Furnace Recomendations - ladleing

[XTR]

I'm in the beginnings of my research to start casting. I've been reading what I can here about furnaces and casting. My reason for getting into casting will be to make big 500+gr long range bullets for my Sharps. Based on my reading I understand that the best way to cast big bullets is with a ladle.

Everything I've read says that the RCBS furnace is about the best out there, but it's set up as a bottom pour, which I probably wont want to use for my bullets. Is there a better option for ladle pours or does the RCBS work well with a ladle too? I don't want to say "price is no object", but I also understand "buy once, cry once" too. Temperature stability and durability are more important to me than price.

[Baja_Traveler]

The best out there is a Waage K4757 20lb pot - around $160 from Waage.

It's not in their online catalog - they make them special for the BPCR shooters, but give them a call and they will send one out.

[GLL]

I agree with BT ! The Waage K4757 is the best 20 pound ladle pot available. I own several !

Order directly from Waage for the best price. Great people to deal with!

http://www.waage.com/

Jerry

A new one before it got covered in alloy ! :)
http://www.fototime.com/DF1271887CEBA67/orig.jpg

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Its a remote possibility, but a possible suggestion nevertheless. Look around for a Saeco Model T34...made quite some time ago. Its not a bottom pour, has a thermo stat and holds 20 +pounds. Very rugged construction....I've had one since the sixties and it has never missed a beat. No harm in looking...you never know. LLS

[dnmccoy]

Forgive my ignorance, as I am very new, but what makes the Waage better than say a Lee or Lyman ladle pot?

[imashooter2]

Materials, fit, finish and precision. The same sort of things that make a Rolls Royce better than a Chevy.

That said, lots of people are perfectly happy with their Chevy.

[GLL]

Although I am a VERY big fan of the Waage K4757 (I only ladle pour) the LEE 20-pound pot would work just fine and it is very reasonably priced !

Jerry

[jethunter]

I ladle from a Lee 20 lb pot. It works Ok for everything I've done. If you're going to cast very much then IMO the 10 lb pots are too small - just when you get everything working smoothly you have to stop casting and wait for more lead to melt.

[canyon-ghost]

I'm still using a couple of little Lyman Mini-mag pots. No temp control, just a heating element. They work for any alloy and my little two-cavity molds.

I shoot several calibers and single stage too.

Ron

[GLL]

Here is one you do not see often but it is an outstanding ladle pot ! When RCBS bought Pro-Melt I am not sure if they ever continued to produce this model. It was my very first pot and I still use it for linotype.

http://www.fototime.com/5E9D62857295B91/orig.jpg

Jerry

[cajun shooter]

DnMcCoy, If you read the original OP, the very last line states that he is looking for quality and that cost is not a problem.
I've casted since 1970 and yes I've purchased and used Lee products. They allow a person to try something with out a huge cash flow. They are how ever very poorly designed when it comes to materials used. The heat control is not a real thermostat but a much cheaper rheostat that will not give you a constant alloy temperature no matter how hard you try.
The pot and frame are of cheap aluminum that uses too small sheet metal screws that strip out.
I had more than one 20 pound dump it's entire contents of 700 degree alloy over my bench and me.
The Wagge 4757 is the best ladle pot available and will last you a lifetime. You also just set the real thermostat and pour all you want to without having to chase the correct alloy temperature all day.
I have used one for over 5 years now along with my RCBS Pro Melt and refuse to ever have a Lee furnace on my bench again.

[Jeff82]

It just depends on how much you want to spend. I pretty basic Lee pot will work well. I can't really comment on the various more expensive options, but I'm sure you get what you pay for.

I used to make 45-70 405 grain bullets using a small Lee four pound pot, and still use the smaller pot for most of my ladle casting as it minimizes shoulder strain. I just pour molten lead from my 20-lbs pot into the smaller pot and keep casting.

You'll probably want to invest in a 20-lbs pot, since it will allow you to cast faster. It will also allow you to mix larger quantities of lead and alloys, which is a limitation of smaller pots. The 20-lbs/4-lbs pot combination has worked well for me, and it evolved by accident. The net cost for both pots was about $90.

Hope this helps.

[Moonman]

Been using a WAAGE to ladle cast for a couple days.

This Pot is GREAT if you can afford it, the Waage holds
and controls the heat very nicely.

[Horace]

I am using a Rapine stainless steel pot that looks like a Waage,a very good pot.

Horace

[Hastings]

They are how ever very poorly designed when it comes to materials used. The heat control is not a real thermostat but a much cheaper rheostat that will not give you a constant alloy temperature no matter how hard you try.

My 20# Lee magnum melter made for ladling contains a thermostat (part #EL3466). Perhaps some Lee melters do use rheostats instead since I haven't tried them all. The 20# Lee MM is either off, or on. There is no between settings, and you can actually hear it turn on when it senses your alloy getting too cool. I found it to be a fairly safe and sturdy unit with a large enough base, and I've never found anything about it that would present such a serious safety issue as spilling its contents with normal use. I hope you were ok though.

The biggest problem with the Lee MM is that the thermostat's positioning allows ambient temperature to affect it. In other words the thermostat thinks that the alloy is colder in below zero temperatures and will make your alloy much too hot compared to the same setting used in 90 degree weather. But you learn where to set it for differing ambient temperatures with experience. The effect also happens as the alloy level goes from full to less than halfway full. Again, you learn how adjust that knob with experience. I've probably cast well over 100,000 boolits with that Lee MM. It still works fine.

Edit: I should add that the other thing I don't like about the 20# Lee pot is that it's only 700 Watts. I find it takes more than the 20 minutes advertised to melt a full pot from a cold start - likely closer to 1/2 hour. Also the weak wattage means that adding even a couple small muffin tin ingots to half a pot full means a 5 to 10 minute wait before you can start casting again.

[gofastman]

I dont want to get your threat off topic, but I wish I had known about PID controllers (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=115724) when I had started casting, they really make the process more enjoyable and they are worth every penny!
I got my kit from this guy (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?u=10248), I got the build-it-yourself kit and it was very straightforward, he also makes ready to go units

(I use a Lee pot, they have a pathetic temperature control. I have no idea who well the Waage pots work so you may not "need" a PID with them)

[montana_charlie]

I have never owned a Lee pot. But I strongly doubt that any of them was ever produced using a rheostat as a heat control.
It simply wouldn't be electronically logical.

Currently, Lee's least expensive pot uses this eight dollar item to control it's temperature.

http://leeprecision.com/images/P/p-1103.jpg
http://leeprecision.com/110v-Thermostat.html

Lee calls the part a 'thermostat', and a close look at the elements in it's construction supports that identification. It certainly bears no resemblence to a rheostat.
However, the thermostat Lee uses does not appear to have an ability to be 'calibrated'.

Besides being well-constructed, the Waage pot has a thermostat which can be calibrated.
That is ... an adjuster is present which allows the temperature of the molten metal to coincide with the setting of the knob.

I have mine adjusted so that a knob position of '7' also causes the metal to be held at 700 degrees.

CM

[Moonman]

The '7' setting on my Waage Pots HOLDS a 700 degrees melt temperature.:drinks:

[Bullet Caster]

What do the Waage pots run? Dollar wise, I mean. Inquiring minds want to know. Before I decide on an electric pot, I need information. I've been ladle casting since I started out a year or so ago, on my Coleman camp stove.

I'm torn between a turkey fryer burner and an electric pot. I couldn't find a Waage pot listed on their site so I do not know how much they run. Thanks. BC

[kitsap]

What do the Waage pots run? Dollar wise, I mean. Inquiring minds want to know. Before I decide on an electric pot, I need information. I've been ladle casting since I started out a year or so ago, on my Coleman camp stove.

I'm torn between a turkey fryer burner and an electric pot. I couldn't find a Waage pot listed on their site so I do not know how much they run. Thanks. BC


For a general idea try this link: http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=162964&CAT=3902

The direct from the manufacturer prices may or may not be lower.

DougF

[tonyjones]

BC,

The last time I checked the Waage K4757 was $162 + $25 S&H.

Tony

[Moonman]

I ordered my Waage pot DIRECTLY FROM THE MANUFACTURER.

[bwgdog]

Also ordered mine direct-phoned and used cc-shipped in bullet proof box-quality pot.

[Bullet Caster]

Thanks guys, for the information. This will enable me to make a more informed choice. BC

[munchie3409]

Great thread since I'm in the beginning stages of starting to cast.

[XTR]

Just called and ordered my Waage K4757. Now I've got to go find something to melt in it.

At $162, there really isn't any question. If this thing lives up to it's reputation I don't see why anyone gets anything else. It certainly shouldn't be price. I spend that a month on Berger bullets for F-TR matches every month from April till October.

[weasel 21]

Just ordered today-$162 + $25 s&h

[PB234]

I just ordered a Waage pot number K-4757. Currently they are $162 + $25 shipping and handling direct from Waage. I enjoyed my phone conversation so much with Marc Waage that I am placing his phone number here: (908) 245-9363. He takes credit cards, but I sent him a check so that he does not have to pay the 4% the card company charges. He does not advertise. Word of mouth keeps him busy. If you want one now is a good time to get it while you can. It was a conversation with a gentleman. If he were in my neck of the woods I'd take him out for lunch.