Help me decide

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

I have a 2nd Handi rifle in 25-06. I don't shoot it much. I already have a fine varmint gun in .223, and I can light load my . 280 Rem for way out there varmints with some punch.
I wanna trade off the 25-06 barrel and get either 45-70 or a 500 S&W barrel.
I am intrigued by the 500 S&W cartridge, but hear the recoil can be brutal if loaded to potential. As I age, I don't like that so much anymore.
I like the 45-70 idea because of the flexibility to use either smokeless or black powder.
Which would you get and why-

[oldred]

For me that would be easy, the 500 S&W will do very little, if anything, that the 45/70 will not do and the 500 simply costs a LOT more to shoot. Add to that the fact that 45/70 ammo and components are much easier to find (and less expensive) and the appeal of the 500 just does not seem so good to me.

[rhbrink]

For me that would be easy, the 500 S&W will do very little, if anything, that the 45/70 will not do and the 500 simply costs a LOT more to shoot. Add to that the fact that 45/70 ammo and components are much easier to find (and less expensive) and the appeal of the 500 just does not seem so good to me.

+ 1 and the 45-70 is just a grand old cartridge so many boolits and powders that work great load her from mild to wild or anywhere in between.

RB

[DHurtig]

I don't believe there is another cartridge as versatile as the 45-70. Collar button bullets and round ball loads clear on up to 500 grainers that will rock your world. You can even make shot shell loads. You can shoot everything from grouse to moose. Dale

[Texantothecore]

The .45-70 is hands down the best cartridge ever developed. They do everything well.

[Gtek]

45-70 and do not look back. Only problem I see is you may require another one on different platform in future. Maybe you can control it, I have been a bad boy over the years! Gtek

[MT Chambers]

I agree that the .45/70 is the best cartridge of all time, I see the attraction of .50 cal. Sharps cartridges and rifles but not the .500 in rev. or rifles.

[MikeS]

I would say it's a toss up. Both cartridges loaded to potential are going to kick pretty good in a light weight rifle. As far as loading with black powder, being that any cartridges with black powder are going to be a reloading proposition, there's no reason you can't load the 500 with black powder. Don't forget, if you get the black powder bug, and want to shoot in any of the NRA sanctioned BPCR matches, you can't regardless of which caliber you're shooting, as that rifle isn't an approved rifle. If you're reloading, either cartridge can be loaded down to not give really bad recoil. Personally I'm just now getting into BPCR, but I'm doing it with a 10lb old rolling block rifle in 45-70, so if I should get serious (which I doubt, but you never know) I have an approved rifle. If you're going to be sticking with smokeless, then the 45-70 is a big case to fill, and most loads would probably require a filler, something you wouldn't need with the 500. While the 500 doesn't have the old timey coolness, it does have the coolness of having a 1/2" bore! I can see them outlawing all 50 cal firearms way before they would outlaw the 45-70, so if you were to decide to get the 45-70 now, and want to get the 500 later, it might not be an option anymore. Just my opinion, as the rifle is a modern rifle, I would stick with a modern cartridge. This way when you're ready to really start shooting black powder you have an excuse to buy another rifle! :)

[tacklebury]

.45-70 without question. 8)

Round ball with Unique. Small game killer to 100 yards. ;)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Y4ZJu9zTSE4/UBsyhiOV1pI/AAAAAAAABWA/H7ZNN5O5V60/s400/4570roundball.jpg

300 gr. HP with 47 gr. Reloader7
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-NIBfoRFMSow/UBsyhVwHxWI/AAAAAAAABV4/qbQyMFNG_qo/s400/4570hornady300grhp.jpg

325 gr. FTX w/ 47 gr. Reloader7
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_aYJbuxTzDk/UBsyhOTqrCI/AAAAAAAABVw/_vMVaOqd7-U/s400/4570ftxl.jpg

350 gr. FP and 48 gr. Reloader7
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-mVrZHa2PC1o/TsRAZkMDeSI/AAAAAAAAADE/LKOK4V-tJtY/s400/45_70GOV_Hornady_350gr_FP_Interlock.jpg

350 gr. RNFP Leads and Goex FFFg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-WKkLHDINoBc/TxyssK1BxcI/AAAAAAAAAsQ/fc5op83g7cU/s400/40-60_Sideview.jpg

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

Yeah,
45-70 is the way I was leaning just becasue its more "old school".
I really , one day, would love to have a roller, falling block or similar style but they just aint in my meager budget.
Besides, as an added kicker of direction, look what I found in the gun cave last night :mrgreen:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/James64/PA240010.jpg

[webradbury]

45-70...a shining moment in the history of government decisions!

[EDG]

The 45-70 has a large body of knowledge and experience behind it - 139 years.
There is a large variety of components, molds and data that enable you to easily find the combinations that work.
That includes rifling twists, chamber designs, bore sizes, bullet designs, alloys and loads for specific velocities.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Ya, 45/70 and simply forget all those "J" boolit out there!

In some cases, the "J" just as well stand for "junk" so pick only those with solid integrity. However -------

No need for them, and a good WFN cast boolit will do all you ever need for any thing that walks this planet. :lovebooli

I'd suggest a WFN boolit of about 465gr at about 1600 - 1700fps which is simply awesome in the game taking department!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[fcvan]

I like that you can get a 24" or a 32" barrel in 45-70 for the handy. I have a Classic Carbine in 45 Colt and its a lot of fun to shoot. With 300 grain +P loads it lets you know it has a crescent steel butt plate. I have considered getting the 32" 45-70 as I think the additional weight, and the use of slower powder, will help moderate some of the recoil otherwise I'll look for a period looking lace on leather butt pad. The crescent steel butt plate efficiently transfers energy with minimal loss. Frank

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Yep, a crusty and opinionated Ol'Coot here, but why get a rifle with the big long barrels when they are just extra weight to carry with little gain shown for the effort.

Then, as to cresent and steel/hard plastic butts on rifles like a 45/70, Hmmmmmmm where are the smarts your momma tought ya?

Yes, I have had a couple of left shoulder surgeries and this almost 70 year old body doesn't work as well as it did 50 or even 20 years ago, but it is true love with my 22" barreled RUGER #1 which has had a thick and soft recoil pad put in place of the HARD rubber pad installed by the factory.

And, short though the barrel may be, the three seasons of hunting with this rifle have accounted for 4 deer (one tag remaining for this year) and 2 elk and not one has complained that there was not enough velocity from that short barrel.

This short and light rifle is such a joy to carry and shoot, and the barrels are so long and heavy on some rifles, I simply can't hold them up to shoot with the weak left arm.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[44minimum]

I think you have mostly answered your own question, as you said something about a meager budget and you also said something about not liking recoil. Of course either one of them is going to kick if it is loaded to potential, but sounds to me like you're getting a 4570.

[BCRider]

The big appeal about the .500 IS the big THUMP! to the shoulder. That's not to say that it could not be toned down and turn into a good long range round. But as the others have so correctly pointed out the 45-70 has massive amounts of history and a well known set of data on what works for all sorts of loads from mild to wild.

But just to muddy the waters and considering your post about not wanting to load up to the "wild" side of the loads what about a 45-60 or some other variation that has a bit less powder room in the case? That way you're not working with a "dusting" of powder in as big a volume or looking at so strong a need for wads and fillers or other things.

Mind you then brass and other goodies gets a touch more difficult to find.

Or what about the "low recoil lover's" cartridge otherwise known as the .38-55? It's another classic with what seems like a reasonable number of bullet options.

Looking at some other options what about the .444 Marlin? It takes the same .429 to .430 bullets used by the .44Mag so there is a huge array of possible bullets for you to consider. But it has the sort of case volume that would allow you to reload easily over a wide range of bullet speeds.

[45-70.gov]

your 280 rem can't be improved on

so what ever you choose it is just a feel good thing

500 is the fattest/biggest
45-70 is most classic.....the round that failed custer at his last stand
how about all those muzzle loading sabot to play with??

YOU WILL NEED TO GET BOTH I THINK

[GET THE 500 INCASE THEY QUIT MAKING THEM...45-70 will always be with us]

[tacklebury]

Don't think the round failed Custer, but rather the platform he chose to shoot them from, thereby defeating himself. ;)

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

YEP Tacklebury, I'd agree and suspect 45-70.gov is fully aware of that fact.

From the critters I've taken, I would not want to be hit with any 45/70 boolit, no matter what the range.

Of course, that goes also for most any bullet/boolit.

Not a pleasent thought at all!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

well I've been on the hunt for 45-70 barrel, if I dont find tradsie soon, I'll send in the action and have one of 45-70 barrels fitted at the factory. I'd also like to find a 357 barrel as I am already set up for that caliber.