Rifle/Pistol Interchageability

[northmn]

This issue keeps coming up as an advantage in buying pistol caliber rifles. First I am not knocking the concept so much as PERSONALLY I cannot think of many uses for it.
My uses for a pistol and rifle tend to differ. Were I to get a combo it would be a 357, again for my uses. However the rounds likely would not be truly interchangeable as I would likely carry 357's in the rifle and hardcast 38's in the pistol. Most often I carry a rifle, like my 32-20 for coyotes on the tractor and may carry a 22 pistol. Also some load a 45 Colt rifle up to very intersting standards for a pistol. My Colt replica would not take them.
Biggest advantage I can see for the consept is on the handlaoding bench as I would not have to spen time loading for both.
Interesting concept based on personal uses which some might share.

DP

[waksupi]

I tried the route, still have to make two different loads to get the best out of both firearms.

[Blammer]

I just can't seem to find a revolver that is chambered for 30-06...

so I have a rifle and a pistol, different calibers.

but seriously, I have a 44mag rifle and a 44mag pistol I lucked up and found one load that works well in both.

[runfiverun]

there's always the see through scope mount method.
open sights to the cast load,and the scope to the higher powered load.
that way you have a 32-20 revolver ballistics rifle and the 30-30 powered rifle all in two different rounds.
leverguns are pretty easily manipulated this way too.
slide a few in the tube and if you need a lower powered round you slide it in the tube and rack it into the chamber.
if you need the higher powered round you just work the lever.

[Salmoneye]

but seriously, I have a 44mag rifle and a 44mag pistol I lucked up and found one load that works well in both.

Same here...

[fouronesix]

This issue keeps coming up as an advantage in buying pistol caliber rifles. First I am not knocking the concept so much as PERSONALLY I cannot think of many uses for it.
My uses for a pistol and rifle tend to differ. Were I to get a combo it would be a 357, again for my uses. However the rounds likely would not be truly interchangeable as I would likely carry 357's in the rifle and hardcast 38's in the pistol. Most often I carry a rifle, like my 32-20 for coyotes on the tractor and may carry a 22 pistol. Also some load a 45 Colt rifle up to very intersting standards for a pistol. My Colt replica would not take them.
Biggest advantage I can see for the consept is on the handlaoding bench as I would not have to spen time loading for both.
Interesting concept based on personal uses which some might share.

DP

Agreed. And, I think it depends on the firearms. The original concept was very good. One blackpowder load for both the carbine and handgun, especially when there was NO money and NO abundance of components and the generally poor ballistics knowledge among the user population. But, back then (and probably even today) some couldn't read the warnings on the ammo boxes for the new high pressure smokeless loads designed for the stronger Winchester 92s, so a few BP Colts were blown up with the higher pressure loads.

Right now I don't mix the two. Example for the 44-40s: one 50 rnd range/reload box says "44-40 Carbine/Rifle" and the other says "44-40 Handgun". Two reasons I separate them-1) I use slightly different loads in each and 2) to completely avoid the potential of firing a hot carbine/rifle load in a 1st generation Colt. I really cringe when I think about some of the super hot 45LC loads out there. OK for modern carbines but there is no doubt firing a single round would disassemble a BP Colt!

[smkummer]

Most are doing well to shoot a good enough for hunting group out to 40-50 yards with a revolver. That same round in a rifle allows them to shoot out to 125 yards pretty easy. With 240 grain jacketed bullets in my Ruger Super Blackhawk and 1970's vintage 1894 Marlin its easy to find a bullet that works for both. I am still working on a cast load for both though. I don't believe that it is all that important in modern times to have both a handgun and rifle in the same round.

[felix]

The advantage is that old/sick age always comes to those who can wait long enough in time. Rifles still can be shot off hand with reasonable accuracy, but no such luck with pisolas. One set of loading dies for the caliber is the advantage, plus the ability to remember loads without referencing the misplaced note book. ... felix

[webradbury]

I have been using the same 45 lc loads for both my Ruger old model Vaquero and my Win '94 carbine. My problem is my load for the ruger works good but is kinda whimpy and slow in the rifle. Started playing around yesterday and tried a load that really makes the rifle come alive. This same load is suppose to be safe in my ruger but I have never pushed the envelope with the Vaquero. So to answer your question, I am now loading for two guns two different loads. Again, if I lived on the edge it would probably be one load.

[btroj]

I get by with one load for both. Works in 357 and 45 Colt. May not be the highest velocity or best accuracy but I don't ind a compromise. My needs aren't they extreme so I don't have a problem giving up some velocity or accuracy.

It depends on what you are demanding of each platform.

[smoked turkey]

I am working on this situation right now. That is, I am working up a 6.1 gr Herco load with a NOE 36-180 FN GC boolit with load info from the handgun section of the manual. This load is also going to be used in a 357 Mag rifle. In that way if I am fortunate enough that both loads shoot satisfactory with both rifle and revolver I am good to go. I plan on using this load for deer hunting this year. So far the load seems to be working in both. We'll soon know. I think what many have commented here is that a single load for both revolver and rifle will be a compromise between the two and that is ok if it works to the satisfaction of the user.

[fecmech]

I must be lucky as generally anything that shoots good in my handguns shoots good in my lever guns. Using 358429 with max loads of 296, 820 or 2400 gives me roughly 1200-1300 fps and groups in the slightly less than 2"to 3" range at 50 yds out of my Ruger GP and 3" to 4" 100 yd groups out of my 3 lever guns in the 1600 fps range. Using the Lee TLSWC and Unique or BE at approx 900 fps out of both the Ruger and S&W K frame again roughly 2" 50 yd groups and 3-4 moa out of the rifles at 100. Same holds true with the Lee or RCBS TC 9MM bullet of 125 grs. I can't think of an accurate handgun load that was not accurate in my rifles.

[357shooter]

In 357 I found that great lever loads are great revolver loads too. The Rossi has a slow twist so heavy bullets have to be pushed in it. That's the only difference, light loads with 168 Keith's don't translate to the rifle, with a 30 inch twist. All the rifle loads do well in 6 inch revolvers.

It's easy to find a load that's excellent in both. The concept has worked for me.

[JHeath]

I think the appeal of handgun/carbine pairs is in reaching the accuracy and range potential of modest cartridges. If you work up a load for a .32-20 revolver that works well out to 50+ yards, you've got a good load but are ultimately limited by the weapon. It seems wasteful to leave that potential untapped. The same round will shoot even better out of a rifle and be good for 150 or 200 yards. There's a thread elsewhere on this site about long-range .30-30 shooting. Why bother when you can buy a .300 H&H? Because once you get interested in making the .30-30 accurate, you want to see how far it will shoot.

[williamwaco]

I would say that for your use it is not a useful combination.

For myself, I find it a lot of fun.

.

[I'll Make Mine]

Even though I haven't owned a .357 Magnum carbine in most of thirty years, my first choice revolver load in that chambering is one I found when working up a load for the Marlin I owned then -- H110 makes a big ol' muzzle flash, but it's slow enough to see significant gain in the longer barrel, and shot well in the carbine (still shoots well in my Dan Wesson).

[Chill Wills]

This issue keeps coming up as an advantage in buying pistol caliber rifles. First I am not knocking the concept so much as PERSONALLY I cannot think of many uses for it. DP


waksupi I tried the route, still have to make two different loads to get the best out of both firearms.

Back in the day, when Black Powder ruled the world, I think it made more sense. Especially with a third firearm, a big singleshot somewhere handy.
In these times, even for those of us that are close to wild places every day....not so much. BUT, they are fun!

[starmac]

It would be interesting to know what percentage of the old timers had rifles and pistols in matching calibers back in the day.

[northmn]

Back in the day, as they say it owuld make some sense to have a 44-40 revolver as there could be some confusion possibly in grabbing the wrong ammo if one had a 45 revolver for instance. The 2 cartridges are enough alike for that to possibly occur. There were some growing pains when the 44-40 was adapted to a revolver with the tapered case. My closest Western combination is a Marlin CB in 38-55 and my Colt replica 45 So there is no mixup. Also could see it for one owning a 44 mag rifle. It is kind of handy at times to have a pistol in a tree stand for a deer that may come in on the awkward side for a rifle, at least in theory. 22 is not all bad for small game when waking away from the deer stand also. 38 specials also work good on small stuff.

DP

[gundownunder]

I use a 357 rifle and revolver and can use my ammo interchangeably.
My cowboy lever action silhouette pistol caliber loads use a 175gr bullet and Trailboss and are fun, easy shooting loads in the revolver. My cowboy silhouette rifle loads are the same 175gr bullet driven with a heaping helping of 2400, 2205, or similar and they are a real handful in the revolver and would be rated as Ruger only revolver loads. Even out of the revolver those CLAS loads will smack down the 200 meter steel rams if you hit them right.

These days we don't have to carry everything we own in a bedroll and a saddle bag so it is not really necessary to have interchangeable ammo, but you never know when things may change.

[fcvan]

Define old timer. Back in the 70s, dad bought a Ruger BlackHawk in 30 Carbine to go with an M1 Carbine grandad gave him. In the 80s, I bought a Marlin 1894 in .41 to go with my S&W M 57. I mostly shot loads with Unique which did well in the 8 3/8" pistol and very well in the 20" rifle. Blue dot loads really did well in both. I never tried 4227, 296, or 2400 in .41 but afte reading some posts here I sure want to.

In the 90s, I bought a Marlin Camp Carbine in 9mm that takes magazines for S&W M59 series pistols. At the time, I didn't have a 9mm pistol but I did have a 1911. I was originally looking for a Marlin Camp in .45 ACP but it sold out from under me. When a 9mm showed up I snagged it. I guess I need to pick up a S&W to match up with the Marlin.

Last year, I bought an H&R 1871 Classic Carbine in .45 Colt. Last spring, I picked up a Vaquero in .45 Colt. I have tried warmer loads using Unique and 4227, and have launched 200, 230, 260, and 300 grain boolits loaded from mild to wild. The next thing I want to try is some black powder loads because from what I've read this cartridge is no slouch with BP.

I'd like another barrel for the Classic Carbine. They don't make an iron sight barrel for .357 or .44 but I suppose I could have iron sights mounted on the barrel. I have a Vaquero in 38-40 and that would be sweet. Too bad they don't do custom barrels for the H&R 1871. A guy can dream though. Frank

[357Mag]

North-

Howdy !

14.5gr WW296 ( H110 same stuff ) and SP Mag primer under various Lyman SWCs of 158-172gr all worked fine in S & W 4, 5, & 6" "N"-frames......
and also in my 1894SC.

Shot all no gas check.

After having trouble putting a large pit bull down @ too close a distance
w/ a 4" 6-shot " N "-frame .357Mag; I went out and $$$ the 1894.

Not so much for possible additional power. More for the additional rnds.
DK if that logic helps, any ?!

.........Maybe..... a 5" 8-shot "N"-frame .357Mag . Hmmm....


Regards,
357Mag

[starmac]

If 6 shots with a 357 mag don't kill it at close range. HIDE. lol

[Lonegun1894]

If 6 shots with a 357 mag don't kill it at close range. HIDE. lol


And PRAY!

[bobthenailer]

I only have only a Marlin 357 mag rifle with ballard rifleing but i do have several 357 mag handguns and in most instances what shoots in one , shoots well in all, this has proven to be true for me atleast in over 10, 357 mag handguns . most of my loads will group around 1 inch at 25 yards from the bench with a scope or red dot sight and some will do that at 50 yards.

Im really a pistol junkie and rarely shoot rifles , but i really enjoy shooting this marlin , i have a aimpoint red dot for sighting ,cant see irons any more , and usually only shoot off hand ,
In 9 years that ive owned this rifle ive shot more total rounds through this rifle than all of my other centerfire rifles ive owned combined in my 47 years of shooting.

[jmort]

If you get a Ruger Blackhawk and a lever action, you for sure can have the same load for each. Many like the idea of a single boolit load for rile/handgun, I do.

[fecmech]

In 9 years that ive owned this rifle ive shot more total rounds through this rifle than all of my other centerfire rifles ive owned combined in my 47 years of shooting.

That's the nice thing about the pistol caliber lever guns, they are fun to shoot. If you are casting and own a .357 lever you can shoot for the same cost as buying .22's. You don't need GC's, you can load with carbide dies( no case lube) on progressive presses and do a whole lot of shooting with minimal cost and effort. I bought my first .357 lever about 5 years ago and now own 3. I have not kept real close track but conservatively I've put over 15K through the 3 guns.

[northmn]

It would be interesting to know what percentage of the old timers had rifles and pistols in matching calibers back in the day.

Always wondered that myself. Colt made cap and ball revolvers into the cartridge era and muzzleloading rifles were built into the 1870's. For target shooting beyond that. Contrary to many perceptions, many of the single shots like the Remington Rolling Block were not all made in large calibers but had many modest loadings. Not all pistols were Colts nor all rifles Winchesters. Winchester came out with the model 76 and 86 to compete against the Single shots and those cartridges were not interchangeable. Still the 73 was a very popular rifle that lasted into the early 20 century. The 92 was made in "pistol" rounds but the 25-20 was very rare in pistols and the 218 probably for practical purposes non-existant.
I think the concept is more popular today than it was back then.

DP

[jp99]

I like my 1892 in .357 magnum, very accurate with light or heavy loads. Puts out some impressive velocity and power with the heavy loads. I have no problem shooting the heavy loads for the 1892 out of either of my 686s in fact I rather like them out of my 8" and they shoot fine out of the 4". The typical lighter load for my 4" 686 also shoots rather fine out of the 1892 and 8" 686 just limits the range a little bit. Plan on using all 3 on deer at some point in my life, the 1892 will be carried all year next year, and either the 4" 686 or my .41 mag will be on the hip.

Regards,

JP99

[357shooter]

I like my 1892 in .357 magnum, very accurate with light or heavy loads. Puts out some impressive velocity and power with the heavy loads. I have no problem shooting the heavy loads for the 1892 out of either of my 686s in fact I rather like them out of my 8" and they shoot fine out of the 4". The typical lighter load for my 4" 686 also shoots rather fine out of the 1892 and 8" 686 just limits the range a little bit. Plan on using all 3 on deer at some point in my life, the 1892 will be carried all year next year, and either the 4" 686 or my .41 mag will be on the hip.

Regards,

JP99What twist rate is your lever action? The Rossi is 30, the old Puma's were 16, other makes vary from there. The heavy bullets aren't a problem with the 30inch twist. Just not as accurate. At least in my gun.

[jp99]

What twist rate is your lever action? The Rossi is 30, the old Puma's were 16, other makes vary from there. The heavy bullets aren't a problem with the 30inch twist. Just not as accurate. At least in my gun.

According to Winchester's website it is 1 in 26, I don't have any problems with 180 gr. jacketed bullets shooting rather nice, the 158s still seem to do a little better however.

Here is a picture of it next to my Sharps along with my gewr 88 in the corner.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/291967_4151192951484_1444178100_n.jpg

Regards,

JP99

[fecmech]

The Rossi is 30, the old Puma's were 16,

There must be some different Puma's out there. A fellow showed me one (With the Puma medal in the receiver) he just bought used and it's a 30" twist.

[Artful]

Hmm - lets see

22LR in rifle and pistol - check

.223 in rifle and contender - check

30 Carbine in M1 and Contender - check

9mm in pistol and carbine - check

.357 mag in revolver and lever - check

.375 BigBore in Rifle and contender - check

.44 mag in revolver and lever - check

.45 ACP in Pistol and Cabine - check

.45-70 in Rifle and Contender - check

I guess I missed some combo's

- at one time I had .30-30 in Lever and contender

It does come in handy at times to only have to carry one type of ammo.

[357shooter]

There must be some different Puma's out there. A fellow showed me one (With the Puma medal in the receiver) he just bought used and it's a 30" twist.

I think that's true, though I read it in an Internet aricle. Apparently Puma's have been made by a few different manufacturers.

I believe Marlin has a 1 in 16 twist in their 357's as well.

[geargnasher]

My personal guideline for such combinations has been find a load that shoots best in the rifle, and it will most likely shoot at least halfway decent in the pistol if it's design is compatible with the pressure. In such a combo, the pistol is for backup anyway, so top-notch accuracy isn't a priority.

Gear

[tomingreeneco]

Even though I haven't owned a .357 Magnum carbine in most of thirty years, my first choice revolver load in that chambering is one I found when working up a load for the Marlin I owned then -- H110 makes a big ol' muzzle flash, but it's slow enough to see significant gain in the longer barrel, and shot well in the carbine (still shoots well in my Dan Wesson).

Agree. I use H110 in both my revolver and lever in CSA shooting. Works well in both (use Magnum primer for H110).

[dunkel]

If you get a Ruger Blackhawk and a lever action, you for sure can have the same load for each. Many like the idea of a single boolit load for rile/handgun, I do.

That's what I have...probably common combination, Ruger Blackhawk 6.5" with Rossi 92 16". I've only started to scratch the surface with trying out different loads, but I haven't yet found anything that shoots good out of the 92 that's uncomfortable to shoot out of the Blackhawk. I do plan on loading up some really heavy loads to be used to hunt in rifle only, but for plinking cans or something smaller than pig or deer, I would like something that works equally well in both.

As for the appeal...I don't know that I could really come up with a practical reason for getting it...it was a pure fun purchase I made for myself as a reward for making it he from Iraq in one piece. It's just always been something I thought was a cool idea.

[Jeff82]

I'm a big fan of one cartridge for both pistol and rife. That's all I shoot. I tune a 357 cartridge for my Marlin lever action and use the same cartridge for my Ruger Blackhawk.

Even if I want to load different cartridges for each gun, it still flows through the casting and reloading process very efficiently.

[Baja_Traveler]

158 grain snakebite greasewagon boolit over 25 grains 3f black works great in the .357 vaquero, and even better in the rossi 92!

It's my go-to load for Lever action silhouette pistol caliber, and alot of fun to boot!!

[tacklebury]

.45 Colt works perfectly for me as a share platform. ;)

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-tihVdGSYyLY/Ts7YLE5yeMI/AAAAAAAAAow/UautlR4sQP4/s800/H%2526R_45LC_Classic_Carbine_%2526_Ruger_NMB_45LC-45ACP.JPG

[FromTheWoods]

Original Winchester '73 .38WCF and Ruger Buckeye .38-40/10mm.
--One reloading session for both weapons.
--Feels good to have only one type of cartridge in a belt/pocket that will fit both guns I'm carrying.
--I like the idea of two guns and one load.
--Most importantly, I can hunt with my Great-Grandfather's rifle loaded for deer while carrying my Ruger on my hip for everyday balance!

[Iron Mike Golf]

Hmm - lets see

22LR in rifle and pistol - check

.223 in rifle and contender - check

30 Carbine in M1 and Contender - check

9mm in pistol and carbine - check

.357 mag in revolver and lever - check

.375 BigBore in Rifle and contender - check

.44 mag in revolver and lever - check

.45 ACP in Pistol and Cabine - check

.45-70 in Rifle and Contender - check

I guess I missed some combo's

- at one time I had .30-30 in Lever and contender

It does come in handy at times to only have to carry one type of ammo.

Gotta find yourself a Blackhawk in 30 Carbine

[superior]

11 grains of hs-6 under the Lee 453-300-rf shoots to the same POI in my RBH and the Rossi 20" round bbl in 45 colt. One fox too close to the chicken coop, and a doe for the freezer have found that out. I heard the boolit whistling through the trees after exiting the doe from the Rossi, and the one that perforated the fox, went through a small mesquite tree also.
It just seems to work for me. I don't shoot the Ruger past 50 yards, nor the rifle past 100, but even beyond 100 yards, the 45Colt carbine delivers more power than a thutty-thutty.
( if I load it for that purpose) So far, I haven't had a need to load it any hotter.

[TMenezes]

I did not read all the opinions (most, not all, so dunno if this sentiment has already been expressed) on the last 3 pages but here is my 2 cents.

I love the concept of one caliber for both my lever action rifle and single action pistol.

However I see no reason why the powder charge needs to be the same. I am loading a fast burning, accurate, and low recoiling pistol powder for my revolver and a slower burning, more powerful powder for my rifle.

The simplicity of the same caliber is maintained but the advantages of the longer barrel are also maintained. In a pinch I can use the ammo interchangably, which is nice, but for the most part I will use the intended and developed load for each weapon.

Huge plus right? Same dies, sometimes the same cast bullets, just different powders that are optimized for the weapon it is intended for while maintaining the ability to use it in either one if you need to. I am still learning so if this is off the mark let me know and why. I am always open to learn new things.

[Salmoneye]

I love the concept of one caliber for both my lever action rifle and single action pistol.

However I see no reason why the powder charge needs to be the same. I am loading a fast burning, accurate, and low recoiling pistol powder for my revolver and a slower burning, more powerful powder for my rifle.


While I understand your post, IMNSHO the entire concept of having rifle/carbine in the same caliber is to carry only one ammo...

For me this is the Marlin 1894S/Super Blackhawk combo loaded with Hornady 265gr JFP over 22gr of H110...Not max in either gun, but accurate and powerful enough for everything up to and including Black Bear and close range Moose...

(Sorry for the jacketed reference, but I only recently started loading cast in the .44, and do not have a hunting load worked up yet)

[Combat Diver]

My combos are the .22LR, .22WMR and .41 Mag. My normal plinking/Sunday shooting load is a 215 gr LSWC and 8 gr Unique. Got other specific hunting loads for each. My 1895, 1903, 1917 and M1 all shoot the 30-06 but prefer different loads for optium performance.


CD

[Jeff82]

[QUOTE=TMenezes;1910299]
However I see no reason why the powder charge needs to be the same. I am loading a fast burning, accurate, and low recoiling pistol powder for my revolver and a slower burning, more powerful powder for my rifle.
QUOTE]

I have to agree. I use a slightly different loading for my carbine than for my pistol, but either one will work in both. Or, if you wish you can design of one size fits all cartridge. No need to be limited either way. You still win by having a common reloading and casting operation.

[I'll Make Mine]

I don't really see the point of using the same cartridge in rifle and revolver if they're loaded differently -- at best, you have to keep track of which ammunition is which; at worst, you could have one load or the other that's unsafe in one gun or the other, and find yourself having to choose between risking it and pulling down a bunch of ammo when (not if) the markings get separated from the actual cartridges.

To put it another way, if I'm going to have different loads, I'd just as soon have different cartridges entirely; I won't ever cross up my .357 revolver loads with my 7.62x54R rifle ammunition. That's not the case if I have special carbine-only .357 loads (especially if they're in the same brass and mount the same bullet as the revolver loads).

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I use the same 38-40 loads in my Ruger and 1873; the rifle for ranges over 50 yards and the pistol for up close work. Same loading based on what's good for the rifle works well in the pistol. Same theme for the 30 cabine with the loading for the CB working well in the Ruger. No need to tailor the rifle loads to the revolvers as the RBH's handles it all well. LLS

[MakeMineA10mm]

Currently, I have three (I think) revolvers and three rifles in 44 Magnum. I also have a 444 Marlin rifle, 44 Special (handgun), and two 44 Russians (a rifle and a handgun). These all use .430" boolits, so in addition to ease of shooting interchangeable calibers, to some degree or another, I can also apply moulds to (many) more than one gun...

As far as interchangeable ammo, I understand the argument that to get THE optimum performance out of a particular gun, it needs an optimized load, but I also feel if ammo companies can make loads that are pretty darn good in many guns, I should be able to as well, especially since I also have control over the guns...

I've found many loads are very workable in all my guns. Maybe my standards are lower. Maybe I'm particularly lucky with good guns in my collection? I doubt it though. My "secret" is to get the throats of the guns lined up with one another so sizing to one size is workable, and loading a few percentage (or more) below max loads, and loading carefully/properly.

As far as the OP's question of why? All I can say is, I like the 44 Magnum. It's powerful without being overly abusive in recoil. It's a "big bore." It's capable of handling any game in No. America from rabbits and squirrels to bears. My Marlin 1894P is really light, handy, accurate, and powerful and makes powerful loads easy to shoot.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I think it was more useful in the old pioneer days than it is now, I think the average hunter would be better served by having different power levels allowing a lot of flexibility. For example, while carrying a 22LR or low powered rifle/levergun for woods small game hunting, a 45 Colt or 44Mag revolver would be handy in case something big came along. If hunting with the 3006 or 45/70, a rimfire handgun would be good for smaller game that presented itself.

Personally I leave the handgun at home when hunting with a rifle, just dead weight toting something along that is not as powerful or easy to use as my rifle. Fun for plinking in camp though.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I am currently stalking a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 in .40 S&W. They are not easy to find as they are highly desirable and sell instantly. They are a $300 gun but you see many on GB for $5-600 due to the scarcity.

The idea of this gun is purely tactical. You have a Glock 22 or in my case a G35 sidearm and the S2K uses the same ammo and mags. So you get rifle accuracy out to 100 yds and about another 200fps. The gun is essentially a semi auto STEN which folds and is made largely from plastic.

The gun folds in half and is 16-17" long when folded. It can be brought into action quickly by having the bolt open and a mag in the handle, unfold and lock and release the bolt and you're ready to rock. It easily fits into the normal sized 3 day pack and weighs under 4lbs and you can carry a bunch of ammo easily since the mags interchange with your pistol. It is the ideal bugout weapon and at <4lbs can be carried on a single point sling effortlessly.

Many available Hi Cap mags give you up to 33 rnds in the gun. (33 in 9MM, 31 in .40S&W)

I would really prefer a version in .45 ACP as I have a Glock 21SF, but it doesn't exist and it doesn't look like they are going to make it.

The gun is also available in 9MM and with G18 mags you get the 33rnd cap.

The uses for this type of gun are obvious, it is an anti personnel weapon, However you can hunt and plink with it also if you don't have an immediate need to "anti" any personnel.

I want to do a rifle course at Front Sight with it when I get it, and I already know the only handicap I will be giving away to the AR guys will be at the 200 line. With a simple reddot sight it will be super easy to hit with out to 50yds and not bad at 100 either once I figure out the holdovers. It's definately not a 200 yard gun but I might get lucky and lob one in for a hit.

In this case the idea of a rifle with the same caliber as your pistol makes perfect sense.

I also have .44 Revolvers and Marlin Rifles, however if I was bugging out and had to carry the load they would get left behind. and the Kel-Tec and the Glocks would be going with me. For the possible uses in those circumstances the KT obviously would be superior.

130 years ago this type of equipment using the same ammo for revolver and long gun made perfect sense, a pistol in .44-40 and a rifle in the same cailber, and then a Sharps or a Marlin levergun in .45-70 and you were pretty well armed and equiped to travel in the west. The other consideration is the simple fact that there were not that many choices in the first place.

The passing of time has brought all of the choices we have now into focus. But now all the adventure is gone and we have little to use our new found choices for.

Maybe we'll have another Civil War. The current atmosphere is certainly ripe for it.

Randy