on 22gr of MP-300 for increased velocity(1650fps). Use the Lee 158 grain bullet with med-hot Unique loads for thousands of rounds in my 357 also, no leading.

Size DOES matter ;)

I am still learning, but I haven't had this problem until I started casting for the 44s. I was already casting for 38 sp. and 45 acp with no problems, I was blissfully happy considering the previous experiences with store bought cast boolits that I loaded. Nevertheless, I am determined to listen and learn as much as possible from you fine folks. I do appreciate all the patience and help that the members here provide.

[DukeInFlorida]

I use 50-50 alloy (pure lead or range lead with wheel weights) and air cool with NO LEADING whatsoever.

I'm guessing that you are too hard. Read Glen's treatise on this subject:
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_3_alloySelectionMetallurgy.ht m

[bones37]

I use 50-50 alloy (pure lead or range lead with wheel weights) and air cool with NO LEADING whatsoever.

I'm guessing that you are too hard. Read Glen's treatise on this subject:
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_3_alloySelectionMetallurgy.ht m

I was using ACWW's before and still had this problem, therefore I assumed that the next logical step would be to try a harder boolit. Believe me, I would rather NOT water drop boolits if I didn't have to.

[rromeo]

Are you sure your cylinder throats are .432? I am sure they could be. I only ask because my SBH are .430 and it seems from reading other post that that is common.
Have you tried to push the bullets through the cylinders before loading?

10 gr of unique with a similar bullet (429421) @ .430 do very well in My SBH as does the keith load of 2400

I'm new to this, and also loading for a New Model SBH. After reading this, I measured my cylinder, and it's .433". I don't possess a bullet that even pauses on its way through.

[leadman]

My SBH will lead the cylinder and barrel with 10grs of Unique. Same boolit with 18.5grs of 2400 cut a cloverleaf at 25 yards with no leading.
My throats are .432"

[bones37]

My SBH will lead the cylinder and barrel with 10grs of Unique. Same boolit with 18.5grs of 2400 cut a cloverleaf at 25 yards with no leading.
My throats are .432"

I'm not using that much Unique, my load is 6.5 grains. I don't need nor want that much velocity, as I am trying to keep my loads in the 850 to 950 fps range.