I hate backyard gunsmiths....need some advice

[oldfart1956]

Well folks purchased a Ruger Super Blackhawk on Friday and while cleaning it todays noticed something. With moderate thumb pressure on the hammer...it drops. It was a used revolver and yes...I should have checked this before purchase. Moot point now. I know the s.o.p. is to return to Ruger but I pulled the revolver down and know what the problem is. Some jerk stoned the engagement on the hammer& sear until it won't hold. I don't suppose this is as easy as just buying the parts (Brownells/etc.) and replacing them? "Some fitting required"?? Well I'll check back tonight for any answers and I'd rather take it to my gunsmith than send it to Ruger. I know they have great service but the shipping fees would cost more than the repairs. Be back at 9p.m. E.S.T. to check on the advice. Many thanks in advance. Audie...the disgusted Oldfart...

[45 2.1]

Some jerk stoned the engagement on the hammer& sear until it won't hold. I don't suppose this is as easy as just buying the parts (Brownells/etc.) and replacing them? "Some fitting required"??

If the hammer is the real problem, the inside edge of the hammer notch could be deepened to have more engagement. I've done so on several shadetree gunsmithed firearms.

[MtGun44]

You can recut the surfaces with stones and get the engagement and
angles back to correct, but not everyone is up to this precision work.
Takes stones with extremely good corners and flats, too.

Don't even try without magnification.

Bill

[bob208]

on a ruger you can recut the notches. on rugers the parts are hard all the way through. not just case hard like other guns.

[Fluxed]

Definitely take it to your gunsmith. You probably will not need any parts, this ought to be a "fitting & adjustment" problem as laid out above.

[Whiterabbit]

If I were considering a new hammer, the first thing I'd do is recut the hammer notch deeper. you have nothing to loose. I'll bet you can improve it a-ok. I'd start with a smooth file. the smoothest I have.

I assume that you've checked the parts for square too. if they buggered up the engagement, its possible they buggered up the squareness too.

[Whiterabbit]

We're not all bad guys, by the way. I'm definitely amateur, and before I did my first revolver trigger job I bought the shop manual, studied, purchased fine files, and when I was done I sure as heck made sure thumb pressure (any reasonable) or mallet shock was insufficient to drop that hammer!

What WAS unprofessional was the job that the "professional" I took it to originally performed!

[ebner glocken]

Unless it just really buggs you... If it's a new model it won't go off unless the trigger is depressed. The hammer can fly down w/o incident as long as the transfer bar doesn't let it engage. The safety issue isn't that huge unless it's an old model w/o the modification. If it's still an issue with you the above advise should cure it.

Ebner

[Whiterabbit]

even if my gun were a range queen never to be loaded unless at the range, shooting paper, and ready to be fired..... that firearm condition sure would really bug me!

[fcvan]

Send it to Ruger. It will come back right and likely re-blued if needed. Rugers rates are likely going to be cheaper than a private shop and your gun will be back to factory specs with Ruger behind it, not just a gunsmith down the street. Frank

[oldfart1956]

Folks again many thanks for all the advice. I'll not be tampering with it myself. Going into town tommorrow for an appointment and I'll drag it along to my gunsmith. Also, didn't mean to offend any home-gunsmiths. I used to do my own work, built a good many flintlocks as well. But failing eyes and not-so-steady hands have convinced me to leave it to those with the right tools&skills. Looking at the parts (trigger&hammer) it's obvious here....Dremel. Glad to hear they can (possibly) be re-cut. Audie...the disgruntled Oldfart...

[harvester]

Good choice.

[MasS&W]

This is a SAFETY ISSUE. Do the right thing and buy a new part.

In my experience (fairly decent with regards to wheelguns) a new piece should drop in quite easily, and in this day and age of youtube how to videos, replacement should be a 10 minute affair. Give their plant in NH a call, and I'm sure you can get a part shipped to your door inside of 2 weeks.

Don't try and fix a garage gunsmithing muckup with some garage gunsmithing of your own. The case hardened surface was ground through, grinding deeper will only be a temporary fix, and you will learn of that fact in potentially ugly manner.

[PbHurler]

this is a safety issue.

The case hardened surface was ground through, grinding deeper will only be a temporary fix, and you will learn of that fact in potentially ugly manner.

bingo!

[dnotarianni]

My experience with Ruger in the past would have me picking up the phone and calling them. With what seems to be an unsafe condition I would bet they would have you ship it back to them and they will fix it for free just for a liability standpoint.
You are not a gunsmith and should not have to deal with this issue.
Dave

[Whiterabbit]

on rugers the parts are hard all the way through. not just case hard like other guns.





The case hardened surface was ground through, grinding deeper will only be a temporary fix.....

Who's right?

[gray wolf]

Step one#1 Call Ruger customer service and talk to gill,
Tell him it's a safety issue that you missed when you bought the pistol,
$$$ to Dough-nuts it gets picked up on Rugers dime, fixed and returned in short order. ( no charge ) Be very surprised if it worked out any other way.

[dubber123]

Who's right?

Using "hard" to describe the hammer and sear on a Ruger is whats incorrect here. A truly case hardened part is very hard, and takes stoning to remove metal. Of the Rugers I have worked on, a file cuts them easily. Just not that hard. Yes, I have re-cut a hammer notch that was reduced too much.

[oldfart1956]

Well folks went to the gunsmiths yesterday and we discussed the issue. Then he looked at me and said.."Audie, this gun is going to your grandkids some day right?" Nuff said. He's calling Ruger and going to deal with it for me. Why not just deal with it myself you might ask? Sent a handgun back for repairs one time myself and it nearly cost me my life. :) (There's a story there.) I'll pay the nice man to take care of it. If parts were available I might have considered just having him get the parts and installing. No hammers/triggers currently available outside of e-bay. I'd rather not buy someone elses troubles. Ruger will fix it and if not for free I'll just pay up...not a problem. Thanks to all for some worthy advice. Audie..the Oldfart..

[Whiterabbit]

Using "hard" to describe the hammer and sear on a Ruger is whats incorrect here. A truly case hardened part is very hard, and takes stoning to remove metal. Of the Rugers I have worked on, a file cuts them easily. Just not that hard. Yes, I have re-cut a hammer notch that was reduced too much.

And what are the symptoms? This is important for the following reason.

I've done three trigger jobs to date, and two required a file to get right. One was a flintlock replica, the other my BFR (aka ruger). The flintlock was the last in line, I expected no problems because the first two went smoothly. But after getting the trigger right, I pulled the trigger exactly twice and then the sear didnt hold the tumbler anymore. Some research on this forum and I learned about the existence of case hardened parts as opposed to choosing a particular metallurgy. So I bought carbonizing compound from brownells and today the flinter trigger is just fine.

I didn't have to do this on the other two trigger assemblies, BFR included. Now half of you guys are suggesting my parts are likely case hardened. I can push on my hammer HARD with my thumb and it doesnt drop. I can hit my BFR frame with a mallet and the hammer wont drop. I believe I've done it safely. I've pulled the trigger MANY times (in the 100's) since the trigger job and it's still this way.

But if it's only case hardened then it *should* wear through like the flinter did in two trigger pulls. That's not good!

So for me, something isn't adding up. But I don't intend to keep a firearm in a condition that will quickly lose its safety! I can't just ignore what *seems* like a different condition. I must be wrong here, but how and why? (so I can understand why I'd be restoring a safe condition) So again I have to ask, who is right? If my "ruger" sear and hammer hook are just not that hard, why hasn't it worn through yet when my flinter wore through in two trigger pulls?

I dont mean to threadjack, but oldfart seems covered now.

[dubber123]

"Not that hard" doesn't mean "not hard enough" Any Case hardened part I ever tried to file, the file just skipped off, feeling like trying to file a piece of glass with another piece of glass. The Ruger and BFR parts both cut easily with a file. I figured this out after spending way too much time stoning the ridiculously deep notches down. I now just clamp in a vise, and use a file to remove the bulk metal, and finish with a stone. I believe 44man uses a grinder for his initial metal removal for the same reason. You aren't grinding or filing on the actual surface that the sear slips on anyways, those only get polished/smoothed out.

At least 2 of the jobs I have done have many thousands of rounds fired, with no changes noted, and none can be pushed off, including the one that had to have the notch deepened. It wouldn't be a bad idea to periodically test any trigger. All the ones I have done have been set to 2.5 pounds, with all factory springs, no light junk. I have one now that I went to 1.75 pounds on, and that won't push off either, but it only has a few hundred down the barrel as of yet. I have no problem with paying a qualified individual to do good work, but "qualified" is just rarer than many people think it is..

[Whiterabbit]

You aren't grinding or filing on the actual surface that the sear slips on anyways, those only get polished/smoothed out. ..

Duh. I could have thought of that. Thank you, that jives perfectly with my experience with all my trigger jobs. the muzzleloader was in such a poor shape the tumbler was notched. I smoothed that out and probably removed all the case hardened layer (assuming there was any still there from the previous owner!) that the sear actually engaged with. Not so on the other jobs, stoning only or filing on alternative surfaces.

Thank you!