Need opinions on future purchase.

[wallenba]

I don't own a centerfire high capacity rifle. I think it's time I do. I don't know a thing about AR platform rifles, so I lean toward M1's or M14's. Prices for those are a bit steep, and so is the shooting cost. I think the best fit for me is a Mini-30 or Mini-14 Ruger.
My concerns if buying a used Mini-30 is what was fired in it, and how diligent was the previous owner in cleaning it? Also, how friendly to cast boolits are these two choices?
Is reloadable 7.62x39 brass as affordable as 5.56?
Also considered is a good M1 carbine.
Thoughts?

[Jack Stanley]

I have fired cast in my Garand but with the advent of reasonably priced surplus a few years ago I laid in a supply . I do have some experience with the Garand and found it reliable in every way once I checked the timing and fit of the rest of the parts . Thousands of rounds with no trouble .

The M1A has logged over thirty-eight hundred rounds of surplus and match ammo . The only problem I have ever had has been attributed to the cast op rod . Springfield did replace it but I found and fitted a TRW to the rifle to avoid future problems

I don't know how many rounds my AR15 has seen , probably not as many as the Garand has . I have not been overly cautious in it's cleaning but it has been very reliable and accurate .

I owned two Mini-14 rifles over twenty years ago , neither would shoot better than three inches at a hundred yards . At the time Ruger deciced I wasn't worthy to buy high capacity magazines being just an American . Though company policy has changed and I hear they are better , they are still on my try before you buy program .

I read about lots of fellas here making all of the above run well with cast . I bet you will have a learning curve with any of them you choose . I would suggest a solid Garand and just a few extra spare parts along with a lot of M-2 ball . To me the seem easy enough to make shoot well with anything resembling good ammo .

Jack

[Gtek]

I would steer clear of the Mini line. The 7.62 version has a .308" bore which puts you into commercial ammo ( no cheap Com-Bloc) and higher cost. The .223's I have owned and been around I would class as blasters at best. If your leaning .223 the black gun is hard to beat, but with recent event you may want to move quick on it. Price may be climbing as we speak. Gtek

[Jack Stanley]

One more thought on this perhaps it will be usefull and maybe not . I recently saw a Remington 7615 pump rifle chambered in .223 at a local store . Though it is black , to the gun ignorant it's not as menacing as the new medias version of an AK47 . Price on it was six or seven hundred dollars I forget which .

I bet it would not care if you shot cast in it one bit . I don't know about the accuracy or quality of the newr Remington pump rifles . If you had an interest I'm sure there are guys here that can tell ya all about 'em .

Jack

[Bullet Caster]

From what I've learned on this forum, there's a learning curve with the .223 but I have no idea 'cause I'll never own one. I had an AK-47 that I reload for and the 7.62x39 is probably a lot easier to reload. I also had an M1 Garand that I reload for and the .30-06 is a great round. (I lost all my guns in a fishing accident and they went to the bottom with the boat.) My M1 Garand loves cast. You should reload heavy for caliber for .30-06. I've found that 200 grain boolits over 35 grains of IMR 4895 will cycle the action and is really fun to shoot and doesn't throw the brass too far. I've got some of my 155 grainers that I use in the AK loaded into some .30-06 brass, but haven't shot them yet. I learned from this site to use one more grain of powder (IMR 4895 which is the recommended powder for .30-06) for the 155 grain boolits and they will cycle the action properly. Just havent shot my test rounds yet.

My Garand has a National Match op rod that I think is forged rather than cast so I never had any problems with it. (Someone will probably chime in and tell me whether it's cast or forged.)
You just cannot go wrong with an M1 Garand. That's the sweetest shooting rifle I've ever owned.

7.62x39 reloadable brass (boxer primed) is about $11.00 for loaded ammunition (Fiocci) and isn't all that bad pricewise. You're gonna pay about the same for .223 but Milsurp brass for the .223 is more readily available since it is now a NATO round. If what I've learned about the .223 is correct, some 5.56x45 will not work in a gun chambered for .223. You have to ream the chamber just a little so it will shoot both. Someone with more knowledge than I have will have to get you straight on that one.

As Jack has said, an M1 Garand will do ya right. BC

[starmac]

If this is going to be your only rifle, for a while, what is the main use going to be?

The reason I said for a while is they tend to collect friends.

[Jack Stanley]

Bullet caster , I'm sorry to hear about your tragic boating accident , losing all those rifles is heart wrenching I'm sure .

Please remember when posting about them to do so in the past tense . Such as , "My Garand HAD a national match ......" After all , somebody might mistakingly think you still had it . [smilie=1:


Jack

[Moonie]

Just to throw something slightly different in the mix for ya, I love my AR-15 upper in 300AAC Blackout. Accurate, easy to load for and high capacity.

Until 3 years ago I had no use for a Black rifle, my middle son changed my mind, right after USMC boot.

[wallenba]

If this is going to be your only rifle, for a while, what is the main use going to be?

The reason I said for a while is they tend to collect friends.

Just thinking that I don't own something that might be needed in a civil emergency. Something with a chambering that is common, universally stocked ammuntion found just about anywhere.

[MBTcustom]

Just thinking that I don't own something that might be needed in a civil emergency. Something with a chambering that is common, universally stocked ammuntion found just about anywhere.

Like a 30-30?

[Love Life]

Just thinking that I don't own something that might be needed in a civil emergency. Something with a chambering that is common, universally stocked ammuntion found just about anywhere.

Skip the minis. You will try to fulfill a need they weren't made to fulfill.

Get an AR or an AK. They were made for what you have in mind, and excel at it.

[Bullet Caster]

Yeah, Jack, I should have refered to them in the past tense. Sometimes I like to think that I STILL have all those guns. Don't want to give the guberment the wrong idea. Thanks. BC

[starmac]

Like a 30-30?

I sometimes work with a bunch of guys that are way into the black guns (ones owns a tactical gun store). They get to talking about them on the cb, and I will ask if that model comes in 30/30. It really gets there goat.

The good thing is he doesn't give much trade in on sporting firearms and sells them when he has them cheap.

[wallenba]

Like a 30-30?

I do have a Searschester Model 100 Ted Williams...but. It has some issues with loading. It does not like to take in the last round.

My local gun shop has in the rack now, a Winchester made M1. Problem is, I've seen that same rifle come and go several times in the last couple of years. I recognize it by it's newer handguard. I suspect there is something wrong with it for it to keep coming back. They want $795, a bit too steep for me.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

the Garand is 80 year old technology. The M1A is just modified 80 year old technology. Stuff bends, gets out of time, slamfires, etc. It would be like owning a 1928 Ford with a crank starter.

It is 2012, buy an AR-10 and go happy down the road.

I have had my DPMS 308 sniper model (24" heavy fluted barre) for nearly three years. If I want I can purchase uppers in 243 and 260 and 7-08 for it in 16/20/24" barrel lengths. Magpul sells a nifty polymer 20 rd magazine you can buy for $20 apiece.

Mine digests boolits from 130 to the awesome 311247 (252gr w/GC and lube), mixed loads in the mag. It does not care what you feed it, until you go waaaay overboard on pressure.

I scoped mine, and it shoots 5-shot groups under 2" at 300 yards with the BHA 168gr Open Tip Match, and sub-moa out to 600. As far as I had a bench rest to use.

LAR is also offering one that looked as good, at the last SHOT Show.

Rich

[BD]

Don't discount the ARs until you've tried them. I'd never shot more than a round or two out of an AR until one day a fellow convinced me to try one at a three gun match. One stage and I was a believer. Better ergonomics and a much easier platform to make accurate and reliable than anything else out there.
BD

[wallenba]

Don't discount the ARs until you've tried them. I'd never shot more than a round or two out of an AR until one day a fellow convinced me to try one at a three gun match. One stage and I was a believer. Better ergonomics and a much easier platform to make accurate and reliable than anything else out there.
BD

Can I make one with a walnut stock?:kidding: (old school:D)

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Wallenba,

they are in the #65 Brownells catalog.

Next question...?

[MBTcustom]

Here ya go:
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/stock-forend-parts/furniture-sets/ar-15-m16-wood-stock-sets-prod38906.aspx

[BD]

Hey, if you want to carry the walnut, be my guest! Personally, "looks" are pretty low on my priority list for a civil defense rifle.
BD

[wallenba]

Here ya go:
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/stock-forend-parts/furniture-sets/ar-15-m16-wood-stock-sets-prod38906.aspx

I really like the camo laminate here.

Now I'm getting interested. I really like the feel of wood, it's not all about the looks. At my age, a forced march with full gear is not gonna happen either, so the weight is not a big issue. Can't be as bad as a Romanian PSL, which I have read about.

Ok, what about recommendations for a good reciever that won't break the bank? This would be a winter project, not an all at once build.
223 or 300 blackout?

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have a suggestion for you that is quite different from all the rest.

Kel-Tec SU16CA. It is a.223 cal gun made largely from polymers and steel.

http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/rifles/su-16ca/

The gun has AR style lockup, driven by AK style gas piston, Chrome lined barrel and chamber, it uses AR magazines, and it folds in half, and weighs about 6.5 lbs fully decked out with an optical sight, sling and two loaded ten round mags in the buttstock.

I recently bought one used, which is a somewhat rare thing to find. It came with the accessory M4 style foreend a muzzle brake and a large red dot sight. I spent some money on a Bushnell Red Dot sight and a foreend flashlite, some Magpul P Mags and some other doodads, and I added the 1.5" sling, which is my own concoction.

The gun is an absolute joy to carry and shoot!

It has all of the attributes of an AR with none of the faults. You have compact firepower that you can carry with you on outings into the woods, either folded in a back pack or on the sling accross your back, and not have to heft a 9lb gun with a bunch of sharp points gouging you which gets old pretty fast.

It has a conventional stock, or Kel-Tec offers a pistol grip stock as well as some other things as accessories. Most AR accessories like muzzle brakes, mags and rail mounted doodads fit this gun.

Kel-Tec also just brought out the same gun in .300BLK and it is about the same price as just a .300BLK upper for an AR if you wanted a larger caliber.

Mine is accurate with my reloads of recycled GI bullets, and powder and range brass which is plentiful. It also runs Wolf brand commie ammo perfectly. The gun is piston driven so it doesn't get dirty and stop running like an AR will. Guys report 800-900 rounds before cleaning which is a testiment to the gas piston design.

You should have a look at one of these guns as it will do everything an AR will do for a fraction of the price and fold in half to fit in a back pack as well. It is compact enough to be discreetly carried in your car, and with the loaded mags stored in the buttstock if you can just get to it, you are well armed.

Sounds like exactly what you're looking for. :holysheep

Here's some pics of mine with some accessories installed. I can hit the 24" gong at 300 yds with it every time off a rest with just a red dot sight. [smilie=2:

Randy

[Jack Stanley]

At the fun show this past saturday I saw a Rock River LAR-8 lower reciever for sale . I didn't really pay attention to how much it cost but thought the idea of having a rifle that takes optics easy and shoots 7.62 NATO ammo was a good idea . If you like the stubby cartridges there are lots of ways you can go with a standard AR15 reciever .

As one that isn't likely to carry a full pack or do a forced march , I think I like the sound of the bigger rounds . A .308 that can be a 260 Remington or a 338 federal :smile:I think I like it .

Dutch , the project sounds way better to me than sitting on the ice hoping to coax a bluegill into biting a waxworm .

Jack

[wallenba]

Dutch , the project sounds way better to me than sitting on the ice hoping to coax a bluegill into biting a waxworm .

Jack

No tip-up town for me anymore either. Too cold on the bones. Also spooked by F-150's sinking through the ice on lake Erie. Recent years with the warm winters we've seen fishermen on ice floes broken off and rescued by the coast guard.
My gun room is warm and cozy.:-P

[wallenba]

[QUOTE=W.R.Buchanan;1914843]I have a suggestion for you that is quite different from all the rest.

Kel-Tec SU16CA. It is a.223 cal gun made largely from polymers and steel.

http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/rifles/su-16ca/

That is interesting. I've never seen that one before.

I've seen one of these http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=260 A Daewoo K2, and was real impressed.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Dutch: It is a gun I was aware of but had never had much interest in simply because I had not been able to handle one. They are readily available, but you don't see them often in gun stores. I personally don't think the word has gotten around on this gun. Most of the tactical guys and preppers know about them, and they do sell fast when in stores. Kel-Tec ships 2000 guns a week, but that includes all of their guns, However ALL Kel-Tec guns sell quickly.

Once I got to handle one it grew on me pretty fast. Took about 3 minutes seconds to decide to buy it.

My wife now says I am obsessed with it. Which is pretty much what she says about anything I pay that much attention too.

I'm also obsessed with my Jeep, but that's another story.

Check out my thread lower on the page about this gun. "New gun for me!"

Randy

[wallenba]

Dutch: It is a gun I was aware of but had never had much interest in simply because I had not been able to handle one. They are readily available, but you don't see them often in gun stores. I personally don't think the word has gotten around on this gun. Most of the tactical guys and preppers know about them, and they do sell fast when in stores. Kel-Tec ships 2000 guns a week, but that includes all of their guns, However ALL Kel-Tec guns sell quickly.

Once I got to handle one it grew on me pretty fast. Took about 3 minutes seconds to decide to buy it.

My wife now says I am obsessed with it. Which is pretty much what she says about anything I pay that much attention too.

I'm also obsessed with my Jeep, but that's another story.

Check out my thread lower on the page about this gun. "New gun for me!"

Randy

I looked the photos over pretty good on the website. Dang if I can't see an ejection port. Where do they go?

OK...I just watched some video on youtube. Hard to believe the cases eject out of that itty bitty slot without an occasional hiccup. I watched the teardown and I'm likin' the piece more and more. Especially the price. Going out to some shops tomorrow to see one in the flesh.

[jp99]

the Garand is 80 year old technology. The M1A is just modified 80 year old technology. Stuff bends, gets out of time, slamfires, etc. It would be like owning a 1928 Ford with a crank starter.

It is 2012, buy an AR-10 and go happy down the road.

I have had my DPMS 308 sniper model (24" heavy fluted barre) for nearly three years. If I want I can purchase uppers in 243 and 260 and 7-08 for it in 16/20/24" barrel lengths. Magpul sells a nifty polymer 20 rd magazine you can buy for $20 apiece.

Mine digests boolits from 130 to the awesome 311247 (252gr w/GC and lube), mixed loads in the mag. It does not care what you feed it, until you go waaaay overboard on pressure.

I scoped mine, and it shoots 5-shot groups under 2" at 300 yards with the BHA 168gr Open Tip Match, and sub-moa out to 600. As far as I had a bench rest to use.

LAR is also offering one that looked as good, at the last SHOT Show.

Rich

Hmm I believe the AR-10 was introduced in 1956 making it a 56 year old design that is only 20 years newer than the M1. I'm not going to say either of them are bad designs, they both have their issues and they both have their advantages. Just as my preferred action (HK91) has it's issues and advantages. A properly built rifle on any of these actions will shoot better than most people are capable of. Weight and felt recoil change from design to design however.

All being said, I think you'd be happy with any of the three designs and toss in the FAL, AK, SKS, there are many possibilities out there it's just a matter of what you like and getting a quality firearm or knowing how to fix lesser quality built ones.

Regards,

JP99

[David2011]

Dutch,

Everyone on this forum (or any other for that matter) was born with the same knowledge about AR-15 or anything else they discuss. You have lots of good advice here already. Don't be afraid of the AR platform. You will learn as you need to. They are versatile and flexible. They use one of the universal cartridges in the .223/ 5.56 NATO chmbering. Go with a 5.56 chamber for maximum versatility since 5.56 should not be fired in a .223 chamber. Most ARs in .223 are match grade rifles; unnecessary for civil issues.

The ammo is readily available at low prices and reloadable brass is very available. The AR can be as accurate as any store bought rifle in any chambering or configuration. REALLY accurate ones are more spendy but there are tons of ARs that will shoot inside an inch at 100 yards. I highly recommend a flat top style A-4 configuration and a 20" or longer barrel, while not as quick in close quarters as a 16", will generally have a much smoother recoil that the 16" barrels. I'm not saying the recoil is HARD, but in many 16" rifles it is HARSH and contributes significantly the movement of the rifle when the bolt carrier hits the end of its travel making follow up shots take more time. The carbine length gas system just propels the bolt carrier harder than the rifle length gas system and it tends to hit the stop before expending its energy.

The flat top configuration allows for accessory iron sights, a red dot or a scope as you feel fits the need. For the ultimate in flexibility, you could have uppers in 5.56 and 7.62x39 giving you the choice of two of the most popular cartridges in the world.

Good luck with your decision.

David

[wallenba]

OK guys...I committed to an AR platform this afternoon. I purchased a stripped Model M&P-15 (S&W) lower reciever. I'm going 5.56 with it, and a flat top upper. First thing though is to order an assembly guide book somewhere or DVD. Are there any essential tools I absolutely need? Next buy will be the lower parts group I guess, once I figure out the best quality/value brand. I think I already paid a bit too much for the lower ($200) but I wanted a brand I recognize and trust.
On this budget build I should be finished by spring.

[wv109323]

I own M1 Garands, M1A and AR-15. I would recommend the AR-15 over the M1 and M1A. You can shoot the .223 2 to 1 over a thirty caliber.
The AR-15 is unlimited in the options available. The M1 and M1A are very limited and more expensive to modify.
The Mini-14 and Mini-30 have never been known for their accuracy.
The .223 is much more pleasant to shoot than the .30 calibers
If the ,223 cartridge will do what you want to do that is the way to go.