Does the Bisley grip help with recoil?

[WaywardSon]

I have a couple of Ruger SBH in .44 Magnum...one SS w/ the 4 5/8" bbl. and the other blue w/ 7 1/2" bbl. and the square trigger guard. Both shoot better than I can hold 'em. I am thinking about selling or trading the 7 1/2" gun and trying one of the Bisley models. I am curious if the difference in the grip style makes any difference in felt recoil. I am not all that fond of the way the "plow handle" style grip rolls up in my hand under recoil with heavy loads. Just curious what folks who have tried both think.

[Olevern]

you will no doubt get opinions both ways, I personally like and prefer the Bisley grip. It seems to be a little "longer" in the grip to trigger area and distributes the recoil well. It also, for me, gets me back on target post recoil quicker, with no need to reposition the gun in my hand between shots.

Others opinions differ, YMMV

[44man]

For me, NO. It depends on your hands and mine can not take them for many shots.
It is a hate-love thing with misconceptions.
Some say a hog leg is for "ROLL" and the Bisley prevents it. The hog leg must never roll.
The Bisley bashes my middle knuckle and puts too much into the wrist where the hog leg lifts my arms instead. There is an in between where a Pachmeyer grip turns the hog leg into a great machine.
A SBH can hurt with the wood panels but even with them, never let them "ROLL."
I just don't know where that came from except from horseback.
History shows the Bisley was for one hand shooting with light target loads to align the bore better, not for high recoil because they did not have it back then. History also states roll was to get the hammer close to the thumb for the next cocking of the gun, also false. There were more shooting with two hands even in the past.
Target shooting was with one hand or shooting from a horse while escaping from a bank you robbed.
Personally, I hate the Bisley.
Notice some gun writers hold the single action very high, not right, hold it low, tuck your little finger under if needed. To hold a hog leg high invites uncontrolled barrel rise and pain.

[RobS]

I like the Bisley grip myself and can load up full tilt Ruger ONLY Loads in my 45 Colt 5.5" BH and for me they are not bad at all. My SRH 454 with the same boolit and velocity gives my hand more of a workout especially in the web even having a Hogue Tamer Grip to help absorb the recoil. Both SRH and BH are accurate and where as the Bisley grip took me time to adjust to shooting I now like it. Gripping lower is definately something that new shooters sometimes overlook and not doing so can really make a revolver hurt. The grip question is going to give you many opinions and the best way to know is to try it. If you could find someone's that you could try first that could save you money or make you fall in love with the design. Yep a love or hate relationship.

[brotherdarrell]

My experience is that it does help with felt recoil, as in it helps you feel it better:veryconfu Is is also my experience that it helps ME shoot more accurately.

I have a Ruger BH in 45 colt that I could hit nothing with after about 20 yds. I also have a SBH hunter w/bisley that I can shoot very accurately. I put the Bisley grip frame on the 45 colt and started getting better groups out to 50 yds w/ open sights and bad eyes. With some loads better than 4" for 6 shots. Went back to the original frame and could'nt hit anything. Found a set of Pachmyr presentation grips that had a really flat back and shooting improved.

brotherdarrell

[whopist]

"Does the Bisley grip help with recoil?
I have a couple of Ruger SBH in .44 Magnum...one SS w/ the 4 5/8" bbl. and the other blue w/ 7 1/2" bbl. and the square trigger guard. Both shoot better than I can hold 'em. I am thinking about selling or trading the 7 1/2" gun and trying one of the Bisley models. I am curious if the difference in the grip style makes any difference in felt recoil. I am not all that fond of the way the "plow handle" style grip rolls up in my hand under recoil with heavy loads. Just curious what folks who have tried both think. "

I don't know about Bisley recoil, but this is my solution to taming the Blackhawk recoil:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=126640&page=2

The Bisley Hammer and extended grips are a real winner with me!

[canyon-ghost]

Another bear paw convert

<<<< That is what those are!


http://stores.ebay.com/bearpawrugergripstore

[stubshaft]

I have a number of Blackhawks and Super Blackhawks. I also have a FA 83, and can tell you that if I could make all of the grips the same angle and feel of the FA 83 I would. For my hands and the style that I shoot there is none better.

[DanWalker]

I have a number of Blackhawks and Super Blackhawks. I also have a FA 83, and can tell you that if I could make all of the grips the same angle and feel of the FA 83 I would. For my hands and the style that I shoot there is none better.

I agree wholeheartedly!

[madsenshooter]

I think it does, immensely. It kept felt recoil down to the level that I worked up high enough to ruin a 45 caliber barrel on an old Bisley. It bulged ahead of the frame. Quickload estimated the load to be producing 50,000psi.

[gray wolf]

you will no doubt get opinions both ways, I personally like and prefer the Bisley grip. It seems to be a little "longer" in the grip to trigger area and distributes the recoil well. It also, for me, gets me back on target post recoil quicker, with no need to reposition the gun in my hand between shots.

I agree 100% with the above, I shoot with a two hand hold thumbs forward like I shoot my 1911. My 250 gr. bullets are going 1100 F P S and my follow up shots are very fast and it's not just slinging lead, I hit what I am aiming at.

[S.B.]

Cheap answer, get a pair of Pachmyers for this and these will reduce the felt recoil substanially. Expensive answer get a pair of Herrets custom grips. I hate that Dragoon trigger guard!
Steve

[Groo]

For me, NO. It depends on your hands and mine can not take them for many shots.
It is a hate-love thing with misconceptions.
Some say a hog leg is for "ROLL" and the Bisley prevents it. The hog leg must never roll.
The Bisley bashes my middle knuckle and puts too much into the wrist where the hog leg lifts my arms instead. There is an in between where a Pachmeyer grip turns the hog leg into a great machine.
A SBH can hurt with the wood panels but even with them, never let them "ROLL."
I just don't know where that came from except from horseback.
History shows the Bisley was for one hand shooting with light target loads to align the bore better, not for high recoil because they did not have it back then. History also states roll was to get the hammer close to the thumb for the next cocking of the gun, also false. There were more shooting with two hands even in the past.
Target shooting was with one hand or shooting from a horse while escaping from a bank you robbed.
Personally, I hate the Bisley.
Notice some gun writers hold the single action very high, not right, hold it low, tuck your little finger under if needed. To hold a hog leg high invites uncontrolled barrel rise and pain.
Groo here
I think the roll most people think of with a plow handle is the wrist "rolls"
or rotates more than with a bisley.
As 44 said the little finger should be under the grip on a plow handle.
This "index's" the grip as to be held in the same way and place.
If you want a longer grip look at a cap-and-ball grip frame"colt" style or long wood grips, and the Ruger or FA "Bisley style "grip.

[gon2shoot]

The Bisley grip feels good in my hand untill I pull the trigger. My hand shape is more of a cube (short, wide, thick), the original grip used to work well for me but, as the joints stiffen up and the fingers get crooked I find the Pach. grip is easier to shoot with.

[LAH]

Another vote for the Bisley, works for me.

[joeb4065]

Bisley I real good FA also. I like them both, and shoot them equally well.

[jwp475]

Another vote for the Bisley, works for me.



Works for me as well

[Mk42gunner]

My suggestion is to find a Bisley maodel and shoot it before you go trading off something that you might decide fits better.

Robert

[Heavy lead]

I prefer the plow handle with Herrett stocks in the summer and warm fall weather, winter it's the Bisley with Hogue wood grips (some 3/8" wider than factory) and shoot with thin tight leather gloves (think batting or golf glove) with the pinky under the grip, I don't have much issue with recoil with either, however the regulart Blackhawk or Super Blackhawk factory grip is brutal for me.

[subsonic]

This is a question you will have to answer for yourself. I'd say about 75% of the people I've run into like the Bisley better for heavy recoil. The others like the SBH or something else. It depends on your anatomy and I think even your mindset. The more heavy stuff I shoot, the more I think it really doesn't matter which grip you have on the gun, as long as it fits you and as long as you figure out the proper hold for the grips you have and your hands.

I still think the Bisley grip frame LOOKS cool.

[GL49]

If shooting one handed, try holding your SBH as 44man suggested, that's what I do. The Pachmayer grips are a lot more comfortable for me and remove a lot of felt recoil from my SBH and make it easy to shoot, but I don't really care for their looks. I like the grip style of my FA model 83 the best when shooting my revolvers when they all wear their stock grips. Watch John Linebaugh shoot a heavy load in one of his guns and see how he deals with recoil.

[WaywardSon]

Thanks for all of the responses...a surprising number (to me) of votes for the Bisley style grips. Going to have to get my hands on one and give it a shot. I haven't been able to get to the range enough lately to work up a load in either pistol...but it looks like both are going to be accurate enough for my primary use which is deer hunting. I have killed 'em every which way from Sunday...except with a pistol. Got out the other day with the SS gun.
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj68/WaywardSon01/Toys/IMG_2164.jpg

And yes, the Pachymar's do help. I can't deal with the stock grips.

Thinking about selling or trading this one as I am not willing to pack that long barreled sucker.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj68/WaywardSon01/Toys/IMG_3364.jpg

Does shoot OK though. Ready for deer season to start now...need to get in the woods:-)

[snowwolfe]

I think with a 44 mag you can go either way as there is not that much recoil to contend with in comparison to the heavy hitters on the market like the 454 Casull, 475 Linebaugh, 500 JRH, etc.
Where the Bisley style starts to shine is when you get into cartridges above the 45 Colt shooting heavy max loads.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ill put it like this. At the last linebaugh seminar i was at kelly brost picked up his new 500 linebaugh. two years before i had gotten mine a 4 inch bisley vaquero. He liked it so much he decided he wanted one. Only differnce was he had his done on a blackhawk grip frame vs the bisley. Hes about the most recoil tolerant guy ive ever met. He did all the shooting for the penetration testing at the two seminars i was at. Now i had some pretty stout loads for mine. We were out shooting and i had probably shot 50 rounds out of mine and he handed me his. I put the same loads in his and it was totaly brutal!! 5 shots and i handed it back and had blood on the web of my hand from the hammer coming back and slamming into it. Now in my opinion if your talking 44 mags or heavy 45 colt loads a standard blackhawk is just fine. Ive got one 45 colt that clements built me thats got a alum grip frame eject housing and is scalloped with a 4 inch barrel and a black hawk frame that will really get on you with heavy loads but most full weight guns are just fine with a blackhawk frame. Get up into heavy 454, 475 or 500 loads and a bisley is hands down better at taming recoil and if a guy argues that with you hes just never shot one both ways. i find that most guys who will tell you the bisley doesnt help are guys shooting guns like 7.5 in 44 mags that are all steel. A gun like that doesnt have enough recoil to even mention.

[44man]

Lloyd, what the Bisley does to me is my large middle knuckle can not get away from the trigger guard and it gets bashed bad.
Freedom had some nice rubber grips that made the .475 comfortable.
Jack Huntington has a Bisley with a different shape and thick at the rear panels. I think I can shoot it.
The SBH and square trigger guard will also beat my knuckle, only Pachmeyer grips get me away. My knuckle has been beat, pounded, sliced and diced with blood flying.
I have large hands and can hardly find gloves to fit.
That is why I always suggest trying a grip first. My first Bisley went down the road in 2 weeks! :mrgreen:
It's good that both styles are offered by some makers but if BFR went to a Bisley only, I would not want another. Yet it would be nice if they offered them for those that like them.
I have nothing against them but my hands hate them. :twisted:
I could never feel any difference in recoil handling between them, just stick the back of the trigger guard where the sun don't shine. :veryconfu
I hate the MOA and TC grips, had to make my own MOA lever and it is only a 7BR. You can see how a little fix saves me.

[Lloyd Smale]

square dragoon supers bite me too. Ive also got issues with rubber grips on really heavy recoiling guns. If you dont wear a glove there just to sticky and will peal skin off your hand after a day of shooting. Most people that have trouble with bisleys biting them like you just arent holding them right. From years of shooting single actions guys have a tendency to choke up on a grip. With a bilsey you do just the oposite. wrap your hand around the lower part of the grip frame. Dont put your hand up high on the grip frame and you wont have that problem.

[2 dogs]

The square back trigger guards and such dont start to bother me until the bullet weight gets up over 300 grains. Is the Bisley better for you? You will have to try one to see for yourself. It sure works for me.

[S.B.]

square dragoon supers bite me too. Ive also got issues with rubber grips on really heavy recoiling guns. If you dont wear a glove there just to sticky and will peal skin off your hand after a day of shooting. Most people that have trouble with bisleys biting them like you just arent holding them right. From years of shooting single actions guys have a tendency to choke up on a grip. With a bilsey you do just the oposite. wrap your hand around the lower part of the grip frame. Dont put your hand up high on the grip frame and you wont have that problem.

Good point! I've yet to see anyone shoot my JRC 500 without it leaving traces of rubber in the web of their shooting hand.
Steve

[44man]

square dragoon supers bite me too. Ive also got issues with rubber grips on really heavy recoiling guns. If you dont wear a glove there just to sticky and will peal skin off your hand after a day of shooting. Most people that have trouble with bisleys biting them like you just arent holding them right. From years of shooting single actions guys have a tendency to choke up on a grip. With a bilsey you do just the oposite. wrap your hand around the lower part of the grip frame. Dont put your hand up high on the grip frame and you wont have that problem.
Low grip is where it is at with any. But it will not save my knuckle. There is not enough room between the grip and guard for me with a Bisley.
I can shoot very heavy recoil with rubber grips without a glove. Never had anything on my palm and gloves are just for my finger for padding behind the guard. I think I just hold tight enough so grips can't slide and rub skin. I have always had a strong grip, been a mechanic that could break bolts and did heavy work all my life.
It is like a hand shake, those with strong grips are good to go but the limp wrist wimpy touch should be kept away from a big gun. I love a man that shakes my hand with power and I return it.
I agree with you it is the high grip "roll" junk promoted by some. No grip should ever "roll." When you come out of recoil, the gun should be in the exact same position in your hand and you should never have to adjust it.
The hard part comes! Some have no hand strength at all. A few years ago I could crush your bones. Even near 75 I still can grip a revolver. Then you buy a huge revolver and get hurt so you think a Bisley will save you. Not so, recoil does not change, it changes where it hits you. Those with no strength need the straight push. Have big fingers and feel pain.
To put it into context, none of us are the same. Some can't break a grape, some can crush a coconut so just why do you push a grip that only works for you?
The Bisley is pushed way more then any grip for heavy recoil. It might be the worst thing you ever shot or the best.
I relate what works for me and never, ever tell you what grip to use. You decide. I have seen too many injuries, blood and split heads from a Bisley then any other from a belief they are better.
Just how do you cut your trigger finger? Yeah, the gun goes wild because you can't hold it so it slams your finger in the front of the trigger guard. One fellow came to shoot often and taped his trigger finger with band aids, wore a thick glove, had his arms go to pot and start to flinch bad.
I shot his guns bare hand without a problem.

[Lloyd Smale]

no grip frame will make up for lack of hand strenght or make a 500 seem like a 38special. You have to first admit to yourself your shooting something with some serious recoil and learn to deal with it.

[cbrick]

As 44 said the little finger should be under the grip on a plow handle.

This "index's" the grip as to be held in the same way and place.


Not so sure about that but in all honesty it could well depend on many factors such as bullet weight/velocity, hand size, grip size etc.

I shot long range revolver for several years with the little finger under the grip of the plow handle fully convinced that it worked and I even counceled newer shooters to do it this way.

Then I competed for several years without placing the pinky under the grip and overall and over time I was more consistent with the little finger on the grip, not under it.

One thing though that is an absolute cold, hard fact is that your grip MUST be identical, EXACTLY the same from shot to shot. Revolver is the most difficult action type ever designed to shoot long range accurately/consistently. The key words there are accurately and consistently. The reason is simple, as compared to say bolt action rifles or even semi auto's the lock time and barrel time are very slow. From the time the sears break to the time when the bullet has fully exited the muzzle is much longer in a revolver. Even a 22 rimfire will move somewhat in your hand under recoil and if the grip is not identical to the previous shot the muzzle WILL be in a different position when the bullet finally clears the muzzle based soley on your grip and how the grips moved in your hand, the bullet will go where the muzzle was when it exits and that may not be where the sights were aigned.

Bisley or the plow handle tame recoil? Be kind of tough for me to say, I compete long range with the plow handle with fairly stiff loads and my Bisley 45 Colt is used at much shorter ranges with mostly middle of the road loads. I do treat them both the same as far as grip goes, as consistent as possible. My old model SBH 44 and my large hands are well served with the rubber Pachmeyer grips covering up that square trigger guard.

Rick

[44man]

no grip frame will make up for lack of hand strenght or make a 500 seem like a 38special. You have to first admit to yourself your shooting something with some serious recoil and learn to deal with it.
Very true.
The amount of .44 revolvers I have seen for sale with almost a full box of ammo tells the tale. There must be a billion posts looking for light loads.
I always bought a gun for a use and to use it to potential, To go from a 30-30 to a .300 Weatherby had a reason for range and to turn it into a 30-30 is so strange.
The .500 revolver was made for a reason but so many want a .45 ACP recoil.
I really think many bite off more then they can chew, then look for ways to reduce recoil. Since recoil is in foot pounds, it never changes.
But I am one to tell you that if you grip it right you can shoot it. I just wont tell you your gun is too big because I have seen way too many shoot them. A few words on hold first has been a pleasure to me with everyone. There has been no training sessions, just a few words and I watch my box of ammo go away fast.
Just use a grip that does not hurt you or cut you, 100% personal. Then you can shoot anything.
Super slippery fancy panels on a hard kicker is going to hurt you.
Stop and think why checkering is used for grip. A 1911 is checkered and even the front strap but a guy with a .500 is using smooth grips because rubber is ugly.

[44man]

Not so sure about that but in all honesty it could well depend on many factors such as bullet weight/velocity, hand size, grip size etc.

I shot long range revolver for several years with the little finger under the grip of the plow handle fully convinced that it worked and I even counceled newer shooters to do it this way.

Then I competed for several years without placing the pinky under the grip and overall and over time I was more consistent with the little finger on the grip, not under it.

One thing though that is an absolute cold, hard fact is that your grip MUST be identical, EXACTLY the same from shot to shot. Revolver is the most difficult action type ever designed to shoot long range accurately/consistently. The key words there are accurately and consistently. The reason is simple, as compared to say bolt action rifles or even semi auto's the lock time and barrel time are very slow. From the time the sears break to the time when the bullet has fully exited the muzzle is much longer in a revolver. Even a 22 rimfire will move somewhat in your hand under recoil and if the grip is not identical to the previous shot the muzzle WILL be in a different position when the bullet finally clears the muzzle based soley on your grip and how the grips moved in your hand, the bullet will go where the muzzle was when it exits and that may not be where the sights were aigned.

Bisley or the plow handle tame recoil? Be kind of tough for me to say, I compete long range with the plow handle with fairly stiff loads and my Bisley 45 Colt is used at much shorter ranges with mostly middle of the road loads. I do treat them both the same as far as grip goes, as consistent as possible. My old model SBH 44 and my large hands are well served with the rubber Pachmeyer grips covering up that square trigger guard.

Rick
Yes, very, very good answer. I don't always put my finger under. NOT FROM BAGS either. But on the IHMSA range I could alter my grip with the hog leg as distance and elevation changed. Most forgiving.
Hold MUST be the same. Roll with the grip makes you search for the same grip for the next shot.
The saying I hate most is the hog leg was made for "roll." THAT IS NOT TRUE!
Next is the Bisley was made for recoil--NOT TRUE, it was to get the barrel in line to your eye better for one hand target shooting.
The reason for the little finger under is to show the hand position but you can bring it up on the grip without changing the rest of the grip.
The Bisley needs more attention to hold as a tiny shift will throw shots. It just does not have the index from shot to shot. Barrel rise is never the same, how do you control .001" barrel rise shot to shot?
Cbrick knows. At 200 meters .001" change is a miss, imagine 500 meters?
How can I say it easy? The boolit exit HAS to be from the EXACT barrel rise position for every shot. The handgun is 100% dependent on barrel rise.
Only when you can hold a revolver so you out shoot a Ransom rest will you be able to understand the grip.

[snowwolfe]

Don't ignore the "pointability" factor of the Bisley grip. Being somewhat stubborn I long ago decided the Bisley was not for me and was just a trend. But then puchased a Ruger Bisley 45 Colt and really liked how it felt. The more range time I had with it vs my "plow handle" revolvers the more natural the Bisley grip felt.

The plow handle style makes you want to get a higher grip which in turn seems unnatural as I always find myself trying to grip it lower. Fat on the bottom and skinny on top means it will slip in your hand.

Consider me a convert. Also, even if you compare a S&W or Ruger double action the grip is more in tune with a Bisley than a plow handle. There is a reason for it:)

[44man]

Now a Pachmeyer on a SBH DOES change the profile, yet not full Bisley.
The S&W grip will be sensitive to hold as is the RH. The SRH just needs firm.
Double action grips are because of the gun design, not for recoil. They hail back to the first double actions, .38 S&W, .38 special, etc. Grip angles have not changed much since the zero recoil days, they just added rubber.
I have never, ever had rubber rub off or skin rubbed from the .500 JRH, .500 S&W or any other. Any SA with wood panels is still held low, finger under if needed.
The one gun I refused to shoot was the Bisley .50 Alaskan with super smooth micarta grip panels. I am just not that stupid or macho.
A SBH .44 with wood panels can be painful. I hate them. Been beat with .357's and .41's, I hate the wood panels.
My Vaquero .45 beat me with heavy loads. It now has Pachmeyer grips and I can shoot any load.

[sixshot]

There's a reason 90% of the heavy recoiling custom guns have a Bisley style grip & it itsn't for looks, its for handling recoil. I could never in a million years get used to putting the pinky under the grip frame, I know many do it but I'm not one of them. Just try that without even holding a gun & see where the pressure is. I'm glad they make different styles, because one style isn't for everyone. I actually like the looks of a standard blackhawk better than the Bisley but not when it comes to shooting, also I'm one who gets rapped by the square trigger guard.

Dick

[Dan Cash]

For me, the Bisley grip has all the elegance and pointability of a CZ52 or Broom Handle Mauser. Good Lord, they are awkward. For me it is the Colt SAA plow handle.

[snowwolfe]

Dan,
Curious, what is the most powerful handgun you use on a regular basis?

[Gibson]

44man: I believe I am in total agreement.

The lower your hand is relative to the center of the bore the more recoil one feels in the upward direction. That, in turn, acts to "bleed off" recoil in the straight back direction. It is a couple. Took me a long while to realize to grip the gun lower and allow the muzzle rise to happen. My preference.

"The primary reason for muzzle rise is that for nearly all firearms, the centerline of the barrel is above the center of contact between the shooter and the firearms' grips and stock. The recoil forces from the bullet being fired and the propellant gases exiting the muzzle act directly down the centerline of the barrel. If that line of force is above the center of the contact points, this creates a couple, a rotational force. That couple causes the firearm to rotate, and the muzzle end to rise upwards."

I have not shot a gun with Bisley grip frame. I CANNOT offer any opinion.

Then again, I'm satisfied with what I have. Once I grasped the simple physics of the thing, I grip the rubber grip lower and let it ride up, while keeping my shooting hand elbow locked. In the BFR 500 S&W Magnum, I've shot many 465 grain rounds at 1700 fps and a few 700 grain rounds at 1150 fps. Brisk recoil, but plenty bearable. To me, FUN. My favorite handgun to shoot. The SBH .44 magnum I have also gets HEAVY loads. It has a 4 5/8" barrel and I grip it with my pinky off the bottom. Nothing to it, even with 310 grain bullets @ ~1350 fps. I've shot a ton of 'em.
I agree with 44man.

I have NEVER had the atrocious rubber grips that came on the BFR bother my skin at all, but my skin is tough, well, unless exposed to the blade of a Green River skinner.

44man, we are simpatico.

[I just read your recoil does not change statement, 44man. That is absolutely correct.]

[smkummer]

I have a Ruger Super Blachhawk for 35 years and its OK for upper level loads but I talked my buddy in the Bisley SBH and he loves it. It feels better with any load and especially with full power loads. I just bought a 1908 Colt 4 3/4 bisley in 38/40. With 180 grain bullets going out at 900 plus FPS, it is sure nice to shoot and feels so comfortable. Just my .02.

[44man]

There is some truth that the lower the barrel is, the better. Less rise, etc, but not the final answer. Control of rise also works.
All the years I shot IHMSA and tried all the 29's I had that were deadly accurate taught me. After 5 shots you put the gun down for target setters. I would center the first 5 chickens at 50 meters, miss the next 5. Then I might miss the first 5 pigs and center the next 5.
The 29 was NEVER in the winners circle from anyone even though it could shoot 1/2" groups at 50 meters.
The RH does it to me. The Bisley does it too. I was shooting beer cans at 200 with the SRH.
The SBH with Pachmeyer grips was consistent no matter what. Even the wood panels worked for accuracy.
FEEL in the hand has nothing to do with consistency. If you want to see what your grip does, put the gun down between shots, then keep it in your hand for the next group. Then shoot a group by letting the gun roll or wiggle around.
Less recoil feel does not make the gun more accurate and can really hurt accuracy.
Look at free style pistol grips. You get locked in to them like putting your hand in a glove. Good custom revolver grips can do the same.
Even the rubber Freedom grips on their .475 cut groups in half over the pretty panels.
To look for "FEEL" might turn your gun into a Scud rocket that never hit a target.
You need to understand just how important grips are and how they fit YOU. Not the whole story because NOBODY EVER shot a good score at IHMSA with the S&W 29. GRIP????
Look at a shotgun. So much is made about FIT. You can't hit a single thing unless the gun fits you. Same with a rifle.
I have shot a few good groups with a Bisley but I sweat blood doing it.

[cbrick]

FEEL in the hand has nothing to do with consistency. If you want to see what your grip does, put the gun down between shots, then keep it in your hand for the next group. Then shoot a group by letting the gun roll or wiggle around.

So much is made about FIT. You can't hit a single thing unless the gun fits you. Same with a rifle.

Perhaps we have a difference of terminology. Feel in the hand has everything to do with grip consistency. In a 40 round match I take the revolver out of my shooting hand 40 times (right hand in my case), after every shot I take the revolver out of my hand and replace it exactly where it was. If it doesn't feel exactly the same I do it again until it does feel the same, exactly the same place high & low, left & right. In addition finger pressure or how tightly you squeeze the grip is every bit as important as where on the grip you hold it. If you hold the grips in exactly the same place for every shot but squeeze it more or less for each shot you are altering muzzle rise before the bullet exits for each shot and the difference in point of impact at 200 meters can be literally several feet up & down.

With each shot not only does the muzzle rise but the revolver will turn in your hand, it must be held in exactly the same place and exactly the same way if you want the next shot to go where the last shot went. When you re-grip the revolver any minor variation in what the grip feels like will change the location of the next shot.

Yes, fit is important, very important. I shoot a freedom arms with Pachmeyer grips, If I had to use those very tiny but pretty wood grips I would be lucky to ever hit a 50 meter target. My large hands just swallow up those tiny wood grips to the point that almost half of the palm of my hand is under the grip and anything close to grip consistency is all but impossible.

Rick

[alamogunr]

This thread has told me one thing. You need to try different grips to see what works for you. I like the Bisley grip but the FA grip is not the same(for me). I am prejudiced against the Super BH, if that is the one with the square back trigger guard. Mine beats my middle finger to death. I've been tempted to have it converted to a 5 shot .45 Colt with the Bisley grip frame. Money and my age are the only things holding me back. Probably can't justify it for the years I have left to shoot.

[cbrick]

I am prejudiced against the Super BH, if that is the one with the square back trigger guard. Mine beats my middle finger to death. I've been tempted to have it converted to a 5 shot .45 Colt with the Bisley grip frame.

Try the Pachmeyer rubber SBH grips, it will seem like the trigger guard went away. alamogunr will be a happy camper without spending the money to convert it to a Bisley.

Rick

[44man]

Try the Pachmeyer rubber SBH grips, it will seem like the trigger guard went away. alamogunr will be a happy camper without spending the money to convert it to a Bisley.

Rick
Yes, I agree. It can really turn the gun around.
We have just a difference in terms. Many grips "FEEL" great to me. The Bisley feels good. I just can't get my hand in the exact same position with some.
Even the 29 grip feels like it was made for me. I would stare at the gun in my hand and say "WHAT THE HAY?????" :groner:

[opos]

Lots of talk about the Pachmyers but nothing said about the Hogue's...I have an OMSBH and also a NMBH in 4 5/8. I have shot neither of them...I'm an old guy (75) with arthritis...frankly I bought both guns for different reasons .... the OM is a near perfect early gun with the box and paperwork and I just liked it...the NMBH was a "whim" buy and I'd figured to just shoot 44 special loads (or just a bit above) in 44 mag brass...I'm passed the days of enjoying recoil but hate to shoot 22's and 38 specials all the time...and once in a while I like to take some advil and feel a bit of recoil (just a bit)....I shoot a lot of Trail Boss with 200 grain RNFP softer lead projectiles at lower speeds in my BH 45 colts and really enjoy it...again, now and then I load some up but not very often.

I did buy some Hogues which have not been installed and if they are not such a good deal I can e bay them and get some Pak's .... which of the pak's would be the best? Again, these will be shot with lighter loads all the time.

Thanks

[44man]

I like the signature series best. Hogue grips are good but some are fat. Try them first.

[LAH]

If one will repeat point of impact, one will repeat everything else, sixgun or rifle.

[bigboredad]

Lots of talk about the Pachmyers but nothing said about the Hogue's...I have an OMSBH and also a NMBH in 4 5/8. I have shot neither of them...I'm an old guy (75) with arthritis...frankly I bought both guns for different reasons .... the OM is a near perfect early gun with the box and paperwork and I just liked it...the NMBH was a "whim" buy and I'd figured to just shoot 44 special loads (or just a bit above) in 44 mag brass...I'm passed the days of enjoying recoil but hate to shoot 22's and 38 specials all the time...and once in a while I like to take some advil and feel a bit of recoil (just a bit)....I shoot a lot of Trail Boss with 200 grain RNFP softer lead projectiles at lower speeds in my BH 45 colts and really enjoy it...again, now and then I load some up but not very often.

I did buy some Hogues which have not been installed and if they are not such a good deal I can e bay them and get some Pak's .... which of the pak's would be the best? Again, these will be shot with lighter loads all the time.

Thanks


I needed a quick cheap replacement for a .45 colt and I ended up getting them huge ugly finger groove hogues. They are tad bit too fat for my stubby fingers but in my opinion they are way better than pach's

[opos]

Just for my information I looked at Ebay and at the Pachmayr web site under products and all I find is a grip for the Super Blackhawk that is specified for the "new model"...mine is old model and of course has the square trigger guard....is there a difference between the grip on the old model with the square guard and with the new model with a similar square trigger guard? I'm aware of the super blackhawks with the round trigger guards (I have one ... new model .... in 4 5/8bbl)...I don' t find any of the Pachmayrs that are specificlly for the Old Model...

thanks

[Dan Cash]

Dan,
Curious, what is the most powerful handgun you use on a regular basis?

.45 Colt SAA is my daily companion but I shoot and carry a .41 mag Smith or a .44mag Smith when conditions indicate such. I shoot the big boomers each 7-10 days. The Colt I shood daily.

[_Hawkeye_]

FOr me the Bisley shoots fine, but I dont like the feel when I go to cock the hammer, feels loose.

[bearcove]

I like a smaller grip. My FA 83 454 works for me. Ruger grips too. Only gun I've liked with rubber is my Mountain Revolver with Pach s with the finger grooves. They fit. The Rubber grips on SA guns are too big on the backstrap and bruise the thumb tendons. BFR's are the worse for me. Not weak hand I'm a welder and have short thick hands and wear XL gloves. More a matter of fit for me.

The FA 83 kicks hard and really slaps my hand but the BFR with the rubber up high on the backstrap and too big around was hurting the web of my hand between my thumb and index finger. My 454 loads are way hotter than the 475L and 480 ruger loads I shot in the BFR. I'd get a FA next time If I wanted a 475 or 500.

Just cause they fit me.

[Lloyd Smale]

I wish you guys could come over as ive got a good comparison for you. Ive got two bisley vaquero 4 inch 500 linebaughs. Now if a 500 is going to recoil youd probably expect these 4 inch guns to be murder to shoot. I also have a 4 inch standard blackhawk in 45. Its a stainless gun dave clements did for me. Its got an alum grip frame, ejector rod housing and the recoil sheild and loading gate are scalloped so its a fairly light gun. Ive had quite a few guys out shooting my 500s with there normal load of a 450 grain bullet at 1200 fps and then broke out this 45 colt. I shoot a 300 at about 1200 out of it. Most will shoot one shot out of the 45 and put it down and say no more and go back to shooting the 500s. that 45 will just flat get on you. When i had it built i wanted a lightweight packing gun. I searched high and low for one of the elusive aluminum bisley grip frames John Linebaugh made back in the day but just couldnt locate one. It would change that gun from a gun like a 329 smith that you only want to shoot when you absolutely had to, to a gun that would actually be fun to shoot. Then if you want a real eye opening comparison shoot that 45 and then shoot the exact same load out of my 4 5/8s steel bisley. The steel gun feels like shooting 38 specials in comparision.

[frank505]

We were shooting a 4 5/8s 500l and a 45 4 5/8s. The 500 was 450 keith with 16 of HS6, the 45 was a 335 keith with 19 of 820. I could shoot the 500 with a Bisley grip frame and not bleed or even hurt much. The 45 has a modified Bisley grip frame and doesnt hurt, it just flat kicks. Big difference in recoil between the two sixguns.
This winters project is turning the 45 into a 500L myself.

[44man]

I wish you guys could come over as ive got a good comparison for you. Ive got two bisley vaquero 4 inch 500 linebaughs. Now if a 500 is going to recoil youd probably expect these 4 inch guns to be murder to shoot. I also have a 4 inch standard blackhawk in 45. Its a stainless gun dave clements did for me. Its got an alum grip frame, ejector rod housing and the recoil sheild and loading gate are scalloped so its a fairly light gun. Ive had quite a few guys out shooting my 500s with there normal load of a 450 grain bullet at 1200 fps and then broke out this 45 colt. I shoot a 300 at about 1200 out of it. Most will shoot one shot out of the 45 and put it down and say no more and go back to shooting the 500s. that 45 will just flat get on you. When i had it built i wanted a lightweight packing gun. I searched high and low for one of the elusive aluminum bisley grip frames John Linebaugh made back in the day but just couldnt locate one. It would change that gun from a gun like a 329 smith that you only want to shoot when you absolutely had to, to a gun that would actually be fun to shoot. Then if you want a real eye opening comparison shoot that 45 and then shoot the exact same load out of my 4 5/8s steel bisley. The steel gun feels like shooting 38 specials in comparision.
That's funny Lloyd! :mrgreen:
I have the older vaquero .45 with a 7-1/2" barrel. I shoot 335 gr and 347 gr boolits at 1160 fps. 6 shots was my limit and no one else ever reached that many. I put Pachs on it and it is a pleasure now.
I can shoot the BFR .475 and JRH all day.
Gun weight! Nothing else reduces recoil better. Any gun that goes wild is no fun and not something I want to shoot at deer with because you have no control over elevation.
I shot over the first three deer with the .475 because I am too relaxed hunting. Heavy BFR, 7-1/2" barrel. It was me, holding less tight then when I sighted it.
I don't want to hunt with any gun that winds up along my ear from recoil. The gun must be stable.
That light stuff is just to show off with friends or to stop a bear at 2'. Good carry back up is all.
My deer revolvers must have weight and hit to the sights beyond 100 yards. I don't want to walk behind me to find my gun! [smilie=w:

[subsonic]

I've never been a fan of the standard blackhawk grip frame. I have not shot any of the small XR3 "colt" type grip frames, only the new model grip frame. It just doesn't agree with my hand. SBH style or Bisley for me thanks!

Wonder if Jack Huntington could do his magic to an aluminum BH grip frame?

Interesting article on the sixgun forum where I stole this pic comparing a Ruger Bisley, FA, and a Jack Huntington modified BFR (like a SBH grip frame that has been modified):

http://www.singleactions.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=sas&action=display&thread=9039

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c148/snowwolfe/grips3.jpg

Jack might get to meet my .500JRH BFR at some point.

[44man]

I've never been a fan of the standard blackhawk grip frame. I have not shot any of the small XR3 "colt" type grip frames, only the new model grip frame. It just doesn't agree with my hand. SBH style or Bisley for me thanks!

Wonder if Jack Huntington could do his magic to an aluminum BH grip frame?

Interesting article on the sixgun forum where I stole this pic comparing a Ruger Bisley, FA, and a Jack Huntington modified BFR (like a SBH grip frame that has been modified):

http://www.singleactions.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=sas&action=display&thread=9039

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c148/snowwolfe/grips3.jpg

Jack might get to meet my .500JRH BFR at some point.
Jack might just have the very best. The back top of the grip is thick to prevent roll and there is space behind the guard. I held one and it felt great.