Help with 270 Win J words for black bear

[xd4584]

Please first let me state that I DO NOT want this to turn into a argument over the 270 being enough for black bear. I need help choosing the best bullet from what I have.

This is a last minute trip decision, that I may not have the chance to do again.

Through my trading and buying I have ended up with the following bullet choices:

Nosler Ballistic Tip Hunting Bullets:
130 gn
140 gn
150 gn

I already have a load I use for the 130's for whitetail.

I also have these bullets:

Speer Grand Slam 130 gn

Sierra Flat base spitzers in 130 gn

Now, I am not trying to sound cocky, but I am a good shot with my remington 7600 270. I have not missed a deer in 10 years with it, whether standing at up to 150 yards or running full bore across a field at 140 yards (don't get to many long shots around here). I also know some people do not like Ballitic tips. I have had nothing but good success with them. Typically one shot kills except for my buck from last year and that was with remington premier ballistic tips. Every whitetail I have shot with the noslers does not make it far, if they go anywhere at all. My load, in my rifle, with the 130 grain Noslers will group 3 shots in 5/8" at 100 yards.

Now, where I will be bear hunting is in north central pa. It is not as open as where I deer hunt on farm lands in south central pa. I only expect a shot of less than 100 yards.

I cannot afford to go buy a $50 box of bullets right now. Christmas is coming and the kids are not going to be happy to open boxes of reloading supplies.

Which one of these will be my best choice?

[runfiverun]

do the bt's penetrate through a deer?
if so they will penetrate a black bear no problem.
if not i'd use the grand slams.

i would like to get some reloading stuff for christmas or bout any other time.

[Clinebo]

Myself, I'd go with the 150s.

[xd4584]

Lol. Me too. My 5 year old step daughter might like it.

I haven't recovered any of the nosler bt's. The remington premier first shot failed to expand. When straight through and the buck ran about 75 yards and collapsed. It was a close shot maybe 40 yards.

One of the smaller doe I shot at 140 yards had a complete pass through and most of her lungs were on the ground opposite of where I was shooting.

Every deer I can remember using the noslers on has been a complete pass through.

[xd4584]

I was thinking the 150's too at first. Supposedly they have a heavier jacket.

Would adding a cannelure help at all?

[fouronesix]

The 270 is one fine caliber- so no argument from me. Like any of them it depends on more than coffee shop talk. Of all the bullets you listed the Grand Slam is the best bullet for the job. A better bullet would be a premium 150 that you don't have. The BT is NOT a premium, controlled expanding bullet. If you still want to use the 150 BT then slow the thing down a little- you'll get much better large game performance. In the end it's your choice on doing the best job of cleanly killing whatever you are hunting. I've seen BTs perform poorly on game, especially at higher impact velocities. Yet some swear by small caliber, high velocity, high wow factor performance. Whatever

[Dennis Eugene]

Everything Fouronesix said is right spot on. I've kilt a passel of deer with BT in both 270 and 25/06 and have seen a few go bad ,hit neck bone take a sharp turn and take out a complete front shoulder. Bear are a lot tougher bone wise I've seen a few kilt and I would use the Grand slams they may be lighter than the heavy BT but are a much more skookum bullit.

[xd4584]

Well it looks like I'm gonna go with the grand slams. I've never shot anything but 130's out of my 270 so maybe I should just stick with them and trade the higher grain stuff for something else I need.

Thanks guys!

[Lloyd Smale]

contrary to what you hear black bear arent hard to kill. Ive seen more tenasity in whitetail deer then in black bear. Any 130 or heavier 270 bullet is MORE then enough to kill a black bear under 300 lbs. If you live where 500lb bears are common then maybe you should consider a premium bullet.

[Lefty SRH]

150s all the way and good luck!

[xd4584]

There are supposedly 3 in the area that are 500lbs or better but the majority are 150 to 300. I really don't want to shoot a 500 lber! I have no clue how two of us would get it out of there! We do have a friend up there that is a local and he's been keeping an eye on the bears for us

[alrighty]

Well it looks like I'm gonna go with the grand slams. I've never shot anything but 130's out of my 270 so maybe I should just stick with them and trade the higher grain stuff for something else I need.

Thanks guys!

I think you have made a wise choice, I had rather use a lighter better constructed bullet than another just because it is heavier.You have already been shooting the 130 grainers and you expect a shot less than 100 yards.Sounds like you already have a good load worked up for it so seems like a no brainer for me.Congratulations on the trip and Good luck.

[fatnhappy]

One of the nice things about the .270 that's rarely mentioned:

Every single .270 bullet is designed and constructed to operate within it's velocity window. That's the side benefit of being the only game in town for 75 years or so.

Compare that to .30 cal bullets. they're expected to expand and hold together in the .300 savage and .300 win mag. That's quite a difference.

All the hot air not withstanding, bears don't fare well if you punch them in the chest. that being said, I'd probably go with a tougher bullet than the ballistic tips. I'd load the grand slams and never think twice.

Deer and bear seasons run concurrently in NY. I don't feel under gunned with 139 grain hornady interlocks in my 7-08s if that says anything.

[725]

You don't have a bad choice listed. They will all work just fine. Black bear isn't too hard to kill. If it works on whitetail, it will work on bear. In the long view, it's all about shot placement, anyway.

[shotman]

dont matter what you use. SHOT placement does

[fouronesix]

One of the nice things about the .270 that's rarely mentioned:

Every single .270 bullet is designed and constructed to operate within it's velocity window. That's the side benefit of being the only game in town for 75 years or so.



Nope. Have to disagree. I've seen too many conventional cup core bullets come apart on game if the impact velocity is too high or heavy tissue/bone is hit- no matter the caliber. And nope, a large black bear is a different critter from any whitetail. Will a hollow point, thin jacketed target bullet kill stuff? Of course. Is there a chance it will make a real mess or completely fail if penetration is needed? Yes.

The example in the OP is the Nosler BT. They tend to be a very accurate bullet but they are simply a remake of the old Nosler Solid Base. They are a conventional cup core. After hitting heavy tissue and/or bone at the higher impact velocities they can and tend to come apart and it is fairly common for long, large shards of jacket and core to take nearly 90 degree turns along the wound channel.

And nope not just hot air and more internet gleaned wisdom here. All from years of experience with this stuff. 2 cents and outa this thread,

[Elkins45]

I would go with the Grand Slams just because they are less likely to blow apart if you should happen upon a very close shot.

[Idaho Mule]

xd, your gun is sighted, and happy with the 130's. They will all be very close to one another as far as impact. The Speer GS should be a very good bullet and should do the job, that would be my first choice of the list. If the Sierra spitzer is labeled as a Game King, it will work very well too. Take good care of the meat and the hide, bear steak is good with a fat fall bear, and you could get a good rug too. JW

[xd4584]

Idaho mule,
I talked with my butcher.. Well the guy that makes my sausage and balogna... He told me to get the bear skinned and get the fat off ASAP. I've heard so many good and bad things about bear meat it's not even funny. I will eat anything though. And... I talked to another buddy that does taxidermy.. Best friend discount gets me a rug at 250-275 per running foot. I want to get a bear but at that price I'm scared to pull the trigger. Three kids with a stay at home mom. Ill need a second job just to pay for a rug!

I'm gonna end up cutting the bear up myself. But the problem is pa requires you to bring the WHOLE bear to a check station. So some of the meat is going to get fat contaminated. I'm counting my chickens... Ill worry about the meat when I kill one.

I really appreciate all of your opinions

[725]

Cool it as fast as you can. Gut it, open it up to vent and pack the body cavity with bags of ice as fast as possible. It can get funky if not processed quickly.

[waksupi]

Do some shopping on your guy doing the hide. I fleshed the hide, turned ears, eyes, nose and lips, patched a couple holes, and got mine done for $150, since I had did all the prep work.

That guy ain't a buddy, he has you bent over.

[Lloyd Smale]

Yup id say 250 a foot for a bear rug in outrageous!!

[nanuk]

not ALL bullets are designed to work within their velocity windows

I used a Remington 130gr SP to shoot three deer in a pasture. nothing closer than 200yds, nothing further than about 250yds.

EVERY bullet exploded and destroyed the off front shoulder with shrapnel. I can't imagine the disaster if I had been within 50ft or so...

personally I think a bullet should remain one piece.

[xd4584]

I will try to do some of the work if I get one. Around here thats actually a good price. The only other taxidermist in the area that I would consider charges a good deal more. This guy is doing a shoulder mount white tail for me for $300. I already had a form but he is supplying me with a cape because I did not save the one from the deer.

We'll see how much time I have to work on the hide. I can do the fleshing and the prep work, then he'll just have to send it out to be tanned and do the head insert.

[Four Fingers of Death]

If you can't afford $50 premium bullets like you said, taxidermy is really gonna blow the budget.

[Lloyd Smale]

why are you shooting them in the shoulder and ruining meat!! I shoot alot of deer every year and have found that bullet placement has a hell of alot more to do with damaged meat then bullet construction. Hit a deer in the shoulder with any bullet be it a bt or a barnes tsx and your going to ruin that shoulder and probably the off side shoulder too. Hit them behind the shoulder and all youll loose is ribs. In may cases ive seen premium bullets actually do more meat damage then cup and core bullets due to the fact they pentrate more and will ruin both sides instead of just one side. bottom line though is dont shoot them in the eating parts. Like i said i shoot many deer. Usually over 50 a year and shoot them with everything from a handgun to a 250 sav to a 8mag and 7stw and ive seen the 250 tear up more meat then the 7stw using ballistic tips. Shot placement is the key to this. As to the original posters question. Im here to tell you that if you have even a 400 lb bear come in and you shoot it with a cup and core 130 grain 270 and you fail to recover that bear its surely not the bullets fault its YOURS!! Ive seen many many bears and some of the biggest bears that ive seen shot shot with 3030s using corelock bullets and ive yet to see where one got away that was hit right. I kind of chuckle when i hear guys say they lost deer due to poor bullet construction. If you lost the deer how the heck do you know your bullet didnt perform right. All it is is a poor excuse for a poor shot. Im not saying that bullets never blow up and fail to penetrate but its rare. Even a premium bullet can fail. Ive done some of my longest tracking work beause of barnes tsx bullets failing to open up. You couldnt give me another one! at least not for deer hunting. Ive shot 100s of deer with cup and core bullets and i think that if they were inferior i would have picked up on something by now. IF anything ive found they ARE THE PREMIUM bullet when it comes to whitetail hunting. they ONLY thing those high tech wiz bang bullets do better is empty your wallet!!
not ALL bullets are designed to work within their velocity windows

I used a Remington 130gr SP to shoot three deer in a pasture. nothing closer than 200yds, nothing further than about 250yds.

EVERY bullet exploded and destroyed the off front shoulder with shrapnel. I can't imagine the disaster if I had been within 50ft or so...

personally I think a bullet should remain one piece.

[fatnhappy]

I'm with Lloyd all day long. What are cup and draw bullet designed to do? Expand all day long. I personally detest the ballistic tips, and they are absolutely far more expansive than the old nosler solid base. If expansion is what you want, that's what they're design to do, hence the recommendation to use the grand slam, a substantially tougher bullet rather than a heavier ballistic tip.

I used the .270 for year, traded it for a 6.5 x 55, which I then traded for a 7-08. Then I got smart (better paid too) and started buying them rather than trading them off.
They all work if you manage to stick the bullet in the boiler room.

[o6Patient]

I'd go with the 140's, they're not hard to kill. Your regular 130's will do the trick. Like anything else:
boolit placement , boolit placement. (belatedly; good luck

[Houndog]

DANG!!!!
I must be REALLY doing something wrong! I've killed 6 Black Bears in the last 40 or so years, and ALL of them were killed with a 6MM Remington and 100 GR Sierra flat base conventional bullets! Black Bears (150-250LBS) aren't any harder to kill than a large Whitetail in my opinion. I wouldn't worry any at all using your .270 and 130GR. conventional bullets. Jack O'Conner and many others successfully harvested countless head of game larger and tougher than Black Bears with the 270 and conventional bullets LONG before the "oh my golly-whiz bang bullets were ever thought of. Having said that, I wouldn't use Balistic Tips on ANYTHING I didn't want destroyed! They are just too explosive for my tastes. As another poster said, the three most important things to harvesting ANY game is SHOT PLACEMENT, SHOT PLACEMENT, SHOT PLACEMENT!!!!! Worry about that and the rest will take care of itself!

[Four Fingers of Death]

Yep! We didn't know there was anything wrong with those plain ol' Sierra Game Kings, Winchesters Power Points and Remington CoreLokts until we were put right a few years ago.

Ballistic Tips are pretty popular here and if you want to vaporise crow or a kangaroo or small deer's head, they are just the ticket but they are a bit explosive for my liking.

They are normally very accurate and don't deform in the magazine, but I tend to operate on the premise that nice as they are at zapping/vaporising rabbits, crows and other small or medium game, I live in hope of running into a deer, so I generally leave them alone and load GameKings or CorLokts. If in Sambar (Elk sized tough buggers) country, I load Woodleighs and usually in a bigger rifle like the 338WM.

[Idaho Mule]

xd, sorry I have not checked this thread for a while, did you get your bear?? If so what bullet did you use? and other details of the hunt. I sure hope you got one. JW