Bad Lube,Bad Powder or Bad Primers

[Swamp Ghost]

When reloading my .44 Spl/Mag Ammo I have had a few firing issues. I have taken up with Alliant 2400 powder now,but I was using H110 powder and using my cast bullets,255gr.SWC "Keith". The problems I was experiencing was some of the rounds would fire perfectly and others would just pop...leaving a bullet stuck half way down the barrel. I use a home made lube that consists of Vaseline , Paraffin Wax , Crayons (For Color) and STP Oil Treatment. The lube has worked great as far as no leading but I'm concerned if it is possibly sweating or oozing into the powder charge. Now I do allow the lube to dry completely when I pan lube them. But could the lube be possibley fouling up the powder charge ? The Powder or Primers Bad ?

[fryboy]

hard to say ... did the boolit in the bore have unburnt powder stuck to the bottom ?
another thing about h110 is it helps to have a strong/firm crimp and mag primers to get it going good

[cbrick]

You didn't say what load of H-110 you were using but I suspect it was a reduced charge. H-110 doesn't ignite well when reduced and it can and does do exactly what you mentioned, failure to ignite. Never load H-110 lower than book recommended starting charge. As was already mentioned a good solid crimp, mag primers and also a heavy for caliber bullet helps H-110.

Since you also didn't say this was happening with the 2400 load I would say that the lube isn't/wasn't the problem. H-110 is a great powder, I use it by the 8 pound jug, just don't reduce the charge with it, it's not for reduced loads.

Rick

[44man]

You do NOT need mag primers in the .44.
It sounds like you downloaded H110 too much.
Next is no neck tension and the primer is blowing out the boolit before ignition increasing air space. (Mag primers are the worst offender.) Crimp is the last thing to correct that.
Your dies might be at fault with too large an expander. Soft lead is also a problem. You can not get tension with soft lead.
Two things irk me! More crimp or a mag primer for the .44, both are wrong.
Yes you could ruin powder with a lube that melts and your lube does not sound like the best. You look only for no leading but not knowing I will not comment on it.
Bad powder or primers----NO. Too little powder or a lack of neck tension with a high pressure primer---YES.

[lancojames]

I've always had doughts about soft lubes with low melting tempertures containing oil.

[GabbyM]

I will first concur with 44mans’ post.

Then I’d pull a bullet to see if your lube has migrated. MS is Mississippi right?. Ammo may have been exposed to high heat. With any boolit ammo carried in a car it’s best to pack your rounds in boxes then be sure to secure those boxes so the rounds are nose down. That way melted lube will surely run down hill away from your powder.

I’ve never had any issues with hauling around boolit ammo in a vehicle here in Illinois. However I did shoot up a box of fifty 44 magnums last year that had been carried in my pickup for several years then set in a closet for nine more. Load was 8.0 grains Unique under a commercial 240gr SWC with hard blue lube. Had one almost squib. Out of the fifty. Bullet exited the barrel but I think just barely. None of the cases showed nay sign of corrosion on there inside. But for all I know the red dust from decomposed powder may get blown out upon firing. Problem was the ammo was old and had sat in parking lots for years inside a car. No matter if it was lube migration or powder decomposition the cause was long term harsh environment storage.

In summation. Bullet tension is king. Most common issue with poor bullet tension in straight wall revolver brass is bulging the cases with a poor roll crimp die adjustment. This issue is covered in most loading manuals. You can easily end up with the only bullet tension being the crimp. That will not work with H-110.

[Swamp Ghost]

{ Fry Boy } Yes,Alot of unburnt power was found both down the barrel and on the back of the bullet. And at the time I wasn't using Mag primers.

{ Cbrick } No reduced charge used. I use around 23 grains of H110 and use a decent roll crimp.

{ 44man } Don't use mag primers that much. I was reading an article about the use of H110. A fella stated that he was hunting in cold temperatures and his reloads did the same thing mine did. He said he could have thrown a rock further than where the bullet landed. He stated that H110 without the use of a magnum primer does not ignite very well in cold tempts. But my loads always stays inside on my ammo self,free of moisture and sets at room temperature. But I just switched to 2400 powder and have had no more problems. Even my load date book state to use a mag primer with the H110 but that is just something extra to buy.

{GabbyM} Been pondering on doing that. And all my loads do stay nose down in their boxes. Been thinking on adding more paraffin way to my lube to strengthen it up a bit.

[Mooseman]

Years ago I had the same problem with a high pressure .45 colt load for the Contender And Ruger Blackhawk using J words (no Lube)and 296 ball powder. They were heavy crimped and the Magnum primer would blow the bullet 2 inches into the barrel and the Powder would fall out of the cylinder.
It was a brand new can of 296 , new batch number. I determined it to be the powder.
You could pour a pile of it on the ground and touch a lit cigarette to it and count to 10 before it would ignite. Not Good. Never had that problem with 2400 powder.

Rich

[fredj338]

H110 must have a firm roll crimp. I have been shooting & reloading 44mags for 30+ yrs & I do use a mag primer w/ H110. One reason I have switched to 2400, better laod range & runs much better w/o a mag primer in all temps. H110 is fine for max effort loads, but then 100fps doesn't kill game any better so??

[Swamp Ghost]

{ Mooseman } That why I switched to 2400..Never had one fail with it. OH !!! Love your quotes ! I sure would hate to have a wild hog charging me and pull my revolver and it go click. And the plastic trees...that's priceless ! NUTIN" BUT WOOD FOR SWAMP GHOST !

{ fredj338 } I agree
------------------------------------------------------------------------
" Keep Your Powder Dry And Lead In Good Supply "

[runfiverun]

h-110 is temp sensitive,it has a fall off like blue dot does, starting around 30-35 f.
it also needs the high pressure to burn properly so you have to get it started pretty quickly with high neck tension,and a decent roll crimp.

[44man]

{ Fry Boy } Yes,Alot of unburnt power was found both down the barrel and on the back of the bullet. And at the time I wasn't using Mag primers.

{ Cbrick } No reduced charge used. I use around 23 grains of H110 and use a decent roll crimp.

{ 44man } Don't use mag primers that much. I was reading an article about the use of H110. A fella stated that he was hunting in cold temperatures and his reloads did the same thing mine did. He said he could have thrown a rock further than where the bullet landed. He stated that H110 without the use of a magnum primer does not ignite very well in cold tempts. But my loads always stays inside on my ammo self,free of moisture and sets at room temperature. But I just switched to 2400 powder and have had no more problems. Even my load date book state to use a mag primer with the H110 but that is just something extra to buy.

{GabbyM} Been pondering on doing that. And all my loads do stay nose down in their boxes. Been thinking on adding more paraffin way to my lube to strengthen it up a bit.
I don't know how to answer since I have shot 296 with Fed 150 primers since 296 came out. I have shot them well below zero too without any failures or loss of accuracy.
Dies used? Maybe. My biggest problem has always been dies and case tension, NEVER crimp and I use just enough crimp to hold boolits under recoil, far less then many use. Brass is only folded to contact the bottom of the crimp groove, never more.
I have been shooting the .44 since 1956 without a singe failure, 2400 to 296 that I will never stop using.
I just don't know how to figure your problem. You are doing something wrong for sure.

[cbrick]

Dies used? Maybe. My biggest problem has always been dies and case tension, NEVER crimp and I use just enough crimp to hold boolits under recoil, far less then many use. Brass is only folded to contact the bottom of the crimp groove, never more.

Once again I agree with 44man. Here are the results of a chrono/crimp test I did several years back, shows some startling crimp results. These are all the same load using H-110, only the crimp and first or second firing of the brass changed. Fired from a 9" FA 357.


All chrono tests 10 shots

1>
My normal profile crimp, second firing of WW brass, Carbide die sized
E.S. 30
A.V. 1518
S.D. 9

2>
Roll crimp, second firing of WW brass, Carbide die sized
E.S. 30
A.V. 1520
S.D. 9

3>
NO crimp, second firing of WW brass, Carbide die sized, very slight bell
E.S. 30
A.V. 1528
S.D. 9

4>
Light profile crimp, virgin WW brass, not sized, not expanded, slight bell only.
E.S. 26
A.V. 1532
S.D. 8

5>
My normal profile crimp, virgin WW brass, not sized, not expanded, slight bell only.
E.S. 26
A.V. 1536
S.D. 8

Rick

[atr]

for what its worth...here are my thoughs
I too agree in the main with 44Man....
you don't need mag primers
and you don't need a heavy crimp especially if you have good case tension
I DON"T like your lub and I would immediately suspect that the lub has run and contaminated the powder.

[canyon-ghost]

Being that Runfiverun has done quite a bit with lubes, I'd run that recipe by him to see if it was good. Felix or some of the others might know too.

Good Luck,
Ron

[44man]

Rick has found the same as I did after years testing crimps. That crimp means very little except to hold a boolit under recoil.
But even crimp is not enough in poor tension fit. I have shot too many factory cast boolit loads that had excessive crimps--full profile, that tied up guns with 2 shots. Not good in bear country! .454 cast factory loads were the worst. They can get so bad you need to load single shot.
Yet my hand loaded .454's taken to 55,000 psi never pulled a boolit. Just my normal roll crimp.
Ignition problems are NOT solved with more crimp and I wish fellas would get off that band wagon.
You can shoot 296 with NO crimp, single shot and get great results.
Now boolit weight does have an affect with the caliber. Nothing can hold a too heavy boolit under recoil. We tried 405 gr in the .44 and 700 gr in the .500 S&W plus heavy boolits in the .50 Alaskan and .500 Linebaugh. You need to put screws in the brass to hold the stupid boolits in! :bigsmyl2: Brass grip has a limit.
So you have two problems. Pull from recoil or boolits blown out before good ignition. Both increase air space and can make powder fail. Not seen with fast powders but hey, it is still there. A boolit blown out from the primer with a load of Unique is just masked by the fast pressure rise.
Should you worry about tension with Unique? I leave it up to you fellas.

[Gobeyond]

I agree with cbrick. His answer was clear, concise and to the point. The lube data was inconsistent. But the OP never said he used a light load of H110. But it seems obvious he did causing the powder to react badly. The 44special/mag cannot take the full case of it that a magnum cartridge needs. Too much pressure for 44 special case. The lube didn’t affect his 2400 loads, but H110 has a reputation for doing this if handled wrong. So it was not the lube.

[ACC]

When reloading my .44 Spl/Mag Ammo I have had a few firing issues. I have taken up with Alliant 2400 powder now,but I was using H110 powder and using my cast bullets,255gr.SWC "Keith". The problems I was experiencing was some of the rounds would fire perfectly and others would just pop...leaving a bullet stuck half way down the barrel. I use a home made lube that consists of Vaseline , Paraffin Wax , Crayons (For Color) and STP Oil Treatment. The lube has worked great as far as no leading but I'm concerned if it is possibly sweating or oozing into the powder charge. Now I do allow the lube to dry completely when I pan lube them. But could the lube be possibley fouling up the powder charge ? The Powder or Primers Bad ?

Also you CANNOT use light loads with either H110 or it's twin Win 296. I have been using H110 for 357's since it came out and have never had this problem. You need to use a magnum primer and a stiff crimp.

ACC

[poppy42]

Hopefully he’s got it figured out by now considering the OP was from November 2012

[poppy42]

On a side note, Another form I belong to that actually tells you if it’s an older post and suggests that you start a new one rather than comment on the old one. I wonder if that could be done here on this forum? Just a thought. I know I too have fallen victim to commenting on a post that’s been several years old.

[GONRA]

GONRA's pretty sure landcojames is onto it.
Make the same handloads with a known successful
( non oily commercial ) lube to to see wot happens....

[Rapier]

With the heat going on it could well be a storage problem for the powder, before you got it. keeping powder in an air tight container is one thing, but a controlled temp storage is another biggie.
The description is exactly like degraded powder acts, inconsistent ignition.