aluminum foil

[johnson1942]

question: has any one ever heard of any one patching a bullet with kitchen alminum foil. it is the same thickness approx. as number nine paper.

[I'll Make Mine]

I've seen a lot of posts suggesting aluminum is a bad thing to put in your bore. The reasoning is that aluminum forms a surface oxide coating, and that oxide is the same stuff as rubies and sapphires, therefore will wear out your bore.

On the other side of that, there are a lot of additives in common papers that are harder than barrel steel, but overall paper patches produce less wear than gilding metal jackets, which give a barrel life around ten thousand rounds at military loadings.

Where you're more likely to find trouble, in my untested opinion, is that you'll have more trouble with foil cutting through, sticking on the boolit (hence causing eccentricity and inaccuracy), and depositing in the bore, than you'd have with paper -- and you won't find it any easier to get the foil on tight and smooth than you would with paper applied wet, but the foil won't shrink after application; wet paper does.

[johnson1942]

thanks ill make mine. last night i made up 3 al. foil bullets. they were 550 gain .50 cal for a 1-28 twist 36 inch barrel custom side lock muzzle loader i built. i use this morning 100 grains behind 2 fiber wads and i couldnt believe how they shot 3 holes touching at 100 yards. i didnt expect that. i did coat and let dry over night 2 coats of rooser paper patch lube. to day im going to try a couple of 700 grain .50s in a custom `1-23 twist i have and see what that gun does with that. i think the lube may protect the bore from the foil. i never would have believed it untill i saw the results. thanks again for the in put.

[I'll Make Mine]

Well, I have to say I'm happy to be wrong about what to expect. I can't say what if any long term effects the foil will have on your bore, but it sounds as if you may be starting out to expand our knowledge on what works and how well.

[johnson1942]

ok this is what goes on with aluminum foil. absolutly shoots to the best of expetations but is really dirtier with fouling between rounds than anything i ever shot before. i could never shoot target with it because of the fouling. you could hunt and expect the best because blackpowder is usually only one shot anyways. i dont understand the fouling with the same lube i use on paper but it is their in spades. the accracy never failed me on my two guns but the fouling was really disapointing. oh yes as i posted recently in the muzzleloading section for those who are adventureous try wax paper. it reall shoots very very good with no more fouling than normal. has to be put on dry and is already lubed. it is as thin as number nine paper. i would rap them in the field when i was out and about with my muzzleloader.

[725]

Keep up the good work and keep us informed.

[n.h.schmidt]

They make aluminum foil with something like teflon on one side. I have used that for cooking and even burnt on stuff just pulls away. It may have some use for what you are doing. Likely stop the most of the friction and wear too.
n.h.schmidt

[MUSTANG]

Good to hear some positive results. A couple of years ago I tried aluminum foil as a patch over an RCBS 165-308-Sil boolit with exceptionally poor results, both at the loading bench and at the Target.

I found that trying to seat the boolit in the .308 I would get tearing of the Aluminum patch. Boolits were sized to .309. I was using the lee mouth expander to bell the mouth (I have since slowly been buying Lyman M-Die Expanders for all the rifle calibers I shoot, to many destroyed cases with the Lee Mouth Expander dies).

I may have to go back and give this a try some day in the future. Currently too many other Boolit Projects on the burner, as well as establishing moving furniture North to 2nd Home in Montana we just acquired. [smilie=2:

Mustang

[johnson1942]

to n.h. schmidt and mustang: now you two guys have really got me excited. i have got to find me some teflon backed aluminum foil it cant help but work. the gun it worked best in for me was a barrel that wouldnt accept paper patched bullets. it was cut 5 thousands deep and i think 4 thousands is max on a pp patched muzzleloader. but the foil shot so good in it it was like looking at the target in a surreal zone and not believeing what you are seeing. the holeswere touching. if i can get some teflon backed foil it would most likely solve the fouling problem of more fouling. these are all bump up bullets so i dont know how it would shoot in a cartridge gun. in my .45/70 i use reloader 7 a wad and a.451 bullet patched to .459. i put a long throat in the back of the barrel. the bullet sits in the barrel in this throat. it is extreemly accurate. thanks again i love shared information. several heads are better than one.

[MUSTANG]

As I said earlier; I had POOR results in my past attempts; but I am willing to try again in the future.

I also in the same period tried the Teflon Tape theory and had even worse results for the same reasons, tearing the tape when seating in the Brass Case.

Concerns over abrasive action from the aluminum are an area that needs consideration and documentation. I would bet that MILLIONS of rounds of Aluminum Gas Checked rounds have been shot by members of this forum, yet we do not see any postings (documentation - not conjecture) of excessive barrel wear or damage in that application. I will concede that the surface area of an "Aluminum Paper Patch" application is significantly greater than a gas check, thus may have opportunity to do visible/measurable damage that an Aluminum Gas Check does not. I think that when I go back to exploring this again; I'll use a sporterized Mauser 98 I have that has a barrel that inside looks like a sewer pipe. Developing a Cast Boolit load for it that gives a baseline, then start testing with aluminum foil as a patch. If bad action occurs, loss is minimized. Besides, if it goes badly I have a never used/pristine 7mm barrel that I bought years ago to put on that rifle.

We are setting up a 2nd home in Montana and I am moving furniture in the horse trailer, so available time to even visit the Cast Boolits site is at a premium for the next few months.

Mustang

[johnson1942]

to mustang and n.h. schmidt: boy do i have good results to report on the telon coated aluminum foil. i got some to day when i went over to valintine ne. to take my sons deer to the meat processer. i rewrapped a few with the new foil. i could tell right off it was slightly thicker and much stronger than reg. foil. it went down my .50s barrel slightly tighter which i like. i again used 100 grains of goex 2f 2 .60 fiber wads and this 550 grain .492 double wrapped bullet. i lubed the teflon side once with lee alox. i could keep one hole ragged at 50 yards. never once went out side a quarter size hole. no fouling problems like with uncoated foil. in fact shot a little cleaner than number 9 paper. i put the foil on two wrappes rectangle in shape barely leaveing enough to fold into the slightly hollow base cavity. i bought the bullets from buffalo arms. i can never express enough thanks to you guys for the tips and encouragement. that gun is now a tackdriver. johnson1942

[Ecramer]

I haven't tried even paper patching yet, so any opinion I could offer would be useless, but (you knew there was going to be a but, didn't you?) has anyone thought of COPPER foil. It's fairly readily available here: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/copper-foil-rolls/copper/raw-materials/ecatalog/N-c0x in thicknesses as little as .003.

[montana_charlie]

I haven't tried even paper patching yet, so any opinion I could offer would be useless, but (you knew there was going to be a but, didn't you?) has anyone thought of COPPER foil.
Yes, it's been thought of and even tried. Every conceiveable type of paper has been experimented with ... along with aluminum foil, masking tape, gummed labels, paper mache, teflon tape, linen cloth, and epoxy paint.
A forum search can turn up information on all of them.

I don't think anybody has yet tried panty liners or BAND-AID® products, but be sure to report on how they work out for you so that anybody else - who has no access to paper - can choose a suitable substitute.

CM

[Lead pot]

[smilie=l:[smilie=l:Now Charlie dont you be giving them and of those band aid ideas or they will take the Baby band aids with the cartoon characters away from Mom to use to dry up the tears on the little ones!:)

[johnson1942]

for my one gun with 5 thousands deep lands it works like a dream, with the teflon on it. the rest of my guns it shoots the same as paper which is very very good so i will stick with paper with them, cant see why copper foil wont work thanks for the tip, i wrote down the web site in my note book. speaking of linen im in the process of have a mould made where the back of the bullet is a patched round ball and the fron is a slightly ingraved bore rider. i first made some of these up by screwing a .495 round ball to a .509 roundball. shot really tight. of course in a 1-28 muzzle loader. wouldnt work in a bpcr. their are a lot of 1-28 muzzleloaders out their. johnson1942