Whitetail loads and my 44 mag

[292]

Using new Remington brass and Remington primers, I have my M29 shooting acceptable groups for hunting. 2" at 25 yrds (which is not bad for me) and about 5" at 50. My question is why are my 50 yrd groups hitting 6" higher that the 25yrd groups? 240gr Hammerhead loaded with 7.8 grs AutoComp 1.630" OAL.

[Jeffrey]

If you are sighted in at 25 yards, that is too close. The path of the boolit (a curve) is crossing the line of the sights twice, once on the way up, again on the way down. Ideally the sight in point (with a handgun) would be that area in the curve where the trajectory is leveling out. Look up exterior ballistics tables for trajectory values.

[Ben]

Actually, the bullet never goes " UP ", it is falling ever so slightly when it is 1/4 " away from the muzzle in relation to the true axis of the bore.

[NSP64]

Actually, the bullet never goes " UP ", it is falling ever so slightly when it is 1/4 " away from the muzzle in relation to the true axis of the bore.

When sighted correctly the bullet does go up in relation to the line of sight.
It never rises in relation to the plane of bore axis.
The op has the gun sighted for who knows what yrds thus the bullet is still rising through the line of sight at fifty yrds.

Would need boolit BC, velocity, and sight picture to figure out 'zero'

[a.squibload]

Agree, determine trajectory for given load first.

Sight in for "zero" way out there, maybe 100 yards.
That way you will hold low for closer ranges and
your sights will not obscure the target.

[hithard]

site in to hit at fifty and call it good. Anything closer and you'll still be just fine.

[292]

Thanks, I need all the help I can get. Trajectory and ballistics are things I know little about. I thought a little high at 25 would get me close at 50. Doesn't matter because I'm not confident enough to take a shot at a deer at 50 yds.

[FredMcIntire]

I applaud you for keeping your shots up close until you become more proficient at the longer ranges.... That takes a lot of self restraint.

[292]

I applaud you for keeping your shots up close until you become more proficient at the longer ranges.... That takes a lot of self restraint.

That's why I'm taking the .270 also.

[44man]

I sight either 1" high at 50 or on at 75 yards. Good from zero to 100.
Good advise about the relation of the bore to the line of sight. All bullets cross the line of sight twice. A .22 pistol sighted at 25 yards will drop back through the line of sight at 80 yards.

[Griz44mag]

44man,
At 80 yards? With which ammo?
I have 22 ammo from 710FPS to 1680 FPS

I sighted my 44 S&W scope in at 75 yards, It works like a charm. I shoot a 300gr flat nose lead, 18gr ACC#9, ~1300FPS. It's a gristle busting hog slayer.

[292]

I remember reading about the relationship between bore and line of sight in Jim Carmichael's Book of The Rifle. I'll have to reread, maybe it'll help me understand.

[1bluehorse]

Wait a minute, hold on there......some of you are saying if I'm out shooting my 44mag with irons and blowing the center out of the target at 25yds, it can hit 6 inches high at 50 because of ... trajectory????? only way I can see that happening is if I'm shooting UP at the 25yd target..or the sights are way above the bore like with a scope....if you're shooting on level ground, level with your target, dead center at 25 yards, you'll be somewhere lower at 50yds, maybe close to on considering iron sights are what, 1/2in high so in theory (?) you would actually be aiming 1/2in higher..unless you're using a 6 o'clock hold, then yu'd be aiming at least an inch low.....O.K now I've confused myself, ouch, my head hurts, I need a drink...::drinks:

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

YOU ARE SHOOTING UP

your front sight is about 5/8 of an inch above bore axis

you are making up that 5/8 of in inch at 25 yards if you at hitting exactly where the blade of the front sight intersects the target


but most are actually using a 6 o'clock hold shooting say a 3 inch bulls-eye in the center when the blade of the front sight is just touching the bottom edge of the bull

in this case you are making up 1.5 inches plus the 5/8 from bore axis to blade of sight
2.125 inches at 25 x 3 =6.357 inches at 75 yards

a fun experiment would be to take a laser transit to the range set it to the height of your barrel set on a the rest , then turn the sights so that you hit about 3 inches to the right or left of your point of aim now aim at a half bull set right at the edge of the target stand at 25 yards but place another target stand behind it at 50 to catch the hit an then repeat at 75 maybe even 100 being able to see the trajectory at these points with the transit you should see your hits go above barrel height then below if you get out far enough

but you also use a larger bull when moving to a greater distance so the 6 o'clock hold keeps working if the ratio is correct bull size to distance , this way you can see what your shooting at

[292]

I know y'all have read my other thread what is the boolit doing at 15'.

[1bluehorse]

I know y'all have read my other thread what is the boolit doing at 15'.

Okay, I think I've got it....:) according to some of what I think I read, if your on at 25yds, 6in high at 50yds, then you must be 6in low at 15ft. (you'd actually be 5in low) (25yds X3= 75ft div by 15= 5) (?) but with a 5/8inch height of sight, holding at 6 o'clock at high noon on a 2in BS, oops...BE..you're actually shooting below the line of bull..errr... bore so, sine over the hypotanus= cosecant divided by the angle of the sun will give you the angle of your dangle minus the length....so my answer is..the boolits going really fast...next question..:drinks:

[OnHoPr]

That sounds like politician math.:bigsmyl2:

[Wolfer]

Blue horse
Finally, a math post that makes perfect sense to me!

[41mag]

Well all I can add is that I sight in dead on with my sights centered on the bull at 50yds for most of my revolvers. IF and that is a somewhat jaded IF, I shoot at anything further than 50yds I just hold on the center, or possibly a tad high, but not off hair.

In all the times I have reached way out, I have found that if I hold high enough to clear hair even out to 100yds, I usually shoot right over the top.

[Jeffrey]

If you have a Speer manual #14 look on page 148. Or if anyone has one that knows how to post pictures... help us out here. Thanks, Jeffrey

[TCLouis]

Stick data or estimates in here to get the picture of boolit path


http://www.handloads.com/calc/

[a.squibload]

YOU ARE SHOOTING UP

your front sight is about 5/8 of an inch above bore axis...

Also: as the boolit leaves the muzzle,
the barrel is at a higher angle
than it was when you pulled the trigger.

[a.squibload]

I entered Diameter .430, Grains260, SWC/HP, it showed BC .176.

I entered 1200 fps, Sight In 200, 0 wind speed.

It showed Impact 11" high at 50, 15" high at 100, and 0" at 200.

BUT in the Drop column it showed a steady drop from 0" at muzzle to 60" at 200!:confused:

At 200 it showed Velocity 960 and Energy 532, sounds about right for a 44.


Entered 1400 fps for same boolit, it gave a 12" trajectory.

[1kshooter]

hmmm I think i get this stuff now Lenght + hight X angle of left eye brow = grub for the freezer?.....nice lol

[Jeffrey]

Blue horse
Finally, a math post that makes perfect sense to me!

44 divided by 68 (I load hers, she can owe me one) times the natural log of 8... something... and the coefficient of friction of hot lead in a rifled steel barrel minus the speed of light as it shines through a fogged up window divided by the blood pressure of the holder of the 12 gauge who is listening to you explain that this really is my wife out for her first trip to hunting camp. WHEW. Why am I seeing blue?