Big load changes from old manual to new?

[destrux]

I'm preparing to load some .45acp 185gr bullets with a light load of Bullseye, I was browsing my load data and found this...

The Lyman 47th manual lists starting charges of 3.5 grains and max loads of 6.0 with a 1.175" OAL.

The Lee manual lists charges much higher. The starting charge is 6.4 grains, max is 6.7 with a 1.275 OAL.

Is there a reason the Lee load starts off above the max load that Lyman lists?

I'd like to load as light as will function, but I don't want a bullet sticking in the barrel either. I was thinking about a 4.5gr load with an OAL of 1.20".

These are jacketed loads, I know, I got a few boxes of old Speer hollowpoints for free from a friend so I'll be giving my furnace and molds a short vacation.

[btroj]

Depends on what specific bullet. Bearing surface length makes a difference. In 45 ACP the depth of seating makes a difference too. Don't look at OAL, look at how deep into the case the bullet base is, that determines powder space and deeper means higher pressure.

[fecmech]

I think the Lee manual might be for high performance jacketed hollow points. I doubt you will stick a jacketed 185 with 4.5/BE, the old government GI 230 gr ball load was 5.0/BE.

[felix]

3.5 grains of BE or any similar speed, is a typical 50 foot bullseye round with either 185 or 200 grainers. So, that would be the true "minimum" load, jacketed or otherwise. ... felix

[jhalcott]

Those companies ALL use different components AND barrels to test their loads. All the bullets are made slightly to vary different in jacket thickness or core hardness. Even point shape can effect the pressure when fired. ALWAYS start low and work up ,even when using identical components. ESPECIALLY if substituting components. I have several manuals I consult when starting a reload project, I average the low and high charges. Usuallydrop te high ones and work up from the low end till I get the best performance I think I can get WITHOUT any over pressure signs.

[destrux]

Thanks for all the help.


I tried some 4.0 and 4.5 grain loads today (I suspected the 3.5 wouldn't cycle the gun). The 4.0gr load was too light to cycle properly. With the 4.5 I had one stovepipe out of 15 rounds, so I'm going to work up some 4.7 grain charges to keep the gun reliable.


I settled on a 1.225 OAL. It's a guess, I admit, but it's above minimum OAL for every 185gr JHP I could find. I know what you mean about the seating depth, but I'm not sure what to do with that to be honest, I can measure it but I have nothing to compare it to since all my books tell me is OAL. I'm staying on the light side of these loads though, it's just plinking ammo, so I feel safe with the spec I chose.

[BCRider]

Your gun's ability to eject the empties can play a part in your determination. Since you're starting with basement velocity loads you're seeing failure to cycle and eject correctly. The other factor is to aim the gun generally at a target or simply the backstop then shoot off a mag while watching the ejection distance of the casings. You want to see them flip out a good three feet to the side or more which indicates a good ejection power and a gun which won't stovepipe. On the other hand if the casings are barely dribbling out over your hand or slightly better than you are setting the stage for lots of stovepipes and failures to lock back on the last round.

So ramp the loads up until you're getting reliable ejection with no stovepipes and the gun locks back on the last round. The locking back on the last round is another good watermark for cartridge power. If the loads are soft there isn't enough energy to cycle the slide back far enough to catch the slide lock. It can be that soft and still operate reliably otherwise depending on the nature of the gun itself.

If you are truly keen on achieving low recoil and low velocity target shooting rounds for this gun then you can look at softer recoil springs which will work with the reduced loads. Just don't go back to full power loads without switching the recoil spring back or you'll be needlessly beating up the slide and barrel lugs.

If you liked how the 4.5gn loads felt other than the stovepipes switching to the lighter recoil spring would make such rounds function just fine with NO stovepipes and good ejection distances that indicate a happy gun.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

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