.311 boolits in 30-30

[blixen]

I've just got a .311 Lee sizer for my C312-185-1R mold that throws slugs at about .313.

I was hoping the .311 was going to be perfect for my 30-30 Marlin with micro-groove and also my Stevens bolt action 30-30 with a .310 bore with rifling edges down to .305

But the loaded cartridges won't chamber in either rifle. In the stevens, with force, the bolt will close but won't turn down. The Marlin won't lock up.

Details: full length resized and the brass works fine without the bullet.
The bullet goes in easily, but the OD of the neck increases about .01.

The next Lee sizer is .309, is that the solution? and can the C312-185-1R be sized down that much?

[richhodg66]

I size all my .30-30 bullets to .311 and never had a problem. I have a 340 that likes that diameter. I also have a Marlin I haven't shot a lot, but had no problems chambering them.

Can you try a different manufacturer's brass to see if maybe a different barnd will work?

[atr]

same here,,,my 340 likes boolits (C312-185 gr) sized to 0.311 and chambering is not a problem.
I suggest you check your seating depth ...you may be seating them too far out
atr

[nanuk]

what is the diameter of the neck with a boolit seated?

can a boolit fit inside a fired/nonsized round??

[largom]

+1 on checking your seating depth.

Larry

[Ben]

blixen

Better check that seating depth and look at the nose and drive bands for engagement marks from the rifling before you jump to any conclusions on this one .

I own over a dozen .30 cal. rifles, there isn't a single one of them that won't chamber and fire a .311 cast bullet.

Ben

[oneokie]

Are you using a roll crimp? If so, you may be applying too much crimp and bulging the case mouth.

[blixen]

All good points. I'm knew to cast boolits so I appreciate the feedback.

I rechecked things beginning with bullet length. I kept seating it back gradually until the round finally chambered in the Stevens/Sav. 340. COL is 2.45".
The round would not seat in the Marlin until it was at 2.37".

According to Hornady, the max. COL is 2.55." But, of course, J-words have a sharp curve to edge of the rim.

The only issue (as if i knew what I was talking about) is that the gas check is well down below the neck. Is that a problem?

I guess the proof is in the shooting. Thanks again.

To answer the other questions: Winchester brass, no crimp.

[Ben]

blixen

Relating to your comment above in # 8 - - - According to Hornady, the max. COL is 2.55."

Each rifle is " unto itself ". People read in books that a COL is supposed to be XXXXX.

Few take into consideration that so many different chamber reamers have been used through the years as to make data like this almost irrelevant. When you combine the many different nose lengths and nose profiles of the many cast bullet designs that are out there........, well, .......there isn't a book that I know of that can take all these variables into account and provide an optimum COL for a particular cartridge in tens of thousands of rifles. Can't be done !

When someone invents a brand new wild - cat round and begins their testing , where do they obtain the correct COL ? ?

You need to learn how to establish a workable COL for each of your rifles with a particular bullet style that you enjoy shooting .

In the past 2 - 3 yrs. I can't tell you how many questions I've seen about someone wanting to know the COL for a particular cartridge for their rifle.

This roughly equates to someone telling you that they are thinking of a number between 1 and 1000 and wanting you to tell them the number.

This needs to be established by the reloader not a book.

As to your concern about " the gas check is well down below the neck ", some shooters on this forum will tell you to try and avoid this condition. Some will tell you it is potentially dangerous, others will tell you that they have shot thousands of rounds with cast bullets that had gas checks below the neck? It depends on who you are asking ?

BTW, I very often shoot cast rounds that have their gas checks below the neck. I've never had a problem and many of them were extremely accurate also.

[richhodg66]

"BTW, I very often shoot cast rounds that have their gas checks below the neck. I've never had a problem and many of them were extremely accurate also."

That has generally been my experience as well, though it gose against general wisdom among cast shooters. As you said, the proof is in the shooting, if it doesn't cause a problem, no worries.

[izzyjoe]

the boolit may be .311, but what size is the nose of the boolit? Marlin's are known for there short thoat's, i have a few marlin's that have a .301 bore. but you should be able to tell if the rifling was engraving the boolit. you might wan't to do a chamber cast, then you will know what you have.

[Ben]

blixen

You can easily learn to establish the COL for your own rifle by doing the following procedure when seating a new bullet in a load that you've never fired before :

* Seating long at 1st and trying to chamber a round.
The round shouldn't chamber, now go to the 2nd step..........
* Turn the seating screw down 1/4 turn and try again.
* Try and chamber again....most likely it will need to be seated deeper again. Don't turn the seating screw more than 1/4 turn downward on any attempt.
* Continue this procedure until the cartridge chambers.

* Once the cartridge chambers using this method, if you'd like to back the seating stem out a 1/4 turn and try a 2nd round, you'll eventually end up with the OAL for the loaded round that will allow the bullet to lightly " kiss " the rifling.

For me and many others , allowing the nose of the bullet to " kiss " the rifling ( you should see light engraving marks on the nose ogive of the bullet ) will often times offer maximum accuracy with a cast bullet in a rifle.

Ben

[richhodg66]

Isn't that bullet designed for oversized .30s like the .303 British? If so, it seems very likely that the nose diameter could be the problem. Lee's 170 FP, and the Lyman 311041 are designed pretty much for the .30-30.

He's about to stop production, but the Ranchdog bullet for the .30-30 is designed around the Marlin rifles as I understand it. It didn't shoot real well in my .340 in the limited experimentation with it, but it shots great in my .308 Model 99 and will be my main deer hunting load/rifle combo this year when the season opens.

[blixen]

Thanks, all.

Ben, your 1/4 turn method is pretty much what I used to determine the COLs for my 30-30s.

RichDog, yes, it's a bullet meant for the Brit. lee-Enfield. The nose on that bullet is about .305" and the Sav. 340 rifling starts cutting into it immediately after the ogive ends.

I plan on using the bullet in my SMLEs, my 7.65 Argentine Mausers and my 30-30s (and maybe if i take on paper patching, in my 8mm Yugo). it seemed like a good mold for me to learn casting with.

[richhodg66]

It'll most likely be a great bullet in those and might be in some .30-30s as well. Seems I read where the 340s had odd bore dimensions, but I never have slugged mine.

I'm not that advanced a caster, but know that alloy and even casting temperature can have an effect on as cast diameters, you might try some experimentation to see if that may help.

[Dan Cash]

I see two possibilities: One already mentioned that the bullet nose is too long but second, you don't mention case length. I load competition ammo for 2 different Marlins. After one or at most two firings, the cases require trimming or there are problem with interference with the chamber throat and pressure increases. I am loading a Lyman 311041 bullet and trimming after each firing; the cartridges chamber without difficulty.

[HangFireW8]

I prefer gas checks seated in the neck, but as you noticed, it is not always possible.

I apply two tests to boolits seated low. One, I should not be able to spin or remove the gas check with my fingers and nails. Two, there must be lead flush with the check, no gap or lube groove just ahead of the check.

Of course don't use old slip-on gas checks (I have a few).

HF

[williamwaco]

The quarter turn method is very precise. More so than most people realize.

The dies are threaded one turn in 14". one full turn moves the die 1/14"

A quarter turn seats the bullet deeper by 1/(14 *4) = 0.0179 inches.


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