.41 mag advice

[kweidner]

You guys have been so helpful over the years. I have a new Dan Wesson 741v I need some advice on. Recently purchasing the gun, dies, sizer, etc. I couldn't afford a custom mold. I bought a plain base Lee 195 not tumble lube but has 2 rather small lube grooves.

Here are the particulars.

6" Dan Wesson 741v

Throats are .4101 to .4105
BBl slugs .4096

Using ACWW dropping at .412 sized to .4101 202 grains
Felix lubed

No bbl restriction it is a DW

Using 2400 powder with WLP, at 16.5 grains I am getting NO lead and 1.5" groups "Lube star at end of bbl. At 17 grains it shoots .75" at 25 yds over sandbag. Problem is at 17 lead is WOW. I only get 5 shots before it goes south. I tried using rooster jacket on top of traditional lubing but lead is still there. Rooster is only "supposed" to be for under 1000fps from what I read but thats what I had. I am considering trying LLA on top of Felix? This load will shoot but I think at 17 grains with those small lube grooves I am outrunning the lube. I hate to purchase LLA and get messy if it has a great chance of not working. If you suggest another mold with larger Lube groove considering I am shooting paper and the occasional under 200 pound whitetail what would you suggest? Now I have a little cash flow, a phone call to Tom is not out of order. You guys have helped me solve everything else over the years. What does the infinite wisdom of this forum suggest for this one?

Ken

[44man]

I would try hardening the boolits first. Sounds like a little more powder is making the boolits skid or slump. Water drop and age a while before loading.
Changing lube will not do much.
Switch primers to a Fed 150 or a CCI 300.
Rooster and Felix are good to WELL over 1000 fps.
The fastest way to run out of lube is to slump the grooves off in the cylinder.

[jwp475]

I would also harden the bullets. As to lube I like and use LBT Blue

[Blammer]

I would use the 16.5gr for practice as you want to shoot a bunch. Load up some 17gr for hunting, as you'll likely only shoot a few.

Drag along some 16.5gr to shoot through after you pop off a few of the 17gr loads to "clean it out". :)

Short term solution for the current hunting season.

Then I'd try what 44man suggested. Perhaps water drop the boolits and try that.

[cbrick]

44man as usual is correct.

It's kinda doubtful that you have a lube problem using Felix but it would be very helpful to know where and what kind of leading is . . . WOW and how many rounds fired did it take to get to WOW? Smearing something on top of the Felix lube won't cure it, just make a mess.

For full blown 41 mag loads 12 BHN is kinda soft and could well be where the problem is. That is not to suggest that you need to shoot diamonds. Try water dropping your WW alloy, this should get you to about 17-18 BHN and would be plenty hard.

If water dropped WW alloy helps but doesn't cure it you could also try a bit slower powder such as H or V 110 simply to get the bullet started off a tad slower. A good crimp helps a lot with these powders.

After that it's always a joy to get a new mold (with more lube capacity) but stick with the high quality lube such as Felix. 195 gr is a bit light for caliber for the 41 so if a new mold is in your future you might want to consider something in the 220 gr range. This would also be a benefit if you go to the slower powders and for hunting.

Rick

[Matthew 25]

Do your groups begin to open up with the higher velocity? I'd make sure the leading is actually affecting performance before changing things.

[kweidner]

[QUOTE=cbrick;1900910]44man as usual is correct.

It's kinda doubtful that you have a lube problem using Felix but it would be very helpful to know where and what kind of leading is . . . WOW and how many rounds fired did it take to get to WOW? Smearing something on top of the Felix lube won't cure it, just make a mess.

The lead is down the grooves from forcing cone to crown. At 16.5 there is no trace. After 5 rounds of 17 it is pretty much down all the grooves. It first I thought it was an antimony wash. Not so. It's pretty thick. Nothing a copper chore boy won't handle but enough to affect accuracy after 5. The first 5 will touch. After 5 loaded at 17 the bbl is pretty leaded and groups start to open up.

Keep it coming guys.

Yes I do agree 195 is a little light but it was the only available that I could afford after purchasing everything else. If I buy another it will be 225 plus. Thinking even 240.

[kweidner]

Do your groups begin to open up with the higher velocity? I'd make sure the leading is actually affecting performance before changing things.


Actually getting tighter but the lead appears after 16.5. Yes after 1 great group it opens up. Lead covers the bbl. I just cast 100 WQWW and am going to try and see how it goes.

[runfiverun]

well i really think is you should sell me the revolver. then you don't gotta worry about it.
i'll go head and post what i done with it...

buuut since i'm sure that won't happen,i'd go with the harder boolits too.
but i'd try sizing them to 411 first..

[kweidner]

sorry she ain't for sale. Been after one a looong time. I just was having a hard time finding one that i didn't have to mortgage the house for. Guy 2 counties over had it. Been trying to get him off of it for years. He was looking to fund one of those new fangled scatter guns. I ended getting it with both a 6hv and 8hv, original tool, paperwork, and boxes for the bbl. He doesnt know what happened to the original box. It is a Monson serial number in the 2200's. While I am waiting on those I cast today to harden I loaded 2 cylinders with 6 grains of bullseye with those acww. No lead but according to data they were only running close to 1000fps. grouped respectable. Gonna wait till tomorrow to size those wqww and load. will post results.

[theperfessor]

For what it's worth, the Lyman 410459 and the H&G 258 are very similar 220 gr SWCs that have always performed acceptably in every .41 magive used them in. Mihec had a run of four cavity 258 clone brass molds last year, maybe there are some floating around for sale (not mine!).

[kweidner]

Wow I love it when you guys are right. Went up to 19gr 2400. No lead. Here's a pic of the 19gr group at 25 yards. Gotta chrony it now. Guessing 1200+49200

[cbrick]

I just cast 100 WQWW and am going to try and see how it goes.


Wow I love it when you guys are right. Went up to 19gr 2400. No lead. Here's a pic of the 19gr group at 25 yards. Gotta chrony it now. Guessing 1200+

You didn't say in your post but I assume the 19.0 gr load of 2400 was with the water dropped bullets?

If so the water dropping probably didn't do much in only one day, it will take a week for them to harden. In one day there would be a little hardening. Key word is (a little).

Rick

[kweidner]

ok so i chronied it. holy **** 1379ave 10 shot string 39es. Ran about 30 through and had mild leading. Firelapped this morning and lead seems to have cut back a bit. Few wet patches and a 5 minute soak got it out. Changed rear site with my other DW. Triangle/dot target sight is a bit easier on my eyes. Now printing 3" consistent groups at 50. interestingly enough the armor plate my friend got me from a piece of scrap at base the wqww are slightly denting it. It's 5/8 armor good lord. I really doubt they are going to open up in game. Gonna try out on a hog first. Plenty of them around here. I guess if I break both shoulders it won't matter.

[44man]

ok so i chronied it. holy **** 1379ave 10 shot string 39es. Ran about 30 through and had mild leading. Firelapped this morning and lead seems to have cut back a bit. Few wet patches and a 5 minute soak got it out. Changed rear site with my other DW. Triangle/dot target sight is a bit easier on my eyes. Now printing 3" consistent groups at 50. interestingly enough the armor plate my friend got me from a piece of scrap at base the wqww are slightly denting it. It's 5/8 armor good lord. I really doubt they are going to open up in game. Gonna try out on a hog first. Plenty of them around here. I guess if I break both shoulders it won't matter.
You are exactly right with velocity and like a .44 mag, you need no expansion. The .41 and .44 are so close and so good with harder boolits just go hunting.

[GLynn41]

tail end charlie here-- are you using the old 2400 or new2400 I have a 6" DWA VH 6" the older 2400 would let me go to about 18.5 gr with 410459 -- the new is good to 17.5 -but jsut accurate and as fast it seems - killed my first deer with that bullet - now use more H110/296- but still have and use 2400- since you have cured your leading --will not comment on tha-- but Lars Carnuba Red is very good lube also that is good shooting for that lee- good luck on the Keith bullet --Accurate mold makes one- and Mountain mold will also make yuo one

[kweidner]

using the new stuff. I also tried some unique yesterday. 1" groups at 25 yds. right at 4" at 100. 9grains chronied 1205 over a 10 shot string. Lapping this bbl seems to have not only made it faster but a heck of alot less picky.

[**oneshot**]

getting rid of a barrel restriction will do that. Once you have the right sized boolit, you can shoot a wider range of velocity with less issues.
Your gun will still have it's optimum performance at X level of Y powder with D alloy and E=mc' lube.
After doing mine, it will shoot most loads into nice groups, then there are the ragged hole groups with the right combo or combo's.

Glad to hear that yours is where you need it to be.