30-06 cast boolits for moose?

[7.62Man]

Hi all,

I found an article by Ed harris that gave me a nice 600yard target/deer load with 180 grain cast bullets. I am now wondering about using cast bullets on something as large a moose. I am currently using a lee 180 gas check bullet behind hero 2400. I have used/make lyman #2 and straight wheel weights to cast my bullets.

Is the Lee 180 grain GC ok to use on moose? Anyone have a load worked up with 2400/IMR 3031/ RL7 they care to share with me? Also any special heating of the bullets needed.

I would also use this load for black bear. The rounds are being fired from a old husky-500 (mauser action) 30-06 with a 20" barrel.

:castmine:

[MT Gianni]

Moose take a lot of bullet. The only one I have shot was with a Barnes X bullet and 54" of penetration put it down because one petal came off where it entered near the spine and traveresed along the spine. The rest of the bullet penetrated a lung and came to rest on the hide near the front shoulder. He crawled with front legs for 15 yards before I could put another one in him. Shuz has killed a couple with a 35 Whelen and 280 gr 3589 as I recall. Several have done so with the 45-70. I know the 30 cal 180 gr is a deer killer exraordinare and have never used it on elk but moose take a lot of bullet. Gianni

[Bullshop]

Bout 60gn 50/10 with a little kicker under it. Works for me! I dont use the lee though I use the lyman #314299 but bump a meplate on it. It works real good in worn or oversize bores. This was the only thing I found to shoot good in a ruger with generously dimentioned chamber. As I recall I was running them about .312" and acww. Usualy shoots a 2 bit piece size hole through on broad side shots. I have used this duplex load in several 06 rifles with boolit weights from 200 to bout 220gn and it works well. I shoot the same load in the 45/70 with heavy boolits in the 500gn range. If you check the pics at my site you will see a target I shot with an 1875 C.Sharps 45/70.
4 of 5 at 100 are in 1 hole and the 5th is touching. Yup sure nuf sounds crazy, maybe, but works good in about any cartridge with about a 60gn powder capacity. Go ahead tell me I am crazy, you aint the first.
BIC/BS

[jhalcott]

Moose CAN be tough to put down! A fellow up in Maine and his son put about 8 rounds into one ,3 from the dad's 300 win mag and 5 from the son's 7mm Rem mag. The last one thru the back of the neck as it was going away. They found several holes thru the heart when cleaning it. On the other hand I know of 2 large moose that were shot once each with a 180 grain 30-06 round nosed bullet.The 2nd moose was NOT the 1st(oops). They fell about 10 steps from each other. IF I were to use a cast bullet for moose in the 30-06 it would be heavy AND flat nosed. #2 Lyman alloy and pushed to at least 2400 fps. I would NOT hesitate to flat nose a 200 grain round or pointed bullet. The 311041at 170 grains and pushed by 40 to 44 grains of IMR 3031-44to 47 grains of WW748 or 41 to 45 grains of H4895,what ever is most accurate in MY rifle would get the nod.
I would NOT try shooting one at 200 yards either.

[versifier]

In .30cal, IMO you would be better off with a boolit in that weight with a good meplat, like RCBS 180FN or Lyman 311041. I haven't water tested the softnose in Lee 180's to see what kind of expansion they get, but was thinking of it more as a deer load, (though it is certainly accurate). My experiences with moose and jacketed bullets lean toward 165 & heavier - it took 4 150's to put down the last one we used them on. Later results with 165 & 180 were much better. With a boolit, the heavier the rifle shoots well, the better, and since .30 cal boolits don't run as heavy as larger caliber ones, the meplat is even more important for clean kills. Bullshop likely can tell you more than most of us, PM him for his opinion if he doesn't see this thread and post on it.

[carpetman]

I have seen a sum total of 3 moose shot,but having lived in Alaska for a couple of years,I talked to a very large number of folks that had shot them. The common thread seemed that moose for the most part were easier to bring down than I had expected. This was with jacketed bullets. In my case(and my wifes),we used 150 grain bullets in a 30-06. Lot of people have told me that is too light a bullet,some of those same folks were using a .270 with a 130 grainer---hmmmmm? My moose was a two shot deal but after the fact I think the first one was all that was needed. Some of the reports I have read here with cast bullets,and even larger than .30 cal were not what I would call acceptable. Couple that poor performance(took several shots to bring it down)with a more rainbow trajectory and of course a lessened range would make me ask the question,why would you want to use a cast .30 cal bullet? For me hunting a moose would involve a large expense and I'd give myself every chance and spend the couple bucks extra for a jacketed bullet.

[jhalcott]

True Carpetman,BUT not all of us live away from the wilds. IF (big IF) it was a once in a lifetime trip ,I'd grab EVERY edge I could. 7.62 didn't indicate WHERE he lives or where the moose will be hunted. Undoubtedly SOME of the people posting here CAN hunt off their back porch. I would love to have that kind of problem!

[BruceB]

There's no doubt that a .30-caliber lung hit will kill a moose. I've killed my share of moose, mostly with the .30-06 and .303 British, but also one or two with the .338 Winchester. Only the .303 used factory loads; the rest had Nosler Partitions.

However, I do NOT believe that a .30-caliber cast bullet will ever equal today's wonderful jacketed bullets. If I was forced by circumstance to use a .30 with cast bullets on moose (or other big game) it would be with just about the heaviest cast bullet I could find, and it would also have a soft-point, cast via the method I've finalized upon. 311284 would seem to be the primo choice.

With a 220-grain softpoint cast bullet, I'd work up a load similar to the original .30-40/.303 British sporting loads, which were roundnose softpoints of 215-220 grains. Driven at 2100 to 2200 fps, this load would be pretty decent. I've used such jacketed loads on moose in the .303 and they worked well.

For my personal taste, if I can't have velocity (2800+) I want WEIGHT, and the day I set out after moose with a cast-bullet, the rifle will be at least a .338, and more likely the .416 Rigby or .404 Jeffery, examples of which I'm lucky enough to own. The heavy bullet weight adds insurance in the areas of bullet integrity and better penetration. These loads would also carry cast softpoints. After a nasty experience with .404 solids (non-expanding steel FMJ) on Wood Buffalo, I want NOTHING to do with bullets that don't expand.

Although I understand the "shoot 'em and siddown for a half-hour" school of thought, and it works, I much prefer to drop my critter right there, killing it outright on impact. Over about the last fifty or more big animals I've killed, mostly caribou plus a few moose and buffalo, exactly NONE got out of sight. Some of that is due to the type of country, but a lot of it was also due to putting excellent bullets in very vital spots. The moose were shot in heavy brush/swamp, so cover wasn't lacking if they'd been able to move.

I believe that my .40-caliber-plus rifles with cast softpoints will be every bit as certain in their effect. I'm thinking very seriously of making my next Alberta elk trek (in '08, God willing) with cast bullets only. On the previous trip, the .416 was zeroed at 160 yards, and shot 3" high at 100, 3" low at 200 with the RCBS 416-350 at 2100 fps. All that was lacking was an elk to shoot at....!

...all of which is a long-winded way of saying that a cast-bullet .30 WILL kill a moose very dead, but I'd much rather have something with more bullet weight. As always, the .45-70 is a readily-available certain-sure choice at a reasonable price for anyone desiring an EFFECTIVE cast-bullet hunting rifle. Get thee behind me, you Marlins!!!!

[carpetman]

Jhalcott--I too noticed 7.62 didnt say how far he'd have to go to hunt. But since he is asking about it,was guessing he didn't live in moose country?? But that wouldn't matter to me,I agree with BruceB,put em down as fast as possible and use something adequate to do such. I think a 30-06 with jacketed fills that bill and would be skeptical of a .30 cal cast. I do know a .243 with jacketed brings down the whitetail here,but my cast experience was contrary.

[leftiye]

Fwiw, Jack O'Connor in his unending war with E. Keith over big bore vs small bore cited having put a .375 cal. Sierra through an elk's lungs and not collecting it, and later killing that same elk and finding the healed wound channel in its lungs. Those early 300 grainers were too tough for North American game. You might have the same experience with a hard cast .30 cal., or any .30 cal. that didn't expand. I'd guess that moose were on a par with Elk as to toughness to put down.

[7.62Man]

I live in NW Ontario (Canada), the moose come right to the front yard to eat marsh marigolds. So I am not worried about wrecking a hunting trip. (Can't shoot moose tho in front yard, my wife would kill me. I have to wait till they walk to the back yard first :) )

I have used winchester fail safes in the past in the 30-06 without a problem but was wondering about using cast bullets. I also have a 45-70 down in the cabinet that I use for the 500lbs (ok only ever shot one that size, rest where about 200lbs+) black bears that like to try and get into my garabage.

I just like the idea of taking game cleanly with bullets I have cast myself. I am still very green st this whole casting process.

Thank-you all for your pearls of wisdom

[BruceB]

7.62Man; "I live in NW Ontario (Canada)....."

Really! Whereabouts? I grew up mostly in Atikokan, during its iron-mining days, but have spent some visiting time in Sioux Lookout, Dryden, Kenora, Red Lake, etc. Started my moose-hunting days there, and then continued when I was on my own in the Northwest Territories for 34 years.

Folks, NW Ontario is a HOTBED of meese (and paradise for meese hunters)!

When I was a kid in our first home in that area, our back lawn ended in bushland, and the next civilization was a good eighty miles north from our lawn, that being the Trans-Canada Highway. House was built right on grade (concrete slab foundation), and it wasn't unusual to find bear tracks under my bedroom window...low enough for the bears to look in from standing on all fours! I didn't need any bogeymen under the bed; they were right outside the window, in fur coats....

[7.62Man]

Thunder Bay to be exact, way out John Street road almost at the end.

I know what you mean about not needing bogeymen! I always look out the window before letting the dog out or walking to the truck in the morning. Never know what could be waiting for me, lately just a few does :)

[jhalcott]

C-man by contrary ,do you mean the cast did NOT drop the deer as quick as the jwords? I noticed that with several calibers from 6mm to 35 caliber with hard bullets(18 to 22bhn).Speed did NOT matter .With a Lyman#2 alloy and flat noses ,the results were much more to MY liking.

[carpetman]

jhalcott---I have a load for my .243 that produces good accuracy and a chrono that I used that seemed accurate on other loads said this one was around 2900fps--95 grain rcbs. This 2900 was higher than the book had it listed for,but the guy said his chrono was accurate. Bottom line this load was used on a spike buck one shot by my grandson and I doubt he missed. The buck ran a few yards and stopped and I had a good shot and don't think I missed. Nary a drop of blood was found and he was going full speed when last seen. He hit a tee in the trail and which direction he went from there was not ascertained.