sw 29 inaccurate

[mt bwana]

i have a sw 29 44 mag that is most inaccurate gun i own. it shoots patterns not groups. slugged chambers measure 433. barrel five groove cant measure. the barrel is thread choked. what to do? taylor throat? new cylinder? fire lap? trade to some unsuccuspecting person? throw in the river?

[geargnasher]

What to do? Shoot factory jacketed loads for groups, use seveal brands. If ok per your standards, proceed: After shooting lead, observe barrel fouling and/or measure thread choke to determine if action is necessary. Modify reloading dies/moulds to operate at cylinder specs. Match alloy to powder pressure, burn rate, and lube, not necessarily in that order.

Or, give it to me. :bigsmyl2:

Gear

[x101airborne]

I would roll some soft boolits in lapping compound and shoot them. Lap the constriction out. Then get a boolit that seats out long enough to just kiss the throat.

[geargnasher]

The mentioned constriction may or may not be a significant problem, we don't know at this point. The main issue is that few of the important particulars were mentioned, so we don't have much to go on.

Gear

[Char-Gar]

A couple of thoughts on the aforementoned Smith and Wesson 29

1. .433 charge hole throats are pretty much standard for 29s of a couple of decades ago and not much of a concern. I have several Smith 44s that large that shoot great. I have a .432 custom sizing die and that fixes that problem. You do need to find a mold that cast bullets .432. I have several that will and several that won't.

2. I don't worry much about these constrictions in the breech end of the barrel caused by torquing the barrel into the frame. Just about every Smith and Wesson on the planet has these and most often they don't cause any problems. I have several Smith 44s with these and will still shoot far better than I can hold and I am a pretty decent pistol shot. I also have Smith 38s and 45s of which the same can be said.

So thus far, the OP has not stated anything that I see as a problem to fret about. He states the pistol is inaccuate but there could be many reasons for his lack of satisfaction at this point that would not relate to his supposed issues with the handgun.

We will see if he is forthcoming with enough information to be of assistance.

[Char-Gar]

I would roll some soft boolits in lapping compound and shoot them. Lap the constriction out. Then get a boolit that seats out long enough to just kiss the throat.

Please tell me how you seat bullets in a sixgun out long enough to just kiss the throat?

[GLL]

Which model 29 do you have? 29-2, 29-3, etc. ? Is it one of the recent guns with the new style barrels?
What size/style bullets are you shooting? Alloy? Load?

If you choose the river route please tell me the time and which bridge you will be on so I can have my net ready! ;) It is worth a drive to Montana to get a nice 4" 29-2 ! :) :)

Jerry

[Swede44mag]

Try shooting factory ammo if it still dosent group call the factory you may need to send it in for an adjustment. I bought a new S&W 629 many years it would group about the size of a 5gal bucket at 25yrds. I took it back to where I bought it and traded for a Colt Goverment .45.

Good luck but don't toss it in the lake even a bad trade would be better than no dollars for a river/lake trade.

Good luck

[44man]

I never had a problem with a 29, had 5 or 6, can't remember. All would do 1/2" at 50 but they are grip sensitive and groups could move 10" on the target. A grip change between shots meant a 10" group. If the exact same grip is taken it would be 1/2" but never if if the hold has any change. It is ounces or a few thousandths in hand position.
It might be just you like it was me. I sold all of mine for that reason.
I had the most accurate 29's ever but could not score at IHMSA with any. Had to ground the gun so targets could be set and I would miss the next 5 shots.
The other grip that bothers me is a Bisley. The RH is bad, the SRH just needs a firm hold, the hog leg can be shifted.
Sounds silly but it is true.

[Char-Gar]

I am something of a Smith and Wesson nut and even have the logo tatooed on my ankle. Over my lifetime, I have owned and shot several hundred Smith and Wesson DA sixguns of all vintages and still have a couple of dozen at this time.

I have never owned a single one of these that would not shoot very well with cast bullet. They can have their quirks and pecularities to be certain, but each one perform well once you figure it out. Some are indeed better than others, and I would not call the fellow a liar that got one that was junk, but a junk Smith has never crossed my path.

The most persistance problem I had with some of them was leading due to a rough bore that contained micro-burrs. Once removed, these barrels stopped leading. No amount of handloading tricks would cure these problem sixguns, it took a deburring of the inside of the barrel to do the job.

Training dogs, cats and horses all take patience and know how. Most people lack one or both of these. The same can be said for getting the reticent Smith and Wesson to shoot well. Folks give up way to soon and allow a metal object to defeat them.

[375RUGER]

Please tell me how you seat bullets in a sixgun out long enough to just kiss the throat?

He is talking of the cylinder throat, not the forcing cone. Cylinder throat being the area that you measure when you slug the chambers of the cylinder.
Kissing the throat he means like in this pic.

[Char-Gar]

I never had a problem with a 29, had 5 or 6, can't remember. All would do 1/2" at 50 but they are grip sensitive and groups could move 10" on the target. A grip change between shots meant a 10" group. If the exact same grip is taken it would be 1/2" but never if if the hold has any change. It is ounces or a few thousandths in hand position.
It might be just you like it was me. I sold all of mine for that reason.
I had the most accurate 29's ever but could not score at IHMSA with any. Had to ground the gun so targets could be set and I would miss the next 5 shots.
The other grip that bothers me is a Bisley. The RH is bad, the SRH just needs a firm hold, the hog leg can be shifted.
Sounds silly but it is true.

Doesn't sound silly in the least and is true. I can shoot a Colt better than a Smith, a K frame Smith better than an N frame and a DA anything better than a SA anything for just this same reason. The only significant contact with the holding platform of a handgun is the hand or hands and this is pretty puny compared to a rifle. Even minor changes can and will show up on the target.

[JesterGrin_1]

This thread has little information or feedback from the OP.

It is almost like getting a call from someone saying help I have broken down come get me I am near the McDonald s then hangs up lol.

Then you have to wait for them to call back to tell you which McDonalds lol. :)

[x101airborne]

He is talking of the cylinder throat, not the forcing cone. Cylinder throat being the area that you measure when you slug the chambers of the cylinder.
Kissing the throat he means like in this pic.


I am just going to say "thank you" and move on.

[geargnasher]

Ok, so the OP dropped by a few minutes ago and didn't give any more info. What's up with that?

Gear

[JesterGrin_1]

Ok maybe I was a bit fast on the trigger lol. I know I know do not yank Squeeze :)

[mt bwana]

im new at this computor said i was not authorized the gun is a 29 3 i have had for over 30 years. i have tried several cast bullets 200 lee 429241 k 260 wfn lbt lots of different powder 2400 unique aa9 universal 231 etc. nothing seems to work in this gun. i have not tried to many j words tho. i also shoot just fine with my 686 ruger 22 and my new blackhawk 44 spcl so its not my shooting maybe

[geargnasher]

Enable cookies, and when you log in, check the box that says "remember me?", which will plant a cookie on your computer that will keep you logged in for as long as you want rather than kicking you out ever 15 minutes or so.

As for your pistola, check out the link in the sticky "from ingot to target" that CB Rick posted in this section of the forum, it will give you all the gory details you need to know to load and shoot cast in a revolver, and along the way you might discover what to look for if there are some real mechanical issues causing your troubles.

Gear

[mt bwana]

thanks gearnasher for comments i am closer to not hitting the five gallon bucket than the 1/2 inch group at 50 yds. i will try the jacket bullets and if not satisfied to the gunshow it goes

[gray wolf]

That pistol is going down the road----betcha

[mooko]

MT Bwana;

I lived in Great Falls for over 30 years until I had to move to Mudhole, MS to take care of aging mothers. You are truly fortunate.
Anyway, I have long been a S&W fan. My favorite is my old 1950 Target in 44 Special. My standard load is Keith's 16.5 gr 2400 and 429421. Always shot great.
It was when I got back into single actions that I found that loading can be touchy with some. I always used linotype in the Smith, but I found that most of the SA 44 Specials wanted a softer bullet so that they could obturate. That cured all my leading problems in all my handguns. In 44 Mag, I use 20.0 of AA#9 and 429421. No lead at 1300+. But I don't size them, and I lube with Lee Liquid Alox.
Also, I use a good, tight roll crimp.
Your throats are a bit large. On my 1950, and indeed all my SA's, the throats are .430. However, a bullet of between 12 and 14 Brinnell hardness should work well. I bought a Lee lead hardness tester to check that sort of thing.
One more thing that should not be an iten with the S&W would be cylinder alignment. Have you checked that? Or crane alignment?
Don't give up on it. The problem is most likely something simple. The 29 is the second most beautiful revolver ever. Of course, the first is the 1950 Target.

Mike

[GBertolet]

Mt Bwana, I have a 29-2 that has .433 cylinder throats also. I have aquired three different molds for this gun, all which cast oversize. Proper fit to the cylinder throats is critical for accuracy and elimination of leading. You can improve this fit somewhat, by shooting your bullets unsized and lubed with Liquid Alox, which will temporarily add to the diameter of the bullets on their trip through the cylinder throats. If your expander die is not large enough, in seating your bullets, you can actually swage them down. Most factory expanders are .427 - .428, in deference to use of jacketed bullets, (usually 1 to 2 thousandth under jacketed bullet diameter). I made my own expander at .4315. Depending on how hard you are driving the bullets, a softer alloy might help, as it will slug up easier upon firing to cylinder throat size.
There are two other possible gun problems that might cause your problem. The forcing cone at the rear of the barrel may need to be recut, or the barrel recrowned. Both can affect accuracy. Both relatively inexpensive fixes.
One final thought, in a recent issue of Handloader Magazine, Mike Venterino did tests on various revolvers with oversize cylinder throats, and found round nose bullets frequently shot far better. He theorized that after bullets passed through the oversized cylinder throats, they were cockeyed and the RN bullets self centered in the forcing cone better than the SWC bullets.
Please excuse my ramblings, as I threw a lot of stuff out here. I hope something here might help you.

[44man]

I really miss Mike here. We had a few issues over time but I like the man. Where has he been?
He is correct about nose alignment. He is correct about the semi wad cutter and wad cutter.

[44man]

thanks gearnasher for comments i am closer to not hitting the five gallon bucket than the 1/2 inch group at 50 yds. i will try the jacket bullets and if not satisfied to the gunshow it goes
Yeah, my 29's were the old models, first I bought was 1956. S&W screws up too just like everyone else and the newer ones seem to have more mechanical problems.
Once they had cylinders unlock and go backwards but I never had that. It was the cylinder stop spring so they enhanced the gun and was it just a stronger spring???
The front cylinder lock pin would peen from recoil and prevent you from opening the cylinder so did they just make it harder????
Little stuff with a great gun. But they have failures just like those $2500 revolvers.
You might have a lemon.
I really did shoot 1/2" groups at 50 yards with mine, open sights from Creedmore. I had super eyesight.
The long barrel silhouette model was accurate but the silly front sight was a failure just like the TC sights.
I have had many guns that would never shoot, they just went away.

[mt bwana]

cylinder or crane misalignment . crown or forcing cone i have not looked into any of these possabilitys. they look like a trip to a gunsmith. i noticed a very small bit of leading at the start of the rifling but not much

[mt bwana]

ventrino has some articles in the latest issue of handgunner magazine. i enjoy reading all he writes

[44man]

ventrino has some articles in the latest issue of handgunner magazine. i enjoy reading all he writes
Mike is a good man, we came to terms I hope.
He never had a swelled head, just a normal fellow.
I wish he would come back. I also read all he writes.

[3006guns]

Just going by memory here, but wasn't there a long post about a S&W forcing cone issue? Seems to me that the factory had changed their method of machining resulting in a horrible looking throat, but was acceptable by their standards. Only problem was, it wouldn't shoot lead worth a hoot.

I believe it was just over a year ago but I don't remember the post subject heading..........

[44man]

Just going by memory here, but wasn't there a long post about a S&W forcing cone issue? Seems to me that the factory had changed their method of machining resulting in a horrible looking throat, but was acceptable by their standards. Only problem was, it wouldn't shoot lead worth a hoot.

I believe it was just over a year ago but I don't remember the post subject heading..........
I did not see that. Gun makers do not like handloads or lead anyway.
Most revolver makers do not care about accuracy either, it is a "go bang" close range thing.
S&W has tried with the .460 and .500 but have had barrels fall off and guns doubling.
Twist direction should tighten the barrel, not unscrew it. A barrel should never be so hard it breaks either.
I understand even Ruger had a few barrel problems.

[340six]

I must be lucky back when the introduced the 29 classic i got one to pig hunt and target shoot so got a big one all black as shown.
I cast with a used ebay Lyman mould 215 grains with soft lead 10 BHN or so that was medical waste containers that they put the shot stiff in incase it brakes in transport
it is 96-2-2
had a size die of 429 so tried it and it works great
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee87/fast340six/Colt%20Ace/380-44-1_26232909.jpg

[bobthenailer]

Ive owned around 8 different S&W 44 mags not counting a few other brands and ony 2 needed cast bullets sized @ .433 dia because of large cyl throats to shoot well . All the others shot well with boolets sized @ .430 dia but also had smaller chamber throats.

[44man]

I miss all of mine but it was always the same problem. When I wanted something new I had to sell other guns. :groner: