Dillon's Service, not always the well oiled machine!!

[azrednek]

This morning, the day after I posted my thoughts on Dillon's service I got a private message from a moderator as follows.

"My thread was intended to show the good service I received so I removed your post from my thread. If you wish to start another thread stating your dissatisfaction with Dillon Precision then have at it. Robert"

So to comply with Robert’s request, deal with his censorship of opposing opinions. I'll have at it, here it is in another thread.

Personally I have had two problems with Dillon. My problems reflect more on poor employees more than the company as a whole. Apx 10 years ago while I worked for the US Postal Service I arrived in Dillon’s showroom in uniform. Just after making a purchase of over two hundred in various components. Two uniformed cops that were having a conversation close by. When one of them remarked in jest "bet you had to open a lot of mail to pay for all that". I responded in jest, "I’m not like you guys and can’t take bribes". One cop remarked to the other "oh you take bribes instead of fixing tickers". All was being said in fun and none of us were serious but a female sales person of Dillon’s didn’t see it that way. She reported both cops from different municipalities to internal affairs who in turn reported me to the Postal Inspectors.

I got an **** chewing and a threat of a written reprimand but it never transpired. The Inspectors told me the cops were both in big trouble but I was never privy to the details. During my conversation or interrogation if you may by the Postal Inspectors. They seemed more concerned about the 8lb keg of Bullseye I had purchased. I realize all of us went over the top with our jokes, none of us were serious but why did Dillon’s employee rat out the cops. I wrote a letter to Mr Dillon, complaining mostly of what happened to the cops but apparently he didn’t have time to answer my letter.

I never intended to spend my money at Dillon’s again but that changed during the height of the recent shortages. I was desperate for some 45 Auto Rim brass and decided to call Dillon’s. The person answering their 800 number told me their computer system showed two boxes of 50 each in stock. I advised the sales person I’m apx a 45-60 minute drive each way and asked if there was any way they could hold it for me. The salesman said he’d have to transfer my call to the showroom and he also advised me to ask them to physically check to be sure the goods were on the shelf. The showroom employee immediately displayed an attitude by complaining "why make me walk all the way back there they are closer than me". I asked the salesman to transfer my call back. After hanging on the phone for several minutes and not getting an answer I hung up.

[Kevin Rohrer]

What happened 10-years ago was some bubblehead female sticking her nose into something that was none of her business--in other words, it should not have happened. The incident was not a reflection on Dillon anymore than the conversation you had being a reflection on the organizations you and the coppers worked for. I could easily see myself being in any of your shoes.

As for the more recent incident, it takes all kinds to make a world, and you either got a lazy person, or someone who was having a bad day. Again, his attitude is not a reflection on Dillon, but it needs to be brought to te attention of Mike Dillon.

[imashooter2]

You asked a guy to physically check stock, and although he complained about his fellow worker, he went to satisfy your request. You didn't wait for him to return and hung up, but somehow the worker is the bad guy.

:roll:

[Dan Cash]

Not only is Imashooter spot on about your recent conduct, had I personally over heard your questionable conversation with the cops, you can bet that I would have filed a complaint/report regarding it. Some things are not joking matters, particularly when you, in uniform, appear to be in official capacity.

[cajun shooter]

I was not there so I can't speak about the punishment side of the posting. I do know that just because a man or woman is wearing a uniform it does not remove his right to free speech.
Now that is how it is supposed to be, but in the real world that is not so. The female employee must have received some sort of ticket or other business with law enforcement in the past and was looking for I'll get even time. She jumped into something that was not her business.
As far as the OP of this thread, I will say that while wearing any type of uniform you should keep all conversations very private. That goes for discussing any matter that brings people at odds very fast.
The employee that reported the two cops should have come to the attention of the staff.
Your assumption that you were being brushed off is open for many different views. Perhaps the employee had some sort of physcial problem that destroyed his walking speed. He could have been stopped by any one and asked a question and the list continues. This in no way has anything to do with the service at Dillon unless you are able to see across phone lines.
I have found Dillon to be just the opposite and that is dealing with them for over thirty years.
I have found that a simple request of returning my call when you are able to confirm that information goes a long way to not being put on hold or receiving a call back.

[Love Life]

I recently fat fingered the adjustment screw for my large powder bar. I emailed Dillon to inquire about buying just the parts and not the whole powder bar. They asked for my shipping address and shipped me all the parts for free. Large powder bar is back in action.

[Lloyd Smale]

If i would have been you i would have told my boss to go flower his ***. You did nothing wrong and im one that doesnt stand for an *** chewing that isnt waranted.. If anyone ran off the mouth to much it was those police officers and they should have known better. I didnt wear a uniform but worked as a lineman out in the public and we learned real fast to watch or language and watch what we said as it had a way of comming back to the office before even you did. Sounds to me that the problem you had was with the postal service not dillon.

[dauntlessdave]

Much ado about nothing regarding Dillon's customer service. Wasn't there so I can't judge but somehow making it a reflection of Dillon's customer service seems to be misplaced in my opinion.

As mentioned, any number of personalities occupy positions within a business. To paint a business by one or two of these folks perhaps having a bad day is wrong.

[azrednek]

but it needs to be brought to te attention of Mike Dillon.

I thought the first incident needed Mr Dillon's attention and I wrote him a letter describing the incident. There was more to the story than I posted. The female employee was coming off in a flirtatious manner toward the cops, I suspect her overtures were rejected after I left and the employee as a scorned woman sought revenge. Mr Dillon either opted not to answer my letter or somebody intercepted it before it got to his desk. I never received an answer.

[azrednek]

To paint a business by one or two of these folks perhaps having a bad day is wrong.

If you read the second sentence of my post 'My problems reflect more on poor employees more than the company as a whole." I agree with what you say. Had Mr Dillon responded to my letter I'm sure my loading bench would be seeing more blue. As a consumer I can show my dis-satisfaction by spending my money elsewhere and that is exactly what I've done.

[Kevin Rohrer]

had I personally over heard your questionable conversation with the cops, you can bet that I would have filed a complaint/report regarding it.

This is a sad statement. If three people who don't know each other want to have a private conversation and are joking with each other about something, it is no one else's business.

It would be a far better world if people minded their own business rather than sticking their elongated noses into places they are not meant to be.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I have had to make extra purchases, just to cover for you. Fortunately, I'm ok with that.

As the late, great Paul Harvey used to say: "and now, for the rest of the story..."

For every whiny letter like yours here, and this is what, the third one already this calendar year; there are a couple hundred glowing reports of Dillon staff who went the extra mile to handle customer questions/issues.

Sorry, if they hurt your feelings...

Rich
representing the 99.6% who are very happy with Dillon products and service.

[azrednek]

Not only is Imashooter spot on about your recent conduct, had I personally over heard your questionable conversation with the cops, you can bet that I would have filed a complaint/report regarding it. Some things are not joking matters, particularly when you, in uniform, appear to be in official capacity.

I learned at a very early age, likely the first grade and later in life in the work place. There is always at least one in every crowd. In my school years we called them tattle tails or squealers. As an adult I believe it was originally rat-fink and later just rat. I was never fortunate enough to be in the military but what ever they are called in the military. I'm sure there is at least one in every barracks.

Two cops de-stressing after a tough day, decide to have some fun and pull the leg of a mailman that gave the razzing right back to them. Guess in somebody's mind they represent a danger to society or some other strange justification in "you can bet that I would have filed a complaint/report regarding it."

[azrednek]

If i would have been you i would have told my boss to go flower his ***. You did nothing wrong and im one that doesnt stand for an *** chewing that isnt waranted.. If anyone ran off the mouth to much it was those police officers and they should have known better. I didnt wear a uniform but worked as a lineman out in the public and we learned real fast to watch or language and watch what we said as it had a way of comming back to the office before even you did. Sounds to me that the problem you had was with the postal service not dillon.

Lloyd my boss actually laughed it off, could have cared less other than the lost time and the 20 or so minutes of over-time it cost him. The Postal Inspectors, one a young punk speaking with a heavy New York accent tried to make a big deal out of me buying ammo components and gunpowder. I just can't put into print or begin to describe the sarcastic tone he spoke saying the word "gunpowder".

The interview came to a quick end when he asked "how many guns do you have". I responded by asking "why do you want to know". He countered by saying "I'm the one asking the questions here". As I got up and walked out of the room with him saying something like "where are you going we're not done". I told him "if I'm not under arrest I'm exercising my right to have an attorney" and to throw him a curve I told him I also wanted a union steward and a copy of the recorded interview. As I walked out of the room. He said something about why do you need a lawyer is there something we should know about. I just continued back to my work station without saying another word.

About a week later the punk inspector showed up, apologized and shook my hand. He still wouldn't tell about what happened to the two cops, the real victims other than they are fine and their jobs are not in jeopardy. I was providing Az DPS and Phx PD with some information about criminal activity I was observing. To protect my identity all the info was provided through and filtered by the Inspection Service. When the information stopped, didn't take long for them to add 2 and 2.

[JIMinPHX]

I know AZredneck personally. He has always been a kind gentleman whenever I have run into him. I've seen him keep a stiff upper lip in the face of stern adversity on more than one occasion too.

I'll keep my comments about Dillon & the people at Dillon very short & to the point.

I have been frustrated by Dillon several times because they do not stock all of the things that they carry in the catalog & when they give you a delivery date, they are often wrong by a large margin. That has been my frustration with Dillon, the company.

The people on the phone there have been OK by me.

The people in the showroom often have an attitude that they are better than the customers, know more than the customers every will & should never have their opinions questioned. I found it quite frustrating that when I wanted to buy something that was not what they recommended, they did not want to sell it to me. They also look down at people who cast their own boolits. They view that as a silly thing that nobody really does anymore. They told me so to my face in so many words. That has been my frustration with the people at Dillon. I stopped shopping there many years ago.

I do not know the woman that azredneck had the run in with. The only women that I knew there were a model from the catalog named Kathy & her mom. They were both well mannered women. Kathy was a little shorter in person than I had expected from the photos, but she was sweet as pie. She later went on to become a spokesperson of some sort for Barret Jackson.

During the great component shortage, I ran into Mike Dillon looking to buy supplies over the counter at Randal's on the other side of town. He got caught short too. Apparently, stocking is not their strong suit.

[Lloyd Smale]

you and your boss handled it well.
Lloyd my boss actually laughed it off, could have cared less other than the lost time and the 20 or so minutes of over-time it cost him. The Postal Inspectors, one a young punk speaking with a heavy New York accent tried to make a big deal out of me buying ammo components and gunpowder. I just can't put into print or begin to describe the sarcastic tone he spoke saying the word "gunpowder".

The interview came to a quick end when he asked "how many guns do you have". I responded by asking "why do you want to know". He countered by saying "I'm the one asking the questions here". As I got up and walked out of the room with him saying something like "where are you going we're not done". I told him "if I'm not under arrest I'm exercising my right to have an attorney" and to throw him a curve I told him I also wanted a union steward and a copy of the recorded interview. As I walked out of the room. He said something about why do you need a lawyer is there something we should know about. I just continued back to my work station without saying another word.

About a week later the punk inspector showed up, apologized and shook my hand. He still wouldn't tell about what happened to the two cops, the real victims other than they are fine and their jobs are not in jeopardy. I was providing Az DPS and Phx PD with some information about criminal activity I was observing. To protect my identity all the info was provided through and filtered by the Inspection Service. When the information stopped, didn't take long for them to add 2 and 2.

[btroj]

And if we found out those cops were taking bribes we would bash the employee for not reporting it.

I don't know how this really has much of anything to do with Dillon.

Key is we live in a free market economy. Buy there products and shop at their store or don't. Your choice. Of you have bad service and keep going back at some point it stops being their issue.

[Kevin Rohrer]

I was never fortunate enough to be in the military but what ever they are called in the military. I'm sure there is at least one in every barracks.

As a 3rd generation US Army veteran, I know exactly what people like that were called: Buddy F**kers. There tended NOT to be one in every barracks; or if one existed, he didn't last long.


Two cops de-stressing after a tough day, decide to have some fun and pull the leg of a mailman that gave the razzing right back to them.

This is a game played in our military, called "Dozens". It involves trading insults back and forth until one person runs out of things to say. I don't know when it started, but was popular with the Vietnam vets I served with.


And I have nothing against anyone here who has an opinion that differs from mine. I just have no use for PC

:Fire: Political Correctness

[scarry scarney]

And I have nothing against anyone here who has an opinion that differs from mine. I just have no use for PC

:Fire: Political Correctness

Agreed. I once heard the definition of PC: the theory of being able to pick up a turd by the clean end

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

You all need to read Diane West's "Death of The Grownup" sometime.

I played the "Dozens" a little in RVN. It works pretty well as long as the players are agreed on limits. I watched two black guys, good people both, get just beyond the line, and the one stabbed the other.

Your childish behavior jeopardized other people's jobs.

You also neglected the punchline: did you retire from the USPS or get canned?

[Love Life]

I was never fortunate enough to be in the military but what ever they are called in the military. I'm sure there is at least one in every barracks.

Kevin nailed it for what we call them. We also call them Bravo Foxtrots and Blue Falcons.

[L1A1Rocker]

I've got two problems with Dillon:

First is their change of the "No BS Lifetime Warranty" of electronic stuff. I understand that they can change the warranty of stuff the are selling but they have taken it upon themselves to retroactivly change MY warranty, post sale, to NOT being a lifetime warranty anymore. That to me is 100% BS! I suggest that they use their computer system and get the model number of electronic stuff that is being asked to be warrantied. Now THEY can know if this particular electronic item was purchased with the old "No BS Lifetime Warranty" or with the newer one year warranty that every other reloading company offers.

Second is the precedent that they have set by unilaterally voiding what was supposed to be a "No BS Lifetime Warranty". They've done this to electronic items that WERE sold with a "No BS Lifetime Warranty" that they no longer honor. What might they next decide no longer has a "No BS Lifetime Warranty"?

[kywoodwrkr]

To OP.
My experience was similar to yours.
I needed assistance and to this day the 550 is sitting in the corner, used only as a paper weight. I tell folks who ask exactly why it's there.
Another poster chastised the OP for not being patient with a person who was checking on a product.
I didn't quite read it that way.
The showroom employee immediately displayed an attitude by complaining "why make me walk all the way back there they are closer than me". I asked the salesman to transfer my call back. After hanging on the phone for several minutes and not getting an answer I hung up.
That doesn't sound like the OP didn't wait, he did.
No one answered.

[Alvarez Kelly]

I needed assistance and to this day the 550 is sitting in the corner, used only as a paper weight. I tell folks who ask exactly why it's there.

Allow me to take that bad acting 550 off your hands. I'm sure I have any parts needed to fix it in my storage bins...

Do you have a price in mind or do you want me to make you an offer.

I have a "like new" Lyman single stage and an oldie but goodie Hollywood Universal II turret press to trade with if you were so inclined...

[Casting Timmy]

I'll probably be hated for this, but I recently used their customer service and I did like the service I received. Although the No BS Lifetime warranty, should be called the No BS $100 rebuild service.

I know a lot of people truly love Dillon and I like it too, but I was taken back when I found out how the warranty really worked for the press. Probably just my confusion, but if I break a Snap-On wrench the warranty gives me a new one for free. I assumed that the warranty of the press worked the same way.

[Alvarez Kelly]

I'll probably be hated for this, but I recently used their customer service and I did like the service I received. Although the No BS Lifetime warranty, should be called the No BS $100 rebuild service.

I know a lot of people truly love Dillon and I like it too, but I was taken back when I found out how the warranty really worked for the press. Probably just my confusion, but if I break a Snap-On wrench the warranty gives me a new one for free. I assumed that the warranty of the press worked the same way.

It's kinda like this... If the press doesn't work right, you send it to them and they rebuild it and send it back. It only costs what it costs you to ship it to them. If you want their "cleaning/lubricating service" (which includes replacing anything that needs to be replaced also), they charge a flat fee. The fees range from about $75 for the Square Deal, to about $150 for the Super 1050. That includes return shipment.

Some customer service reps do a better job than others in asking what is "wrong." It helps to know the "right" answer.

I have used both the No BS, warranty zero cost return service, and their "cleaning/lubricating service". I was more than pleased every time I opened the returned press. On more than one occasion, I think they just sent me a new press in exchange for mine!

I hope this clears its up a bit. No sense spending money if you don't have to!

[Casting Timmy]

It definitely needed more than a clean and lube, it wasn't working when I sent it in. I told them how the press was locked soid when I got it and was able to get it moving again and had replaced one part that I knew was missing. I didn't know if I was missing more parts and was tired of working on it. I told them it could be a simple adjustment problem or a more parts missing, I just didn't have a clue and was tired of working on it.

After sending mine in for repair, I did some internet searching for other people's feedback and it seemed that most people had to pay the repair fee.

Can I ask the last time you were able to receive zero cost return service? Maybe this isn't something that they offer anymore? I would have taken that option, but the only option I had was paying for the service. I also asked about buying a set of dies and have them shipped back with the press to save on shipping, but that wasn't an option for me either.

[dillonhelp]

If a machine(other than the RL300/ RL1000/1050 series) has a mechanical problem beyond the ability of the owner to correct, Dillon will repair it under warranty at no charge. If your machine suffers from lack of maintenance,and you want us to clean and lube your machine,then we do charge a fee, which covers disassembly, cleaning all parts in the solvent tank, inspection of all parts and replacement of anything worn or damaged, relubrication and reassembly, and return shipping. We don't make a profit from this, just trying to cover costs.
There is a large secondary market in used Dillon equipment. On used equipment we won't warranty missing parts, and we do charge for our clean and lube service. Otherwise the machine's warranty stays with the machine, whether you are the first, second or fifth owner.
The warranty on electrical/electronic components changed on July 1 ,1999. Equipment sold prior to that is still covered under the lifetime warranty it was sold with. While we do not have a record of everything everyone has ordered since the beginning of Dillon Precision, between motor brands and scale configurations and serial numbers we can typically determine the age of products.
I do apologise for the grumbling about looking for 45 AR brass.Assisting customers is what people get paid to do here, so it is truly part of the job. At this time we do not have any 45 AR brass in stock. I checked, and Starline Brass lists it as currently being available directly from them.
https://www.starlinebrass.com/order-online/all-cases.cfm

[azrednek]

I do apologise for the grumbling about looking for 45 AR brass.Assisting customers is what people get paid to do here, so it is truly part of the job. At this time we do not have any 45 AR brass in stock. I checked, and Starline Brass lists it as currently being available directly from them.
https://www.starlinebrass.com/order-online/all-cases.cfm

I appreciate you commenting on my complaint, it is nice to know after all these years I finally got a listening ear at Dillons. Just for the record the 45AR brass you had in stock or at least showed as being in stock at the time was from a company named Top Brass.

As much as I appreciate the comment. I would have really liked to have heard somebody from Dillon commenting on the first part of my post in regards to the trouble created by reporting the two cops who were obviously not serious and just having some fun in a kidding manner chiding a mailman. I'd especially like to know the reason for the non-response from Mr Dillon.

[dillonhelp]

There was a female working in retail ten years ago but I cannot recall her name.She hasn't worked here in quite some time. Kind of difficult to reply to something like that after all these years. I've been here since 1984, but I don't recall any rumors about such an over-reaction. We try to make our customers feel valued, not targeted. If she really was concerned, simply asking "are you guys kidding?" should have resolved the issue. As for your letter, it sounds like either A) Mike never saw it or B) it may have played a part in that particular sales person no longer being here.

[L1A1Rocker]

Equipment sold prior to that is still covered under the lifetime warranty it was sold with. While we do not have a record of everything everyone has ordered since the beginning of Dillon Precision, between motor brands and scale configurations and serial numbers we can typically determine the age of products.

I appreciate your response to my post. From your response I take it that Dillon has the position that they WILL honor electronic parts sold under the "No BS lifetime warranty" and that "between motor brands and scale configurations and serial numbers we can typically determine the age of products." The problem though is that the people answering the phones do not do this. They inform the caller that Dillon no longer has a lifetime warranty on electronic items, end of discussion. It is not that uncommon to read of this occurence on the various gun related forums on the internet.

My personal experience, well my father's actually, with this (I assume) policy in dealing with electronic warranty issues was a number of years ago. First, after storage, the early priming warning alarm on the 550 stopped working. This was stored without a battery in the alarm so there was no corrosion issue. A fresh battery was put into the alarm and it simply did not work. Upon calling for a replacement my father was informed that electronic items are "no longer covered under the lifetime warranty." You'll notice the phrasing "no longer covered", being applied to an item that was sold when such a warranty was applied to this item. There was NO effort made by the Dillon rep. to determine if this item had been sold under the lifetime warranty. My father ended up throwing the item away. The same EXACT thing happened when the switch on his case cleaning tumbler went out. No effort was made to determine when the item was sold. The rep simply stated that Dillon "no longer covers electronic items under the "No BS Lifetime Warranty" and that was it. My father wound up bypassing the switch himself to get it to work.

There is an obvious policy at Dillon to deny warranty to any electronic item no matter when it was sold. Only when a stink is made, or a certain person is contacted (I cannot remember his name but it has been posted on this forum previously) does Dillon honor it's warranty. What my father experienced in trying to get Dillon to honor its warranty was 100% BS and not the "No BS Lifetime Warranty" that he was promised. In my opinion Dillon should institute a policy of being PRO-active in determining when the item was sold so that people would get the warranty service that they were promised.

Again, thank you for your response.

[Recluse]

There is a good rule of customer truisms that I share with all of our clients, and it goes like this:


97 out of 100 of your customers are golden. They are the ones you forecast your budgets for, invite to focus groups for R&D and trial, and for whom you'll move mountains to keep their business.

The other 3 out of that 100 will never be happy. They'll always want more, demand more, bad-mouth you, complain to their (like-minded) friends and associates and even when you finally bend to their demands, will remark to their friends, "They took care of it, BUT. . ."

To stay profitable and sane, whenever you identify one of those three-percenters, let it be known that you do not want, nor need their business. In doing so, you'll give yourself more time and resources to better take care of the 97 percent who truly appreciate you and who will be loyal and understanding customers.

In the book, Still Nuts After 25 Years, Southwest Airlines (former) CEO Herb Kelleher relates to a correspondence he had with a passenger with which he formally barred from ever flying with SWA again. She was so high-maintenance and impossible to satisfy (SWA would resolve one problem, only to have her develop another one) that it was affecting morale with those who had to constantly deal with her.

Herb wrote her a firm letter stating SWA would no longer honor her business because put simply, she would never be satisfied. Southwest Airlines, by the way, is pretty much the "Dillon Precision" of the airlines in terms of how far they'll go to make and/or keep their passengers and customers happy.

The Container Store is renowned for their other-world customer service as well as being a perennial Top Five company to work for in terms of employee loyalty and satisfaction. Yet, they maintain a "go pound sand" list of customers whose incessant returns and complaints are not only not profitable, but detrimental to the morale of the individual store's workforce that has to deal with the constant PITA customer.

Such policies has not affected The Container Store or Southwest Airlines' profitability one iota. In fact, just the opposite--more quality time spent taking care of loyal, patient, understanding customers allows for stronger loyalty and far more profitable organic growth.

There is absolutely zero reason why Dillon--or anyone else--should cover blatant neglect or abuse in their warranties. Likewise, it is absolutely one-hundred percent unreasonable to expect that electrical devices will last forever and if they don't, the company will replace them free of charge. Craftsman's tool warrant is on non-electric tools, same as Snap-Ons.

Quite frankly, I have no problem with any reloading manufacturer's warranty and customer service. Many years ago, some poor guy at Dillon spent hours on the phone with me helping me adjust my brand new 550. Several years ago, I had Steve Hornady himself calling me about a collet bullet puller that I broke the handle on and couldn't figure out why--until we discovered that it was missing a crucial part.

While I'm not happy with Lee's apparent lack of quality control, I have yet to ever have a negative customer service experience in which they refused to honor a warranty.

As far as someone calling about two cops and a postman joking about bribes and whatnot, that could've happened at the local McDonalds or dry-cleaners or Midas muffler shop just as easily as it did the Dillon showroom. That has zero--repeat, ZERO--reflection upon Dillon's quality or their customer service as it relates to their products and equipment.

Anytime we've seen or heard of an issue, Dillon has stepped in here to explain things or to try and make things right. Hornady did the same thing with my bullet puller.

Why is it that we expect and demand 100% perfection and unreasonable expectations out of certain companies, but we don't expect that same 100% out of ourselves?

:coffee:

[L1A1Rocker]

it is absolutely one-hundred percent unreasonable to expect that electrical devices will last forever and if they don't, the company will replace them free of charge.

What is odd is that is exactly what Dillon did. That is why people spent about 20% more with the Dillon product than for the exact same item from a competitor. It was Dillon that sold the item with the "No BS Lifetme Warranty" it was not forced upon them, they wanted to set themselves apart from the competition and did so. I understand that they no longer have that same warranty on their electronic items, what I don't understand is the apparent difference in what the Dillon rep posted here and what the police appears to be from the phone takers.

I was just recalling a few hours ago while out cleaning up my late fathers shop. I was visiting while on vacation and had chance to use his balance scale. I complained about it not having any dampening. After explaining to my father about the new magnetically dampened scales he said that he wanted one. Great! Lets call Dillon. Not hardly was his reply. See, in the 10 years he had had Dillon equipment he had called them twice for a warranty issue. Both times he was told that their warranty had changed AFTER the sale. He called Midway and bought a scale made by RCBS instead. But I'm sure such things don't affect Dillons' bottom line so I'm sure they don't care.

"Why is it that we expect and demand 100% perfection and unreasonable expectations out of certain companies, but we don't expect that same 100% out of ourselves?"

I'm not sure I understand your point on with that question. I'll I want is for Dillon to honor their warranty that they offered and was paid for. It's really that simple.

[azrednek]

As far as someone calling about two cops and a postman joking about bribes and whatnot, that could've happened at the local McDonalds or dry-cleaners or Midas muffler shop just as easily as it did the Dillon showroom. That has zero--repeat, ZERO--reflection upon Dillon's quality or their customer service as it relates to their products and equipment.

Why is it that we expect and demand 100% perfection and unreasonable expectations out of certain companies, but we don't expect that same 100% out of ourselves?


:coffee:

I'm in 100% agreement with what you're saying. As I noted in a previous post and in my original post. I don't now or have I ever had a problem with Dillon's equipment. I do have a Dillon Square Deal in 45ACP. My gripes originated from poor emplyee performance and the lack of a response from my letter to Mr Dillon. I don't know for sure but highly suspect my letter never made it to Mr Dillon's desk. Another possibility, Mr Dillon may have passed the resposibility to another employee to follow up that failed to do so.

I never have expected 100% from anybody, Dillon especially but I simply made the choice as a consumer to upgrade my loading equipment from another manufacture and not spend it with Dillon. I earned the money and have the option to spend it where I want.

During the portion of my working career supervising other employees. I quickly learned that many employees go above and beyond 100% but have off days. The same 5% of the workforce that create over 90% of the problems and complaints unfortunately reflect upon the entire company and often send $$'s to the competition.

I never expected to ruffle so many feathers expressing my dissatisfaction and negative experience with two of Dillon's employees. I certainly didn't deserve to have my original post censored by the moderator because he disagreed or for some other unknown motive. Had I known I would have angered anybody I would have kept my opinion to myself.

I come here to Cast Boolits for enjoyment and to pick the brains of experienced re-loaders and casters when a problem arrives. In the future I will no longer share my dissatisfaction with anybody or anything. Angering a few other board members was never my intention. Having my opinion challenged is not only expected but welcome, especially if it is done without being personally insulted in a gentlemanly manner. Being censored and more or less being ordered by the moderator to start my own thread to express my opinion because it disagreed with his, was way overboard.

[Kevin Rohrer]

Being censored and more or less being ordered by the moderator to start my own thread to express my opinion because it disagreed with his, was way overboard.

I think you are taking this the wrong way. To ask that you start a new thread is wholly reasonable. We have had some interesting discussion here and no one acted like an ***, even those whose view differed from your and mine.

I can think of several other reloading sites I frequent who would not have allowed this conversation to take place or would have closed it. The fact that everyone here acted so maturely is a an indicator that discussions like this should continue. It is also nice that a couple Dillon reps showed up to comment.

As for the continuing discussion about the no BS warranty not extending to electronic components, I find this also reasonable and necessary to maintain a viable business model.

Lastly, although I can't speak for Mike Dillon, he may not have read your letter and that's why you never got a reply to it. I once wrote a letter to him complaining about a Blue Press article. Not only did parts of my letter appear in a subsequent edition, Mr. Dillon called me and we talked for 45-minutes about my complaint.

Dillon is not perfect, but they enjoy a reputation for quality and service not shared by most other companies.

[Recluse]

No anger here, no feathers ruffled--no reason to be as I don't have a single piece of blue equipment on my bench at the moment. The 550 I had is being enjoyed by a DAV who was in the first wave sent to Afghanistan in 2002.

But, I wrote what I did to point out a basic business acumen which is that you cannot please all of the people all of the time and it is fruitless to enact policies and CSR programs specifically for that purpose.

Why?

Because it is not profitable. And without profits, you have no business.

Within that acumen, you are going to lose a few customers; on the flip-side, you might end up being one of those customers. I know I have because I've run into a few businesses in which I simply cannot be satisfied.

Just the way it is.

:coffee:

[Lloyd Smale]

Sorry but i never saw where dillon charged 20 percent more for the same exact product. Not if quality of both products were the same.
What is odd is that is exactly what Dillon did. That is why people spent about 20% more with the Dillon product than for the exact same item from a competitor. It was Dillon that sold the item with the "No BS Lifetme Warranty" it was not forced upon them, they wanted to set themselves apart from the competition and did so. I understand that they no longer have that same warranty on their electronic items, what I don't understand is the apparent difference in what the Dillon rep posted here and what the police appears to be from the phone takers.

I was just recalling a few hours ago while out cleaning up my late fathers shop. I was visiting while on vacation and had chance to use his balance scale. I complained about it not having any dampening. After explaining to my father about the new magnetically dampened scales he said that he wanted one. Great! Lets call Dillon. Not hardly was his reply. See, in the 10 years he had had Dillon equipment he had called them twice for a warranty issue. Both times he was told that their warranty had changed AFTER the sale. He called Midway and bought a scale made by RCBS instead. But I'm sure such things don't affect Dillons' bottom line so I'm sure they don't care.

"Why is it that we expect and demand 100% perfection and unreasonable expectations out of certain companies, but we don't expect that same 100% out of ourselves?"

I'm not sure I understand your point on with that question. I'll I want is for Dillon to honor their warranty that they offered and was paid for. It's really that simple.

[DukeInFlorida]

I have had about five times now, where I either sent something back to Dillon for service, or bought some new thing from them outrightly. The first was an older model 500 tumbler that I just plain wore out from over use. I had bought it new, and it lasted for a long time, running hundreds and hundreds of hours over years. I hated to part with it. I tried to find an aftermarket motor for it (the original bushing was worn, and the commutator was stuck against the coil). I had read somewhere that Dillon would do an upgrade on it, for a slight fee. They installed a 750 motor, springs, and a new wire cord set for cheap money, paid for return postage, for much less than I could have bought a new one. I was so impressed that immediately bought (directly from them) one of the CV2001 tumblers to take on the biggest duties. Both machines continue to run wonderfully.

I purchased a slightly used RL550b machine a few years ago, and it obviously needed some tweaking. I sent that back, costing me ONLY the postage to get it there. They replaced missing parts, and worn parts, and made all adjustments, so that the machine has served me well in all of the subsequent years. They did not make any money on that one.

I traded a reloading class for another RL550b, which I sent in for fixing. It was missing a ton of parts, and even had a solidly rusted Gen 1 set of 9mm dies. I was honest with them when I sent it in, and they treated me more than fairly. For the cost of postage, and a slight fee, they sent me back a virtually NEW machine, including a brand new powder dispensor, a new set of 9mm dies, and the machine complete in every way, and running perfectly. AGain, they stood by their warranty (yes, they charged me a fee... but the list of items that they replaced, which was included in the packing paperwork FAR EXCEEDED the fee that they charged me.)

My most recent experience was also good. I was looking for information on the size of the openings for their CM-500 case media seperator. I wanted to be sure that the .22 LR brass I was processing would stay inside the basket. The fellow I called put the phone down on the desk, walked out to the warehouse, measured the openings with a tape measure, made me happy, and accepted my order right then and there. I don;t know of any other company who would have taken that time to make me happy.

I'll buy Dillon every time I can. And, I know, with personal experience and confidence, that they will stand behind my purchases. I have been honest and fair (I have never tried to get anything for FREE from them) with my communications with them. They have always taken care of me, and made things right.

I am delighted with the service.

[No_1]

Being censored and more or less being ordered by the moderator to start my own thread to express my opinion because it disagreed with his, was way overboard..

Not exactly the way it went down. I did remove your post from my thread (http://www.gunloads.com/castboolits/showthread.php?t=168424) because it obviously was not about Dillion Precision product customer service but instead was about some misunderstanding between you, 2 cops and an EMPLOYEE of Dillon Precision. I sent you a nice PM explaining my reasoning and suggested you start your own thread:

My thread was intended to show the good service I recieved so I removed your post from my thread. If you wish to start another thread stating your dissatisfaction with Dillon Precision then have at it.

Robert

You repsonded by PM with:

You'd make a good Democrat with your censorship and control of opposing opinions.
I did reinstate all post you placed on my thread once you started this thread in an attempt to keep the records straight which I am glad I did seeing how you twist the facts.

[UNIQUEDOT]

I did remove your post from my thread because it obviously was not about Dillion Precision product customer service but instead was about some misunderstanding between you, 2 cops and an EMPLOYEE of Dillon Precision.

First right off the bat I'd like to state that i do not agree that Dillon is responsible for what the lady did, but if you own a company and have employees those employees represent you and your company. He has every right to complain about customer service if he so desires as he and those officers were customers and because of an idiot representative from Dillon they received customer service in a worst way. The incident is most likely the reason the lady is no longer an employee of Dillon.

[6bg6ga]

I assume this thread is about "Dillon Service" so I will tell about yesterdays call to them. I opened up a 9mm conversion kit for my 650XL. I started to change it over from the 45acp config in which it was purchased to the 9mm. I loostened the set screw for the step bolt that holds the shell plate to remove it no problem. I converted the shell feed to the 9mm and the primmer feed to small primer. Whats left? Ok, put the shell plate down on the 650 and put the step bolt thru the hole in the shell plate and into the press. Simply put the bolt will not physically go thru the hole in the shell plate as its about .003 too small a hole.

Getting to the call....called them and told them what I had for a press and the guy asks me a second time and I repeat that I have a 650XL. I tell him I have removed the original shell plate and the step bolt from the machine and tell him the step bolt will not go thru the hole in the conversion shell plate 9mm plate. He asks me if I loostened the set screw holding the step bolt in the machine. Look, its already out of the machine and he responds with the ball probably fell in the step bolt hole. Finally I respond with SIR, I am away from the press. I have the shell plate in front of me along with the step bolt that is supposed to go thru the center of the shell plate and it physicallt will not go thru the damn hole because the hole is too small. I have also garfed up the step bolt in the process. He responds with I've never heard of this. I will send you a new shell plate #5 and I said you better send me a new step bolt also he said ok. He is sending me a return ticket for the #5 shell plate and the bolt.

Now, could I not have made this any clearer? The shell plate is off the machine. The shell plate is undersize so the retaining step bolt will not fit thru its hole. Where do they get some of these guys?

[mold maker]

You'd be surprised at the folks he has to deal with. He also may be dealing with several folks at a time through other media.
I agree that, attention to your conversation would have saved your frayed nerves.
Glad to hear that the NO BS warranty, was fulfilled.

[jmorris]

Could have started a new thread but sounds like a phone call was all it took to get new parts on the way.

If he had never heard of the problem, I can understand the extra questions. If some one called you up and told you it was raining chickens outside you would likely have follow up questions.

It also helps to use proper names or even better the actual part number. They don't always know what your talking about. Google "step bolt" and take a look at the image that comes up, then google "shoulder bolt".

Dillon calls it a Shellplate bolt #13418.

[troyboy]

Would have just made the hole bigger myself. Looks like cs did you as expected.

[257]

I have lost and or broken things on my presses over the years when I called Dillon I was treated great had the parts I needed in 2 to 4 days and was never charged for parts or postage even when I said it was my fault that I needed them

[6bg6ga]

Would have just made the hole bigger myself. Looks like cs did you as expected.

Its like this... I paid $77 for the conversion kit. I expect things to work. I didn't want to enlarge the hole in the shell plate. Its about quality control and their need to maintain it and their need to know if there is a problem out there with a specific item in this case the number 5 shell plate. Could it possibly be something in their production process? Yes, and that is why I contacted them.

jmorris is correct and I thank him for bringing this forward. I should have used the correct name for the shellplate bolt. Unfortunately I was seeing red at the time because I had rendered it the shellplate bolt useless because now it was scratched and couldn't be used for any setup and I was setting there with a useless 650XL press.

Now, for another question.... I just opened up a 40/10mm conversion box and found the following inside it and wonder if the correct shell dropping components are in the box.114631 There are two red shell dropping components as well as a purple one. Am I missing the small purple one?

[6bg6ga]

To be correct here as the picture show the conversion kit had 2) case feed adapters in it and one casefeed arm bushing. Does the 40cal / 10mm have a purple case feed arm busing along with the purple case feed adapter? If so I need to call Dillon again to see if they can send me the missing case feed adapter.

[6bg6ga]

I don't know if you can see the scratches in the bolt or not but its unusable.


114632

[jmorris]

I think you were right in not modifying the part and I understand being mad too.

The case feed arm bushing drops into the case feed arm, red indicates it is the medium pistol bushing. (p52 of the manual).

The case feed adapters are red for 10mm and purple for 40s&w (P46 of the manual).

If you don't have a copy you can down load one here.

http://dillonhelp.com/Dillon%20Manual%20PDFs/XL650v6p1.pdf

The bushing is the same because it only fits the diameter of the case the adapters are different heights (10mm/40) to keep cases from flipping around while sliding out of the colum of cases into the shell plate.

[EDG]

I will relate an old story that I tell about Dillon. I think sometime in the late 80s they introduced the D'Terminator electronic scale. One of my shooting buddies who was a computer guy was one of the first adopter types. He was usually the one to buy a new gadget when they were still unproven and expensive. He bought a new D'Terminator in the early to mid 90s and had some problem with it. He brought it by one day when he was going to load some ammo. We both messed with it a long time but it would always drift a grain or two. After weighing 4 or 5 loads we would check it and find it needed to be re-calibrated. He gave up on the scale and left, leaving it with me to mess with. A few months went by and I messed with it again with the same results and I called Dillon. A very frank and honest guy answered and said that unfortunately that was the state of the art for those scales at that time because the low priced load cells were not that good. He said send it in and they would see what they could do. Not eager to waste the cost of mailing the scale for another that did not work I carefully put it back in its original package and put it in the top of the closet where it remained for the next 8 years. Technology goes from 316S computers to 486 then the Pentium. Near Christmas time one winter, I called again and again the guy at Dillon said send it back. I thought about it a while and laziness prevailed so it went back into the closet for another 3 years. Then I noticed in the Dillon ads in the gun magazines that they were introducing a new D'Terminator. I was concerned that the Dillon warranty might not be honored because it was a totally different product. The old D'Terminator had a 1200 grain capacity and the case with the turned up front with the very large angled display. The new model had a 900 grain capacity and a smaller display. The old model continued to be listed in ads so I called Dillon again and again they said send it in. A few weeks later a new scale arrived in the mail. At first I was not happy because it was the lower priced 900 grain model. I put batteries in it and put it through its paces. WOW - It was amazing. Very sensitive and no drift. I immediately weighed a bunch of bullets and wrote the weight of each on it with a marker.
Then they were reweighed in different sequences. The new model worked well beyond my expectations so I was happy.
I sent my buddy an email about the good news for his scale. He said to keep it that he had bought another brand since that he was happy with.

To summarize
Dillon offered an early model scale that really was an immature product but Dillon offered to stand behind it 3 times.
Dillon sent a later model as a free replacement 11 years later. It works perfect.
I was not the original purchaser of the scale, I was only acting in behalf of my friend who gave up on it. Dillon still honored the warranty. I was not a Dillon customer at that time and I am still not a Dillon customer. I have never bought a single thing from Dillon. Dillon's niche serves mostly hand gunners with the semi- progressive and progressive machines. I do not load much for hand guns so I do not really have much use for Dillon's machines but I do admire their warranty service.

[6bg6ga]

Update...

Received the new #5 shell plate and the shell plate bolt PN13418 and the postage paid return envelope.

Installed them made a few tweeks and I am now cranking out 9mm ammo.

[r1kk1]

I have the 1200 gr version of the scale and no problems. If it dies, I will look for a replacement with around the same capacity. I need to get a hold of buckshot to make me a funnel for 500 Linebaugh. Funny thing is Dillon said to use the 50ae funnel. The don't have one for 50 Alaskan, 50-70, etc.

take care

r1kk1

[joelsteinbach]

3 Dillon Presses, and 16 years later, I have never, never, gotten any poor service, advice or information from any of the telephone staff, My parts have always arrived in a timely manner and usually at no charge. KUDOS to Dillon and their great company.

[9w1911]

No complaint here. You could probably sweet talk a rep into a free press if you were polite enough.

[ROGER4314]

I've had wonderful service from Dillon since about 1980 when I bought a pair of RL 450 presses. Later came another RL 450, and one SD press. I sold those and then acquired one RL450 and one RL550. The bushings in the RL450 seized up so I ordered a 550 frame and converted it over completely to all of the new 550 primer, powder and loaded round ejection features. Dillon GAVE me the repair parts and I purchased the upgrade parts. Believe me, in all of that, I had plenty of dealings with Dillon CS folks!

Some CS issues were settled better than others but NONE of the problems were terrible. All things considered, every problem was solved and I can truthfully say that nothing on the RL550B press is a mystery to me. I learned a lot!

They asked me to return the seized up press bushings and arm but were not willing to pay the shipping. I'm a real easy guy to understand. If you want the parts back, then YOU pay to ship them. I still have them.

To the OP.........
I worked in the rat race for decades and finally retired. I let the stresses go and have the blood pressure of a teenager! That's down from taking Benecar for BP in high stress employment! The higher number on my BP was 190+. Now, it's 112-120 and I take NO medication!

Life is too xamned short to stew over it. Either decide to DO something about the problem or let it go! That's a decision that only you can make. If it's bad enough to make an attack in response, then do that. If it's not....let it go and go on with life.

Flash

[Duckiller]

Have a 550 that doesn't work right. Won't feed primers properly. Have to pull primer feed bar all the way back by hand. Talked to someone at Dillion when I got the press . Was told " buy our video". haven't talked to them about adjustment of primer bar. RCBS is lots nicer. Do we how have thread police or can the original poster control what is posted to "his" thread?

[azrednek]

Do we how have thread police or can the original poster control what is posted to "his" thread?

Only the moderators can remove posts they don't like. As in my case I didn't post a rosy picture of Dillon so the moderator that didn't like what I said pulled it out, then put it back in the original thread after this thread gathered more attention than his.

[Alvarez Kelly]

You guys crack me up. I'll trade you a Hollywood Senior for any reasonably complete but obviously poorly functioning Dillon 550 you might have.

PM me.

[azrednek]

I really wish this thread would die!! In all honesty I started it after having my post removed then reinstated by an arrogant moderator wanting to control the gist of a thread he started. It was never my intention to start a flame Dillon thread. I did however want to share my unpleasant experience with two Dillon employees in a thread regarding Dillon's service. I never intended to knock Dillon's equipment. I have a Dillon Square Deal set up for 45 ACP I've had for well over 25 years and it still works just fine. Lets let this thread die, please

[Plastikosmd]

Not exactly the way it went down. I did remove your post from my thread (http://www.gunloads.com/castboolits/showthread.php?t=168424) because it obviously was not about Dillion Precision product customer service but instead was about some misunderstanding between you, 2 cops and an EMPLOYEE of Dillon Precision. I sent you a nice PM explaining my reasoning and suggested you start your own thread:


You repsonded by PM with:

I did reinstate all post you placed on my thread once you started this thread in an attempt to keep the records straight which I am glad I did seeing how you twist the facts.








Wow!
:confused:

As far as Dillon, I just knocked my trimmer off the bench and broke the electrical connection thing at top. Quick call to Dillon, fixed free of charge.

This is maybe the 3 rd thing they have fixed for me, all issues caused by me.

Up to 3 of their machines (550x2 and big 50 reloader) would buy another in a heartbeat

[ljnowell]

OP it doesn't matter what your issue is, the Dillonophiles will now attack everything you say.

Such as you had no right to joke around with those cops. Possibly how dare you be upset that the customer service rep was a jerk, it's all your fault. After all, we all know that the Dillon company was created by god himself.

[6bg6ga]

OP it doesn't matter what your issue is, the Dillonophiles will now attack everything you say.

Such as you had no right to joke around with those cops. Possibly how dare you be upset that the customer service rep was a jerk, it's all your fault. After all, we all know that the Dillon company was created by god himself.

With 3 posts under your belt your post above seems a bit arrogant. Why don't you confine your comments to your Dillon experience like I did and others have done.

[ljnowell]

With 3 posts under your belt your post above seems a bit arrogant. Why don't you confine your comments to your Dillon experience like I did and others have done.

I have plenty of Dillon experience. I have loaded on three different models of Dillon presses. They are fine machines, but there are others out there that work just fine too. The arrogance comes from the Dillon camp anytime someone mentions anything but a Dillon press.

As far as post count goes, it's pretty sad when your best argument, your very first sentence, is my post count. Kinda proves that you cannot refute what I said.

[joelsteinbach]

On the phone with Dillon this AM, the parts will be going out to me at no charge, the tech asked me if I feel that I could change them out myself , or would I like to return the press to them for N/C fix. I purchase my first Dillon in 1998, its a Square Deal B, I have gotten replacement parts from them in the past, every call that I have made to them in the past 16 years has always been answered with great professionalism. The best company that I have ever dealt with in the reloading equipment industry.

[Alvarez Kelly]

I have plenty of Dillon experience. I have loaded on three different models of Dillon presses. They are fine machines, but there are others out there that work just fine too. The arrogance comes from the Dillon camp anytime someone mentions anything but a Dillon press.

As far as post count goes, it's pretty sad when your best argument, your very first sentence, is my post count. Kinda proves that you cannot refute what I said.


You added nothing but a snide comment to the discussion. Did you read the thread? You might want to go back and read post #59.

[EddieNFL]

With 3 posts under your belt your post above seems a bit arrogant. Why don't you confine your comments to your Dillon experience like I did and others have done.

Freud had a theory.