30-30 load

[beefyz]

This has been asked before but i was hoping maybe some others have since worked on a solution or come up with additional suggestions.
Have bought some missouri cast 135s, bhn 18, W/O gas checks. brad says to keep them between 1600-1800. trouble is , i cannot find any data specific to a 135 cast. i have the current lymans, hornady, speer, etc etc, and none of them carry any data for it. i've been told that some of the older manuals had cast data that did specify some loads for either a 135 or a 140, the data that could also be used. I DO NOT want to use checks; some of these bullets are more expensive than shooting jacketed and if thats going to be the case, why bother shooting the cast to begin with. I was thinking of a test load of 5744 at about 17 to start. h4895 was another possibility about 21grs. Is unique a possibility here ? Hodgdon would NOT recommend any other powder except trailboss or h4895. Anybody go this route before.? Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated.

[dano440]

I don't know it this will help. I have 30-30 in a marlin lever gun shooting 150 grain lead bullet with green dot 8.5 grain at about 1325 fps. i have 1:10 twist with 20" barrel. You might try dropping the speed down 1320 to1400 fps. I have used unique but got better results it green dot. I am shooting about 2" or sometimes smaller groups at 100 yards. but I am running gas check due to the barrel is a micro-groove and it leads easy.

[rhouser]

Check out www.gmdr.com and look at the Oregon Trails data. Lots of options for the 30-30. I tend to go with SR4759 when I am reducing velocitites to the 1100 FPS ranges, but, have tried trail boss as well. Just my 2 cents. thanks rc

[Lonegun1894]

Without getting into which powders are most efficient at which ranges in this case, which I am not the most qualified person here to get into, I do have one piece of advice for you, which you already know, but just as a reminder. Just find a powder load for a heavier bullet to use with your lighter boolit, as using a lighter than listed boolit will lower pressures. Just make sure you do not confuse this as using a heavier than specified boolit will raise pressures and could turn ugly quick. I have done this with many calibers and it has always worked once the load was fine-tuned. Just use the data for the heavier boolit as a guide as you know that load will be safe with your lighter boolit. As to Unique, I shoot 90gr SWCs with as little as 2.7grs Unique for a quiet small game load in my Marlin 336. I dont know the velocity, but it is low, and the load is good out to 50 yds on rabbits/squirrels, but I limit it to 50yds. It is about useless at 100yds. My light load for 100yd shooting in this gun is 10.0grs Unique with a 150gr FNGC boolit.

[leadman]

The 17gr load of 5744 IMO is too heavy with no gas check. Try 8grs of Unique and work up 1gr at a time. The top end will probably be around 12 grs.

With no gas check everything will have to be perfect to get 1,800 fps.

As to the cost, this would be a good time for you to get into casting your own boolits. A Lee 2 cavity mold is around $20. You can shoot a gas check boolit at low velocities without the gc.
A steel pan of some sort, a dipper, mold, Lee sizing kit, some lead bought off Selling & Swapping here or scrap, and you are good to go.
I do recommend a Lyman M Die so you do not scrap lead off the boolit during seating. A Lee Universal flaring die works but is marginally up to the task.

If you don't have success with the plain base boolit send me a PM.

[beefyz]

Accurate got back to me today and confirmed that 17 gr load might have to be a bit reduced. I figured i would be trying unique at some point. What i don't understand is why Hodgdon only recommended h4895? I could also use Lonegun's suggestion of using 150 data. Then all the powders that i currently use will be there. But at the 150 velocities, wouldn't the 135s be moving fsater, and therefore more likely to lead w/o the GCs? Has anyone tried that Lee system wherby you reduse certain powders by 1% until you reach the desired velocity? I'm assuming you can do this only with the powders they are specifying. 335 is right next to the H4895 on the burn chart. Lee reduces the 335, Hodgdon wouldn't. It appears i could then use 335 to solve my problem. Again, Hodgdon didn't recommend any other powders.
I think i can safely say i WILL NOT get into casting. Just not enough time in the day to do that will all i have to do now.

[Lonegun1894]

You're absolutely right that the 135s will be moving faster than the 150s when using the same powder charges. I should have mentioned that but failed to do so. I have not tried reducing by 1% at a time, as most of my PB shooting is with fairly light loads of Unique, so I can't comment on the other powders from experience. Regarding the faster velocities, I think the secret is getting the right combination of powder, size, alloy, and powder and then putting it in the right gun. I have reached velocities of over 2K fps with plain based boolits in one gun with no leading, and then taken the same boolit and not been able to go over 900fps in another gun of the same caliber, so it really is a matter of getting the right combo. My Rossi .357 isn't picky at all as long as I size to .358" or larger, and I cant drive em fast enough to lead up the bore. Now my Marlin .30-30 leads like crazy with anything that isn't sized to .311", and cant drive PB over 1100fps, but GCd is fine up to 2450fps, even if the loads are a bit over book max, so I slowed them down to around 2300fps and it shoots them well. Then you take my Springfield 1911 that I usually use the Lee 200gr SWCs in. Load them over Unique, and it eats them up without leading. Load them with any of the other powders I have ever tried, and it leads like crazy. Things like that will drive you a bit crazy, but once you figure out what the gun wants, shooting cast is a great improvement over jacketed.

[GabbyM]

My load for a Saeco 140 grain plain base in 30-30 is 7 1/2 grains of Unique.

[beefyz]

Found an old lyman ,#44, and there was data for a 131 cast w/o check using IMRs 4227,4198, & 3031 whose starting loads all kept me under that magic 1,800 fps. Question; why weren't these powders recommended by Hodgdon, at the very least? Does data from a few years become obsolete ? It doesn't say they are "reduced" loads, just starting loads. Maybe they are saying today that the starting loads wouldn't be that good so they have eliminated them and going any higher would force me to use a check. Again, the only powders Hodgdon recommended were H4895 & Trailboss.I'm going to have to call them again on this.
Final question; What happens if you remove the check on a checked bullet ? Would it become a safety issue? I'm assuming the worst that would happen is you would get leading while shooting it at a velocity it wasn't intended for w/o that check. Correct ?

[gnoahhh]

You certainly may remove the check from a bullet. Results may or may not be very good. One way to find out...

I think you are expecting too much out of that bullet w/o a gas check at 1800 fps. Conditions have to be dead right to get away with it. Be ready to spend a lot of quality time with your cleaning rod for I fear leading is in your future. I would stay down under 13-1400 fps and work with powders like Unique, Bullseye, Red Dot, Clays, Trail Boss, etc. That's a pretty light bullet to allow slower burners such as you mentioned to build up enough pressure at low velocity for efficient combustion, IMO.