No CCW bank policy? [Archive]

Jim

11-01-2012, 11:34 AM

RKJ put up this news story (http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/president-of-troy-mo-bank-pulls-gun-nabs-masked-robber/article_570b4e0b-d461-5e17-8a72-cd4baebc1539.html)about a bank manager that foiled a robbery attempt using a handgun. That got me to thinkin'. If your bank instituted a 'no CCW' policy, would you change banks?

Janet and I have accounts with two banks, one a large nation wide firm that has no branch in Floyd and the other, a small local bank. Recently, we saw a new sign on the door of the local bank. Icons showing no ballcaps, sun glasses, hoods or firearms allowed.

I've already heard talk around town about the new prohibition of concealed handguns. And every good ol' boy around here wears a ball cap. They're not makin' any friends with this decision.

What say the jury? Court is now in session.

garym1a2

11-01-2012, 12:09 PM

would it be a crime to goto your bank with your CCW or just against their rules ?

Moonie

11-01-2012, 12:16 PM

would it be a crime to goto your bank with your CCW or just against their rules ?

That would depend on the state. In some states you would have to be asked to leave or you would be trespassing. In other states the signs have the weight of law.

In NC they would have to ask you to leave.

GREENCOUNTYPETE

11-01-2012, 12:17 PM

yes , right after i explained to the bank manager why i was leaving his bank for his competition.

I don't frequent any stores that don't respect me as their customer.

Jim

11-01-2012, 12:35 PM

Virginia businesses have the law behind them. The statutes clearly state you shall not carry a concealed handgun into a business that has a no concealed handguns sign on the door. There is a misdemeanor charge for violating this law.

shooterg

11-01-2012, 12:41 PM

The posting against concealed carry is 'sposed to be prominently displayed . I'm just sayin' - old guys with glasses like me - I've never seen one(and certainly will never admit to seeing one !)
Lowe's is one outfit that changed their policy - apparently a lot of contractors carry !

GREENCOUNTYPETE

11-01-2012, 02:59 PM

very few national chains prohibit carry of legal licensed concealed carry , they know who has the money

Houndog

11-01-2012, 03:04 PM

If my local bank posted such nonsense on the front door, I'd calmly walk up to the manager and ask him or her to close ALL my accounts while being SURE to explain the reasons why I was taking my business elsewere. The bank I do business with ENCOURIGES concealed carry and has NEVER been robbed! Maybee there's something to armed citizens detering crime??????

Jim

11-01-2012, 04:41 PM

I wrote the following to the editor of the Floyd Press and requested it be published in the 'Letters to the Editor' section.

NO CONCEALED HANDGUNS

I recently visited a bank in Floyd that I have an account with to transact some business. I saw a new sign on the door inside the foyer that prohibits the wearing of ball caps, sun glasses and hoods and prohibits the carrying of concealed handguns.

I understand the logic behind this decision, but the logic is flawed. It's not law abiding citizens that are legally licensed to carry handguns the bank has to fear. Rather, it is those that have no respect for the law and would attempt a robbery the business should be concerned about. A would be robber would not regard such a sign anyway.

Denying a man the right to wear a ball cap is like denying a lady the right to wear jewelry. It is part of most men's every day dress. And to deny a patron to enter the building with sun glasses is rediculous. Not only is this extremely inconvenient in that the customer must return to his or her vehicle to remove such as hats and glasses, Many people need sun glasses to protect them from bright light.

Like many people in this county, I am legally licensed to carry a concealed handgun. When you take that priveledge away from me, you put me at risk of being assaulted and/or robbed with no way to defend myself. A folding lock blade knife, in the hands of a trained person, can be used in self defense or assault. Are you going to deny me the right to carry my knife also? A walking cane can be used as a bludgeon. Shall we add that to the list of denied items?

If you are afraid of being robbed, train your employees how to respond to such. But don't deny good, law abiding citizens the right to carry a concealed handgun in your place of business. There are those of us that would be willing to risk our lives in protecting you. We can't protect ourselves, let alone you and your employees, without our sidearms.

Jim Connor
Floyd, VA

Blammer

11-01-2012, 04:54 PM

That would depend on the state. In some states you would have to be asked to leave or you would be trespassing. In other states the signs have the weight of law.

In NC they would have to ask you to leave.

In NC the sign has the wt of the law. If it's posted you cannot carry in that establishment.

NC CCH Law has recently changed. Before you could not carry in a bank, just like you could not carry in a federal building. NOW you can carry concealed in a bank as long as it does not have the sign that say's you may not.

nicholst55

11-01-2012, 04:57 PM

Jim, you're making a serious mistake; you're using logic! :kidding:

These decisions are based on emotion, not logic, so your arguments will fall on deaf ears. Vote with your money; it's all that they understand.

ETA: is open carry legal in VA? Walk in with your handgun prominently and openly displayed. If anything is said, explain that since they banned concealed carry that you only have two remaining options - open carry, or closing your account(s) and moving to a different bank.

Jim Flinchbaugh

11-01-2012, 05:47 PM

firefly1957

11-01-2012, 05:51 PM

I would talk to the manager and ask whether the sign or your business is more important to them stating that your safety has president over the false beliefs they hold. Being a federally licensed establishment it would seem the denial of your rights should be an issue but law enforcement picks and chooses which laws they enforce. Just in case that is confusing what they are doing is no different then telling customers that they must be white or catholic civil rights are all our rights including the second amendment.

Wayne Smith

11-01-2012, 05:52 PM

Open carry is legal in Virginia! Strap on that hogleg.

Jim

11-01-2012, 05:59 PM

..... Walk in with your handgun prominently and openly displayed. If anything is said, explain that since they banned concealed carry that you only have two remaining options - open carry, or closing your account(s) and moving to a different bank.

This is not about open carry vs. concealed carry, it's about carrying under any circumstances.

I don't open carry for a number of reasons. One being it's nobody's business and another being I don't want to be targeted first.

I've been in Floyd amost four years and in all that time, I've seen ONE man open carrying. Apparently, everybody thinks like I do.

oneokie

11-01-2012, 07:03 PM

Does VA law specify how the signage is to be worded? In Texas, if the state mandated signage is not posted, one can carry concealed.

blademasterii

11-01-2012, 07:26 PM

There is often also a specific font ,sign size and color requirement to make it legal. Should the banks sign not follow those specifications, carry anyhow. If it does then a private meeting with the bank president is definitely in order. They should be expressly aware that the sign is the reason you are closing your business there. It should also be noted that you will do your best to make other people aware of their anti gun policies and will tell people about the bank you switched to that is more responsible citizen friendly.

Jim

11-01-2012, 07:41 PM

From the Va Legislative Information System-

18.2-308.O- The granting of a concealed handgun permit shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property.

Nothing further is stipulated.

Roundnoser

11-01-2012, 07:58 PM

Money talks, balogna walks! I would find a CCW carry-friendly bank and transfer my money to that new account. Like Houndog said, I would kindly walk up to the manager and close all of my accounts...making sure he knew WHY I was leaving, and that I was taking my money across the street to his competitor.

I would also tell him that I would be encouraging everyone I know (friends, family, co-works, sportsmans club members, etc), NOT to do any business with his bank because of the policy.

If it is a local bank, you will have leverage. Small banks can't afford to have too many customers leave...or to lose too many loans, etc.

Shiloh

11-01-2012, 09:42 PM

That would depend on the state. In some states you would have to be asked to leave or you would be trespassing. In other states the signs have the weight of law.

In NC they would have to ask you to leave.

Thanks for answering this. I was under the impression that the NO GUNS ALLOWED
was a suggestion and were just legal weasel words. They needed to ask you to leave.
Thanks for clearing that up.

Shiloh

dragonrider

11-01-2012, 11:10 PM

JMHO Jim but your reasoning about ball caps and sunglasses is wrong. When you walk into your bank you are on camera. Being able to identity who is walking through the door is important to them. I have been with the same local bank for 45+ years, I know the people I deal with there. They live in my town, we share the same values. Should they institute such a policy now I would not change. Also at my credit union, who I have been with for 30+ years, the door is always locked and you don't get in without removing hat and sunglasses and someone identifies you first. Do I have a problem with that, no I don't. A worst it is a "MINOR" inconvenience. As far as the CCW part, it still would not affect me because they don't know, and unless the situation called for it they will never know.

fecmech

11-02-2012, 11:24 AM

Jim

11-02-2012, 11:52 AM

To me it's a non issue. The only time that anyone would know that I'm armed is if I am in fear of my life and have to use my weapon. At that time the least of my worries are someones business rules. If that situation arises and I should survive the encounter I'll deal with it then.

Well, there is that, most certainly. Kinda' like worryin' about a speeding ticket if you're tryin' to get a dying family member to the ER, huh?

By the way, I got a call from the editor this morning. They have a policy of calling the writer of letters to the editor to confirm.

She offered a couple of changes which I thought were wise and told her to proceed. She also thanked me for the letter as she was not aware of this situation and thought it would be appreciated by the community.

Moonie

11-02-2012, 11:53 AM

In NC the sign has the wt of the law. If it's posted you cannot carry in that establishment.

NC CCH Law has recently changed. Before you could not carry in a bank, just like you could not carry in a federal building. NOW you can carry concealed in a bank as long as it does not have the sign that say's you may not.

Please note that the section of the law regarding this is listed under concealed carry and is stated thus:

(8) On any private premises where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises.

So, if the sign says very specifically that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited, then you may not carry a concealed handgun. So the sign may have the weight of law if 2 things are met, 1 the sign says no carrying a concealed handgun and 2 you are in fact carrying a concealed handgun.

km101

11-02-2012, 12:58 PM

Change banks! They have already decided on their policy and probably wont change it. If they are opposed to CCW it is probably because of ignorance, or apathy and the mgr. will not appreciate having either brought to his attention most likely. Find a bank that shows common sense.

firefly1957

11-02-2012, 05:23 PM

It is not just about the bank and it's beliefs/policies it is also about your safety you are going in and/or out of that bank with money a criminal wants and now he knows the law abiding are disarmed. This is what is called a safe working area for criminals and if you are robbed outside the bank it is not a federal crime another plus for the bad guy.

Freightman

11-02-2012, 06:19 PM

DCM

11-02-2012, 11:44 PM

I doubt they are the only bank in your town.

If they get away with it others may join their ranks to create more "pre-plowed" killing fields.

I noticed the Aldi stores here have changed their policy from no personal protection to no signage. My bet is lots of complaints and lost patronage contributed to that.

firefly1957

11-04-2012, 07:24 PM

You might contact your state lawmakers and see if they could pass a law making property owners that post that "no legal Guns are allowed" financially responsible for all crime happening on the property.

Firebricker

11-04-2012, 07:43 PM

Jim, That's a well written letter IMO nice to see someone take the time to write it. FB

rtracy2001

11-04-2012, 09:07 PM

Montana CCW license says:
Shall not carry in any local, state or federal building, banks and any establishment that servers alcohol.
My bank has firearms hanging on on every single wall of the place, WTH?

I was briefed on the same here in Idaho. They also added specifically "within 100 yards of school property (public or private)". Hope I never get pulled over in a school zone.

I remember always having a shotgun in my truck as school, and I fired a handgun in my speech class (cap & ball revolver with cap only).