.303 but what is it?

[gkainz]

I got this rifle many years ago from a shipmate in the Navy as payment for a debt. Other than it being a .303 ... what is it?

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/DBAPilotDad/303brit/166.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/DBAPilotDad/303brit/168.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/DBAPilotDad/303brit/169.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/DBAPilotDad/303brit/173.jpg

[JeffinNZ]

That is a No5 Lee Enfield (judging by the cut outs on the barrel) that has had the butt socket removed to allow for a one piece stock. Very well done and I have seen only one other.

[gwpercle]

That is a whole hog sporter job on a british enfield. When you go to all the trouble to convert it to one piece stock , have sporting iron sights and scope sight mounted, bolt altered , magazine is reworked so that it's flush with or concealed by that nice walnut stock. ( that white tip looks like one I had from Herter's ). Then pay to have it reblued... somebody spent a few bucks on this job.

I had heard of sporterizing to this extent but have never seen one taken this far. Pretty darn impressive.... does it shoot as good as it looks ?

gary

[gkainz]

It shoots very well ... ok, well enough to take a whitetail buck in the Black Hills of South Dakota back in the early 80's - the last time I shot it. Guess I'll have to run it out to the range and see how it groups.

The magazine well has a Winchester model 70 style floorplate with spring and follower attached...in fact it looks exactly like my 70, now that I think about it.

There's a 3 digit number (1xx) on the barrel flats just ahead of the receiver (serial number of 3 digits - doesn't seem likely) and then an inverted capital T just ahead of that. The bolt has a 4 digit serial number (2xxx).

Where else should there be a serial number, since the side bands were cut off?

[Four Fingers of Death]

I am not real keen on the forend cap, but that is one seriously high dollar conversion (why you would go to all that trouble is beyond me). I suppose if you really liked the operation of the Lee Enfield action, which is odd to most people, but has some very good points if you can get you head past objections about the cock on closing which most people dislike, but was used by the Brits to speed up operation of the bolt and increase firepower.

I personally prefer the 10 shot mag and most of the conversions to a smaller mag leave you with an odd shaped trigger guard, but your one is excellent. Serious bit of metalsmithing involved there.

Definetly a keeper.

[Idaho Mule]

My Dad gave me a rifle very similar to that when I was 11 yrs. old. He had bought it when he got out of the Navy at the end of the Korean war and hunted with it until I was of age. I have since passed it on to my youngest son as he loves the rifle. I used it to kill many deer, both mule deer and white-tail. Packed it a few times for elk but never got one with it. I had a side mount put on it and a Leupold m8 4x scope put on it, later found an old Lyman All American 3x that now resides on the rifle. My son has been hunting with it since he was 12 (now 15) and has taken 3 cow elk and 2 whitetail deer (1 doe, 1 forky buck) with it and he loves that old rifle!! On the barrel it has-- PRODUCED BY THE SANTA FE DIVISION, OF GOLDEN STATE ARMS CORPORATION,MODEL 1941 SUPREME. I too love the rifle, it is as much a part of me as one of my arms or legs, if you know what I mean and I am so happy that he is now hunting with it too. I will have to see if I can get the wife to take some pics of it and post them here, I think some of you guys would like it too. JW

[Bloodman14]

That is one serious rebuild; I'd hang on to that one.

[Dutchman]

that has had the butt socket removed to allow for a one piece stock.

Never heard of such a thing! But it sure looks interesting. Would love to see photos of the rifle taken apart.

Dutch

[Multigunner]

Canada built a few rifles designated as the "No.4 Lightweight experimental".
These rifles used an action more similar to the No.5 than to the No.4 and the butt socket was eliminated so a one piece stock could be used.
That rifle had a barrel a bit over 23 inches in length, not the short carbine length barrel of the No.5.

Never heard of one of those trial rifles being sporterized, but there don't seem to have been many to survive in full trim either.
I had heard that the trials rifles may have been given to constabulary for use in animal control.

http://www.imageevent.com/badgerdog/cgnmilsurpknowledgebase/cdnlbno4light

[Dead Dog Jack]

Would love to see photos of the rifle taken apart.

Dutch



I, too, would like to see photos of the receiver without the stock. If nothing but to see how they attached the trigger. On a No. 5, the trigger is attached to the trigger guard. The trigger guard is attached at the lower end of the butt socket, which apparently is no longer there. So, it would be interesting to see how b----- threw this one together, especially since that looks like the original trigger.

[JeffinNZ]

I wish I had photos of Barry's rifle but he sold it. It was a LE in a faux Mannlicher stlye with the butter knife bolt handle and a peep sight on the rear of the bolt.

[swheeler]

What is it? Nice, damned nice let's here how it shoots boolits!

[gkainz]

Here's some disassembled pics

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/DBAPilotDad/303brit/IMG_0281.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/DBAPilotDad/303brit/IMG_0282.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/DBAPilotDad/303brit/IMG_0283.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/DBAPilotDad/303brit/IMG_0284.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/DBAPilotDad/303brit/IMG_0285.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/DBAPilotDad/303brit/IMG_0287.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/DBAPilotDad/303brit/IMG_0288.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/DBAPilotDad/303brit/IMG_0289.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/DBAPilotDad/303brit/IMG_0290.jpg


after I pulled it down, I remembered that I floated the barrel and glass bedded the receiver lug shortly after I got it.

I just checked the trigger and it lets go a bit heavy - measures out at 5lb 14oz

[gkainz]

What is it? Nice, damned nice let's here how it shoots boolits!

ok, confession time ... I don't (yet) cast ... but I have a feeling that hanging around here is gonna have me pouring boolits sooner rather than later ... :)

[swheeler]

ok, confession time ... I don't (yet) cast ... but I have a feeling that hanging around here is gonna have me pouring boolits sooner rather than later ... :) I think you are right!:) sweet rifle

[WILCO]

I think you are right!:) sweet rifle

+1! [smilie=s:

[Multigunner]

A very professional job of converting to a one piece stock.

I can see that its not an action from a No.4 lightweight experimental. Those used the MkI* style cut out in the bolt track rather than the bolt release latch at the rear of the track as used on No.4 MkI and No.5 carbines.

The lightweight No.4 also had a very different lightening cut on the left receiver wall, though the alterations have obscured the exact shape of the cut in these pictures.

I'd like to see a No.4 lightweight action out of its stock to compare it to this rifle.

Be sure screws are tight and everything well settled into the wood. The earlier Lee rifles had a rep for cracking the one piece stock under recoil. The Lee Enfield and later SMLE and No.4 also could crack the fore end in front of the king screw, but this is usually laid to either firing of rifle grenades or poorly seasoned stock sets.
I've seen a few No.4 and SMLE with cracked fore ends that showed very little wear, and all those had stocks of Birch , coachwood, or some unknown Indian hardwood, so the Ishapoor screw was not for grenade launching alone.

This stock looks like exceptionally good wood, so it should have no problems under normal use.

[JeffinNZ]

Someone has spent an awful lot of time doing that job. Good for them. That's a real keeper.

[Idaho Mule]

Here are a few photo's of my sporterized SMLE.

[gkainz]

I like it!

[nekshot]

Wow this lights a fuse! I have dreamed of doing a one piece stock to a enfield for a couple years. The action is so light and a mannlicker would really come out nice. I would use a rem 760 clip for a magazine, it looks to be a easy fit on my jungle action. I can understand why someone would do this, simply for the challenge and joy of seeing it completed! Thanks for sharing both rifles.

[herbert buckland]

I will make a bet that conversion was not done to make a profit.Very well thought out and executed.Would love own one as I am a bit of of a Lee fan,but I would think the cost of the work would be out of my range

[Four Fingers of Death]

Yep! This sort of thing is either a diy project or one for people with deep pockets that don't mind spending a heap of bucks to get what they want.

We used to have a talented gunsmith here and one of his wealthy clients had him cut two Lugers slightly off centre and weld them up to widen the gun for 45ACP! The guy wanted a 45ACP Luger and cost was no object! (his words apparently). I noticed that someone in the States actually bought a 45ACP Luger clone out a few years after that.

[TheGrimReaper]

Very pretty rifle. Very well done.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Back in the `60`s I remember coming across a .303 Epps Improved on a #4 Mk 1 action that had been customised much like yours, at a large gunshow in Detroit. I also remember that it was marked Elwood Epps the Canadien gunsmith and cartridge experimenter. It was on their table and was marked "Not for sale", always wondered what sort of money it would have taken to buy it.Robert

[303Guy]

Very nice and very interesting. What I find most curious is the side mount. Why fit a side mount on a rifle which comes with the perfect scope base mountings? Curious.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I wonderedabout the scope mount as well. Probably went to a gunshop to get a scope and mounts, etc and that was all they had in stock. Seems a shame to go to all that trouble and then end up with a crappy scope mount.

[soli]

I think Epps[of the great north] made some like yours,Very nice

[gkainz]

re: side scope mount ... I hope this pics show the top of the receiver, but I don't see how a top mount would work on this. Is there some mount that would bridge the gap over the rear of the receiver?


http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/DBAPilotDad/303brit/IMG_0291.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/DBAPilotDad/303brit/IMG_0292.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a237/DBAPilotDad/303brit/IMG_0293.jpg

[Four Fingers of Death]

Looks like my Parker Hale Factory Sporter they cleverly (not) ground away all of the charger, etc where you would normally attach a scope mount to.

[Idaho Mule]

gkainz, thanks for the comments, I sure like the one you have too, it is a most interesting rifle. I hope you are shooting it, as I said in a previous post I have used mine quite extensively and now my youngest son is continuing on with it. I hope you are loading for that nice old rifle and keeping it out in the playing field. Thanks to everyone else for their comments too. As far as the side-mount scope, my gunsmith and I did't see a better option. Maybe I could learn something here??JW

[herbert buckland]

Can you use the iron sights with the side mount scope fitted

[atr]

Let me throw my hat into the ring.
I customized this 303 when I was in high school, way back in the 60's. The stock is a Herters. The only thing I left unfinished was blueing the bottom of the modified magazine. Its a two groove and shoots the heavier slugs very well. The scope mount is a Williams side mount.

I still remember all the hours I spent with a file and emery paper.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Nice one atr

[gkainz]

Can you use the iron sights with the side mount scope fitted

I can.


Looks like my Parker Hale Factory Sporter they cleverly (not) ground away all of the charger, etc where you would normally attach a scope mount to.

I guess I need to go find an original receiver and see what they look like unmolested, just for my own education.


gkainz, thanks for the comments, I sure like the one you have too, it is a most interesting rifle. I hope you are shooting it, as I said in a previous post I have used mine quite extensively and now my youngest son is continuing on with it. I hope you are loading for that nice old rifle and keeping it out in the playing field. Thanks to everyone else for their comments too. As far as the side-mount scope, my gunsmith and I did't see a better option. Maybe I could learn something here??JW

Thanks, Idaho. I've not shot it in some time, but this thread has revived my interest in putting it back in service again. :)

[gkainz]

I guess I need to go find an original receiver and see what they look like unmolested, just for my own education.
borrowed these ... now I see the differences
http://www.gunmart.net/images/content/militaria/1105/4.JPG
http://www.gunmart.net/images/content/militaria/1105/5.JPG

[Four Fingers of Death]

borrowed these ... now I see the differences
http://www.gunmart.net/images/content/militaria/1105/4.JPG
http://www.gunmart.net/images/content/militaria/1105/5.JPG

The rifle we have been talking about is a No4 a later variant. That is a SMLE No1Mk111 (probably with a star-*). But for all intents and purposes, very similar. The people who built the sporters have removed the charger guide, which makes it easy to mount a scope.

That is a spectacularly good SMLE by the way, it looks like a new rifle.

[KCSO]

That almost looks like an Epp's conversion. The cutouts look to me like a #5 also. As to spending money on the conversion back in the 60's good Endfiellds were selling for as low as $12.00 and a lot of us converted them a little at a time 5 dollars a month till we had something.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Who could afford new factory guns then? You could buy SMLEs and Martini Cadets here real cheap. Most gunshops had a big barrel of Cadets in the middle of the floor. No4s were never issued to our military (apart from the odd one for special purposes) and were always a lot more expensive and pretty rare until recent years. Jungle Carbines were more common than No4s here as they were on issue to our military at one stage, but because they were so good looking, they were always expensive.

If you had of said mil surps should be left alone for posterity's sake, you would have got laughed at, we were up to our knees in them, lol.

[atr]

My Jungle carbine was purchased in 1966 for $30.00....the local grocery store had a hardware section and there was a rack full of old military rifles. It was my first large caliber rifle.

[Four Fingers of Death]

My Jungle carbine was purchased in 1966 for $30.00....the local grocery store had a hardware section and there was a rack full of old military rifles. It was my first large caliber rifle.

You started your large calibre shooting in style! A bit of a sod to shoot though, lol.

[nanuk]

I have owned a variety of LE's

never paid attention to the collector quality/info

had a No5 in VG. Shot it LOTS
had a No1Mk111. Full dress with matching bayo... shot it LOTS
now have 2 No1's and 1 No4 sporter stocked, but I think the metal is still all there, as none were scoped.

personally, I don't see a need to scope a LE if you can get the proper rear sight instead of that flip over battle sight.. That thing is good for MOOSE, but not much else... other than what it was designed for.

I have an extra battle sight for my No4 and want to make one that will put my bullet at POA at about 200yds.

[shoe303]

Wow, those are certainly some nice sporterized Enfields. Not your usual kitchen table hatchet jobs that you normally see.

[BruceB]

I have to brag a bit.

As a life-long devotee of the Lee Enfield and its cartridge, when I saw THIS #1Mklll rifle on Auction Arms I had to have it.

Go to:

www.gunauction.com and then search for 9059436

You'll see that it didn't come cheaply, but I believe it's worth every penny.

Made in 1914, it has a steel Lyman rear sight and a flip-up "moon sight" up front. The huge white bead may be seen in one of the photos. The rifle would have fitted well in "The Ghost and the Darkness", don't you think? (That's the movie about the man-eater lions, with Val Kilmer.) It still has its original barrel, which is in very nice condition.

I have a hunch that this rifle was worked-up by an artist here in the USA, but have no factual basis for the idea.

One of my most-prized rifles....

[9.3X62AL]

Another very nicely sporterized L/E.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Now that is nice!

[Four Fingers of Death]

I just looked at my rifle, the side of the receiver is drilled for a scope mount. I have an old Weaver 3X that will go well on it. I wouldn't mind doing an Epps conversion on it. The job has been quoted as $100 max, but the dies are expensive.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Rifles/ParkerHaleNo4Sporter9.jpg (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/4fingermick/media/Rifles/ParkerHaleNo4Sporter9.jpg.html)

[Reverend Al]

I posted this on another thread once before, but this Enfield was custom built by my very good friend and mentor Master Gunsmith George Kukacka from Prague. I worked with George for 14 years at the first gun shop I worked at and we became very good friends during the time we worked together and later after he had retired. He took an old, discarded Lee Enfield .303 British barreled action and reworked it in to this amazing thing of beauty to use as his own personal rifle. Years later when he was diagnosed with terminal cancer he presented this rifle to me as a gift before he passed and needless to say I was truly overwhelmed and extremely grateful as I knew it was one of him more treasured possessions. Similar to your custom rifle he altered it to a one piece hand carved and checkered stock with a Brno style schnabel forend, he lightly engraved the action and the shortened, 5 shot magazine, added a steel receiver sight, custom "tulip-ed" the bolt handle, plus he altered it to use a custom scalloped tang safety and a single stage trigger with a hand made lightweight aluminum trigger guard. I absolutely treasure this wonderful gifted rifle and I still do shoot it occasionally and think of my dear old friend George often ...
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/Reverend_Al/George%20Kuckaka%20custom%20Lee%20Enfield%20303%20 British/GeorgeKukackascustomLeeEnfield303Britishrifle015La rge_zpsb39c2e93.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Reverend_Al/media/George%20Kuckaka%20custom%20Lee%20Enfield%20303%20 British/GeorgeKukackascustomLeeEnfield303Britishrifle015La rge_zpsb39c2e93.jpg.html)
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/Reverend_Al/George%20Kuckaka%20custom%20Lee%20Enfield%20303%20 British/GeorgeKukackascustomLeeEnfield303Britishrifle014La rge_zps48d5dfef.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Reverend_Al/media/George%20Kuckaka%20custom%20Lee%20Enfield%20303%20 British/GeorgeKukackascustomLeeEnfield303Britishrifle014La rge_zps48d5dfef.jpg.html)
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/Reverend_Al/George%20Kuckaka%20custom%20Lee%20Enfield%20303%20 British/GeorgeKukackascustomLeeEnfield303Britishrifle012La rge_zps74420bbf.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Reverend_Al/media/George%20Kuckaka%20custom%20Lee%20Enfield%20303%20 British/GeorgeKukackascustomLeeEnfield303Britishrifle012La rge_zps74420bbf.jpg.html)
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/Reverend_Al/George%20Kuckaka%20custom%20Lee%20Enfield%20303%20 British/GeorgeKukackascustomLeeEnfield303Britishrifle011La rge_zps58c13229.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Reverend_Al/media/George%20Kuckaka%20custom%20Lee%20Enfield%20303%20 British/GeorgeKukackascustomLeeEnfield303Britishrifle011La rge_zps58c13229.jpg.html)
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/Reverend_Al/George%20Kuckaka%20custom%20Lee%20Enfield%20303%20 British/GeorgeKukackascustomLeeEnfield303Britishrifle010La rge_zpsde28ce54.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Reverend_Al/media/George%20Kuckaka%20custom%20Lee%20Enfield%20303%20 British/GeorgeKukackascustomLeeEnfield303Britishrifle010La rge_zpsde28ce54.jpg.html)
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/Reverend_Al/George%20Kuckaka%20custom%20Lee%20Enfield%20303%20 British/GeorgeKukackascustomLeeEnfield303Britishrifle009La rge_zpsbcbae523.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Reverend_Al/media/George%20Kuckaka%20custom%20Lee%20Enfield%20303%20 British/GeorgeKukackascustomLeeEnfield303Britishrifle009La rge_zpsbcbae523.jpg.html)
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/Reverend_Al/George%20Kuckaka%20custom%20Lee%20Enfield%20303%20 British/GeorgeKukackascustomLeeEnfield303Britishrifle007La rge_zps75b25e5b.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Reverend_Al/media/George%20Kuckaka%20custom%20Lee%20Enfield%20303%20 British/GeorgeKukackascustomLeeEnfield303Britishrifle007La rge_zps75b25e5b.jpg.html)
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/Reverend_Al/George%20Kuckaka%20custom%20Lee%20Enfield%20303%20 British/GeorgeKukackascustomLeeEnfield303Britishrifle006La rge_zps2f477329.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Reverend_Al/media/George%20Kuckaka%20custom%20Lee%20Enfield%20303%20 British/GeorgeKukackascustomLeeEnfield303Britishrifle006La rge_zps2f477329.jpg.html)
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/Reverend_Al/George%20Kuckaka%20custom%20Lee%20Enfield%20303%20 British/GeorgeKukackascustomLeeEnfield303Britishrifle005La rge_zps13ae8e12.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Reverend_Al/media/George%20Kuckaka%20custom%20Lee%20Enfield%20303%20 British/GeorgeKukackascustomLeeEnfield303Britishrifle005La rge_zps13ae8e12.jpg.html)
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd466/Reverend_Al/George%20Kuckaka%20custom%20Lee%20Enfield%20303%20 British/GeorgeKukackascustomLeeEnfield303Britishrifle003La rge_zps34455d14.jpg (http://s1221.photobucket.com/user/Reverend_Al/media/George%20Kuckaka%20custom%20Lee%20Enfield%20303%20 British/GeorgeKukackascustomLeeEnfield303Britishrifle003La rge_zps34455d14.jpg.html)

[DeanWinchester]

These really favor the Lee Speed Sporter.
They were very nice rifles. Rachel Weisz used one in the Mummy Returns.

[Multigunner]

Reverend Al that's a truly magnificient rifle, superb workmanship, and a truly touching story behind it. You have been extremely lucky to have had such a friend.

[curator]

There were a number of Canadian gunsmiths who would "convert" various Lee Enfields to one-piece stock configuration in the late forties and early fifties when factory rifles were pretty expensive. I bought my first LE for C$12 from Simpson-Sears in Guelph, in 1957. The clerk gave me a box of Winchester '43 military ammo to shoot in it for free. Pretty common in rural Ontario at the time. Over the years I saw several LE #4s made into one-piece stock sporters and target rifles, even a few done by Elwood Epps. An interesting point is that James Paris Lee designed his bolt action rifle to have a one-piece stock but the Brits thought the wrist/rear-action area too thin and subject to cracking or breakage and modified the design with the reinforced butt socket and two piece stock. So these sporters are kind of reverse engineering.

[UBER7MM]

Reverend Al,

I wouldn't take that Enfield outside!

[Reverend Al]

Reverend Al,

I wouldn't take that Enfield outside!

Well ... now that I really think about it, I've had this rifle for about 16 years now and I've had it out to the range about 3 times so far that I can recall. I've never chanced taking it out into the field for an actual day of hunting yet!

[Multigunner]

There were a number of Canadian gunsmiths who would "convert" various Lee Enfields to one-piece stock configuration in the late forties and early fifties when factory rifles were pretty expensive. I bought my first LE for C$12 from Simpson-Sears in Guelph, in 1957. The clerk gave me a box of Winchester '43 military ammo to shoot in it for free. Pretty common in rural Ontario at the time. Over the years I saw several LE #4s made into one-piece stock sporters and target rifles, even a few done by Elwood Epps. An interesting point is that James Paris Lee designed his bolt action rifle to have a one-piece stock but the Brits thought the wrist/rear-action area too thin and subject to cracking or breakage and modified the design with the reinforced butt socket and two piece stock. So these sporters are kind of reverse engineering.

Actually in Lee's Patents he wrote that he had built some of his bolt action rifles with two piece stocks. The method of mounting the Enfield stocks by use of butt socket and bolt may be a British design but they did not come up with the two piece idea out of the blue.
I've read that a deciding factor was the huge supply of already cut seasoned wood intended for the two piece stocks of the Martini rifles. Early on each stock set was cut from a single piece of wood with each component having a perfectly matching grain.

The Lee rifle stocks did have a tendency to split, though only rarely and if abused.
In later years the two piece stock with butt socket allowed use of lower grade and less well seasoned wood.

[Four Fingers of Death]

"In later years the two piece stock with butt socket allowed use of lower grade and less well seasoned wood“

That's true, I have seen some really ordinary packing crate stocks, but they work.

One thing the target shooters used to do here was to run two screws back into the stock to draw it tighter into the action socket. I was about to do this and I thought about it and felt that the same effect could be go by utilising washers under the big stock bolt to force it into the socket. I have often considered glass bedding this part of the stock.

Get that fancy rifle and go afield with it, I'm sure that that's what your friend would have wanted.

[BigEyeBob]

Old thread I know but I just found it .

Dont know any history of this pair , I found this pic somewhere on the web .
I posted just to add some more to the one piece Enfield stock library .
That rifle made by your friend Rev Al is one beautiful piece of art work .

The rear sights are similar to one that is on one of my 303 sporters , mine is a Field peep sight made by an Australian company (Field) that is long gone. They manufactured telescopic sights as well as side mounts occasionally one of their side mounts or scopes turn up on Ebay but are quickly grabbed by collectors

Kev.

[groovy mike]

A number 5 was my first rifle. It is all original and staying that way!

[303Guy]

I have to put one of my SMLE's back to original. Lee Enfields make great sporters. I have a LE I with a SMLE barrel onto which I have fitted original LE I sights. It has a very light sporter stock making it a real dandy light weight rifle. It points well too, like a shotgun.

[MtGun44]

Wow, that bottom metal and magazine is a work of art.
What an amazing rework.

Brings to mind the old saying "Can't make a silk purse out of
a sow's ear" - except I really do LIKE SMLEs and they may be
ugly, but it is not quite fair to call them sow's ears because
they were/are are really good battle rifles.

But, with that caveat - in this case (two of them, shown) you CAN
make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, if you work hard enough and
long enough on it.

[303Guy]

What an amazing rework.That rifle is a work of passion! Absolutely awesome. Definitely a silk purse.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

it is beautifully converted rifle, and has picked up Birmingham civilian proofmarks somewhere along the line. I have heard of that one-piece stock conversion, and have a very vague recollection that a Canadian gunsmith used to do it. I am not sure there is much point in it, for the original does a nice job of having the wood grain run the right way through the grip and elsewhere, and failure of the wood mostly occurs if it is the wrong wood or badly inletted into the socket. Nowadays I would use a Dremel tool to make sure the forged socket wasn't undercut, and then I would glass bed the butt into it, after wrapping the tenon with Kevlar thread or fiberglass tape. There now isn't much to stop recoil from splitting the wood, so I would glass bed the front bedding screw stud (possibly with a piece of steel tubing into which it would fit) and the rear of the tang. I think I would also replace or stain the forend cap.

It isn't quite the final version of the Lee-Enfield action, which would have the trigger pivoted in an extension of the receiver. The main thing is that the sear is. Does it still have the double trigger pull, or single stage? The Long Lee-Enfield had a single stage trigger, very heavy but no doubt it could be done with this one, and lightened without danger.

[gkainz]

It's a single stage trigger with very little travel, just heavy pull - nearly 6#s.

[KCSO]

Looks like an Epps conversion to me. Gooogle Elwood Epps and take a look at his work.

[nekshot]

I saw a bubba no5 today very nicely stripped and polished for 199.00 but I don't have it. These 303's just grow on you like facial hair!

[Four Fingers of Death]

Like Chinese food, no sooner do you have some and you feel like some more!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Looks like an Epps conversion to me. Gooogle Elwood Epps and take a look at his work.

That's the man I remember, and his work was well spoken of. Here is his gunsmithing page, on which this particular job isn't mentioned. But it sounds good.

https://ellwoodepps.com/hunting/gunsmith.html

[gkainz]

On a side note (not sure to say "positive" or not) ... I had a little bit of time at lunch to run it over to the range to shoot up the remaining 10 rounds I have (had) for it. But ... and this shocked me ... the remaining 5 Norma rounds I had left stuck to the magnet when they did their ammo check for rifles - "no steel or A/P ammo" ... but these were standard looking jacketed rounds. Box said "Norma No 17712 303. BRIT. 150 grain soft point"

So, only got to shoot 5 rounds of Remington 180 gr soft point core-loct

Using an NRA 200 Yard High Power target (Simulates 600 yard slow fire), the combination of trifocal glasses and tired old eyes, and I couldn't make out the scoring rings ... so held for center of the black blob and managed to keep them all on paper. Not a group I "usta could" shoot, but this getting old stuff is full of surprises :)

So anyway, here's the best I could do today, with apologies to the rifle, whom I'm quite certain has a lot more potential than I was able to exhibit today.

131990

[BruceB]

Norma made steel-jacket softpoints for many years.

The jacket had a steel layer with gilding metal on both sides, making a three-layer sandwich. I believe they called it "Tri-Clad".

I used some of the Tri-Clad bullets in 7mm rifles, and they worked fine on game.... expanded well, and retained weight in fine fashion.

I don't know when (or even IF) they discontinued the design, but there certainly haven't been any advertisements for it in a long time.

[gkainz]

Thanks - good info. The box is marked $16.50 so no idea for sure how old it is, but last century, for sure! :)

[303Guy]

Well, at least you managed to keep them all on paper.8-) Say what? That's some mighty fine shooting!:Fire:

[BigEyeBob]

Just got some images of my BSA Lee Metford custom sporter in 303 Brit. I purchased a couple of days ago .
This rifle was produced at the BSA factory circa 1920 and left the factory in its current configuration for sale to the general public.
It came with the 5 shot magazine pictured , these magazines are rare as hens teeth and command a big price when they come up for sale.

Can't wait for it to arrive and fire it . Ill be looking at GC cast bullets in the 215 Gn weight to feed it.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

That is another lovely piece of work, and whatever else gets said, you will be a long time waiting for any North American game animal you can say you missed because of the rifle or the cartridge. The Metford rifling won't erode nearly as fast with modern smokeless powders as it did with the original cordite. That contained even more nitroglycerin than it was soon reduced to, and you won't require to fire fifteen rounds a minute.

It looks like a ten-round magazine can still be inserted (unlike the other one, perhaps), and unless there is local legislation to prevent its use, I like it for hunting. It gives you a palm-rest which allows most of us, instead of a curiously constructed few of us, to rest elbow on hip-bone for a standing shot.

It is easily my favourite Lee action, being the most elegant and with a single stage trigger. That is undesirably heavy, but it can probably be lightened, if BSA haven't already done so, without becoming unsafe. The one thing I don't like is the safety. It is very safe when it is on - much more so than a trigger safety - but that little lever is easily knocked into the fire position. I'd be inclined to leave it there and rely on the half-cock notch. If it makes a noise you could probably reduce that with a piece of rubber glued to the sear and rubbing on wood or metal.

Some of these rifles bear the name Lee-Speed. It is just the same thing as the Lee-Metford. Mr. Speed did some of the work on converting Lee's magazine to British requirements, notably the double-column magazine. Then he got on the wrong side of his employers by patenting in his own name a .22 training rifle which they thought should have been theirs, or the military rifles might all have been Lee-Speeds to this day.

[303Guy]

It's a single stage trigger with very little travel, just heavy pull - nearly 6#s.You can fit an SMLE trigger. I did to my 1902 LE I*.

I've found that bolt safety to be quite reliable and never had it knock off. I can't say the same for the SMLE safety. Not that I use a safety. My 1902 allows me to open the bolt with some resistance with the safety on so I use it to lock the bolt on an empty chamber.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

The trigger assembly on the OP's post looks very much like a Pattern 14 trigger.

[BigEyeBob]

That is another lovely piece of work, and whatever else gets said, you will be a long time waiting for any North American game animal you can say you missed because of the rifle or the cartridge. The Metford rifling won't erode nearly as fast with modern smokeless powders as it did with the original cordite. That contained even more nitroglycerin than it was soon reduced to, and you won't require to fire fifteen rounds a minute.

It looks like a ten-round magazine can still be inserted (unlike the other one, perhaps), and unless there is local legislation to prevent its use, I like it for hunting. It gives you a palm-rest which allows most of us, instead of a curiously constructed few of us, to rest elbow on hip-bone for a standing shot.

It is easily my favourite Lee action, being the most elegant and with a single stage trigger. That is undesirably heavy, but it can probably be lightened, if BSA haven't already done so, without becoming unsafe. The one thing I don't like is the safety. It is very safe when it is on - much more so than a trigger safety - but that little lever is easily knocked into the fire position. I'd be inclined to leave it there and rely on the half-cock notch. If it makes a noise you could probably reduce that with a piece of rubber glued to the sear and rubbing on wood or metal.

Some of these rifles bear the name Lee-Speed. It is just the same thing as the Lee-Metford. Mr. Speed did some of the work on converting Lee's magazine to British requirements, notably the double-column magazine. Then he got on the wrong side of his employers by patenting in his own name a .22 training rifle which they thought should have been theirs, or the military rifles might all have been Lee-Speeds to this day.

Unfortunately this rifle was fitted with a barrel suited to the MKIIV ammunition and is indicated so by being engraved on the barrel by BSA.
As far as the safety is concerned I am considering a shotgun tang safety conversion .Some of the higher end Lee Speeds were fitted with them .
http://www.rifleman.org.uk/Lee-Speed.htm
I would say that this rifle was built after the Speed patents expired so is not marked as such.I think he also had something to do with the rotating bolt head as I've seen Lee speeds with a patent number stamped on the side of the bolt head.
Ten round magazines for this rifle are not a problem with the law here ,and I have a few spares .A friend has suggested I use the 10 round magazine for hunting , in case I lose the rare 5 shot one.
Can't wait for delivery , its eating me up .

Kev.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

It would be interesting if BSA throated those barrels shorter than would be required for the original 215gr. bullet. Barrel strength wouldn't have been the issue. It might be of some benefit as long as that is the sort you want to use, but I don't believe it was ever done with any British military Lee rifle. Captain C. Shore, author of "With British Snipers to the Reich", ran a sniping school in WW2, and received a large donation of leftover 215gr. ammunition from a civilian rifle club. He reported that it fitted and was very accurate in the No.4 rifle.

I don't know how the Lee-Enfield tang safety works. Ergonomically speaking I like the idea, and someone who makes extensive use of shotguns might like it better. But most of them, including those on double shotguns, are trigger safeties, and don't protect against wear of the sear or striker notch. I much prefer a safety which lifts the striker off the sear.

[Four Fingers of Death]

The 215Gn Woodleighs work well in the 303 it seems. I am yet to try them, but the few fellows that I know that hunt Sambar deer (elk sized) use them and 174Gn Hornady RN for everything else. These seem to be the pick of the bunch on most rifles here.

[303Guy]

I don't know how the Lee-Enfield tang safety works. Ergonomically speaking I like the idea, and someone who makes extensive use of shotguns might like it better.Maybe not. It works in reverse. Totally fail safe and real hard to accidentally knock off. Quiet too.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I got 100ea 215 gr Woodleigh's which I figure are going to be my heavy hunting load. I finally got 2 boxes of 174 gr Hornady's Saturday along with 3 boxes of 150 gr SP's. Mid South got them before Midway did and all five of those boxes, 500 rounds, cost me about the same as the 100 Woodleigh's. The 174's were $24.95/100

These should last me for the rest of my life! Funny cuz the gun will be used most often with cast 314299's, but I still will have all the bases covered with these three Bullets and the one Boolit.

I tend to like complete systems for any given gun or for that matter tools, Jeeps, etc. It gives you the flexibility to go where ever you want and do whatever you want at a moments notice. You never know when an opportunity will present itself.

Best to be prepared for as much as you can.

Randy

[BigEyeBob]

I got 100ea 215 gr Woodleigh's which I figure are going to be my heavy hunting load. I finally got 2 boxes of 174 gr Hornady's Saturday along with 3 boxes of 150 gr SP's. Mid South got them before Midway did and all five of those boxes, 500 rounds, cost me about the same as the 100 Woodleigh's. The 174's were $24.95/100




These should last me for the rest of my life! Funny cuz the gun will be used most often with cast 314299's, but I still will have all the bases covered with these three Bullets and the one Boolit.

I tend to like complete systems for any given gun or for that matter tools, Jeeps, etc. It gives you the flexibility to go where ever you want and do whatever you want at a moments notice. You never know when an opportunity will present itself.

Best to be prepared for as much as you can.

Randy

The Woodleigh 215Gn ers work well , some use them here for busting Asian water buffalo and scrub bulls both tough and tenacious bovines to say the least .
Penetration is probably the best you will get using 215 Woodleighs .
In my old MKI NoIII SMLE sporter I have used them on feral camels as well as 180gn Remington Corelokt .Camels a pretty much thin skinned and drop on the spot with any thing from the 303 thats in the shoulder /heart/ lung region .
I used some cast 215Gn ers last year on a camel cull and they worked very well also .
I have a hundred or so of nickel jword military RNFMJ's from old WWI 303 ammunition .not sure Ill use them though.

Kev.