Cast 44 bullets in the LEE seating/crimping die

[tacotime]

Loaded some 240gr cast bullets for 44 MAG with the Lee dies. Never noticed any issues with cast or jacketed bullets loading 44 special in the same dies, but the 44 mag feels rough in the seating die, crimping feels odd, and it looks like it's very slightly shaving the bullet diameter. These Laser-cast bullets are marked .431 in.

Is this die just too small for .431 bullets?

I think some of these die sets are marked 44 Special/44 Magnum, while others are marked 44 Magnum. Not sure if that makes any difference in regards to length adjustments.

[runfiverun]

seat without crimping.
you might just be feeling the case mouth flair scraping the die,
run a flaired and non flaired case in the die,see how it feels.
crimp after seating,, separatly.

[tacotime]

I think it is, judging from the scraped look of the "ring" or "shoulder" of the bullet that is left outside the case after seating, though not very much.

But with that said, it makes sense, because I also noticed a small accumulation of lead shavings up inside the seater die at the "cone", which saying that, I think also caused a few rounds to run out, as I think I saw a little side bulge on a few of the finsihed rounds... so a bit of a running disaster all around.

I ordered the Lee Factory Crimp Die and will now crimp separately...

[MT Chambers]

Save the money and crimp separately with your existing die, that's what it's made for.

[tek4260]

Save the money and crimp separately with your existing die, that's what it's made for.


+1

I always seat and crimp separately.

[kweidner]

Seat then crimp +2. Extra step. I don't always have to do it depending on how hard the crimp. On a good crimp it is necessary or you will have troubles. My oversize 44 mags I do not have to crimp separately bc of the neck tension is so high because of the size of the boolit. I don't run much of a crimp on that boolit. Just enough to get it in the chamber and I have never had one "creep"

[44man]

I almost never crimp in a separate step. All of my high accuracy loads are seated and crimped at the same time.
I do have extra crimp dies like Redding profile but they work best with jacketed because my larger cast will not fit through them without being sized.
The LFCD is a waste of money and can ruin loads.
Maybe some dies need done separate because of poor design to start with, I sure don't know. All of my revolver dies are Hornady now.
Seating dies need clearance while the boolit is held in line. Maybe the die is so small it irons off the flare before the boolit has entered and shaves lead.
Lead shaving is not from the tiny, final crimp portion, it starts before that.
Dies make or break accuracy and I tossed too many or made other things with them.
Even top dies can be wrong. I have been loading .308's with a friends Redding dies for his rifle. Even a lubed neck had me lifting the bench off the floor pulling out the expander. It was bending shoulders. I lapped the neck portion to reduce the pull and am down to .002" run out or less. It is an easy pull now to remove the expander.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Loaded some 240gr cast bullets for 44 MAG with the Lee dies. Never noticed any issues with cast or jacketed bullets loading 44 special in the same dies, but the 44 mag feels rough in the seating die, crimping feels odd, and it looks like it's very slightly shaving the bullet diameter. These Laser-cast bullets are marked .431 in.
If your shaving Lead, it's either from not flaring the case mouth enough or there is lead being shaved because the nose mating plug (cone) inside the die is incorrect for the boolit nose profile or is adjusted incorrectly. I wouldn't normally think the later, except you mention lead shavings in the die. I don't suspect the seater die is too small for a oversized cast bullet, but I guess it's possible.



I also noticed a small accumulation of lead shavings up inside the seater die at the "cone", which saying that, I think also caused a few rounds to run out, as I think I saw a little side bulge on a few of the finsihed rounds... so a bit of a running disaster all around.
If the bulged brass still chambers, it shouldn't be a problem, assuming it's uniform all the way around...if it's just one side, that's gonna problematic, especially for accuracy. If your accumulated lead inside the seater die made the boolit seat in a cocked position, that surely would bulge one side of the cartridge.


I ordered the Lee Factory Crimp Die and will now crimp separately... Cancel this order, the Lee FCD may work good for jacketed, but it's bad for cast bullets...and real bad for oversized cast bullets...and really really bad for softer alloy (BHN 12 and under) oversized cast bullets.

Lastly, normally you don't need a heavy crimp, just basically unflaring the case mouth is all that's necesary...EXCEPTIONS ARE, using a powder that recommends a medium to heavy crimp, Like H110 or 296. and ammo loaded for tube magazine lever action rifles.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I ran into this very thing this week , i found following the directions of screw the bullet seating die in until it touches the shell holder then turn it out 3 full turns wasn't right for my brass and boolit combo, I draw a line in pencil on the die and turn it out 3 turns , then i tried a dummy round , i tried a few more screwing it out a half turn on each , i found about 4 1/2 turns was the right crimp for my fat boolits

once i had it backed out each half turn i ran the cartridge back in then lowered the seating depth till it touched and adjusted from there

but some of the roughness is also the flair scraping the inside of the die , and if you flare a piece of brass and then run it in it still makes some scraping and resistance


I had previously used the die in the same turret with the same brass but with j-words , and didn't notice the roughness , but i didn't flare nearly as much either my boolits are just larger hence the need to back the die out and added resistance

4 1/2 turns still left a generous crimp these boolits are not going any were till fired so 5-6 turns may be necessary to just straiten the flair

i run size and deprime , then flair then powder thru then seat , and leave the fcd in the box 4 pulls to a finished cartridge

[brotherdarrell]

I seat and crimp in one step. It is all in how you set up your seating die.

This is how I set the die up:

1 - Make sure all brass is trimmed to same length.

2 - Put trimmed, flared and sized brass in shell holder and raise to full height.

3 - Screw in seating die until it touches the mouth of brass, back out 1/2 turn.

4 - Put boolit in case mouth and seat bullet until just barely below top of crimp groove.

5 - Back off seating depth adjustment on seating die several turns.

6 - Turn in seating die until it just touches case mouth, lower ram, screw in seating die
1/2 turn (or 1/4 turn if crimp groove very shallow) and raise ram crimping case.

7 - check amount of crimp. If more crimp desired screw seating die in more.

8 - Once desired crimp is obtained raise ram all the way and screw in seating depth
adjusment until it just touches boolit.

9 - Place fresh brass that is trimmed and flared into shell holder. Place boolit in case
case mouth and raise ram, seating and crimping. If results are as desired tighten
set screw on die lock ring (with Lee dies I mark die and lockring with sharpie).

10 - Die is now set to seat and crimp in one step.

The above takes less time to accomplish than the time it took me to type this. It is dependent on one thing and that is to trim brass to same length.

brotherdarrell

[tacotime]

Thanks - I think I got it set right now. My issue seems to be that the die appears to be shaving the bullet down (I don't think the case mouth is shaving). The shave marks appear on the exposed bullet rim of the finished/loaded round. These bullets are marked .431. I wonder if the LEE die is made for .430 bullets possibly?

I loaded some other Laser-Cast .44 SWC (from a much older lot) using a different LEE seater and found no shaving. I wonder if older Laser-Cast were .430 or this other die is a bit larger than the first...

[Highdesertshooter]

I am new to cast bullets but not reloading,I have found the Lee crimp Die worked on jacketed bullets fine.

Now that I am loading more cast I shaved lead untill I added more flair............ and now have more consistant cases no shaving or swaging down the bullet.
I now seat and crimp in one step and dont use the crimp die on cast.