Fn/fal

[twotoescharlie]

anyone shoot one of these?

TTC

[randyrat]

A bunch ..Very cool rifle..I had an FAL Imbel and I also had a US built that put me thru hell and back. I got it to run and I learned almost everything there was about FALs. I have put my FAL fever on hold for now.
Mine i discovered had a hunger for 308 ammo. I could shoot up a 200 rd battle pack in no time and measure it in minutes. I could lay down continued suppressive fire.

One was a metric rifle and one was inch rifle, neither were fine range rifles, they were built battle rifles for heavy fire, not accuracy.

I would much rather carry 500 rds of 5.56 than 200 rds of 308.I have respect for the FAL but would never want to carry it in battle.

[45 2.1]

Yes, several of us do so. They can be 2 or 3 minute rifles with surplus, but if you do your homework, most of them can benefit from it and shoot much better than that. The 30 Sil GB currently running is the boolit to use.

[bob208]

i had one in to work on one time. the thing ate up every loaded .308 round i had in the shop. they shure can go through some ammo.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Have two and they each shoot the RCBS FNGC 180 grain sized at .310 very well. That is my boolit of choice whenever starting to shoot a caliber .30 rifle. All my caliber .30's seem to like it that I have tried it in.
Mike in ILL.

[scb]

Not as extensive as his M1A "report" but still interesting.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=63136

[timspawn]

Yes. I had a Pre-Sample G1. It was a hoot. Most of my range time with it was full auto.

[blikseme300]

A bunch ..Very cool rifle..I had an FAL Imbel and I also had a US built that put me thru hell and back. I got it to run and I learned almost everything there was about FALs. I have put my FAL fever on hold for now.
Mine i discovered had a hunger for 308 ammo. I could shoot up a 200 rd battle pack in no time and measure it in minutes. I could lay down continued suppressive fire.

One was a metric rifle and one was inch rifle, neither were fine range rifles, they were built battle rifles for heavy fire, not accuracy.

I would much rather carry 500 rds of 5.56 than 200 rds of 308.I have respect for the FAL but would never want to carry it in battle.

Why would you not want to carry it in battle? Some, including myself, carried these in the wars in southern Africa in the 80's and hated the later switch to the smaller caliber.

As for accuracy out to 600 meters the FAL is no slouch and it still arrives with plenty of grunt.


Bliksem
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[herbert buckland]

Ruber trees are no protection against the 7.62,I would much prefer to take one shot with a SLR tha a magizine full with the M 16

[Mooseman]

I have 2 FN/FAL rifles.
One is the STG58 I Built on a US receiver Metric Pattern with a Steyr hammer forged barrel and it is scoped and a very accurate rifle.
The other is a heavy barrel Israeli Model and it shoots like a dream but it is a heavy gun and made for an emplacement.
They both eat any 7.62 Nato ammo I feed them.
They are tough battle rifles.
Rich

[Multigunner]

My experiance with the FAL type rifles is limited but I found those I've fired to be more accurate than most give them credit to be.
Most of those I have fired were assembled by a very talented gunsmith from handpicked parts. These were no doubt a step above the run of the mill rifles.

The gas system has plenty of adjustment, but some .308/7.62 ammo gives too high a port pressure. When this sort of ammo is used the action attempts to unlock before residual pressure drops. When that happens case rims are badly deformed so the case is no longer reloadable.
Never had a failure to extract but from the looks of those rims I suspect a rim could be torn away.
Cranking down the gas regulator to its lowest setting did not prevent this.

[Haggway]

I have two of these, an Israeli, and a browning import from the early 1970's.
They both shoot great. As multigunner stated about the rims, I have actually had a rim get ripped off a case during a dcm/cmp match. Other than that there are no probles with them. Well they are rather greedy when it comes to feeding them.
Timspawn. You are one lucky guy having owned a select fire FAL.

[StratsMan]

I also love shooting my L1A1 (inch pattern)... It cycles reliably anything I feed it in .308 (jacketed), and will hit a paper plate at any range I've had the opportunity to shoot (usually no more than 200 yds) and me shooting offhand... I've never met a metric pattern gun that fit me with that straight comb stock, but the humpback stock of the inch pattern fits me well.

I could burn 250 rds each time I pick it up pretty easily... Don't shoot it much these days...

[mud lake]

Why would you not want to carry it in battle? Some, including myself, carried these in the wars in southern Africa in the 80's and hated the later switch to the smaller caliber.

As for accuracy out to 600 meters the FAL is no slouch and it still arrives with plenty of grunt.


Bliksem
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Rhodesian/SouthAfrican "bliksem" naughty, naughty! But I agree with you on the power level on a FN/FAL as opposed to the mouse-shootin' .223. Give me the heavier to carry but heavier hitting round. Ek sal jou donder man! (with my FN/FAL!!) :Fire::Fire:

[gew98]

Love my pre ban L1A1 Enterprise...it's all brit but the receiver. My metric enterprise is fun and now sports a brit type fluted flash suppressor w/o bayo lug and L1A1 handguards. Gonna change out the mag release to an L1A1 when I get a chance too !.

[lead-1]

I loaded up a couple thousand .308's for my CETME and then bought a FAL, my second one, and the rounds that were already loaded shoot great thru the FAL. And boy do it eat them up fast, lol.

[Combat Diver]

My first FAL was a Springfield Armory SAR48 Bush rifle (18" para bbl with fix stock) made by Imbel. Added a ARMS reciever mount and mounted a 2.5x scope. My longest whitetail kill was at 300m with it. Later picked up a Belgium FAL 50.63 IIRC in Germany.

EOD found couple Belguim select fire ones buried in Kuwait in the mid 90s. We cleaned them up and they ran fine. Carried couple FN/FALs during my tours in Iraq along side my M4A1 and NM M14 but never got use them on that 2 way rifle range. I would trust my life with one again.


CD

[twotoescharlie]

lot of good answers, appreciate it fellers.

TTC

[L1A1Rocker]

Oh, I've got a few here and there.

[BruceB]

My "love affair" with the FAL began about fifty years ago with the Canadian C1, which was my issue rifle for my service in theCcanadian Army. Over the years since then, I don't believe I was EVER without a personal FAL . I presently own a gorgeous DSA version with semi-fancy walnut in butt, pistol grip, and handguards....it's finished like a fine sporter.

The dust-cover scope mount, at least the one from DSA, is NOT a quick, easy slip-it-on-and-off item. It's held by no less than TEN decent-size screws, securing five locking pads to ensure its stability .....and the screws are Loc-Tited (?) to boot. Definitely a MAJOR job to remove, but hoo boy, it is SOLID! Of course, if the scope is in QD rings, it dismounts from the Picatinny rail easily.

It's always a quandary for me, when asked if I prefer the FAL or M1A/M-14. On a given day, I could answer either way.

[Combat Diver]

One other modification I did to my SAR-48 Bush Rifle was to change out the charging handle with a Isreali one that pushed inward. Had a notch cut in the bolt on the other side giving me a forward assist. Came in handle after hauling up my rifle into a climbing tree stand and then chambering a round quietly.


CD

[L1A1Rocker]

One other modification I did to my SAR-48 Bush Rifle was to change out the charging handle with a Isreali one that pushed inward. Had a notch cut in the bolt on the other side giving me a forward assist. Came in handle after hauling up my rifle into a climbing tree stand and then chambering a round quietly.


CD

I took some measurments from an Isreali bolt carrier once upon a time so I could install that charging handle. If I can find where that drawing is I'll post it on this thread.

[MtGun44]

Anybody have any recent experience with Entreprise FAL recievers? How about Conan or DSA?

Bill

[medalguy]

I have an Imbel FAL, and it's a great rifle. I love shooting it at 600 yards and find it to be very accurate, but hungry. I never take less than a can of ammo to the range with me. Fantastic way to spend an afternoon.

[Artful]

Anybody have any recent experience with Entreprise FAL recievers? How about Conan or DSA?

Bill

How recent is recent? One of mine like 5 years old now - just went together with STG58 parts kit (included lug head spaced within spec's) got it from Harlan (nodakspud)

Mark/Gunplumber's review
http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/notes/notesfal/faldci2/pagefaldci2.shtml

[Corvus]

anyone shoot one of these?

TTC

DSA and an Imbel right now but have owned a few others over the years.

[MtGun44]

OK, Artful, thanks. I have heard that "older" (whatever that means) Entreprise
receivers were inconsisent in quality, numerous complaints about feed ramps, etc.

Any issues in your build?

As to the OP, yes, none of the ones that I have shot over the years have been better than
2 minute rifles, fairly typical of gas guns with the oprod flailing along the bbl, I think this is
not very conducive to target grade accy.

Bill

[9.3X62AL]

I surely wouldn't mind having some sort of FN/FAL derivative rifle, though most of these are verboten here in the PRK. Their status as such has a lot to do with my cravings--I do so like to piss off hoplophobes whenever and however possible.

Others have noted the ammo consumption rate of these 308/7.62 self-loaders. The ONLY way I could afford to keep the M1As and HK-91 fed and running when I owned them was to work LOTS of overtime. Voracious 223s are cheaper to run than their larger-caliber counterparts, but cast boolits would keep costs under control--an avenue I didn't explore with the 30 caliber stutter-rifles.

[Artful]

Mine works and went together great - 2 MOA is a good average - they can be ammo sensitive for accuracy - I used up all my Santa Barbara that it liked best but with that I was under 2 MOA - had some Pak/Indian junk was 4 MOA plus with that junk.

If your looking to build I'd see about finding a build party or experienced person who already has the tools you'll need. Don't forget the 922 required parts (ugh)

[seagiant]

Hi,
I never pass up a chance to show my Austrian Styer Damlier Puch STG-58 I built from a parts kit on a Brazilian Imbel forged receiver. These were considered the cadillac of the metric FALs! At the time the whole parts kit was $150 and the reciever was $200! Hec the hammer forged barrel by its self is probably worth that today! I have lately been taken over by the AR-15 rotary bolt system in .308 or .223,but will never sale my FAL!!!

[MtGun44]

I have the frame blocks and have done this before, no need for assistance. Just
trying to decide on $350 for an Entreprise or $450 for a DSA receiver.
Got the compliance sorted out, too.

Bill

[Ed in North Texas]

Bill, Built 2 Coonan receivers up about 2 years ago with kits I'd had for a while. Fine folks to do business with, and I had zero problems with their receivers. I'd recommend them.

Ed

[sagamore-one]

By all means get the DSA. I have two, both 16 inch and both group under one inch at 100 yards with decent ammo, better with match ammo, and not bad with cast. And... if you ever decide to sell, the DSA will bring a premium . I shoot off the bipod using a Zeiss 1.5- 6 power scope.
For trigger work , try Denny Williams of Williams Trigger Service out of White Heath , Ill. Absolute artistry in metal.

[Ed in North Texas]

By all means get the DSA. I have two, both 16 inch and both group under one inch at 100 yards with decent ammo, better with match ammo, and not bad with cast. And... if you ever decide to sell, the DSA will bring a premium . I shoot off the bipod using a Zeiss 1.5- 6 power scope.
For trigger work , try Denny Williams of Williams Trigger Service out of White Heath , Ill. Absolute artistry in metal.

A Gun Plumber home build on a DSA receiver will bring a premium if he wants to sell? Just asking, I don't have any plans to sell any of mine but any information is worth something to someone.

Ed

[MtGun44]

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Actually, I am leaning towards the DSA, not necessarily for premium resale, but to see
if the extra $100 gets me more than I got from the past Imbel and Entreprise receivers.
I think I might pay a bit more for a gun built on a DSA than on an Entreprise receiver.

Bill

[shotstring]

I used to have one of the original Belgian FALs that was a consistent minute of angle gun. Never a misfire, jam or malfunction of any kind during the 10 years I owned it. Then I sold it. Jeeez, what a dummy.

Now I have one of the brazilian clones, but I have never shot it - just sits in my safe. The thrill is gone after letting go of one of the good ones.

[NuJudge]

Anybody have any recent experience with Entreprise FAL recievers? How about Conan or DSA?

Bill

I had some issues with an Entreprise receiver years ago, and they still get bad reviews on FAL Files. No problems in service.

To my surprise, DSA got some not happy reviews awhile ago about their magazines. I bought some and replaced their springs with extra power springs from Wolff and the trouble went away. I have had no problem with a receiver on build or use.

Imbel made (and may still make) perfect receivers. Gun plumber says he's typically seen better accuracy from Imbel than FN or Steyr barrels. I intend to replace a Steyr barrel with a Imbel soon and test it.

Century receivers originally were made by Imbel and were excellent, then by others and are to be avoided.

I had a Coonan built a little while ago and the builder said it was perfect.

The one FAL barrel which has not bent rims on me was a British barrel with a chromed chamber. I've tried everything to get rid of bent rims: stronger piston springs, undersized pistons, stronger action spring, and nothing works.

[nemesisenforcer]

Yes. One of my faves.

[303Guy]

I did my military training with one and while it might be a fine battle rifle it was a piece of pooh to carry around the parade ground and on the training ground. The operating handle wasn't the best thought out either - very clumsy to operate. But we are not talking about training or parade grounds or even battle fields - just having and shooting with. Nothing wrong with then there. In my day they had a reputation for being very accurate and were used in military target shoots by the home defense guys long after the Galil clone was adopted by the military. Those boys swore by them and I recon some terrorists probably swore at them. Friends of mine have one as well as a Chinese M14.

[nicholst55]

I have the frame blocks and have done this before, no need for assistance. Just
trying to decide on $350 for an Entreprise or $450 for a DSA receiver.
Got the compliance sorted out, too.

Bill

Check with DSA before you order their receiver; they used to give a $100 discount to FAL File members. Not sure if they still do or not. Be advised that recent DSA receivers require smaller-than-standard-size locking shoulders.

[nhrifle]

I had a CAI rifle and shot it quite a bit. It was accurate enough for a battle rifle, though my loaded NM M1A definitely outshot it. I only had one malfunction with it involving the cheap Indian 7.62 ammo that was in circulation for awhile. Had a round that only partially went off(still can't explain that one). The bullet was lodged in the barrel just out of the chamber (the next round wouldn't go into battery) and the bolt was hard to rack. The receiver was full of unburned powder, and was interfering with the bolt. The bullet came out with a light tap of a cleaning rod. I think I got lucky on that one!

All in all an excellent design and I wouldn't hesitate on one if it comes my way.

[waksupi]

A friend left one with me to shoot one summer. I didn't care for the ergonomics, and much prefer my HK G3.

[MT Chambers]

I used the Fn in the Canadian Army as well as the FNC2 , a full auto derivative, most had worn bores and were very heavy when loaded esp with 30 rd. mags....couldn't give me one now, I'd rather have/use the smle!!!

[NuJudge]

What is the story on the different patterns: inches, British standard, or metric? Magazine interchangeability?

Most parts are interchangeable between inch & metric guns, and an upper from one will always fit on a lower from the other, but the mags are very different. Inch mags have this big locator ledge on the top front of the mag, while metric mags have this tiny triangular area pressed outward at the top front. The pistol grip and butt attachment are also different. Within one type there is enormous variation in furniture and attachments.

There are a lot more metric parts available because only British Commonwealth countries used inch, and 50+ countries used metric.

[MtGun44]

+1 on waksupi's comment. I have a few but the grip angle and location of some
(not all) of the safeties suck in my opinion. G3/HK91 seem to suit me better, and
better front sight by far.

Bill

[gew98]

OK, Artful, thanks. I have heard that "older" (whatever that means) Entreprise
receivers were inconsisent in quality, numerous complaints about feed ramps, etc.

Any issues in your build?

As to the OP, yes, none of the ones that I have shot over the years have been better than
2 minute rifles, fairly typical of gas guns with the oprod flailing along the bbl, I think this is
not very conducive to target grade accy.

Bill

I am of the opposite opinion. Some of the FAL nutz out there poo poo post beuna vista marked receivers , but my 4 digit serial pre ban era L1A1 is a perfect brit cut and runs like a champ. I've got a very recent enterprise metric and it's not given me hiccup one.

[MtGun44]

gew98,

Thanks for the feedback. I wonder if the hysteria hasn't hit the FAL market yet.

Bill

[fouronesix]

Shot one quite a bit about 15 or so years ago. Unlike some other's experiences, I liked the fit and ergonomics for shooting off hand. Kind of reminded me of a jazzy new age M-14 or M1A. Shot extremely well semi-auto. No way-no how could I control it full auto though!

[Combat Diver]

The way to control them full auto is to lean way into it. With proper training 3-5 rd bursts of 7.62x51mm is controllable. I've done it with G3s and FALs.


CD

[fouronesix]

An FN FaL from the shoulder or even an M-14 in full auto from the shoulder can be held down from excessive rise but good control on target is almost impossible. My impression was the FN cycled a little faster than the M-14 and I couldn't feel as much bolt torque or vibration. For me shooting these, it was almost better to hold tucked just above the hip and shoot instinctive from the start- kind of like holding a sub machine.

[Larry Gibson]

Shoot either with 2-3 shot bursts as intended and they can both be held on target with correct technique. With the M14A1, particularly from the bipod, a 20 round burst can also be held on target. It is not the rifles fault if the user can not use it correctly, so we should blame the user and not the rifle for idiotic 20 round "bursts" from the hip or from the off hand psosition if he can't control and use the rifle correctly. Used correctly either the M14, M14A1 or the FN/FAL ar quite controllable in the full auto mode. And then, an individual who knows how to do it can even keep a 20 round burst on target (like an E type at 100 meters). I coment from considerable experience with the M14A1 and the FN/FAL.

Larry Gibson

[loiner1965]

i loved the slr when i was in the forces in the late 70s.....in my opinion its the best calibre for a soldier to carry in battle.
if you are going to kill the enemy and that is the general idea then they is no comparison between the 2 calibres

[Multigunner]

The Japanese developed a downloaded 7.62 cartridge for use in a select fire rifle they issued for a short time. I've seen videos that indicate these rifles still in use with their version of a homeguard. Those rifles were fairly heavy ,had a bipod as standard equipment, and could double as a squad auto.

A medium velocity light bullet version of the 7.62 NATO, still having plenty of punch, might be the answer to controllability in situations where taking the proper stance may not be possible.
A zinc alloy core would allow a bullet in the 125 gr weight to remain long enough for good rifling contact. long range accuracy would suffer, but it should be accurate enough within 400 yards.
Such a cartridge would be reserved for close up combat, with longer range loads available for longer range applications.

[gew98]

The Japanese developed a downloaded 7.62 cartridge for use in a select fire rifle they issued for a short time. I've seen videos that indicate these rifles still in use with their version of a homeguard. Those rifles were fairly heavy ,had a bipod as standard equipment, and could double as a squad auto.

A medium velocity light bullet version of the 7.62 NATO, still having plenty of punch, might be the answer to controllability in situations where taking the proper stance may not be possible.
A zinc alloy core would allow a bullet in the 125 gr weight to remain long enough for good rifling contact. long range accuracy would suffer, but it should be accurate enough within 400 yards.
Such a cartridge would be reserved for close up combat, with longer range loads available for longer range applications.

Relevance to what here ?.

[Marvin S]

I put one together about two years ago with the Enterprise receiver. I to read bad reports of the older ones and you should get an Imbel. The newer ones where supposed to be fixed and mine did not give me any problems and worked perfect outside the fact that I had to custom grind a slightly smaller recoil/locking lug than you could buy.

[Multigunner]

Relevance to what here ?.

previous posts

Shot extremely well semi-auto. No way-no how could I control it full auto though!

The way to control them full auto is to lean way into it. With proper training 3-5 rd bursts of 7.62x51mm is controllable. I've done it with G3s and FALs.


CD

Shoot either with 2-3 shot bursts as intended and they can both be held on target with correct technique. With the M14A1, particularly from the bipod, a 20 round burst can also be held on target. It is not the rifles fault if the user can not use it correctly, so we should blame the user and not the rifle for idiotic 20 round "bursts" from the hip or from the off hand psosition if he can't control and use the rifle correctly. Used correctly either the M14, M14A1 or the FN/FAL ar quite controllable in the full auto mode. And then, an individual who knows how to do it can even keep a 20 round burst on target (like an E type at 100 meters). I coment from considerable experience with the M14A1 and the FN/FAL.

Larry Gibson

Seems to me theres more than a little interest in full auto controlability of 7.62 NATO chambered rifles.
The downloaded cartridges seem to have worked well for the Japanese and the early CETME rifles.
Three shot Bursts have there place, but theres also a place for longer controled bursts.
Not every user will have the same high level of skill as Larry and some others.

Downloaded cartridges have been used in the past to allow better accuracy,and reduced muzzle blasts, from police and military carbines in both single shot and bolt action repeaters.
The Trapdoor carbine, the old Martini , the Mauser police carbine in .30-6, etc.

Since this is a handloading board, differing loads for different purposes are of interest to most members.

Cast zinc alloy bullets weigh in at 2/3rd the weight of lead bullets of the same volume.
While making zinc core jacketed or half jacketed bullets would be possible by swaging, simple cast zinc alloy bullets would serve the civilian shooter just fine.

[gew98]

previous posts




Seems to me theres more than a little interest in full auto controlability of 7.62 NATO chambered rifles.
.

Again you missed the whole point of this thread on the topic at hand... why ?.

[Multigunner]

Again you missed the whole point of this thread on the topic at hand... why ?.
Point of this thread, Opening post.

anyone shoot one of these?

TTC
Seems like everyone here has fired the FN FAL and its clones to some extent, and those who have fired these in service have posted their impressions on its controllability or lack there of in full auto fire.
As I mentioned this is a handloader's board, and all here, except yourself it appears, have some interest in differing types of loads for specific purposes.

Don't know what you are on about and could care less.

[waksupi]

You know, I am seeing some one here being a disruptive influence. It isn't the first time this person has done that on this board, but it is getting a lot closer to being the VERY LAST TIME!

[historicfirearms]

I read this thread with great interest since I just did some trading and acquired my first FAL. It is a Century build and I already had to do some modifications to the feed rails in the receiver. There is lots of info on the FAL files if you can stand to read through the posts. Lots of grumpy curmudgeons on that site. We are lucky here in that most everyone is very helpful and polite, hopefully we can keep it that way.