Is Vihtavuori Powder Worth The Extra Scratch...

[ArrowJ]

I was researching low flash powders for 357 Sig, and came across a list that included:

Accurate Arms #7
Hodgdon HS-6
Hodgdon Universal Clays
Vihtavuori N350

The Vihtavuori powder is almost twice the price, but I am willing to pay if it is worth it. Opinions?


http://highcaliberguns.com
http://thesitterdowners.com

[felix]

Only in BR class of guns. In pistolas, it's a question mark. ... felix

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

I like it in my auto loaders as it is a clean burning powder

[jmorris]

Nothing cleaner than VV powders. 350 is a little slow for lowest flash.

N310 or N320 are what I use.

[canyon-ghost]

It's excellent Finnish made powder. It excels in pistols that use hunting rounds and is quite at home with j-word projectiles.

[rintinglen]

I can't bring myself to spend that much for a pound of powder.

Hereabouts, VV runs 39.99 a pound, while Alliant and WW powders run 20-25 dollars a pound. I don't shoot anything wherein low flash plays a part, so I have no interest in that aspect. They are reputedly very clean burning, but 18 dollars buys a lot of Hoppe's No. 9. Then too, availability is spotty here in So Cal. Having been disappointed in years gone bye when a foreign powder worked great and then disappeared, I prefer to dance with the ones who brought me (Norma MRP, anyone?).

FWIW, the only 357 SIG ammo I have loaded was for a friend, and it was 124 grain jacketed HP's over the then-new Alliant Power Pistol. I don't have my notes in the house, but the load came off Alliant's web site and worked well..

[Moonman]

Gentlemen,

Please stay on point, the OP's question was for your opinions on VV powders, He stated HE WAS WILL TO PAY THE $$$$ PRICE FOR THEM.

[barrybrice]

I use N330 for a 9mm suppressed Glock and will not use anything else. It is worth the price. It is the only powder that does not cover my arms and face with unspent powder using a suppressor.

[geargnasher]

Gentlemen,

Please stay on point, the OP's question was for your opinions on VV powders, He stated HE WAS WILL TO PAY THE $$$$ PRICE FOR THEM.

Unless someone deleted a post, they all look pretty much directly on topic to me, not sure why the fuss.

I concur with Felix. VV makes excellent powders, properly applied, in any gun, but you probably will be wasting the benefit unless using a bench rifle or very accurate sporter that can tell the difference.

Gear

[ArrowJ]

Thank you guys! I guess the best thing to do is get a pound of VV and a pound of AA and Hodgdon and see how close they are. I am really wanting to keep the muzzle flash under control on the 357 Sig. I have seen some videos with huge flash.

Another interesting thing is that the VV N1xx (do not have the manual with me) load listed in Speer is actually compressed for the maximum load. Do a lot of 357 sig loads come close to filling the case?


http://highcaliberguns.com
http://thesitterdowners.com

[Whistler]

N110 is the fastest (burning rate wise) rifle powder they have, it really likes to be compressed. 105-110% case fill is a good start for any magnum revolver.

N105 on the other hand is the slowest pistol powder. It does not like to be compressed (in most cases), but is excellent with 80-95% fill rate in both .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum, as well as 9x19mm major loads and for .38 Super with compensators. But watch those loading charts first!

So here's some fun stuff to know...
The Vihtavuori powders are manufactured in Sweden. They are then sent to Finland to be labeled. You guys see it as a premium powder (which it is) that cost way more than anything else. In Sweden we pay $54USD per pound for the Vihtavuori powders ($45USD per pound when buying more than 5 pounds) and the American powders cost $55-65USD per pound.

In Sweden Vithavuori and the French Vectan powders (Nobel Sport) are the most common for pistol/revolvers and the Swedish powder Norma for rifles.

[LUBEDUDE]

There has to be more to it than shipping the powder to Finland for labeling. Otherwise, the labels can be be shipped to Sweden.
It might have to be with finding a loop in the import laws - for instance into the U.S. which is probably a larger market than Sweden or even Europe, which is why it cost less here.

One example - one product I deal in is made in Italy. It constantly gets held up in customs and we have trouble getting it over here in the U.S.
Now, Italy, sends the product to Japan to be assembled and it has no problems passing customs entering the U.S. . Why? I don't know.

Maybe something similar with VV powder?

[shooter93]

watch for sales at places like Mid-south. They had a sale last year and VV powders were barely more than a buck a pound more than IMR. Cleanest powders I've ever used but I'm still using Unique in pistols. I've been experimenting with VV in rifles.

[Moondawg]

I used VV for many years in my BR rifles, VV 133 was/is the standard for 6PPC. It is also sensative to heat and huminity changes. Some of us BR rebels found out that we could get the same level of accuracy with Hodgen Benchmark, and it was not near as sensative to temp/huminity changes, also cheaper and easier to obtain. VV powders clean burning?? I dunno, in BR we clean every 10-15 rounds no matter what powder is used.

I have used some of the VV powders in 9mm, 357M and 45acp. I didn't find they did anything anybetter than a more inexpensive American powder that is usually easier to obtain. Clean burning, I have shot well over a hundred rounds through a pistol in IPSC matchs using unique, which generally is not real clean burning. It never locked my pisto up. How clean do you need, and how many rounds do you plan to shoot before you clean your pistol. If you are shooting cast boolits, nothing is clean burning.

[Stampede]

I use VV powders primairly, because the Amercian powders cost about twice as much as the VV powders do over here. It's just the other way around. There is a VV powder for every reloading job. I mainly use for revolvers the N-110, for pistol N-320 and for rifle the N-160, just to name a couple examples. If you need some in-detail reloading data on the VV powders just let me know by sending me a message.

Stampede

[Mk42gunner]

I admit I haven't looked at VV powders in several years; but when I was stationed in Fallon I was shocked at the difference in price (almost double) so I looked for reasons why.

The VV powder that I have seen was not packaged in one pound cans, but in one kilo containers. This brought the price more in line with the other manufacturers one pound cans.

Robert

[PbHurler]

I like it in my auto loaders as it is a clean burning powder

+100!

It was suggested by a competition shooter I know to try VV N310 for my 45 ACP rounds. I tried it, and I quickly settled on it as my go-to powder for 200gr SWC target loads. Unbelievably clean powder! I also use N320 for my 230gr RN loads both cast and dare I say, jacketed loads.

For me, I don't mind the extra cost, I dont shoot a "whole lot" of 45ACP, but the barrel conditions are beautiful and accuracy is definitely there.

[jmorris]

Powder price is of little concern to me with pistol loads. It doesn't really effect my wallet at the end of the day.

For example one of my load that I use VV N310 in uses $.0125 worth of powder per load.

If I use titegroup powder for each round is $.01.

Not going to send Jr to college saving two tenths of a cent.

[1hole]

"Is Vihtavuori Powder Worth The Extra Scratch... "

Those who buy it think so. Others disagree. ??

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I've found other powders made by other manufacturers that were just as clean burning, accurate and generally less expensive. Not saying I wouldn't use VV, but since I'm reloading to spend less on shooting components per cartridge and shoot more, the cost is a consideration.

[jmorris]

I've found other powders made by other manufacturers that were just as clean burning

Well, don't hold out on us.

[xring1]

I don't know about pistols but V N-140 is the best powder I have run in a 308...very consistent accuracy over a wide range of bullets .

[km101]

I cant justify the extra cost of VV powders, since I havent found them to be any more accurate in my guns than Accurate, Winchester or Hodgdon powders. Low flash is not an issue for me, and as for clean burning, I have shot Unique for years in my .45's so I am used to cleaning dirty guns anyway. :) I dont think they are worth the extra, so I dont use them. Just my 2 cents.

[r1kk1]

133 is the powder of choice for two cartridges I shoot. I have favorites from every manufacturer including some surplus goodies. I get quite a few powders from powder valley, Jeff Bartlett and mid south. I really like vita powders. Really do. I going to try tin star for some projects. My best loads work out cheaper than factory stuff. If I can find an equivalent load.

Take care

r1kk1

[felix]

It's getting harder and harder to distinguish between "brands" and "numbers" based upon all the new powders now available. It seems there are really no trade secrets even as stated as such on the MSDS sheets. For example of secrets, really clean nitrocellulose based powders are made to burn clean with 'X', and really progressive powders are made with a certain percentage of 'Y'. However, what is secret is the amount of each constituent within the nitrocellulose complex to obtain certain acceleration curve with a certain payload. This whole thing has become very complicated because of the world competition between the manufacturers to get contracts with the ammo folks. It's looking like gunpowder is nothing more than granular gasoline and price fixing is here to stay. To say the least, I'm discusted. ... felix

[max it]

HI Ya, Good discussion. I hope my post gets an answer. I bought my first ever N320 hoping for more accuracy. I am shooting 147gn truncated cone moly coated 9mm for steel competition. So far I have not found a load that works. All I get is either keyholing at 23 yards or failure to feed at the low end of the powder usange 3.2-3.7gn. I am shooting both a xd9 and a cz75. Does this stuff really work?
much obliged,
Max

[Whistler]

Too fast powder for such a heavy bullet in my opinion. Try 3.8-4.0gn N340.

N320 is a wonderful powder for .38 Special and .45 ACP, as well as with light to medium weight bullets in 9x19mm. Above 125gn in 9x19mm I would use N330 or N340.

[Lloyd Smale]

back a few years ago i got serious with finding the best load for 3 k framed smiths. Out of that experience i came out with one across the board standout and that was vit 310. It shot best in all three smiths. Problem is it was tough to find and expensive when i did find it so i went back to good old bullseye. I might give up an 1/8 of an inch in groups size but for half the price i can live with that.

[Dannix]

I'm just a young grasshopper, but I'm rather disappointed in my attempts with AA#7 in 9x19mm. I read somewhere it needs a bit more pressure than non "major" 9mm loads to really excel, and 9x23Winchester was an example of a cartridge where it shines. For 357 Sig, I've heard good things about AA#9 and compressed loads, but I'm not sure how low-flash it would be.
http://www.handguninfo.com/Archive/www.Pete-357.com/rel.357.no9.htm

I'm using Ramshot Silhouette for Miha 124grn HP and 140grn FN boolits, but I've predetermined N340 will be on the next Powder Valley purchase.

[jmorris]

Too fast powder for such a heavy bullet in my opinion. Try 3.8-4.0gn N340.

I use N310 with 147's and have for years, the problem is likely your bullet.

[max it]

I use N310 with 147's and have for years, the problem is likely your bullet.

Hi Ya, likely the bullet. I have to seat deep to cycle well. about 1.058" works well. maybe too much pressure? and the boolit is moly coated from bear creek, a california caster. i Had to stop casting myself; 20 d/mll blood lead level, hasnt gone down yet, 6 mos.

Much obliged,

Max

[jcwit]

I have a bud that swears by VV. He uses it in Benchrest, 6 BPR, etc.

The only rifle I shoot for precision accuracy is a 700VLS in .223 with slow twist. I've every load imeginall with his VV, don't remember the # tho. I always return to Accurate 2015 for 1 hole groups at 100 yds.

[garym1a2]

If you want low flash powders I would think the faster burn rates make a difference. I would try WST and BE, If you want to make major power factor I suggest trying the powders that get their with the preformance you want and than pick the lowest flash of the group.

[Petander]

So here's some fun stuff to know...
The Vihtavuori powders are manufactured in Sweden. They are then sent to Finland to be labeled.

Gotta love the Internet. I live one hour drive from the Vihtavuori factory. Last time I talked to them some weeks ago,they were still busy making gunpowder.

233191

[Meatpuppet]

VV powders are worth the extra scratch... If you are building premium loads.

9mm 147gr coated lead and VV N320 were made for each other. .357 Maximum and VV N350, N110 or Tin Star depending on the bullet weight and if Suppressed. 458 SOCOM with N110, N350, 3N38 or Tin Star depending on weight, suppressed or full power.....

However, I've found Alliant Sport Pistol is a really nice alternative in pistol cartridges.

[ioon44]

I have been using VV N310 for my .45 ACP 1911's for IDPA matches and it is the cleanest powder I have used. I shoot 200gr swc cast out of coww with some tin added, then Hi-Tek coated. I also like the way it drops with my 550, very accurate weights and I check the powder weight often when reloading.

[marek313]

I dont buy the VV hype. There are some dirty powders but I found that in most cases light loads and improper crimp will make a dirty gun. If you have a lot of unburned powder then something is not right with your load. As mentioned maybe in BR scenario VV might be worth it but otherwise I will stick with Hodgon, Win or even Vectan which you can still find around $13/lb if you look around. I've been loading all my handguns lately with Vectan G3 and A0 without any problems.

[244]

I have no experience with VV powders, but can confirm that Ramshot Silhouette is a flash suppressed powder. It needs to be run at higher pressures to keep from leaving granules though. Lots of granules with low pressure rounds (.38 Spl, .45 ACP), but excellent performance in 9mm and .40 S&W. I'm sure it will work well in .357 Sig as it is a high pressure cartridge too.

http://www.ramshot.com/products/handgun/?view=7&product=Silhouette

[Big Wes]

I was researching low flash powders for 357 Sig, and came across a list that included:

Accurate Arms #7
Hodgdon HS-6
Hodgdon Universal Clays
Vihtavuori N350

The Vihtavuori powder is almost twice the price, but I am willing to pay if it is worth it. Opinions?


http://highcaliberguns.com
http://thesitterdowners.com

Try AA#9 my go to powder for 357 Sig

[kevin c]

Resurrection #2:

N320 is my choice for 147 grain HiTek cast loads shot in volume for action pistol. I can shoot 30K rounds of that load a year and the Glocks I shoot them through run without hiccups between detail stripping and cleaning done every 10K rounds with only a little lube applied between.

My particular application doesn't need benchrest/precision accuracy but I believe the potential is there: I get single digit SD's with charges thrown from a standard Dillon measure (the short extruded grains meter extremely well).

Since my brass is free, the powder is the second least expensive component in my reloads. Using jmorris' two tenth's of a cent difference per charge, those 30K rounds cost me an extra $60 a year, or only an additional forty cents a match or practice session. Of course, a rifle round will have a much higher per round additional cost for the propellant, but with fewer rounds fired, the cost per match or per year might still be in the same ballpark as mine.

So, yeah, I use and will continue to use VV powders so long as I can get them (Hodgdon Clays and Universal Clays are powders that I use, but less often; being flake powders they don't meter quite as consistently as VV, and the powders seem to have changed a bit since the plant fire).