Question about .50-70 springfield and its early ammo

[44minimum]

If the year was 1875 and a fellow were shooting an army surplus .50-70 rifle, would his ammunition be Brass or copper cased? And would that particular rifle be rimfire or center fire? Does anyone know?

What other rifles would have been chambered in that caliber? Sharp's?

I'm writing a western and I would like for it to be as authentic as possible.

[sundog]

Sharp's carbines (most of them were used at Gettysburg) and some rifles went through 50-70 conversion in 1869. Some even had three groove liners installed in the barrel. Most, if not all, went to the western frontier to support the Indian Wars. Later they were sold to civilians through the sutlers. That's a really short version of it leaving out most of the details. Some googling will get you that.

[bob208]

the 50-70 was a cinterfire case. the early ones were inside primed and made of copper. they looked like rimfire. as said before you had the first and second allin conversions. the box wagon fight mite have been their first use. also there was the sharpes carbine conversion of 1866. later these carbines were given to the texas rangers. as in the movie true grit. there was also the 1872 rolling block army and navy in .50-70. remington also made their rolling blocks for the new york state malitia in .50-70. along with civilian models.

[Ed in North Texas]

Bob is right, the .50-70 was always a centerfire cartridge, but the early cartridges were inside primed. I have changed out my firing pin on my NY State Militia 1872 RB because it still had the original firing pin and it left such a deep impression on the primer I was worried it would eventually pierce a primer. The original pin was long enough to fire the inside primer, no need for that long a firing pin for the later standard Boxer primed ammo.


Ed

[.22-10-45]

Many years ago I read..and I can't remember where..that the native Americans along with re-priming the early rimfire ctgs. by soaking match heads in hot water..also re-primed & loaded the early inside primed cases by using a percussion cap & small pebble..crimped in place from outside. Pretty ingeneous for a people just coming out of the stone age.

[Ragnarok]

I've found probably a dozen or better old .50-70 'brass' laying around my father's fields.

They look like copper to me...and inside primed. I've found one bullet I believe came from a .50-70 rifle...however I've never weighed the bullet...although it is a grease-grooved hollow-base.

Buffalo hunters apparently didn't bother to save inside primed brass.

[44minimum]

Thanks for the information

[L Ross]

I have an original Sharps carbine with a 3 groove Springfield liner. It had the original sling bar, swivel, and hardware only missing the leather. I read the wood was replaced when they were converted. Mine has grooves worn into the stock from the sling hardware almost 1/4" deep. The original wood was too fragile for serious shooting as a crack started after only about 20 rounds. I had it restocked with Tree Bone wood and plan to use it for deer season in a couple of weeks. I wish there was a way to replicate the inside primed center fire copper cases I remember from my father's collection in the 60's. They had some sort of crimp like indentations just above the rim on the sidewalls of the case. I'm sure that had something to do with the primimg system.

Duke

[gunseller]

L Ross the crimp you are talking about was about 1/2 inch above the rim and it's only function was to designate the round as a centerfire inside primed. It was also used on early 45-70 ammo for the same reason.
If the guy was shooting surplus ammo it would be copper but if he bought it from the suttler it would be brass cases.
Steve

[oldred]

L Ross the crimp you are talking about was about 1/2 inch above the rim and [it's only function was to designate the round as a centerfire inside primed]. It was also used on early 45-70 ammo for the same reason.
If the guy was shooting surplus ammo it would be copper but if he bought it from the suttler it would be brass cases.
Steve


Well it did that but that was not the reason it was there, it's purpose was to hold the primer in place.

[L Ross]

Boy, it has been 50 years but I think I remember 45 Colt copper cases with a crimp above an almost non-existant rim.
He came home from a cartridge buying trip to the Dakotas about 1961 and he had 44 Henry Flats that he bought by the pound. He used to line up cartridges on the linoleum floor in the farm house and have me identify them from across the room. He had 1800 lbs. of cartridges in that old house, all sold to pay bills over the years.

Duke

[curator]

Most Government made .50 U.S. cartridges were "Benet" primed copper cases. There was no head-stamp and the "crimp" on the case walls near the head was to secure the iron "anvil" that was required for the primer pellet. Many "gun-writers" have claimed they were rim-fire due to no visible primer.

[MikeS]

Yup, some 'gun-writers' would do that. "Hmm, no center fire primer, no pin sticking out, must be a rimfire!" But then most of those 'gun-writers' wouldn't know a primer if it jumped up, and bit them on their rear! Professionally I've had problems with one or two of those writers years ago, so I've learned to take anything written in a magazine with a lump of salt, unless the writer was somebody I felt I could trust. You also can't take the fact that several articles in different magazines say basically the same thing about something also doesn't make it true, as many just parrot what other writers have already written without bothering to do their own investigating (or reviewing). Oh well, there are still a few out there that know what they're writing about.

[Tom Trevor]

The frankfort arsenal cartridge cases were made of Bloomfield guilding metal which was 95 percent copper and five percent zink. yellow cartridge brass we see today is 70-30 mix of same.
So while looking like copper it is in fact an alloy. Hope this helps.