KIK Powder -old stuff

[Chill Wills]

I just opened an old case of FFF KIK powder I had not tried for years.
It is not the newer "good stuff"
But a case of fff BP, So maybe used for non-demanding accuracy can't be a bad thing.

It is not too dusty but when run through the Cal-Graf screens a can of 3F KIK turns out to retain about 40% 3F and pass 60%. So that is a lot of 4F and fines in a can.

I shot some of the screened FFF in my 40-60 Maynard chambered Hepburn and the velocity and accuracy was OK in some loads. The density is very low weighing only 52 grains to an equal volume of Swiss weighing 58grs.

This powder is about 10 years old and I got it about five years ago. I remember picking this up because of the very attractive price as a close out. The 25lb case was $225 to my door.........so I will shoot it and have fun.

Anyone else have experience with this vintage powder?

[powderburnerr]

only with 2F and it shot for me as good s goex 2F in a 45-70 , and very clean in a 45-2&7/8 at 90 gns with a 500 gn bullet.

[Lead pot]

I didn't know that 3F KIK was available that far back. Last year I had Jerry put 10# of 3F in my order to try it and I did not have to good results with it. It gets the barrel hot pretty fast.
only rifle It worked good is the .50-90 were it had a clean burn with very good accuracy with a 110 grain load behind a 720 grain bullet.
In my smaller .40, .44 and .45 calibers it did not do good.
Is this powder in a plastic can?

[Chill Wills]

Lead Pot, OK, you got me to check.
I had some FF in metal cans from 10 or so years ago and thought that was the only load they brought in during that era. I checked my FFF from Miles City, MT with a date 2007-1, plastic pound can.

It was about five years ago I received it.

[powderburnerr]

my cans are metal ,,,, and from the second batch ,,,I have new to compare with and as soon as I get some empty cases I am going to do some checking.

[Lead pot]

The first KIK I worked with came in the metal cans and the 2F gave me a bunch of vertical stringing especially in the .44-90 BN cases.
The powder in the plastic containers have shot very good.

[powderburnerr]

interesting , it was the best powder I shot with light loads and bullets ,,, didnt work as well with heavy charges and big bullets though. 1F worked way better there in the 110

[John Boy]

KIK made 3 shipment lots of powder with the 4th shipment in route.
The 2004 had no lot marking on metal cans. The 2007 shipment were in metal cans with Lot Jan 2007. The 3rd shipment that arrived in 2010 is Lot 3910. Don't know the lot number for the 4th shipment in route

The progression of the sieve ratios has been amazing with the 3910 lot having the best consistent ratio percentages

[Chill Wills]

KIK made 3 shipment lots of powder with the 4th shipment in route.
The 2004 had no lot marking on metal cans. The 2007 shipment were in metal cans with Lot Jan 2007. The 3rd shipment that arrived in 2010 is Lot 3910. Don't know the lot number for the 4th shipment in route

The progression of the sieve ratios has been amazing with the 3910 lot having the best consistent ratio percentages

I think mine is this lot after Lead Pot asked for details. It came in plastic, for what ever that is worth. That aside, I will be giving it a work out for some close and non-demanding target practice. Thanks for the input-all:drinks:-Michael Rix

[John Boy]

It came in plastic, for what ever that is worth. Chill, the only KIK powder packaged in a plastic container is the current 2010 shipment - lot 3910. Look on the back of the container at the bottom. The lot number is there

[powderburnerr]

powder is powder , the reason powder does not work is because the shooter wants the powder to work as he wants it to rather than loading the powder as it wants to be loaded ,,, I am just saying..........

[Lead pot]

Mine was Lot 3AI/Y/200/04 - 6B/0877

Nae Dean that stuff in my .44 gave 9" vertical 2" horizontal @200 yds no matter what bullet or powder load I used.
This new lot 4G/X16/5/10 really woke up my .44-100 st and the .44-2 5/8 (90). It is very good.

I just picked up some schuetzen 2fg with the German label and shot my first test load with it in the .44 100 Rem and I must say it will work in it.

[Chill Wills]

Chill, the only KIK powder packaged in a plastic container is the current 2010 shipment - lot 3910. Look on the back of the container at the bottom. The lot number is there

John Boy, I am sure you are a lot more knowledgeable than the rest of us re: all things powder, but in this case I am a lot closer to the powder than you And I ordered it... and before 2010.
The picture is clear enough.

The case came from Jerry at Powder Inc. There is no lot number on the back on the bottom of the plastic containers but is as I described in the post above with the 2007-1 year on the front. That is the only batch marking on this powder and the rest of the container and front and back label are generic KIK FFF labels.

Look above the large 622 on the box, the label shows the 2007-3 year as well which almost agrees with the date code on the front of each plastic bottle's label.
Powder bottle - 2007-1, Case label - 2007-03.
No other code or lot or marking special to this powder is on this case of 25 lbs. I am assuming the code on the front label IS the way this lot was depicted.

I hope this helps fill in some gaps for you and thanks for the information you have shared in the past.

OK, This is the limit of my powder forensic patients.
Enjoy! Michael Rix

[cajun shooter]

Chill Wills, The powder that you are showing is 3F and not the 2F that John Boy spoke about.
I also use the 2F KIK and purchase it from Jerry's. My last two buys have been the 2F that is in plastic bottles that have the 3910 lot number on the back label.
I doubt very seriously that you would find 2F and 3F with the same lot numbers or information displayed on the boxes or bottles of powder.
The 3910 has proven to be my go to powder and my stash of Goex Cartridge has proven to be not as much have to keep as I thought. Later David

[Chill Wills]

Chill Wills, The powder that you are showing is 3F and not the 2F that John Boy spoke about. John Boy did not mention FF or FFF that I can see in any post here. but he was responding to MY powder, which is FFF and directing me to look on MY plastic bottles for the LOT #
I also use the 2F KIK and purchase it from Jerry's. My last two buys have been the 2F that is in plastic bottles that have the 3910 lot number on the back label.
I doubt very seriously that you would find 2F and 3F with the same lot numbers or information displayed on the boxes or bottles of powder. Wow! were does this come from? You are reading something more into this than is there! The point of asking is to see if anyone had some experience with this KIK FFF powder. The conversation took a serious turn down a back road.
I provided all the info to ID the powder at this point. I would be interested in shooters experience with it and not so much about who told what to who. We can all read and reread what is posted. :drinks:[smilie=l:

The 3910 has proven to be my go to powder and my stash of Goex Cartridge has proven to be not as much have to keep as I thought. Later David
All the best, Michael Rix

[Chill Wills]

Good to know. In this case (sorry about the pun) My case was a re-pak Jerry put together, I think. He had hand written FFF KIK on the orange paper he taped to the outside of the box. Not sure why.

[Chill Wills]

OK, How about this. To change the direction of this back to loading and shooting I will report back when I have more data.
I will be shooting it dirty in a singleshot (offhand 200 meter full size silhouette match)
I have done this twice so far. I shoot the 5 shots in two minutes twice for ten shots at each NRA silhouette target. 40 shot match- no cleaning. This is my rule not the match rule. Everyone else shoots smokeless.
So far I have shot into the low 30's this way. Big fun.

[Lead pot]

Michael.

After reading this about the 3F KIK I loaded twenty rounds last night to see if I can get away shooting dirty for a Cowboy long range match this weekend and all but one of that group shoots smokeless and the 5 man strings move pretty fast to fast for using fouling control for me.
I shot the twenty rounds using the 3f compressed .300" and a 540 gr Brooks Creedmoor bullet seated just touching the lands and I was able to keep 18 rounds on a Turkey at 200 yards this morning using the .45 90. Barrel got pretty hot because I shot fast, but I had no problem closing the breach.
When I cleaned a had considerable amount of lead or I should say more then usual in the .45-90 that always has pulled lead.

:grin: Here is a 15 month supply of empty cans I havent put in the shed attic yet :grin:

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww43/Kurtalt/th_IMG_1147.jpg

[Chill Wills]

Lead Pot, Just got in and I see your post. Thanks. Good info! Shooting a 90 offhand with a creedmoor wt bullet is a days work. Good for you.

I have been shooting the 40-60 Maynard and it is OK for recoil and will have the 45-70 Highwall - #3 barrel light weight rifle to work up a load for future matches too. Maybe use the 457124 bullet with it.

Snow is coming to our area this Sunday so I am sure out monthly match is not going to happen but next month, .......

Thanks again for the info.

[Lead pot]

I have been down sizing my calibers from the .50-90 to the .44's :lol:
The .44-77 is a ***** cat to shoot and the 20 pound .44-100 is even better.
I have a couple .40's for when I get old:lol:

[cajun shooter]

Chill Wills, I meant no disrespect to you at all sir and was only trying to point out that maybe the information that John Boy(who is a friend) had posted was in error. Not anything about you or your powder.
I read and understood all of your postings and fully understand that you have your powder in front of you and know what you have.
Being that I also used KIK and purchase from Jerrys, I was just pointing out that one was 2F and the other was 3F. I wish you nothing but the best Sir. Later David

[Chill Wills]

You’re a good man David. Haven’t met you but I know you are.

The internet forum has been both good and bad. We get to know like-minded types from all over that we would never have known post 20 years ago. The challenge we have here on the internet, most of us face is reading/writing accurately enough to communicate our thoughts well.

I have written things in a hurry or late at night and gone back and read them later as posts and wanted to crawl into a hole! Thinking to myself “Wow, that is not what I was thought I was writing!” My wife, a professional writer and editor, can crank out a well-conceived page in 3 or 4 minutes sometimes. The same thing would take me two hours and still be awkward and not quite convey what I wanted to say.

Then again a few guys here are just plain poor readers and miss content ,,over and over. That can be hard too.
I’ll keep at this shooting “forum thing” because we get to share so much of our good stuff. The trick for me is not to take what goes on here personally. I shoot competitively and put on both BPCR silhouette matches and a large annual Long-range match ( American Creedmoor Cup) which keeps me grounded.

Take care and continued health! Michael Rix

[Don McDowell]

Chills about when will we be able to view the schedule for next year on the I-70 range tour?

[Chill Wills]

Hey Don, Eron is working on the schedule with the Colorado Rifle Club. We are in line after some of the older matches and Eron has to see what is taken before scheduling us.
The BPCR silhouette matches at Watkins are the first Saturday of the month year long weather permitting. The cowboy silhouette matches are second Sunday (rifle caliber 200m) third Sunday (revolver cal. 100m)
Some months matches work out to have full weekends of shooting. Good if you are coming a-ways.
Have a good winter if I do not see you till spring! M-Rix

[Lead pot]

We need a web site that lists all match schedule and directions how to find the range. In the summer I live in my toy hauler setup for shooting and I always look for scheduled matches to go to. They list the name of the range and that is fine for the people that know where it is but for guys that live halve way across the country have no clue when they are in the neighborhood

[Don McDowell]

Thanks Chill. Hopefully we can find some of those full weekend deals to make the drive more cost affective. Was going to come shoot that last creedmoor, but pulled a muscle in my neck and sprained my ankle on the Thursday prior to the match. So while the shoulder was operable, didn't think standing on the concrete pulling targets was going to be the prudent thing to do with that ankle.
See you guys next spring.

[Chill Wills]

We need a web site that lists all match schedule and directions how to find the range. In the summer I live in my toy hauler setup for shooting and I always look for scheduled matches to go to. They list the name of the range and that is fine for the people that know where it is but for guys that live halve way across the country have no clue when they are in the neighborhood

I agree! Maybe Bryan Youngberg's web page would be the place to add map/driving directions. Sometimes these ranges require some back road local knowledge and like you say, directions would be a help.
I would like to shoot some matches out your way too but never been there.

[Chill Wills]

Thanks Chill. So while the shoulder was operable, didn't think standing on the concrete pulling targets was going to be the prudent thing to do with that ankle. See you guys next spring.

Don, we were hoping you might make it but thought you might have had ranch work come up. Sorry to hear you were not feeling your best! Getting better now I hope!

[Don McDowell]

Getting older sorta sucks and those 250 lb tubs of Sweetlix seem to get heavier. Was doing good till I jumped off the pickup and landed on clump of grass at a bad angle....Doing better now tho, thanks.

[Don McDowell]

I agree! Maybe Bryan Youngberg's web page would be the place to add map/driving directions. Sometimes these ranges require some back road local knowledge and like you say, directions would be a help.
I would like to shoot some matches out your way too but never been there.

There is a competitions page here http://historicshooting.com/mybb/forum-5.html and it would be possible to stick club directions etc into the top..