Savage-Stevens pump 30-30?

[blixen]

Just getting into casting and I've been looking around for a plinking/hike around rifle in an good CB caliber. Seems like 30-30 is the way to go. I've got the opportunity to buy a Savage 340 bolt or a Stevens 174 pump 30-30. (Or at least put on layaway until I raise the total.)

I had a 340 years ago and found it had a bad trigger and was inelegant, for lack of a better word. And the seller thinks he has a goldmine and wants about $100 more than I usually see them selling for.

The Stevens pump (same as a Savage 170) I'm eyeing is apparently was owned by some one who took care of it and didn't use it much--a shiny bore, unblemished light wood (birch, maple?) and is factory tapped for scope or/and, i guess, a peep sight. $250.

Does anyone know about the pump stevens/savage and whether it's amenable to CBs?

[starmac]

I had a chance to buy a savage 170 last year. I asked about them on here, and was basically told it wouldn't make a very good boat anchor, sooo I passed and can't help you on it.
I do have a 340 that I picked up at an auction not long ago, and like it.

[izzyjoe]

from what i hear they are not very accurate, and not the greatest quaility. but for a knock around rifle it should do well.

[pietro]

One of my neighbors has two Savage 170's, a .30-30 & a .35 Rem, in which (both) he shoots & hunts with his own cast boolits.

I disremember what molds/weights/patterns, though.

I've never been to his club with him, to see how they shot (we belong to different gunclubs), but he seems to bring home the bacon every deer season with one or the other rifle.

He told me he paid $250 for the .35 ( IDK how long ago), but I was with him two years ago when he bought the .30-30 at an LGS for $200. (Both are pristine)


.

[blixen]

Thanks--for the feedback.

the .35 Rem. is reportedly rare in the Sav. 170, but would be a nice cartridge.

I lean toward the 30-30 because i've already got dies etc.

I've investigated around the web, and it seems that the consensus is that this pump is a very accurate 30-30--(why, i don't know since it's based on a .410 shotgun action.) But mechanically it's dependable unless its been messed with by a many thumbed gunsmith.

Unfortunately, like a lever gun, bullet length will be restricted. I'm going to look at it again with a bore scope and see if i can get the price down.

The same shop has a .44 mag. NEF, but i're read mixed stuff about them on this forum. And it appears that I wouldn't be able to add a 30-30 barrel because the .44 mag has a SB1 frame and NEF won't put a 30-30 on it.

I've also located a spoon bolt Savage 340 30-30, but it's 150 miles away.

I'm more or less waiting for the stars to line up.

[kbstenberg]

Blixen I have a 340 also. I'm going to leave my regaler deer getter home this year and take the 340. Its accurate and consistent.
Things I learned on mine. The safety is good. But it can be easily be bumped to the fire position. There is no positive stop on either safe or fire.
B. If you are going to put a scope on it make sure there are 4 screw holes on the left side of the receiver. Its a bear to find a comp. smith that is able to tap it. The standard scope mount is very narrow between the supports so a lot of scopes don't fit. But most Reddot do fit if they are 1" tubes.
Unless it is in REALLY good condition the extra 100$ is waisted. That puts it real close to the new price for many good guns.

[richhodg66]

I have both a 340 and a 170. I like both. Haven't shot the 170 much, but the initial shooting I did with it (all with the Ideal 31141 bullet) it was the most accurate .30-30 I own (six total). It has a reputation for being unreliable and this one seems to have a trick to get the slide to unlock after it's fired, you have to push forward a bit then pull back on the slide. It's the nicer version that had walnut stocks and is a pretty heavy rifle for a .30-30 it seems to me.

The little 340 is so ugly it's actually kind of cute. It handles and points well and is a pretty good shooter. I used it to kill one deer with last year and it worked fine. There's a seller on Ebay selling nice, machined alluminum scope mounts that worked great for that split receiver and are much nicer than the stamped sheet metal ones Weaver made.

If it were me, I'd pick the 340 over the 170, but in my limited experience, both are good .30-30s.

[richhodg66]

Another consideration is that with the detachable magazine, the 340 is considerably more versatile as to what kind of loads you feed in it.

The aluminum rail type scope mount I have in mine is just high enough that I can see under it and use the sights (it's not an "iron sighter" mount, just worked that way). My plan is to zero the sights with a light bullet load for small game and the scope for a deer load. I have an extra mag so carrying a magazine of deer loads and a small game magazine at the same time is pretty easy.

[Uncle R.]

340s are so ugly they hurt my eyes. 170s are actually kinda cute. I'd rather have the 170 if it was me - just as a curiosity. For a serious cast bullet rifle I'd rather have something better than either.

[starmac]

Define better??? If they are dependable and the bullet or boolit ends up where it is suppose to what is better?


340s are so ugly they hurt my eyes. 170s are actually kinda cute. I'd rather have the 170 if it was me - just as a curiosity. For a serious cast bullet rifle I'd rather have something better than either.

[richhodg66]

If you do a search on here, you'll find there are a lot of knowlegeable guys who think the 340 is a pretty darn good cast bullet rifle. My experience tends to back this up. I used to look through Gun Digest and such when I was growing up and wonder about the 340 because a bolt action .30-30 seemed neat and my Dad would sneer at them about how low quality they were. 35 years later, when I actually got hold of one, I must say he was wrong, they are a lot of rifle for what they sold for and I sincerely believe if Savage started producing them again, they'd have a decent seller.

In terms of quality, in my opinion, a 340 or Remington 788, both considered ultra cheapies in their day feel like a Rolls Royce compared to stuff like the Remington 710 throw away rifle that they're selling now as the bottom rung entry rifles, though to be fair, I haven't shot one.

I do like the 170. Wish I could get one in .35 as they say the functioning is much better with the rimless case, but they're rare as hen's teeth.

[richhodg66]

By the way, for a walk around .30-30, the Handi Rifles I have are pretty good and you can mix and match stuff too. Both mine are older ones made on what looks like a 20 gauge frame rather than the 12 and have lighter barrels than the new ones. It was easy to install a youth stock on for my youngest son's first deer rifle too. Shot for shot, I think you'd do as well with one of those as with a 340 or 170 and they won't break the bank either.

[atr]

here is accuracy with my 340 30-30 the last 6 shots 1.25"x1.5"at 100 yds using cast.....yes the trigger pull is heavy, but the rifle is great to carry in the woods and accurate enough for 100-150 yd deer.

depending on condition I have seen 340's in 30-30 go for $150 to $300.....

[richhodg66]

here is accuracy with my 340 30-30 the last 6 shots 1.25"x1.5"at 100 yds using cast.....yes the trigger pull is heavy, but the rifle is great to carry in the woods and accurate enough for 100-150 yd deer.

depending on condition I have seen 340's in 30-30 go for $150 to $300.....

I haven't gotten mine to do quite that well yet, but it's certainly a decent shooter and with a little tweaking, I think it will do it. That's a good group. I've never tried any Winchester 748, maybe I need to.

[atr]

richhodg66
what REALLY made the difference was using the C312 mold.....previous I was using a Lyman design mold 311291 and wasn't getting good results....switching to the C312 mold and sizing to .311 really tightened the group.....the Win 748 powder does well at full load capacity....useless for reduced loads

[richhodg66]

I love the 311291 in the'06, but would have figured it too heavy in a .30-30, though I've never measured the twist. I want to work up a deer hunting load with mine using the Ranchdog bullet, but thus far, my 340 didn't like it nearly as well as the 31141.

Whoops, my bad. Got confused with the 311284. Generally, the 311291 has worked pretty well in everything, but not exceptionally in anything with regards to standard sized .30 bores. It always looked to me like a 311041 with a round nose.

[Uncle R.]

Define better??? If they are dependable and the bullet or boolit ends up where it is suppose to what is better?

"Better" to me might mean a 788 in .30-30 - they're not nearly as ugly as the 340s - the action is fairly slick and they're very accurate. I like mine a lot. "Better" might mean a good bolt-action .30-06. I do appreciate the smaller case capacity of the .308 but I like the longer neck of the .30-06. I worked a bit with my son's XL7 .30-06 and it's a great cast rifle. It's light and accurate, has a slick action with an excellent trigger and groups 311284s right around 1-1/2 MOA with no special load development. I paid less than three hundred for it brand new and I sure wouldn't trade it for a 340.
<
For a pump gun "better" might be a 760 in .35 Rem although I've yet to acquire one of those to play with so I can't say for sure. I can say that 760s in general function pretty well and at least some are surprisingly accurate even if their triggers are less than ideal. Some day I'll get the chance to work with a .35 caliber 760 and cast boolits.
<
I ain't putting down the Savage / Stevens guns. They were designed and manufactured to sell for a low price. I think they delivered great value for what they cost, but I don't consider either of them ideal for hunting or target shooting. I still think 170s are cute in an orphaned puppy kind of way, and I still think 340s are mud-fence ugly, but if you think there's nothing better I sure won't argue.
<
Uncle R.

[starmac]

No arguement here on those points. I like my m99 better than those two, but it isn't a 30/30.
I like my 94 better than my 340 or really anything in a righthanded bolt.

I have never shot a 170, and when I ask about them I was basically told they were junk as far as the actions were,so I passed. From the responses on this thread, I kind of wish I would have picked it up. I have certainly waisted 200 on a lot of worse things. lol I gave 90 bucks for my 340, it will never replace the 94, but it will ride in the pickup and canoe and on the fourwheeler, or a sled a lot more than the 94, soooo maybe it is better. lol

I did pickup an old rem pump (30 cal) that seems like it is going to be a fun gun, but haven't shot it yet. I did get some brass, but haven't bought the dies yet, thinking about hammering a few shells together with a lee loader, just to see how well I will like it.

[richhodg66]

The Remington 14 and 141 series of rifles are awsome. I will own one in .35 one day, it is on my "must do" list before I die. Of all the pump rifles ever, I'd rather have one of those than any other.

[blixen]

Thanks for the info and opinions, guys.
i'm going to give the pump a closer look, if it hasn't been sold. I've also located two 340s--one I like a lot but the owner thinks it's the Holy Grail and has priced it that way.

Shot in the dark, I checked with my favorite gun shop to see what they had in 30-30. The only thing interesting was a used but new model Win. 94 (with the crossbolt safety,etc) for $400. They seemed to think it was the cat's PJs at an incredible price, but it's out of my range and I'm wary of post-64 winchester (Had a 80s 94 that was disappointing.)

The shop had some Remington pumps/semis in 30-06.

In short, I'm still looking for a 30 wcf. The trip is half the fun, they say.

[wildwilly]

here is accuracy with my 340 30-30 the last 6 shots 1.25"x1.5"at 100 yds using cast.....yes the trigger pull is heavy, but the rifle is great to carry in the woods and accurate enough for 100-150 yd deer.

depending on condition I have seen 340's in 30-30 go for $150 to $300.....

This is sort of OT, but the mention of a Savage 340 brings back a memory of a young shooter I'd encounter at the gun range in Pharr, TX. He would bring his borrowed 340/222 Rem to sight in prior to deer season. This gun was virtually a truck gun...beat up stock, worn bluing with some surface rust, and had a Weaver B4 scope. His ammo was Federal 55gr. factory loads. That gun produced 1 MOA/3 shot groups at 100 yds.

[atr]

GRRRRRRRRR....OK,,,ENOUGH with the "Ugly"....Homely maybe, but NOT UGLY

[starmac]

Very few deer will check to see how purty your gun is anyway. lol

[blixen]

Here's where I stand.

Savage 340 spoon bolt handle-with a Lyman PEEP sight, birch? stock, very good cond. --$200. (But I have to move fast.) BTW, somehow the light stock takes some of the homely away--making it kinda cute.

Stevens 174 pump-- Excellent condition, exc. bore and bluing birch? stock. $250. I found a gunsmith article on what to check in Savage 170s, as far as wear in the lockup, etc. This one passed the test with flying colors.

Then I stumbled onto a mismarked Sav. 99. Old, old Savage 99 in 30-30! (tag said .300). battered scope, and a TANG SIGHT. But ridden hard--bluing badly worn, stock cracked at wrist. $500.

I can swing $200, but I'd have to sell off a couple of my fav rifles to swing the 99.

[starmac]

While I love my 99, there are better deals for them out there from your description.
The 340 or 170 either one sounds like decent (maybe even good) prices for a fun kick around, at least in this part of the country.

It is funny, very, very few use a 30/30 to hunt with in this part of the world, but the old 30/30 still commands a good price.

[bob208]

if you get the pump you will learn gunsmithing. they were just plain built broke. now the bolt is a whole nother story. a little clubby and hard to scope. but they go bang every time don't mind the weather and hit what they are aimed at.

[blixen]

Haggled a little on the price and did the deed. I'll post some photos of this exquisitely graceful firearm as soon as I can.

Thanks everyone for the feedback. For better or worse, you talked me out of the pump--mostly because I want more leeway for cartridge length with handloads and have enough problem child rifles. Sadly, the Sav. 99 was simply beyond my $ reach.

Now, can anyone recommend a sweet 30 wcf load for the 340? And does Lee make a decent mold? I'm a day late and a dollar shy for the Ranch Dog 30 cal.

I've got Red Dot, Unique, 2400 and 4579 on hand.

[atr]

good choice and good choice of words...."exquisitely graceful"

[Wayne Smith]

It's a bolt action, you can use any boolit you want that fits the mag. I tend to like heavy for caliber cast boolits so would be looking for 170 gr and up. It would be fun to get the Lee Trash Can mold - what is it, 120gr? to play with for plinking.

[richhodg66]

the 31141 shoots well in mine and I think the Lee 170 grain FP is a close copy of that bullet, though I've never used it. Seems like I loaded about 20 grains of 5744 and also 25 grains of old B West 36 which you can't get anymore but burns close to IMR 3031. That was my deer hunting load last year and it worked fine.

[0verkill]

It was already $200, if you haggled $5 off you did good in my opinion. I think you made the right decision, the 99 was just too expensive in the condition listed.
I don't have a 340, but Accurate 2700 is my go to powder with both the 150 and 170 grain LEE flat nose bullets. Reloder 15 did decent too. I've always stuck with rifle powders except some loads with Trail Boss and Red Dot. I never had much luck with Red Dot at all, I wish I hadn't lost my Lyman 3rd edition cast bullet guide, I could at least look loads up for you.

[blixen]

I snagged an '80s Lyman reloading book at a garage sale that lists Red Dot. 16g of 2400 is my go to dose for milsurps--it's almost magically accurate.

I've got a Lee C312-185-1R mold and a .311 sizer, depending on the bore slug, probably that's where i'll start.

The thing I like about a bolt action 30-30 is that long neck gives a lot of wiggle room for seating bullets and the bolt action allows leeway on cart. length (especially if you single-shot load).

[EMC45]

Heads up here.....I shot the heavy RCBS 180gr. FN out of my 340 and it shot a rectangle group. Shot the Lee 150gr. RN and it shot a small round group.

[Mk42gunner]

Now, can anyone recommend a sweet 30 wcf load for the 340? And does Lee make a decent mold? I'm a day late and a dollar shy for the Ranch Dog 30 cal.

Congrats on the 340; I had one in .222 for a while. One day the opportunity for a .30-30 and the funds will come together....

Frank Marshall wrote an article for the Fouling Shot on loading for a 340 in .30-30. It is reprinted in the Third ed. Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, and may still be available on the CBA website. IIRC he used the 311284 and 4350.

One thing, slug your barrel, the article mentioned that his bore was rather large.

If your barrel is on the large size for an American .30 caliber; the Lee 312-185 can work very well.

Robert

[blixen]

I brought that baby home. After looking at so many rifles I have been refering to it as a Savage 340--it's a Stevens 325-B.

I cleaning and examining and slugging it I've learned about it.
--Appears to have been well taken care of. The bore was dusty but the patches soaked in Ed's Red came out clean.

-- It has Lyman receiver sight that--I think-- was added later. The bad part is that one of the mounting screws had sheared off apparently by over tightening. But I managed to get it out--surprising what you can accomplish with liquid wrench, a dental pick and patience. Unfortunately, my screw box doesn't have a match--so it's off to the hardware store.

-- Slugged the bore. It's .3105 with the rifling grooves cutting into the slug to about .305.

-- Any guesses on the wood. It reminds of of an old Marlin .22 I have. Birch? I actually like it and the rifle is LIGHT.

[starmac]

Except for the bolt handle and the barrel nut, shaped a little different, it looks just like my sears model 10153521, which members here told me it is the same as a 340???

Mine does not have the receiver site, and has checkering, but I think that was added at some point.

[0verkill]

I think that's a nice looking rifle. Should bring you happiness for years to come. I wish I could help you identify the wood.

[Tazman1602]

I brought that baby home. After looking at so many rifles I have been refering to it as a Savage 340--it's a Stevens 325-B.

I cleaning and examining and slugging it I've learned about it.
--Appears to have been well taken care of. The bore was dusty but the patches soaked in Ed's Red came out clean.

-- It has Lyman receiver sight that--I think-- was added later. The bad part is that one of the mounting screws had sheared off apparently by over tightening. But I managed to get it out--surprising what you can accomplish with liquid wrench, a dental pick and patience. Unfortunately, my screw box doesn't have a match--so it's off to the hardware store.

-- Slugged the bore. It's .3105 with the rifling grooves cutting into the slug to about .305.

-- Any guesses on the wood. It reminds of of an old Marlin .22 I have. Birch? I actually like it and the rifle is LIGHT.

Blixen,

Any chance you can get the other screw out of the reciever sight and ID it? If you can let me know and I'll see if I have one in my sight screw kit...price is right....free!

Art

[Tazman1602]

Yupper Excess, 8X40 is what I was thinking also..........

Art

[atr]

Nice looking rifle !
A word of caution about the barrel band...if you over tighen you run the risk of snapping that band. I know, I've done it !

[blixen]

I did get both screws out. They both have the same thread, but the remaining intact one seems to be a non-gun thread--because it has a allen socket head. Maybe the previous owner did the d/t himself and used a hardware screw thread size. That's ok by me.

If screw IS a firearms thread size, I'll accept your gracious offer, Tazman, thank you.

ATR, about that band around the barrel--what the heck is that all about? It must throw the barrel harmonics all to heck. Wouldn't be be better to take it off and free-float the barrel--maybe bed the action to make up for the loss of the front screw? IJS.

BTW, the trigger pull is awful. Gritty creep into a heavy, less-than-crisp release. I need to get in there and polish and moly lube, if nothing else.

Hope to shoot it tomorrow with 150gr spire-point J-words. (If I find that #%^&*! screw).

[Tazman1602]

Hey Bixen can you take a close up pic of that screw? If not, *most* ACE hardware stores or Tractor Supply have a good assortment of the oddball stuff. Find a nut that fits it RIGHT and go from there.

Some gun screws are slots, others are allen heads, you just need to determine the thread pitch and number of threads per inch.

Give me a shout if you need help with it dude.

Art

[atr]

Bixen....
on my 340 the barrel band is what attaches the front portion of the stock to the barrel. I have not tried free floating as the accuracy, as is, is sufficient out to 150 yds.
I DID shim between the thrust block which is integral with the stock and the steel thrust face which is interal with the action. I used successive layers of thin brass sheets (which you can get at the hobby/hardward store). This gave me a very snug fit-up and a guaranteed transfer between the steel thrust face and the wood thrust block. In other words the recoil transferred as designed and NOT through the screws which attach the stock to the action.
Hope this helps
atr

[blixen]

Tazman-- a foto of the broken screw and the intact one. I'm going to swing by ace. If not, there is a tool/hobby/machinist shop--nearby-- that has even more screws.

ATR--I get what you are saying about the shims and adequate accuracy. I'll do some shooting before I take on the forearm band. I have an 8mm Yugo with all the wood and barrel bands that shoots like a house on fire without any mods. Go figure.

[Tazman1602]

Blixen --

The screw that was broken that you got out (GOOD for you!) appears to me to be a standard gun screw. Flat head and flat underneath also.

The other screw looks like a standard allen head. What you *may* be running into is someone either stripped out or broke off this screw and then re-tapped it to a standard thread -- just be careful as you *may* need two different screws/threads for this now.

Shoot I could be wrong and the guy who put in the allen screw may have more brains than I give him credit for.

If you find out what thread/pitch and get it going again but then need the standard gun screws, if you'll send me the length/pitch etc I'll look through my screw kit and stick a couple in the mail to you............save you a ton on shipping if I do have them...........

Art

[Mk42gunner]

about that band around the barrel--what the heck is that all about? It must throw the barrel harmonics all to heck. Wouldn't be be better to take it off and free-float the barrel--maybe bed the action to make up for the loss of the front screw?

In theory, the barrel band helps to damp the barrel vibrations. My .222 had a walnut Bishop stock, and whoever put it on the rifle did not put the barrel band back on. It shot okay without it.

Look at it like this: If it groups okay, you don't have to mess with it; if the groups are to big, you have something else to play with.

From what I remember, there isn't a lot of bedding and recoil lug surface on that action, so it may be best to leave the barrel band intact.

I can't remember if the trigger gave me any problems on mine or not.

Robert

[Fishman]

One other thing to watch out for. Make sure that the notch that was cut for the sight is wide enough so that the back of the sight doesn't bear on the wood. I was not so careful with my efforts for a scope base on my 340 years ago. It took many, many shots, mostly Lee 170 gr fp over 8.7 gr of Unique, but eventually a big ol' sliver of wood sheared off and went flying. It's glued back on, but I don't recommend the experience.